Twistedsparkle Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 ty for all the amazing discussions! edited original post: added valkyr and some thoughts how to improve her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciole77 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Chaemyerelis said: I love current saryn. She levels my weapons and frames for me without making me work for it. cheat frame. To me need to be nerfed to the gound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthIronclad Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I do have ideas for some changes to mirage to make her more versitle, did a thread on that not too long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)SupremeMorph Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Luciole77 said: cheat frame. To me need to be nerfed to the gound! Honestly, Saryn's spores are the only issue with her kit imo, the rest is fairly well balanced. Infinite duration, scaling damage, no LoS checks... actually, there's your (admittedly very low effort) fix right there, just add an LoS requirement to spores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexsing Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said: Nyx, entire kit. Well lets not go completely crazy here. Her 1 is not horrible. Her 2 is acceptable with the Augment. However the Augment should be already in her 2 as it is. Debuffs are great. But it needs love. Her 3 - please let it be. I like this power. Although I think it should do extra damage to enemies hit by enemies who are affected by it. Her 4 is my biggest beef. You know. What this should do. It should grab environmental objectd like barels and things and hurl them down from the sky in a giant radius (Similar to Embers new ability) if there are no barrels or things then maybe it could just be a blast of pure telekinetic force. Like a TK bomb. But I do like the idea of slamming debris or enviromental pieces into the ground Or a Psychic scream. A stunning and damaging radial blast that mangles peoples minds and does more damage to those affected by her 2 and her 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsparkle Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) added nekros to original post aswell as some thoughts :)) Edited October 18, 2019 by Twistedsparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librus_107 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Surprised I haven't seen Frost in here. One of my favorites to use, but half of his kit is basically worthless in terms of how things operate these days. His passive is like the vestigial forelimbs of a dinosaur, with an utterly depressing ten percent chance to freeze anyone who attacks at melee range. He's supposed to be a defensive Frame, keeping foes at bay, so... this ability sees even less use. I'm not sure what could take its place, perhaps some sort of UI-meter mechanic related to keeping himself cold and armored by ability use, or generally something involving how the infrastructure of this game has changed since his very early conception. It's said lore-wise his abilities work by freezing water vapor in the air around him, so maybe something to do with an area surrounding him in a set radius...? Enemies get a tiny ice proc. or slow down or something...? Oooh, or maybe coating his melee weapons with a layer of ice that forms and shatters again and again... His 1 is... well, freezing a single target in front of you seems out of place for his wide, chilly attacks elsewhere. Another thing I think could be removed and replaced with a completely new thing, perhaps a buff or some other way to enhance his powers, like lowering the temperature in an area to slow the advance of enemies or boost cold damage in a wide area. His 2 is okay-ish, but really has such little impact. It's more of an attack that enemies should use (and they do), than something a player does in a PvE game. The idea of a wave of ice sounds cool, but it just looks and feels so dull compared to the reworks we're seeing, what with Ember and her volcanoes or Vauban and his freakin' orbital drop lasers. Once again, something to do with AoE or Defending an area, which is what we all know and love Frost for doing. Maybe something that could help him between defending objectives, one attack that has use when pushing the frontline a little? His 3 is perfect, it's the reason why Frost is Frost and why Frost is loved. Snowglobe ain't broken and doesn't need fixing (aside from that very pretty visual rework that made it an actual globe of ice and not plastic wrap like before). But, with all the UI additions being added for each frame, I'd (and others would too) appreciate a UI element displaying the Health of the globe, and maybe even how many are placed. The percentage gauge on the ability select is pretty much borked completely nowadays and just flashes random numbers I can't make heads or tails of. And his 4 is pretty alright too, fitting into his niche of uses. The right augments make it really nice to use, cleaning out hordes of foes when the Snow Globe is taking too much of a pounding. Maybe a visual rework is all it needs, or maybe a special proc magic like Ember's armor melt for the rare enemies that don't get shattered apart after he freezes everything. "Brittle" would be a cool thing to see, making armor weaker as it's, well, frozen and stiff. And of course, we'd all love to see more enemies getting frozen through and shattered like sad little popsicles. Frost seems to fit a niche of defensive and area control, ensuring that enemies around an objective can't get to it, or are dealt with when they try to overwhelm with numbers. His passive, 1 and 2 don't really work for that, or even for a "mode switch" where Frost needs to push back the enemy and advance with a more direct assault. He's a pretty old Frame, and one of my favorites despite these flaws. But the UI needing a serious update for him, and half of his kit being basically unused and untouched, it feels a little sad that the one frame that really fits my