Jump to content
[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Equinox48 said:

I get it that people want their equipped melee back, but what about if people want to keep the seamless transition from melee to ranged then back? Would we have to use redeemer or somethin like that?

 

And what about auto blocking, what if there's an option in settings for if ppl want auto blocking on?

all of that is still being kept

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are block animations getting a touching up tho? I feel this is a bit of an issue that's been, they don't really have much oomph and pazzaz to them. They feel more like you're waving something trying to hypnotize someone rather than a fierce block of a serious attack. An example of how it could be for many weapons I feel is something akin to how Cyborg Ninja would block automatic gunfire. Or in case of heavier paddles, something like just holding it in a downward diagonal angle or similar without waving it (we'll just agree that the sheer awesome presence of the gigantic paddle compelled everyone to shoot directly at it), maybe place a hand to support it from behind.

Also, lots of sparks. Can't have blocking bullets without sparks flying everywhere.

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They don't even show stats of new CO and all people are just crying..  and i'm sure that more than half of this people cant stay in arbi survival more than 20min.. and they need for that CO... xDD

19 minutes ago, xZephyrosx said:

That combo counter though .. It will going to hurt.. Bye bye scaling dmg!

Whaat? WHY? Blood Rush will work same, but with different stats AND Body Cound, Drifting Contact will stay SAME.. 

  • Haha 1
  • Woah 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OH YES! FINALLY!
The range stat.

This has been a long time coming.
Thank you, DE. Much appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Image result for question mark meme

Well, let's say 20% of the enemy max health.
That's a flat 20%, no matter your weapon damage. It will just scale of enemy health, so at higher level, you can basically use a 1 damage weapon.
It would make every non scalling or non percent damage useless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Equinox48 said:

I get it that people want their equipped melee back, but what about if people want to keep the seamless transition from melee to ranged then back? Would we have to use redeemer or somethin like that?

 

And what about auto blocking, what if there's an option in settings for if ppl want auto blocking on?

I'm pretty sure seamless transition and autoblocking aren't going away, they just put Sword Alone back in and you can manual block in Sword Alone.

All the "block combo's" specifically say they trigger on aim as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any word as to whether auto blocking will still be present from the phase 1 update? I much prefer being able to swap between firearms and melee on the fly and don't want to be forced to go into melee only mode in order to block incoming fire.

Don't even know why the option is coming back. Who the Heck asked for this?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the new update going to make melee attacks slow and in particular slide attack builds loved and used by so many players less effective? All new attack styles look great but if it's just superficial, it's going to damage the effectiveness of the current melee system. A main reason I and others use melee a lot is its efficiency in clearing rooms of enemies particularly in low to mid levels. If the effectiveness of the new melee system is worse than the current state, the update will not be a total success. Please keep some of the stats and % of the Blood Rush, Maiming Strike, slide attack critical chance and retain the related stats so slide attack is still effectiveness while all other attack styles are being improved. 
This will be a lot of players' concerns. Please ignore few but very vocal complains by some players who don't even use melee a lot.  

  • Haha 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Emperor said:

Encouraging people to get creative while also limiting them is a bad choice. If you're so upset that melee is too powerful, why don't you buff primaries/secondaries to scale the same? Nerfing the only way to get high amounts of damage completely kills endurance runs. Then again, i guess we should know by now you don't actually care about your endgame/endurance players. 🙄

...Yes?

Pretty sure DE have said several times that enemies with level >200 are outside their primary design scope for the game. Ideally, there would never be any way to encounter enemies of that level, and they would be able to cut out the mechanisms and mods that allow players to effectively combat enemies of that level. 

The sheer difference in power scale between new players and the "meta" builds is so utterly absurd that they can't reasonably be called the same game, and ultimately, it seems that DE wants the final product to be closer to the former than the latter. Personally, I like it, but I can understand why other people wouldn't. In the end, though, it seems like you might need to accept that the super high level endurance runs aren't what the devs want the game to be about, and while you don't need to be happy about it, it would be good to at least try to look at it from that perspective.

