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[DE]Megan

Atlas Prime: Hotfix 25.8.2

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7 minutes ago, Cpt_Thule said:

DE, any eta on update 26 release if possible?

On the Devstream they said "Monday" but that literally almost never happens. 

Given they had the goal of Monday, I'm going to guess either between 4-8PM EST today or some time tomorrow. Hopefully, then they can get out any major hotfixes before the weekend rather than shipping a janky mainline on Friday with no hotfixes till Monday. 

I think they've picked up that people appreciate when they're able to launch mainlines in this fashion. Much like not running hotfixes during night time in Cetus.

I would even say, given that most of us are accustomed to a little waiting. l o l . Even if DE thinks they're good for a launch later on in the week, I'd gladly wait the extra few days for a Mon-Tuesday launch every time around. Not only that, I imagine it must be less stressful for DE staff to not have to worry so much about it over the weekend lol. 

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I don't understand.

 

The entire goal of Nightwave was to bring a more consistent stream of content into the game, so that the huge gaps between significant content weren't functionally murdering the player base.  They're modelling this off of the Fortnite design, who aped it from a dozen other sources.  The point here is to force players back into old content to get the new, effectively recycling the stuff constantly so that you keep your base engaged.

The people here claiming that challenge was ever the goal...I just don't get.  Warframe is by its mechanics not a game built around challenge, but around grind.  When you moan about any one group ruining the game, you miss the point that doing anything requires an investment.  Let's look at syndicates.  You grind gear to get MR.  MR gives you the ability to get more syndicate points.  The syndicate points require grinding relics to rank up.  Once you've ranked up you grind for the rewards, which are gear for mastery and relics....  Not challenging, unless you decide to get into the broken level scaling in the game.

 

Likewise, new players are needed to keep the game alive.  I'd suggest that everyone moaning about newbies check where their platinum comes from.  A new player pays so development can continue, and an older player gives up gear accumulated through grinding.  If you don't introduce enough content to the new player crowd then you can't exactly keep supporting the people who pay nothing.

 

My greater issue is that the intermissions are getting longer.  Based upon the 30 ranks, we're looking at an intermission that will last as long as a season.  About 3 levels per week, 30 levels, puts us well into the 10-12 week intermission period.  Not exactly an intermission if it lasts as long as an act....right?  The lack of investment required to get these levels doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that DE is communicating that they cannot support the system, but are too deeply entrenched to back out and do something they can actually sustain.  

This isn't a problem of balancing hard core and casual, but the ability to sustain content which has been demonstrated to be a greater draw than any past items.  DE isn't keeping up, and instead of stopping and redeveloping they're building in longer periods between the content and playing it off as nothing.  That cavalier attitude is...frustrating.

 

 

On a side note, I've recently been watching some reporting on the dead MMOs of the past.  The common theme to these is that the flow of content is the lifeblood of the game.  Warframe has as much flow as your stereotype nerd.  It gets content in fits and spasms; the content ranges from improvements (Rivens, Primes, Vandals, etc...), to new things to do (Archwing, disruptions, sorites, etc...), to actual content (weapons, frames, etc...).  It's generally accepted that Warframe experiences a months long content drought between their larger open worlds...the kind that kills other games.  I think DE finally got this after the "I'm quitting because there's nothing to cover" yearly cycle.  Unfortunately the changes are a bare minimum and don't exactly entice given the huge input required for the one of two good outputs that aren't available anywhere else (read: Umbral Forma).  It's interesting to see such a critical content failure, and the community blaming themselves.  When Destiny and Anthem did it people knew it was the developer not supporting it through a lack of resources, but it seems like this community swallows it....a bit of a quandry from where I sit.  I see that after 5+ years nothing changed.  DE is making plenty of money (read, 250,000 given away implies income profits in excess of that), but they act like they're constantly dying.  It's like a certain cat.... 

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Dear DE : This has been a problem since late summer : Nora night's face doesn't show up or speak outside of cutscenes. It's just not there, and when I view cred offerings, it's just a white screen instead of her face. I do hope you can investigate and figure out a fix for this. It's not urgent, I just wanna know why I am the only one experiencing this.

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4 hours ago, VintageBones said:

Dear DE : This has been a problem since late summer : Nora night's face doesn't show up or speak outside of cutscenes. It's just not there, and when I view cred offerings, it's just a white screen instead of her face. I do hope you can investigate and figure out a fix for this. It's not urgent, I just wanna know why I am the only one experiencing this.