playstyle is only 50% of what he could really be. C'mon, D.E.! Give him his rework and the UI he so desperately needs, and I won't ever gripe about how sad his Prime version looks ever again! His rival and counterpart Ember got a flashy rework, the balance of hot and cold needs to be maintained...! This old frame really needs some love. (As an afterthought: maybe abilities that would be useful for the upcoming elements of environment? Keeping enemies away from key rooms in a Railjack via his kit would be pretty neat, and, c'mon, it'd be so cool to see him be able to put out onboard fires just by casting abilities at them. But that's just be going on, since I'm already dreaming here. And as long as I'm dreaming, if Gauss can walk on water with his speed, t'would be cool to see frost able to make a little glacier on bodies of water and pathways as he sprints across. Or just cast an ability on the water to make a little ice raft and do some fishing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciole77 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, Librus_MT said: Surprised I haven't seen Frost in here. One of my favorites to use, but half of his kit is basically worthless in terms of how things operate these days. His passive is like the vestigial forelimbs of a dinosaur, with an utterly depressing ten percent chance to freeze anyone who attacks at melee range. He's supposed to be a defensive Frame, keeping foes at bay, so... this ability sees even less use. I'm not sure what could take its place, perhaps some sort of UI-meter mechanic related to keeping himself cold and armored by ability use, or generally something involving how the infrastructure of this game has changed since his very early conception. It's said lore-wise his abilities work by freezing water vapor in the air around him, so maybe something to do with an area surrounding him in a set radius...? Enemies get a tiny ice proc. or slow down or something...? Oooh, or maybe coating his melee weapons with a layer of ice that forms and shatters again and again... His 1 is... well, freezing a single target in front of you seems out of place for his wide, chilly attacks elsewhere. Another thing I think could be removed and replaced with a completely new thing, perhaps a buff or some other way to enhance his powers, like lowering the temperature in an area to slow the advance of enemies or boost cold damage in a wide area. His 2 is okay-ish, but really has such little impact. It's more of an attack that enemies should use (and they do), than something a player does in a PvE game. The idea of a wave of ice sounds cool, but it just looks and feels so dull compared to the reworks we're seeing, what with Ember and her volcanoes or Vauban and his freakin' orbital drop lasers. Once again, something to do with AoE or Defending an area, which is what we all know and love Frost for doing. Maybe something that could help him between defending objectives, one attack that has use when pushing the frontline a little? His 3 is perfect, it's the reason why Frost is Frost and why Frost is loved. Snowglobe ain't broken and doesn't need fixing (aside from that very pretty visual rework that made it an actual globe of ice and not plastic wrap like before). But, with all the UI additions being added for each frame, I'd (and others would too) appreciate a UI element displaying the Health of the globe, and maybe even how many are placed. The percentage gauge on the ability select is pretty much borked completely nowadays and just flashes random numbers I can't make heads or tails of. And his 4 is pretty alright too, fitting into his niche of uses. The right augments make it really nice to use, cleaning out hordes of foes when the Snow Globe is taking too much of a pounding. Maybe a visual rework is all it needs, or maybe a special proc magic like Ember's armor melt for the rare enemies that don't get shattered apart after he freezes everything. "Brittle" would be a cool thing to see, making armor weaker as it's, well, frozen and stiff. And of course, we'd all love to see more enemies getting frozen through and shattered like sad little popsicles. Frost seems to fit a niche of defensive and area control, ensuring that enemies around an objective can't get to it, or are dealt with when they try to overwhelm with numbers. His passive, 1 and 2 don't really work for that, or even for a "mode switch" where Frost needs to push back the enemy and advance with a more direct assault. He's a pretty old Frame, and one of my favorites despite these flaws. But the UI needing a serious update for him, and half of his kit being basically unused and untouched, it feels a little sad that the one frame that really fits my playstyle is only 50% of what he could really be. C'mon, D.E.! Give him his rework and the UI he so desperately needs, and I won't ever gripe about how sad his Prime version looks ever again! His rival and counterpart Ember got a flashy rework, the balance of hot and cold needs to be maintained...! This old frame really needs some love. (As an afterthought: maybe abilities that would be useful for the upcoming elements of environment? Keeping enemies away from key rooms in a Railjack via his kit would be pretty neat, and, c'mon, it'd be so cool to see him be able to put out onboard fires just by casting abilities at them. But that's just be going on, since I'm already dreaming here. And as long as I'm dreaming, if Gauss can walk on water with his speed, t'would be cool to see frost able to make a little glacier on bodies of water and pathways as he sprints across. Or just cast an ability on the water to make a little ice raft and do some fishing.) I dont see problems with frost...its a very solid defensive/ofensive warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraMex Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Strange that there are no mentions of Revenant, a Frankenstein frame that keep falling apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 I would like to see a Loki rework. Pretty much anything in his kit