  • Like 2
  • Applause 6
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Seen a few replies concerned about the change of Range Mods to weapons such as the Cassowar. With that in mind, I made the following for you to see how things look side-by-side. PLEASE BEAR (NO PUN INTENDED) IN MIND: That things may yet change. This is how it currently appears in the new Melee system.

THE SETUP:

Cassowar
- Prime Reach 7/10 (120% on Public / +2.9 on Dev Build)
- Stance Mod
- No other Mods or Damage / Range Boosters

 

Holy Sh*t, Quick Melee is back! I love you, Bear! Thank you for clearing this for me. And thank you DE team for listening to us and getting the pre-Melee 2.9 animation back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The changes to combo... I'm really not thrilled about what we're seeing here so far.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like the current combo system. It's clunky and punishes using something other than your melee weapon. The Energy economy in Warframe is absolutely horrid, and the only time where channeling your precious energy was worth considering, was if you were using Life Strike.

Combo as a resource to be spent doesn't seem to offset just how much of a benefit the current combo system gives to weapon damage.

Changes to Condition Overload are a shame. I had specifically built my first Zaw (still at ~24% usage at MR27 with thousands of hours in the game) to only use attack speed, status chance, and Condition Overload to overwhelm enemy armor. IPS, Viral, Gas, Cold, and whatever damage from other weapons/abilities resulted in a really fun "flurry of blows" style attack. This is a DRASTIC Nerf to CO.

I am not convinced that DE will buff the base damage of melee weapons to an extent where we will deal anywhere close to the damage we are dealing now.

I'm not convinced by the gif showcasing range; it's not from the same position or direction, nor is it using a setup people are generally familiar with (rank 7/10 Primed Reach? Nobody intuitively knows what that feels like).

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward to adapting to all this.

Don't forget about weapons with special channeling triggers and effects though, such as Vaykor Sydon and Synoid Heliocor.

At a glance I feel like spending combo to drop bloodrush stacks is going to be a bad deal. Like heavy attack and bloodrush are directly opposed to eachother, but difficult to comment much without trying it (efficiency has been mentioned, so maybe we don't necessarily spend all of the combo?)

Edited by Verafice
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Emperor said:

Encouraging people to get creative while also limiting them is a bad choice. If you're so upset that melee is too powerful, why don't you buff primaries/secondaries to scale the same? Nerfing the only way to get high amounts of damage completely kills endurance runs. Then again, i guess we should know by now you don't actually care about your endgame/endurance players. 🙄

Agree 100%. If the new update kills melee's capability to excel in super high levels, it's a failed update. We need the new melee system to retain the effectiveness of slide and other forms of attacks in high levels. So far the new stats and changes look really bad. Why can't DE just buff guns more to match melee's power in high levels? Is nerfing the only way to "balance"? 

  • Haha 1
  • Applause 8
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As my two cents on the melee update, it looks amazing but I am going to want it in my hands with all the information in front of me before I make a real judgement on it.

I can appreciate and actually look forward to the combo-crit, spin-to-win, and CO nerfs. I feel like it opens up a lot more options for viable melee builds than just those three. (I never really liked crit melee anyway tbh. I usually built status w/ CO.)

I may have missed this, but will riven dispositions be changing with this update or at a later date?

I look forward to exploring every stance in the game again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, quick reminder to everyone: 

They HAVE said that the new melee system will also begin the process of "ripping off the band-aid" for finally fixing armor scaling. So, even moreso than otherwise, the flow and feel of the new melee system is more important than the mechanics and numbers, since the damage numbers we're dealing might very weel mean different things when all is said and done.

  • Woah 2
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

I didn't have enough Endo on my public account to max rank it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wanted to keep the test apples to apples though.