Hotfix Threads are way too overcrowded to have a random bug noticed. Try PC Bugs at https://forums.warframe.com/forum/11-pc-bugs/ where every mainline there's a dedicated thread or submitting a bug report at https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us

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14 hours ago, Dedalion said:

Still waiting DE fix dethcube bug stop firing...

Cool so it's not just me it's happened too, my Dethcube prime use to stop firing after the Emissaries spawned in but obviously it's still happening and not related to them.

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On 2019-10-22 at 2:20 PM, notbydesign said:

On the Devstream they said "Monday" but that literally almost never happens. 

Given they had the goal of Monday, I'm going to guess either between 4-8PM EST today or some time tomorrow. Hopefully, then they can get out any major hotfixes before the weekend rather than shipping a janky mainline on Friday with no hotfixes till Monday. 

I think they've picked up that people appreciate when they're able to launch mainlines in this fashion. Much like not running hotfixes during night time in Cetus.

I would even say, given that most of us are accustomed to a little waiting. l o l . Even if DE thinks they're good for a launch later on in the week, I'd gladly wait the extra few days for a Mon-Tuesday launch every time around. Not only that, I imagine it must be less stressful for DE staff to not have to worry so much about it over the weekend lol. 

"Monday" launch.

Monday has the introduction of an "intermission" as long as a "season."

Tuesday is no communication through official channels.  It may have been announced of Twitter and the likes, but nothing on the main page of the game.

3:30 on Wednesday and still nothing.  

Edit: Modifying the previous edit here.  Thursday night is a Dev build of The Old Blood.  Best case scenario is likely therefore a Friday release, if at all this week.  Given the last few updates stillborn after a Friday release, I'm hoping we get one more weekend of the old working systems before everybody has to go out a grind like crazy to get back to where we were (and with the changes highlighted this is optimistic for those with less than a large selection of melee options waiting and fully mastered).  Alternatively a Friday release, a Saturday string of hotfixes, a dozen pages minimum of angry players who are bugged out more than usual, and a Halloween week waiting for the fixes.  Like how it took weeks to go from working metal orbiters, to plastic, to eventually a functionally indistinguishable metal texture (none of which providing tangible benefit to the players).

 

 

Not holding my breath.  It'll be a Baro weekend to disappoint, a mainline that's DOA, and changes to melee which are now a year out from when they were initially threatened.  Expectations low.  No matter how good Grendel is, it's going to require that the new kavat is amazing to make anything good here.

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On 2019-10-18 at 1:14 PM, Senguash said:

Thanks for the hotfix

People complaining about having to play the game isn't feedback.

It went from being impossibly difficult to trivially easy to get rank 60 in nightwave, and challenges are repeatedly being made easier.

When people complain about content it just gets made easier until they stop complaining, and the reason they stopped complaining is the content becomes quick and easy. Elite challanges end up just feeling like a chore, but if the chores are quick who will complaint?

This approach is part of what causes that feeling of content drought people also complain about.

This isn't nearly as good an example as what was done to the plains resource economy, but it is another example of retroactively undermining your own content for no real reason.

I'm writing this somewhat harsh comment because it's been an ongoing issue for a long time now.

You need to start also looking for ways to introduce additional challenge. 

Doing 60 minutes of kuva survival without using a normal life support was a lot more engaging than applying a single forma.

I do agree things have much room for difficulty, but killing 3 specters isn't significantly harder than killing 1 - in fact i'd argue that neither are hard. Obtaining and applying forma also isn't hard, it's tedious, and if you didn't have anything you wanted to use it on, potentially wasteful.

They're reducing grind, which isn't difficulty. Most relevant merits of this change could be applied if the change was instead "Complete 2 rounds of arbitration solo with two dragon keys equipped." Surely harder than either the forma or the specter, and less annoying in a good few ways. Could they add more difficult challenges? Sure, but that's not exactly what you seem to be arguing when you attribute it to this change.

Also, plains resource economy? What do you mean by that; again, grind isn't difficulty.

Finally, content drought isn't solved by grind; especially not resource grind for the same old resources, or mission grind of a mission that's existed for years. More challenges (as in quantity per week/day,) and/or higher challenge variety would be a way to do it in NW, but again, reducing grindiness of individual challenges seems fine in my book.

