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Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE


SilverBones

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hace 34 minutos, A.R.X.A dijo:

the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

Keep in mind  not all players think like you... many will love it while others will dissagree.. wait for test to give the last word anyway.
Also Path of Exile ? really?.. you know how anoying is start again then again then again each time they release a new content...

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2 hours ago, A.R.X.A said:

the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

Isn't the current point of endgame to simply go in an endless match until you simply can't any longer? For the challenge! Because it's not like any end-game player needs to be farming something on one match for 6+ hours at a time. So what's the problem with nerfing melee a bit to bring that "challenge zone" within maybe just 5 hours on endless, instead of 6? You really expect the rest of us to give a damn that you hate getting what you want faster?

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On 2019-10-28 at 5:04 PM, Ceryk said:

Always hilarious to see how grossly overblown the response to these things are. Legitimately needed balancing, exploit fixes, and things that ultimately result in fairly minor changes to the game are so often met with laughably oversized outrage and Chicken Little Syndrome.

This cannot be restated hard enough, so I'm just going to quote it.

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19 hours ago, Druidx said:

Haven't played the game, logged in, or posted a few years. But these changes got me excited.

Side note. The changes coming to range enhancements that will make long weapons simply Pretty Good, rather than Mindlessly And Safely Kill The Entire Room Good, makes me happy. It will be good for the health of the game and it's likely to pull melee away from the meta overcentralization of polearms, greatswords and whips, without taking their place away completely.

The tears of the people whining about that change bring me intense satisfaction. I've never had a bigger grin on my face than reading the comments of these people saying they're going to QUIT THE GAME because of nerfs a meta that holds the game back from being an interesting action game.

No really, I'm popping a wine bottle when I'm done writing this. Cheers to the remaining losers.

To be fair some of these are legitimate concerns ie Naramon becoming completely useless. Or life strike being harder to utilize.

Still goin a bit overboard, the people whining and people like you who only instigate the situation. If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

To be fair some of these are legitimate concerns ie Naramon becoming completely useless. Or life strike being harder to utilize.

Still goin a bit overboard, the people whining and people like you who only instigate the situation. If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem.

"People" like me? Are part of what problem, exactly? And in what way am I part of this, "problem"?

"If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem." is an obnoxious "everyone get on my side" scrap of logic that just polarizing for the sake polarizing. No different from "If you're not with us, you're against us."  It's a way to pretend to be a peaceful, neutral party with nothing to gain or lose, with only the best intentions for everyone in mind.

In short, no u.

Regardless, yeah, the state of the game is going to change sometimes. Sometimes that's going to change things you've put time and resources in getting. I wasn't a big fan of Vazarin when the focus 2.0 hit. I don't like that Galatine Prime made my War feel pointless. But anything that decentralizes the meta and allows more diversity in productive playstyles is objectively good for the game. People holding on to braindead meta that overshadows everything else by a huge margin hold the balance of the entire game back. "They" are part of a problem, and it has nothing to do with them "not being part of a solution". But they shouldn't need to be. They should just be able to enjoy the game however they want to because the game is updated to be as good as it can be. And not everything can be buffs. That's just the practical reality of updating.

notgonnaliethough their salt is extremely satisfying. "WARFRAME DOESN'T NEED TO BE BALANCED IT'S A PVE GAME PLEASE JUST LET BROKEN STUFF BE BROKEN PLEASE IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME IS USELESS IN COMPARISON GOSH DARN I HATE THIS SO MUCH I'M GONNA QUIT PLAYING IF I CAN'T FARM AT THE OLYMPIC LEVEL".

How much of a problem can my words be if they're quitting the game anyway? ;;)))

Yeah somehow I suspect they will get over it.

Come on though, there's no reason to think Naramon is going to be "completely useless". All the other critical stats are being converted. There's no reason to think Naramon won't be converted to still serve it's purpose.

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On 2019-10-30 at 2:07 PM, MSD3000 said:

Isn't the current point of endgame to simply go in an endless match until you simply can't any longer? For the challenge! Because it's not like any end-game player needs to be farming something on one match for 6+ hours at a time. So what's the problem with nerfing melee a bit to bring that "challenge zone" within maybe just 5 hours on endless, instead of 6? You really expect the rest of us to give a damn that you hate getting what you want faster?

Brillant argument. Thx 🙂

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9 hours ago, Druidx said:

"People" like me? Are part of what problem, exactly? And in what way am I part of this, "problem"?

"If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem." is an obnoxious "everyone get on my side" scrap of logic that just polarizing for the sake polarizing. No different from "If you're not with us, you're against us."  It's a way to pretend to be a peaceful, neutral party with nothing to gain or lose, with only the best intentions for everyone in mind.

In short, no u.

