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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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Some great ideas here with the proposed changes. Looks to be a pretty significant balance pass on melee which has been needed for a long time. 

 

I'm very curious to see how the new assassin tool works with covert lethality. 

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These sound great! 

My only feedback on simply seeing things written here is that I hope you guys can be more forthcoming with the range of a weapon and now the block radius of a weapon in the stats of each weapon.  

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1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

HOw will this effect atlas, khora, gara, etc?

I'm assuming you are referring to stat sticks. Generally none of the frames listed benefit from stat sticks in a way that would be heinously different from what we have now. Unless the stat bonuses from mods is drastically different or if rivens are nerfed.

 

However, each frame depends on the combo counter for scaling damage. Hopefully this doesn't mean the frames will suffer. 

Edited by Leqesai
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If you have to rework melee, try to remove the pre swing on glaives and change the explosion button on the Channeling/Heavy attack button. Thanks.

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There's a few factors that makes spin2win effective. Mobility: moving at unaltered speed while attacking. Range: being able to do a 360 degree attack with no drawbacks. Animation: The execution and recover animation is slight and quick; no posing nor delay after attacking. Stances: Every stance in the game have the same spin2win slide attack. Only difference is range of the weapon.

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8 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

Also, Exalted Blade used to be able to block automatically even while attacking in the past, but this has no longer been the case for the longest time. Fix for this too?

I feel like this probably isn't getting the attention it deserves, so I'm quoting it as a form of bumping his post.

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So will Hok be doing any alterations when phase 2 rolls out? I know I build my Zaws to fit the current system and really don't look forward to grinding out new materials and rep to rebuild 'em.

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4 hours ago, tekmansam said:

You say "what is best," someone else might say "what is overpowered."  Ultimately, why even have 8 mod slots if so many of them are already spoken for with every single weapon?  At that point, why not just cut the number of slots down to 5 or 6 and build those statistics in by default?  That is the reason behind these nerfs.  To open up creativity and customization in build options.  With a game full of hundreds of mods that never see the light of day, I welcome any attempt to address the issue.  Will it be perfect at launch?  No.  Will people complain?  Yes.  Will they listen?  You know they will.  People fear change so much.  They have had a misstep or two in the past, but I have a lot of faith in DE.  It will all be in a good place eventually.  Numbers will be tweaked.  Hotfixes will roll out.  Feedback will be listened to.  Everyone just needs to be the supportive and amazing community that we have always been and all will be gravy...or maple syrup--whatever.

This is total nonsense. Nerfing CO and maiming strike isn't going to suddenly open up "build creativity and customization in build options". People are just going to slot in the next best dmg mod which bring us back to square one. You can't change human nature, ppl will always try find the best setup to accomplish tasks easier

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Can you lift more than 1 enemy and juggle groups?

Does the lift status count as an actual status towards the new limit on condition overload?

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This is very nice and all, but what i really wish is they made finishers start with X instead of E so I can melee cc'd enemies instead of having to finish them all one by one.

The stances look dope af also.

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If my weapon was weaken enough to "juggle" an enemy there's a problem. Playing a game that everything basically kills 2secs no matter what you use either gun or melee it'll be pointless. The day my melee gets out beat by an arca plasmor user im 100% leaving lol. There'll be no point of using my melee over the kohm or ignis if it'll do better job of killing while people "juggle" enemies.

Edited by (PS4)Dyin-Kyo
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All seems great, but I have 2 questions and 2 suggestions.

 

Have you remove the forced aim glide due to auto blocking in the air?

Second, Does the combo counter affect NORMAL damage at all? Or ONLY Heavy attacks?

 

Can we get a way to switch to block faster? You guys did pretty well already if you removed the auto block, but maybe make holding the melee button (to switch modes) also allow an instant block while switching until its out and ready in 1-2 seconds?

Also,

Can we get some stronger enemies for this melee rework? Something that fights back? Butchers/prova prodders kinda don't do anything...

I know this is unrelated to the people doing the rework, but thing of the sound of your sword ringing as you parry. Case and point, kuva Litches are coming JUST so we can experience an enemy we can FACE and not mow over.