other frames can do way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerikuu Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Loki, Valkyr, Trinity, Banshee and Inaros are in most need of a rework imo, in that order. Loki was great back in the day when CC synergy was a thing. Now he's mainly used for his hushed invisibility/spin-to-win and that's it. Valkyr is from the days where there was no parkour. She's a one-trick pony, though even then other frames do it far better without being locked into their 4th. Trinity is just a heal/buff bot. That's it. Boring. Was more useful back in the day when such things were needed. Now there are other frames that do it better that also have damage or CC, and energy issues are less of a problem now if you use Zenurik Focus or arcanes. Besides eidolons she is a rarity in groups now days. Banshee's main issue for me is her lack of survivability. Sonic Boom augment should just be part of the base skill. Sonar is fine. Silence should come with an evasion buff. Sound Quake damage should be amplified if enemies are under the effect of Sonar. Inaros is mainly used for the high health pool and armor for most people. The tankiness basically. Personally I've always found his passive revive ability completely useless because enemies were either never close enough for it to activate, or there were nowhere near enough enemies for it to ever work as intended. Needs a complete overhaul in that department. His pocket sand is fine, though that may change depending on how the Parazon works (covert lethality removal etc.) Devour doesn't scale/ramp up well. The healing aspect of it is pointless since his 1 and done does it faster, or just use operator arcanes. Sandstorm doesn't scale well either, and the augment for it should just be part of the base ability imo. 4th is fine, though I feel the swarm could do with a better spread range. 40 minutes ago, UltraMex said: Strange that there are no mentions of Revenant, a Frankenstein frame that keep falling apart. Revenant is an odd one, but has far more synergy with his abilities than the above lot. He's also near unkillable with the right build. Edited October 19, 2019 by Numerikuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraMex Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Numerikuu said: Loki, Valkyr, Trinity, and Inaros are in most need of a rework imo, in that order. Revenant is an odd one, but has far more synergy with his abilities than the above lot. He's also near unkillable with the right build. I wish they give him ability to adapt to dmg type (i know such mod exist but free mod space is a good thing) and shapeshifting like an actual Sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerikuu Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, UltraMex said: I wish they give him ability to adapt to dmg type (i know such mod exist but free mod space is a good thing) and shapeshifting like an actual Sentient. No point when his Mesmer Skin nullifies almost all damage bar environmental anyway, but I get you. They probably didn't do this due to it making the skill just a little bit OP otherwise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroraSonicBoom Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Loki and Banshee didn't get any sort of changes beyond minor QoL stuff years ago, and they keep getting sidelined because of either not having a high enough player number for DE to care, or a single gimmick that leaves keeps the frame just played enough to not get into their focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_ZEEK Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 22 hours ago, (XB1)Lucas Jameson said: I want to say mag, because I do love her, she holds a special place in my heart as my first and anything to make her better would be amazing, particularly in the survivability department, but... Beyond updating pull with the hold-to-cast shown in the cinematic trailer and changing magnetize so you can dispel it at will (and then update the augment that does that to reliably disarm enemies as opposed to the 50% chance that feels like 30%) I can't really think of much to change about her. Her 4 could certainly use improving, but I'm stumped as to ideas, and her 3 is fairly balanced, all things considered If you consider reworking mag.. then you probably dont know how to play Mag.. she's one of the strongest frames in game.. she just has a bad rep.. please keep Mag as is. Volt, and whisp should have the speed buffs being optional for teammates. thats basically the most annoying thing in game.. getting buffs from team member that muck up your playstyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Mag's quite awesome once you get going with her so not sure about that, apart from just more buffs for the fun of it. Unfortunately, I'd say Nyx needs some addressing. Her chaos is nice but everything else is a bit lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--DSP--Jetstream Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 zephyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibmobello Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Inaros needs an urgent rework. His 1,2,3 and 4 are totally useless. 1)it's used for a bland cc but that's all. 2 its totally useless.You use the arcanes to regenerate health faster and better and on high level you can't even transform an enemy is a zombie. 3) never used it, it's too energy hungry, with a stupid range and you can just use maiming strike. 