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So....yeah.

 

Let's make a kitgun that requires some annoying grind for fish.  Then let's remove that with the second orb mother.  Let's keep it hidden behind a grind wall though.  Now, one of those kitguns will be leagues better than anything else, and we'll nerf its rivens into the ground.  Despite all of this, the community loved it because the thing is an Arca Plasmor but not crap because we can choose crit or status builds.  The problem is only the cost, grind, and how amazing it is.

Months later we data mine.  After nerfing the rivens on so many secondaries, the catchmoon is still used by everybody.  Great damage, fair dropoff, and the grind is acceptable for the power.

Instead of addressing this, because our game is built off of broken scaling that necessitates this level of power, let's nerf it.  No improvements for other things, just nerf the catchmoon to where it's effectively a melee weapon.  

 

I'd like to suggest things that would probably get me a ban.  I'd really like to suggest you take a long walk off of a short cliff.  As with the best weapons in the game, instead of addressing the root cause of the issue you just nerf anything that people use because it's powerful.  Now the catchmoon will be worthless unless you're in melee range, and there's a fast melee button.  Slow freaking clap.

 

Every time DE.  Instead of fixing problems you destroy a bit more content and kick it down the road.  No exponential equations would produce less scaling issues.  Power nullifiers that nullify protection, countered by a single weapon with a unique mod, are not a challenge.  Likewise, nerfing weapons that are good doesn't make things fair.  How about we make good content, that is fair?  If you have a problem, use wikipedia.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmoid_function

 

I never cease to be amazed you still exist.  Despite Bethesda and EA level stupidity you continue to chug on.  I think I'm done asking for better.  I think after next week I'm just done with you for another year.  I will be fair and give you that chance, but it isn't something you've earned.

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On 2019-10-24 at 5:26 PM, XactLee said:

I do agree things have much room for difficulty, but killing 3 specters isn't significantly harder than killing 1 - in fact i'd argue that neither are hard. Obtaining and applying forma also isn't hard, it's tedious, and if you didn't have anything you wanted to use it on, potentially wasteful.

They're reducing grind, which isn't difficulty. Most relevant merits of this change could be applied if the change was instead "Complete 2 rounds of arbitration solo with two dragon keys equipped." Surely harder than either the forma or the specter, and less annoying in a good few ways. Could they add more difficult challenges? Sure, but that's not exactly what you seem to be arguing when you attribute it to this change.

Also, plains resource economy? What do you mean by that; again, grind isn't difficulty.

Finally, content drought isn't solved by grind; especially not resource grind for the same old resources, or mission grind of a mission that's existed for years. More challenges (as in quantity per week/day,) and/or higher challenge variety would be a way to do it in NW, but again, reducing grindiness of individual challenges seems fine in my book.

Thank you for speaking some sense. The endless grind now or miss item X, Y, Z for years isn't an incentive to play. I know that DE has a lot of people hooked with their FOMO policies, but it's just made me give up the game. I'm glad the grind it at least being reduced some, but the massive periods between sessions shows that there's no reason Nightwave even needs to be compressed into such a small window. If new seasons can't be rolled out any faster anyway then why not space the active time out more and reduce the grind? I played this game for the weapons, the cosmetics, and here and there new and interesting enemies. Now the game constantly adds walls that keep me from trying weapons unless I want to swipe my card or no life one specific tileset or game mode until I hate my life. I'd actually want to log in again if I knew the game would feel rewarding once more instead of a chore. Guess I'll check back in again in a few months.

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On 2019-10-22 at 10:52 PM, master_of_destiny said:

My greater issue is that the intermissions are getting longer.

My guess is that DE does not want main nightwave chapter running during big content releases.

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1 hour ago, Silver-Priest said:

My guess is that DE does not want main nightwave chapter running during big content releases.

Why are you ascribing to careful planning what could be more adequately explained by stretching content?

More importantly, this would then mean that the plan is for there to be no significant content additions for 10+ weeks at a time.

 

I'm not sure where to go with that?  Do you acquiesce, and admit that DE has introduced Nightwave as content recycling?  Do you argue against the point, and hope that The Old Blood is anything more than a new RNG grind for slightly modified weapons and a new way to get a follower that can't be summoned instantly?  Do you go entirely positive and suggest that the railjack development has been depressing content for nearly two years now?