Regardless, yeah, the state of the game is going to change sometimes. Sometimes that's going to change things you've put time and resources in getting. I wasn't a big fan of Vazarin when the focus 2.0 hit. I don't like that Galatine Prime made my War feel pointless. But anything that decentralizes the meta and allows more diversity in productive playstyles is objectively good for the game. People holding on to braindead meta that overshadows everything else by a huge margin hold the balance of the entire game back. "They" are part of a problem, and it has nothing to do with them "not being part of a solution". But they shouldn't need to be. They should just be able to enjoy the game however they want to because the game is updated to be as good as it can be. And not everything can be buffs. That's just the practical reality of updating.

notgonnaliethough their salt is extremely satisfying. "WARFRAME DOESN'T NEED TO BE BALANCED IT'S A PVE GAME PLEASE JUST LET BROKEN STUFF BE BROKEN PLEASE IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME IS USELESS IN COMPARISON GOSH DARN I HATE THIS SO MUCH I'M GONNA QUIT PLAYING IF I CAN'T FARM AT THE OLYMPIC LEVEL".

How much of a problem can my words be if they're quitting the game anyway? ;;)))

Yeah somehow I suspect they will get over it.

Come on though, there's no reason to think Naramon is going to be "completely useless". All the other critical stats are being converted. There's no reason to think Naramon won't be converted to still serve it's purpose.

Ah you dont see ypurself as a problem cause ur too high up on your horse. Lets be honest your about as annoying as the people whining. You contribute about as much as them too. What exactly are you gaining by adding to the idiocy? Have you provided any construct feedback? Yes and no. These are obviously your opinions based on knowledge and a rework you do not yet possess and thats fine. Speculation is always welcome but then the second half of your comment is basically "i like salt".  Your whole comments value is then undermined by it. It wasnt needed. All it does is instigate more problems. Again part of the problem not the solution.

 

Also you have no proof that naramon wont get left behind. I am attributing my information to the fact naramon was not mentioned on prime time but zen was. The things not said are just as important as the ones that are. Naramon, the melee centric school, was not addressed.

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On 2019-10-29 at 1:04 AM, Ceryk said:

Legitimately needed balancing, exploit fixes, and things that ultimately result in fairly minor changes to the game are so often met with laughably oversized outrage and Chicken Little Syndrome.

Look at me i don't use it so it's a minor change and everyone else is dumb because they don't play like me.

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53 minutes ago, She11by said:

Look at me i don't use it so it's a minor change and everyone else is dumb because they don't play like me.

Don't be a jerk because you are mad about something minor being changed. DE has changed plenty of small things I do use and not every change I agree with, but I have never once acted like an idiot that thinks it's going to ruin the entire game or thrown tantrums like a child and threatened to quit over something stupid like removing spin to win yet again or what ever ever lazy exploit people are being mad is being removed this time.

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On 2019-10-30 at 6:29 AM, A.R.X.A said:

the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

Have.. have you actually played a non-Cyclone melee build in PoE since Legion dropped? Because PoE's melee is clunky garbage right now and even more in need of a drastic rework than Warframe's melee.

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35 minutes ago, Ceryk said:

Don't be a jerk because you are mad about something minor being changed. DE has changed plenty of small things I do use and not every change I agree with, but I have never once acted like an idiot that thinks it's going to ruin the entire game or thrown tantrums like a child and threatened to quit over something stupid like removing spin to win yet again or what ever ever lazy exploit people are being mad is being removed this time.

This guy is a jerk, not me, i'm not laughing at people because they play differently.

For YOU it may be a minor change, for a lot of people it's not.

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On 2019-10-18 at 8:58 PM, [DE]Bear said:

LIFTED STATUS. When a target is Lifted, it is held suspended in the air, allowing a player to follow up on attacks while the target is held helplessly aloft.

As others have noted, many of these changes are worrisome - like the Condition Overload being nerfed hundreds of times. But what worries me most about all these changes is the "Lifted status".

There is not enough information about it. It only lifts enemies so we can perform shiny combos at them?

This mechanic is a very clear copy of other games. My first guess is the 2019's DMC5 or MK11, but in those games this mechanic not only for show - it has important part of game's whole combat system. In DMC5 its about the stylish meter and getting more points, in MK11 its about getting free hits without the enemy blocking or retaliating.

In Warframe one should not want to deal with a single enemy for more than a second or two. Anything at or over 2 seconds is already a waste of effort. Even Covert Lethality is within that time range. So that "status" must not be just for looks. We need numbers to it, and with big effect - X damage multiplier, increase the combo counter with X%, spread all status to nearby enemies or similar. It must be something worth putting the time into it.

Otherwise its a wasted dev effort. Just like K-Drive - a copy of Tony Hawk games, but so underdeveloped that it doesn't benefit Warframe at all.

We need more information on that status effect. 

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So daggers got screwed on the Block angles and lost Covert Lethalty......Why exactly would anybody in their right minds touch a dagger ever again? Covert Lethalty already was the single reason daggers were alright on a selected few frames, these changes make dagger 100% obsolete.....great job! But hey, ppl can stab enemys from 10 meters away now thanks to the reach rework! Because that totally makes sense! Screw you DE.

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All and all, good changes so far. The only thing I would suggest is make melee heavy attack a press and hold (mouse 1) when in dedicated melee mode, this is natural and intuitive, this also plays well with combos, so for example: forward+light attack -> forward+heavy attack = combo; so on and so forth. This would also work well with the ground slam, single press = light ground slam, press and hold = heavy ground slam.

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