Atlas Prime: Hotfix 25.8.2

[[DE]Megan]

55 minutes ago, Maxoumi said:

We can't drop Axi on C =/

We're investigating Uranus/Ur only dropping Neo Relics!

[Oreades]

@[DE]Megan

The problem with the Polarize forma wasn't the number of forma (per say, for some people that might have been where they drew their line) but it was that you are being forced to polarize period. 

That scenario works out very well if and only if the player either 

1. has something they want to forma at the second the challenge drops
2. gives absoloutly zero heccs about tossing a forma into some item of their gear for absoloutly no reason

Since group two would gladly do it regardless, the same people who had no problem farming up a throw away AMP/Moa/Etc to complete the (already removed) Gilding challenge. So I'll focus on the group that is going to be negatively impacted by this challenge regardless of the number of forma required tho the reduction does mitigate it to some degree. 

I've been on the receiving end of the "you just formad a bunch of gear two days ago, here have a Forma Challenge!" a couple of times now.

The problem that still exists is that this challenge is something that is going to interfere with peoples regular gameplay regardless of whether or not it is active by proxy of it's mere existence. Because knowing it exists players are inclined to hold off on adding a Forma to their gear naturally because of the concern that if you Forma now, the challenge could show up in the next rotation. So instead of adding the Forma when you have the need players can find themselves waiting until the challenge pops up. 

This is especially true of early game, I remember a time where I would sit on Forma for upwards of a week because they where so rare. Just mulling over where I would get the most benefit from that precious resource. Now I have most of my gear where I want it anyhow and even if I didn't I have relatively easy access to forma as compared to when I started. I have always hated to waste Forma so the whole which is probably why the "Just forma something random" or "just repolarize to the same polarity" has always just sounded extra dumb to me. 

At the end of the day people are going to want to complete as many challenges as are thrown at them until they hit max rank. That is just human nature. The exact same nature that saw people completing and complaining about Gilding modular items. They're going to feel bad about not doing the challenge so they are going to do it and then they are going to feel bad about having done it because they just wasted resources. 

The only group this challenge really works with are people who serendipitous happen to be thinking about a specific upgrade anyhow. Which is why IMO it should be removed just as the Gilding challenge was for essentially the same reasons. 

 

 

An alternative to removal that might not "solve" the problem in the long-long-longrun would be to overhaul the whole polarity system to switch over from a single polarity system to a multi-polarity system. Specifically an iterative multi-polarity system, where every forma you add (up to something like 40-50 depending on Umbra forma) would add value or at least perceived value to your weapon/frame. 

There is no fear of power creep in such a system because any current min/max build has already reached peak power. The only thing you gain from an iterative multi-polarity system is build flexibility. Making such a system IMO the best possible QoL update Warframe could ever receive. 

 

Essentially it would transition from the current system that goes 

New Weapon/Frame > Min-Maxed/optimal build 

to 

New Weapon/Frame > Min-Maxed/optimal build > Build flexibility and exploration

 

Min-maxing will never go away but the current system either punishes not only for achieving the min-maxed meta build by locking you out of build variety but also by punishing you for daring to attempt to build differently in the event that doesn't pan out. Because a failed attempt is going to waste not just the one forma for the attempt but a second forma to get back to your working build. So for a lot of people they just never try because there is no incentive to do so. 

Additionally I feel that is a significant contributing factor to a lot of underused mods not being used. Not just that people find them a bit lackluster but because it feels like you are being punished for the very attempt of trying to work them into a build. 

Where as an iterative multi-polarity system if that slot was already polarized and you add a second polarity to it, now it's dual-polarity and even if your initial consideration didn't work, you can always fall back to your old build because the new polarity didn't invalidate it like the current system does. Want to try something else with that dual-polarity slot? Just toss a third Forma on it and now it's Tri-polarity, etc. 

The current attempt to delve into muli-polarity with the all or nothing approach (Aura Forma) doesn't cut it as an "only option" because again you get into a place where players can feel that you are forcing them to do X when all they want is Y. Why do they want to quad-polarize a single slot when what they want is dual polarity over two slots? 

However the universal polarity Forma could serve well in tandem with an iterative system because then they become a choice. They can potentially save the player leveling time and that could naturally draw players in instead of being the one UND ONLY VUN way to do it. 

 

I think with an iterative multi-polarity system you would see a lot more people using a lot more forma and trying a lot more builds, all while feeling good about doing so. It also gives players something to grind towards for something more than "teh memes". Again without adding any additional power creep to the game because we've already hit peak power with in the current system.

 

Thank you for your time and putting up with my meanderings. 

[Zalidaris]

Still no fix for https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1132992-gauss-mag-helmet-deformation/?do=findComment&comment=11074696

[NekoNaz]

1 month after post - still not fixed

 

[DarkCrusader1985]

hace 2 horas, [DE]Megan dijo:

Swapped a duplicate Axi P2 Relic in numerous Interception mission drop tables with the correct Axi A6 Relic

This explains so much...