 

I choose to believe history is repeating.  Big promises, drastic changes that anger so much of the player base, content for a long weekend dragged into weeks because of RNG, and all of it underwhelming because they've been promising this for months.  By December we'll have hit the new status quo, and then Railjack will be rushed out still born about a stalker group resurgence.  Things will be stable and fun again by March, just in time for months of promises about the Corpus missions for Railjack being amazing.  Wedged into all of that will be the New War, as a cinematic mission meant to justify why Railjack is taking too long and why the latest promises are another 6+ months away.  DE never learned.  They keep promising the moon, and way under delivering "because it's a a beta."  It's getting old again.  This is why people leave permanently, once you get past the grind there's nothing. 

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On 2019-10-18 at 11:43 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Atlas Prime: Hotfix 25.8.2

Nightwave Changes:
The following Acts for future Nightwaves have been changed based on player feedback:

  • The ‘Polarized’ Act has changed from 3 Forma to 1 Forma. 
  • The ‘Grove Guardian’ Act has changed from killing 3 Silver Grove Specters to 1.

Disruption Relic Reward Changes:
Based on some great player feedback we’ve shifted Relic types around per Rotation for some Disruption nodes to better balance the reward vs length of time you’re dedicating to the mission: 

Sedna/Kelpie

  • Rotation A Rewards now drop Meso Relics, replacing Lith Relics
  • Rotation B Rewards now drop Neo Relics, replacing Meso Relics
  • Rotation C Rewards now drop Axi Relics, replacing Neo Relics

*Uranus/Ur

  • Rotation A Rewards now drop Meso Relics, replacing Lith Relics
  • Rotation B Rewards now drop Neo Relics, replacing Meso Relics
  • Removed Axi Relics from Rotation C Rewards, it now only has Neo Relics
  • Added Neo C1 Relic to Rotation B and Rotation C rewards

Lua/Apollo

  • Rotation A Rewards now drop Neo Relics, replacing Lith Relics
  • Rotation B Rewards now drop Axi Relics, replacing Meso Relics
  • Rotation C Rewards now drop Axi Relics, replacing Neo Relics

Jupiter/Ganymede

  • Rotation A Rewards now drop Meso Relics, replacing Lith Relics
  • Rotation B Rewards now drop Neo Relics, replacing Meso Relics
  • Rotation C Rewards now drop Axi Relics only, Meso Relics have been removed

Mars/Olympus

  • Removed duplicate Lith Relic from Rotation A Rewards
  • Rotation B Rewards now drop Lith Relics, replacing Meso Relics
  • Rotation C Rewards now drop Meso Relics, replacing Neo Relics


Optimizations:

  • Minor performance improvements when killing Infested Crawlers.
  • Fixed a script error/loss of functionality if you fail to complete a trade in Maroo's Bazaar.
  • Fixed possible UI lock-up when attempting to contribute to incomplete Solar Rail Research (currently disabled).

Changes:

  • Swapped a duplicate Axi P2 Relic in numerous Interception mission drop tables with the correct Axi A6 Relic. 
  • Swapped duplicate Relics on Rotation A of some Interception missions and replaced with correct Relics (Neo Z3 and Neo C1).

Fixes:

  • Fixed sometimes being locked out of spawning your K-Drive if you fail to spawn it due to being too close to the Plains of Eidolon boundary.
  • Fixed players being left floating if they were standing on an Excavator or a Capture Case when it is destroyed.
  • Fixed Hexenon and Orokin Cell drops from Amalgams appearing as Mods.
  • Fixed red emissives on the Venus Terra Moas.
  • Fixed some UI screens not having correct icons/textures displayed after a level transition.
  • Fixed a spawn point in the Corpus Ship Onslaught tileset.
  • Fixed a level hole in the Corpus Outpost tileset.
  • Fixed wonky plant spawns in the Grineer Shipyards tileset. As reported here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/dfk69f/de_fix_when/

warframe is getting to be stale and dry. I am not even playing warframe much at all anymore I have resorted to other games that are actually challenging.. such as destiny 2 and division 2. I used to love warframe and for 6+ hours on end. and over time warframe has not fulfilled my drive to blow my mind and is super lame and it just repeats its self and steals other games mechanics and inserted it into warframe like a coin into an arcade machine. There's only so many times you can reinvent the wheel.

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