 

Nox, Bursa, Juggernaut, Manic, Balif, etc. ALL of these are easier to shoot than face with a blade (in fact the sepcial mechanics of the bursa and the nox demand it). But none of them are an enemy that every faction could use, an enemy that goes:

giphy.gif

and we NEED that enemy.

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And you ignore Valkyr. AGAIN. DE god damn it, She is an outdated, nearly useless melee frame and with these changes you're gonna kill her completly!

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As a melee fanatic, I dig this. Are there nerfs inbound? Probably. But anything to make the gameplay less braindead ez with melee is good by me. It was too ridiculous and the game needed some semblance of balance.

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Welp, looks like my entire playstyle’s getting revamped. I agree with some people having concerns about scaling, but I do appreciate trying to rectify the singular “spin to win” meta. Channeling was pretty useless, but its replacement looks far from it - I’ll be interested to see how this switches things up! (Also...hoof, time to build a few more melees before they get plucked from my low-mastery fingers...)

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10 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

The Return of Equipped Melee and Manual Blocking!

B l e s s

Finally, the Melee 2.9 thread from july or something can be put to bed. Bless and bless again.

Okay though, nothing's perfect though, and I do have some concerns! Nothing like 2.9 though, don't worry.

So first off, having Full Melee and manual blocking back is excellent. Thank you. My one thing I'd want back from 2.0 though, is the ability to automatically 'dequip' your melee once you're done quick melee-ing with it. Just like a menu option or something to switch back to your gun once you're done with sword. That combined with Melee On M1 as options means people can finagle with things as they want, and play like they did with 2.0 if they wanted (with new stance things and heavies!), or use the new smooth stuff.

Secondly, tactical dodging! Does tactical dodging still apply while gliding? Because a good deal of 'gofasts' involves rolling while gliding and that might jank it up a little. Not that I'd advocate for optimal movement speed to be tied to that combo of buttons but y'know. Or maybe it doesn't mess with it at all, I ain't played with it, in which case no worries. Also, do you still tactical dodge while aiming, or only while BLOCKING? It'd also be nice if you could tacdodge during an aim without dropping your aim, or keep your block up. And lastly on Tacdodging, it would be nice if it had a little sidestep or hop animation instead of the big roll, it looks kinda silly all that movement for that short a distance. I'm still waiting for a fix to that dodge speed amalgam mod to make it not reduce the distance you go. And to give it a nifty slick altered animation, like how knockdown recovery changes you standup animation.

NEXT and not a complaint more of a question, the neutral tac combo that mentions throwing the weapon, is that where the throw for things like glaives or the sledge are going, or are they sticking on a held M1? Cuz it'd be nice to be able to use those without swinging at nothing first.

Okay I can't think of anything else, looking good so far other than those few quibbles! I might be back to complain more some other time, y'know me, but I like what I see!

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Amalgam Organ Shatter. Why is it being changed? It has nothing to do with channeling. I like the charge speed increased. I did not see charge attacks being changed. So please leave it alone. I use this mod on my builds and will have to stop using it with more heavy attack damage. I love my charged attack. So again please leave it as is. 

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I do not see a point to these changes. Spinning is the best option because it allows frames who have no AoE damage to do something during missions. If you nerf that it's not so much that people will use other melee options, they will just use other frames. AoE damage in a game with so much hording is needed and can't be got rid of.

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Some of these changes look interesting. I imagine the damage increases and weapon re-balances should make up for some of the mod nerfs, especially those that helped melee scale into very high level content. 

On that note, I know it's very niche, but I would really love to have Skana Prime be a viable option. I hope you guys follow the Lato Prime route in that regard 😜

Looking forward to seeing the final product. Not stressing much about mod changes until it all launches. 🙂 

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5 hours ago, tekmansam said:

I hate to use this language, but that is an entitled way of looking at things.  Change 3 things to achieve balance, or change 100 things?  I'm afraid I can't really take that opinion seriously.

Nice, one guy can walk while ten others can't so let's break his legs as well because it's easier than to help to the others.

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