[P0LE_B01]

Tried the new Jupiter,Ganymede Disruption Drop Table and I gotta say that the Axi Relics are still rather rare considering the amount of [Motus .....] Mods that dropped(did around 10 runs)
and also Hexenons, which i do hope we get to use cause it's getting rather annoying having it in the C rotations.

might totally be the fact that i have bad luck, which it probably is.

[36ONoScope]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Nerubian77:

Woop woop hopefully see some of the spy fixes along with stealth but otherwise thank you guys!

Unfortunately the broken stealth affinity multiplier has not been fixed. They should probably start there.

[PsyPirate]

3 hours ago, Senguash said:

Thanks for the hotfix

People complaining about having to play the game isn't feedback.

It went from being impossibly difficult to trivially easy to get rank 60 in nightwave, and challenges are repeatedly being made easier.

When people complain about content it just gets made easier until they stop complaining, and the reason they stopped complaining is the content becomes quick and easy. Elite challanges end up just feeling like a chore, but if the chores are quick who will complaint?

This approach is part of what causes that feeling of content drought people also complain about.

This isn't nearly as good an example as what was done to the plains resource economy, but it is another example of retroactively undermining your own content for no real reason.

I'm writing this somewhat harsh comment because it's been an ongoing issue for a long time now.

You need to start also looking for ways to introduce additional challenge. 

Doing 60 minutes of kuva survival without using a normal life support was a lot more engaging than applying a single forma.

Not trying to attack you or anything, but just think that maybe it's not easy for everyone, and not only in a matter of difficulty itself, for me I find it hard to reach rank 30 in the nightwaves but because I travel a lot and work many hours per day and find after that little time to play. Should I stop playing simply because I don't have enough time to spend farming? I love the game as it is, and I don't complain much, but your right at some level, maybe if DE would add the option to choose the difficulty it would make it more balanced for everyone.

[maddragonmaster]

3 hours ago, Senguash said:

Thanks for the hotfix

People complaining about having to play the game isn't feedback.

It went from being impossibly difficult to trivially easy to get rank 60 in nightwave, and challenges are repeatedly being made easier.

When people complain about content it just gets made easier until they stop complaining, and the reason they stopped complaining is the content becomes quick and easy. Elite challanges end up just feeling like a chore, but if the chores are quick who will complaint?

This approach is part of what causes that feeling of content drought people also complain about.

This isn't nearly as good an example as what was done to the plains resource economy, but it is another example of retroactively undermining your own content for no real reason.

I'm writing this somewhat harsh comment because it's been an ongoing issue for a long time now.

You need to start also looking for ways to introduce additional challenge. 

Doing 60 minutes of kuva survival without using a normal life support was a lot more engaging than applying a single forma.

eh. not sure how i feel about the forma bit so i'll just let you have that. but the silver grove change to 1 requirement is undoubtedly the better thing they could of done. because the dang Easter egg hunt is nothing but a trivial chore. there is nothing challenging or difficult about gathering insignificant batches of foliage to cook up something that allows us to fight a specter once.  

i would respect what you had to say if you didn't nitpick every single change that removes any unneeded hassle. 

besides the main point of the changes is because people where referring to them as chores in the first place. if they where referred to as chores regardless they might as well make them brief. 

and again i would understand you a little bit better if you where picking and choosing what you wanted to say so as to get more people on your side. but right now your no better then the people that where complaining about them.

[Shinjen]

Yesssss finally Axi's, thanks a lot guys.

[richardtrle]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Atlas Prime: Hotfix 25.8.2

• Fixed wonky plant spawns in the Grineer Shipyards tileset. As reported here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/dfk69f/de_fix_when/

Awww I was featured 🙂

[Bhyd]

Thanks so much for making A6 less painful to farm!

[0_The_F00l]

Noticing there are now a lot of holes in Kuva survival map?
Players are getting teleported to the extraction if they jump into one.

[kurtasch]

Premise: you dont care about focus anymore (because you maxed everything) - so lua lens bp is (close to) useless

Consequence: atm the B-rotation is better than the C-rotation @ LUA disruption (because it has a slightly higher chance to get Axi relics)

therefore it is better to partly fail the round and fall back to B-rotation than to do well and get the C-rotation

I just wonder, did you think this through? Making the "easier" way more profitable than the harder way?

I think its like cheating the system in that way. I will do so, because its only logically, but it doesnt make much sense to me.

[BlindStalker]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Nightwave Changes:
The following Acts for future Nightwaves have been changed based on player feedback:

• The ‘Polarized’ Act has changed from 3 Forma to 1 Forma. 
• The ‘Grove Guardian’ Act has changed from killing 3 Silver Grove Specters to 1.

So, are you going to add the:

• Removed the ‘Guild a Modular’ Act.