4) It's only used with the augmented mod to avoid status effects and gain few armor, the rest is almost useless. Edited October 19, 2019 by bibmobello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librus_107 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 21 hours ago, Luciole77 said: I dont see problems with frost...its a very solid defensive/ofensive warframe. It's not that, it's more that half of his kit... doesn't really *do* much to help in either direction, and his passive is even worse. His 3 and 4, the abilities everyone mods around, are perfect, but it makes me sad that Frost is only 50%~ of what he really could be. That and with all the UI elements for frames being added, we could desperately use something for Snow Globe health that isn't that broken counter at the bottom right of the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 7 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said: Loki and Banshee didn't get any sort of changes beyond minor QoL stuff years ago, and they keep getting sidelined because of either not having a high enough player number for DE to care, or a single gimmick that leaves keeps the frame just played enough to not get into their focus. You might want to reconsider that statement, Loki so far as I'm aware is the second most used frame in the game following Excalibur (a frame whose stats are inherently bloated by being the default starter pick) so he's far from lacking in player numbers or just scuffing by, and he's left alone for that very reason. High usage numbers suggest his design is perfectly fine, at least in comparison to the full roster. Banshee on the other hand while not popular is hardly being looked over for that sentiment since Vauban (the least used from in the game presently) is getting a rework just around the bend, and she's not hovering just out of sight either because of niche uses as she's notably in the bottom five in regards to frame usage, or at least was last time Rebecca noted on it several months back. The more realistic reason either of those frames have been ignored where reworks are involved is simply because there hasn't been any vocal demand for such, which seems like a strong present factor for steering DE's decision making in regards to balance. It's not the most ideal place to be frankly, but I mean given enough time DE will eventually exhaust all the current hotly contested items and the playerbase will have to move onto the next thing, and one day that thing will be Banshee or maybe Loki even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunderke Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 There are many frame but I would say Titania needs some minor rework or tweak. Her abilities are not bad but she needs more fluidity and hopefully the archwing updates will makes her better later. Lantern is useful ability but it needs to be locked on a place to be efficient. I disagree however with those whom wants merge her spellbind and lantern because these abilities works differently. Spellbind indeed can make enemies fly but you can cast on you and on your allies so you can make them immune to status or remove procs. Lantern's only problem is the no position lock when you cast on target. Razorwing is fine ability and tribute is also useful but that may can see some tweaks. Other than this I see no real problem with her. Nyx is okay but she is in more needs of rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Frames most in need of a revisit are: Chroma Passive needs adjusted. Forcing color palletes for element is weird mechanic and is outdated. 1 should be on a cycle where you can rotate elements 2 and 3 should be combined into one ability, hold to do 2 press to do 3 4 is cool but could use some improvements. Some qol adjustments to sound, damage and cc based on element of the 1. Or interactivity with the 1 where you can supercharge it with your breath. Baruuk The whole idea of his kit is just... strange. Damage reduction on an empty resource pool is counter productive and should be flipped. The kit seems to play against itself as much as it benefits. Way I figure it you can realistically either build for the 1 and 2 or the 3 and 4. Nekros Soul punch having interactivity with his shadows would be nice. Soul punch on a shadow could explode it for a burst of cold damage. Terrify having target number based on power strength is limiting. It is a good panic button but cast time is too long. Pilfer is almost mandatory. Mandatory abilities should be revisited. The changes made to how this works is a step in the right direction but it would be nice to see it changed to something a bit more thematic. Maybe cause corpses to explode when pilfer procs causing damage or application of cold status. The extra loot could be swapped in as the augment. Shadows need a bit more visual improvement. Even after years of playing it isn't always clear whether or not they are allied units. Maybe make them much more ghostlike. Edited October 19, 2019 by Leqesai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOOMPATRIOT Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Nyx and Titania, poor creatures , this comes as a Nyx main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 10 hours ago, UltraMex said: Strange that there are no mentions of Revenant, a Frankenstein frame that keep falling apart. Well, That is probably because ppl just forgot that he exists. Anyways he's fine. He just needs more fluidity to his abilities imo. He's actually the only frame that can complete any type of mission with ease. If you know how to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyro1 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Leqesai said: Baruuk The whole idea of his kit is just... strange. Damage reduction on an empty resource pool is counter productive and should be flipped. The kit seems to play against itself as much as it benefits. Way I figure it you can realistically either build for the 1 and 2 or the 3 and 4. His resource meter make sense for the theme, he's suppose to be restrainted, relying on other methods of taking down sleeping or removing their weapons, and at the same time without getting hit himself. All of that does wear his restraint down leading him to use more lethal methods. If anything his 3 just needs to be looked out, it has damage reduction, but at the same time it disarms enemies, only problem is that you can realistically use one or the other, and depending on which you decide on the rest of his abilities will suffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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