How much range does Primed Reach give on Dev build at R10? +2.9 at R7 seems like an weird number since doesn't fit at a solid +0.3 or +0.4 per rank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Pixxel_5 said:

The changes to combo... I'm really not thrilled about what we're seeing here so far.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like the current combo system. It's clunky and punishes using something other than your melee weapon. The Energy economy in Warframe is absolutely horrid, and the only time where channeling your precious energy was worth considering, was if you were using Life Strike.

Combo as a resource to be spent doesn't seem to offset just how much of a benefit the current combo system gives to weapon damage.

Changes to Condition Overload are a shame. I had specifically built my first Zaw (still at ~24% usage at MR27 with thousands of hours in the game) to only use attack speed, status chance, and Condition Overload to overwhelm enemy armor. IPS, Viral, Gas, Cold, and whatever damage from other weapons/abilities resulted in a really fun "flurry of blows" style attack. This is a DRASTIC Nerf to CO.

The nerfing to CO, Blood Rush, Maiming Strike is killing the melee system's effectiveness as we know it. It's sad DE is taking away the power of Tennos. Are we still going to be space ninjas using flashy but weak melees? Sad day. That combo is spent in one maybe powerful but SLOW heavy attack is a horrible idea. 

  • Haha 1
  • Woah 1
  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope the devs are aware of the fact that if they remove the scaling from the combo counter they should amp that dmg of the weapons up by like 3 times right ???????????
On the note of the combo counter get spent on heavy what will happen to warframe abilities that use the combo counter for their scaling dmg ( like Blade Storm or Landslide) ?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote
8 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

The nerfing to CO, Blood Rush, Maiming Strike is killing the melee system's effectiveness as we know it. It's sad DE is taking away the power of Tennos. Are we still going to be space ninjas using flashy but weak melees? Sad day. That combo is spent in one maybe powerful but SLOW heavy attack is a horrible idea. 

 

The more people constantly complain about these specific three mods being nerfed, the more everyone is proving DE's point.  The very idea that any weapon to be considered to be viable has to be centered around these mods is textbook evidence for a needed nerf.  It is game balance 101.

  • Haha 3
  • Woah 3
  • Applause 3
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

The nerfing to CO, Blood Rush, Maiming Strike is killing the melee system's effectiveness as we know it. It's sad DE is taking away the power of Tennos. Are we still going to be space ninjas using flashy but weak melees? Sad day. That combo is spent in one maybe powerful but SLOW heavy attack is a horrible idea. 

I'll assume the heavy hitting 'slow' attacks are akin to Ninja Gaiden's charge attack. Slow to charge but powerful nonetheless. Use it tactically. Now if DE can just incorporate the speed and combo possibilities in that game including aerial grabs and throws... I want my Izuna drop and Final Lotus!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come. 

Why'd you guys make this change? Now there's no point to use a status secondary with additional elements I can just solely use my redeemer. It adds more depth to the gameplay is all.

  • Upvote 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These changes look awesome. I do have a point of feedback though.

 

PLEASE DO NOT USE THE AIM BUTTON IN COMBOS. The input feedback for combos is already difficult to understand depending on the combo animations. Especially if you're using something like Berserk. I have frequently since the start of melee 2.0 been frustrated by attempting to do a combo only to end up with my gun out. It's a big input conflict that makes it especially difficult to understand how input failed to produce the combo.

 

Long press to swap to melee is a great change. Happy to see it.

Edited by k431

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, tekmansam said:

The more people constantly complain about these specific three mods being nerfed, the more everyone is proving DE's point.  The very idea that any weapon to be considered to be viable has to be centered around these mods is textbook evidence for a needed nerf.  It is game balance 101.

Balance should bring weak weapons/numbers up, not nerfing what's the best and enjoyed by so many players. It's the real game balance 101. If you want to nerf what's working, what's the best, all things will be dumped down. 

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, (PS4)Rpglover14 said:

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come. 

Why'd you guys make this change? Now there's no point to use a status secondary with additional elements I can just solely use my redeemer. It adds more depth to the gameplay is all.

This "what's the best let's nerf it down" is killing the game. 

  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...