To the nightwave changes? Because that change was also given to the console tenno in their most recent update (in Hotfix: Atlas Prime (+Hotfixes)) What's with the inconsistency between PC platform and console platform nightwave changes?

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Hexenon and Orokin Cell drops from Amalgams appearing as Mods.

I assume you guys are still investigating whether the Amalgam mods are still properly dropping based off of Saske's reply in my bug thread on this issue. Please do update us later on the conclusions of Saske's investigation into the Amalgam drops, because we are all collectively convinced that the amalgam mod drops are re-bugged again and are not properly dropping.

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Swapped a duplicate Axi P2 Relic in numerous Interception mission drop tables with the correct Axi A6 Relic. 

Okay, that fix is greatly appreciated. Even though I'm done my Atlas Neuros A6 farm, but at least less painful for others now.

[Talinthis]

forma change.. maybe. grove guardians were fine though. it was easy to find a couple people, then bam, done all in one mission.

[Kitsuty]

3 hours ago, Senguash said:

People complaining about having to play the game isn't feedback.

It went from being impossibly difficult to trivially easy to get rank 60 in nightwave, and challenges are repeatedly being made easier.

Wait, I'm not sure what you're getting at. You speak of engagement but forma'ing something isn't engaging. It just feels wasteful to be told to forma 3 times (when that's 3/7 of your weekly crafted formas, it's a challenge I usually skipped when I wasn't trying to upgrade anything since almost everything I like is forma'd to hell and back).

People complaining about these things is 100% feedback and I appreciate them listening to it. It still gets us to use formas, and do the silver grove. It accomplishes what it needs to without making players feel like they're over-expensive yet unrewarding.

[yarl5000]

2 hours ago, Lint said:

I was dismayed for precisely the same reasons - I got a Dual Decurion riven recently - but fear not! I found that the UI works if you attempt to modify the archgun from its regular location directly below where you equip your archwing.

I wonder if they are fixing it with the next mainline since they are redoing the arsenal UI so pushing out a fix for it for the old UI would be seen as a waste of time if next week the issue would have been rolled into a fix with the new arsenal UI

[machinech]

4 hours ago, Senguash said:

Thanks for the hotfix

People complaining about having to play the game isn't feedback.

It went from being impossibly difficult to trivially easy to get rank 60 in nightwave, and challenges are repeatedly being made easier.

When people complain about content it just gets made easier until they stop complaining, and the reason they stopped complaining is the content becomes quick and easy. Elite challanges end up just feeling like a chore, but if the chores are quick who will complaint?

This approach is part of what causes that feeling of content drought people also complain about.

This isn't nearly as good an example as what was done to the plains resource economy, but it is another example of retroactively undermining your own content for no real reason.

I'm writing this somewhat harsh comment because it's been an ongoing issue for a long time now.

You need to start also looking for ways to introduce additional challenge. 

Doing 60 minutes of kuva survival without using a normal life support was a lot more engaging than applying a single forma.

... clearly someone doesn't appreciate their shiny achievement being less shiny because others can have it too... this is very sad. They want that fixed asap because their feelings are far more important than the people they don't agree with.

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Buzlok has been bugged for over a whole year now :pepehands: , fix soon pretty please?

[king_kingov]

[DE] Still no drops rare amalgama mods in secret labs!

[blinddog42]

"Craft a Forma from blueprint" might have been a more relevant & interesting challenge than being forced to forma something.

That at least would have sent you off on some fissure mission (and play the game!) to get a blueprint if you didn't already have stockpiles of it.

[[DE]Megan]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We're investigating Uranus/Ur only dropping Neo Relics!

After investigation, the notes were incorrect to state that Uranus/Ur Rotation C had Axi Relics, as it actually has just Neo Relics now (public drop tables are correct).

Amended:

*Uranus/Ur

• Rotation A Rewards now drop Meso Relics, replacing Lith Relics
• Rotation B Rewards now drop Neo Relics, replacing Meso Relics
• Removed Axi Relics from Rotation C Rewards, it now only has Neo Relics
• Added Neo C1 Relic to Rotation B and Rotation C rewards

[Aphelion_Sole]

Bugs:
- Limbo face ribbon clipping into chest. 
- Operator armor emissives not taking dual colors. "At least for Saita Prime suit"
- Extreme part miss-alignments on AMPs.
Suggestions:
- Would be nice if Revenant themed items had their wisp fx brightened to match how it looks on Revenant. Items such as the Vetala armor, the Kasha Kavat armor, and the Tatsu Katana.
- Model changes to Valkyr Deluxe Gersemi skin. Skin is very blocky compared to everything else and looks very low polygon and even has some spots where the model is broken and has some super jaggies sticking out such as on her shoulders.

[sirchadwick76]

6 hours ago, Bioboygamer said:

No, it means the task has changed, not the reward.

Oops! Yeah scanned through it to fast, my bad.