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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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"Reach / Primed Reach - long-range weapons were getting too much of a benefit"

No, DE.
Just NO.


This nerf alone to melee range is enough to make me lose all hope in the upcoming melee changes and make me want to quit Warframe altogether.
There is no way nerfing range on long-range melee weapons can be any fun, and at this point you're just forcing me to use Mesa if I want to have a moderately good time.
Not good.

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Please explain Reach/Prime Reach better. Is my Cassowar getting nerfed?

Also, are the combos being changed? I get that combo flow is being changed, but what about animations? Cause Shimmering Blight's combo animations are terrible, constantly stop-start, not flowing at all. Will that change to make them as smooth as the now dead Quick Attack, or will we be stuck with terrible combos for a while longer?

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I am so underwhelmed.

the dev workshop is a waste of an hour. where is the good stuff: 

Railjack, New War, Ember and Vauban rework.

Just 3 things and they still have not delivered after almost 2 years. Really, they are working hard?.  The Lich looks like an awful addition.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:
  • Hover Air Combo (Back + Melee while Jumping) - Holds the player in place while the combo completes, and overrides the slam attack angle to keep the action going!

Please, please change this to block+melee while jumping or something else, or at least add that input as well. We've finally gotten away from back-presses in combos only for this to appear; this completely, totally and unequivocally breaks the melee system for players who use the option toggle to melee-in-movement-direction rather than to melee-in-camera-direction. It did so before in combos as well, and usually a player like me would just accept that that one attack was going to miss and let the "selected" combo string continue in the right direction afterwards, but if this backward-facing input is the only way to cancel slam attacks for air combos it's so much worse.

Please, continue the logic of your ground combo work and make all movement inputs in the melee system direction-agnostic. This input schema is nonfunctional based on a toggle you've given players.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

. Replacing Channeling with Heavy Attacks and the ‘Lifted’ Status
Channeling will be saying its final farewells in the Melee Rework: Phase 2 update, and instead is being replaced with a new form of Heavy Attack, as well as a new Lifted status effect. As we said before, Channeling Mods will also be changed to support this new system, as well as providing a larger pool of utility to choose from in your builds.

These are the changes planned:

  • Heavy Attacks (Alt-Fire for Melee) - Heavy attacks can now occur at any time, simply by pressing the Alt-fire button while you have melee equipped or in your hand. This costs all of your Combo Counter (affected by Mods), so make sure you lay down the hurt! If you don’t have any Combo Counter active, you will use a Heavy Attack, but it will not benefit from any damage bonus from the Combo Counter. 
  • Heavy Slam Attacks (Jump + Alt-Fire for Melee) - This new Slam Attack will create a new effect on targets, known as the LIFTED STATUS. When a target is Lifted, it is held suspended in the air, allowing a player to follow up on attacks while the target is held helplessly aloft. Again, if you do not have any Combo Counter active, this will act as a Heavy Slam attack without a damage bonus, and minimal Lifting Status.

What about Glaives and gunblades?

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come. 

So while I can understand why... this is til la pretty substansive nerf.

 

 

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I'm glad to finally be getting manual blocking back, but sad to see guardian derision is losing its taunt. Was hoping to finally be about to go full tank mode with it, and the amalgam javlok mod. 😞

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The part that says "long range melee weapons were getting TOO MUCH of a benifit" is all i need to loose hope also the mod and combo changes need to have such a high percentage to even get near to current melee, honestly this seems like a change to a system that doesn't fit warframe, it seems cool i guess but also seems so slow and less efficient, also i want to resay this the mod nerfs seem major unless it litrelly goes to 1000%+, no i'm not joking 

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these changes look so bad for melee and I see just nerfs overall...

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)saharkblue said:

The part that says "long range melee weapons were getting TOO MUCH of a benifit" is all i need to loose hope also the mod and combo changes need to have such a high percentage to even get near to current melee, honestly this seems like a change to a system that doesn't fit warframe, it seems cool i guess but also seems so slow and less efficient, also i want to resay this the mod nerfs seem major unless it litrelly goes to 1000%+, no i'm not joking 

it's just form over function and I hate it e.e

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come. 

Well how the #*!% are we supposed to deal with scaling content now
Also this means low range status weapons like the ninkondi are dead in the water compared to stuff like the Cassowar , I would personally either make the cap higher at 5 or higher or outright remove it, because I don’t think that a 120% damage buff per status is gonna compensate for that lost 400x damage 

Literally just make the cap higher

especially since maiming strike got nerfed, I guess we can enjoy 2 minute kill times for stuff above level 500 or so (Also, demolysts. How in the heck do we get rid of them now, now that we lost *both* our best tools of dealing with them

Also, if primed reach is getting a fixed stat change instead, buff the range of high range weapons out the ass in advance. Because nearly nothing feels as good as stabbing an enemy in the ribs from 15m away or so. And you could argue it disincentivized using the new combos but uh, it’s highly likely that we will be using those to cover longer distances still rather than ignoring their existence 

The stance changes look good but I won’t go and lose my head over them just because either this update deals with armor scaling or it uncaps CO, just so we can deal with high level content or disruption

Edited by RWBY-WhiteRose
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A concern I have about melee 'tactical dodging' (rolling while blocking travels a shorter distance) - will this include rolls while aimgliding with melee? If so, that's going to slightly reduce mobility while in melee.

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Hopefully we will be compensated for all mod changes. Other than that, can't wait for the update.

Edit: forgot one very important, most over looked thing. There is still no mention of vertical aim of melee... Still...

Edited by Zebiko
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1 minute ago, Sannidor said:

Ok, so what EXACTLY will happen to this Riven???

VY1Imgo.jpg

Channeling efficiency will got to combo efficiency (you will spend less Combo Counter to perform Heavy Attacks), and Channel Damage becomes Heavy Attack Damage... so that thing is going to hit like a truck, and then hit often, I would assume.

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1 minute ago, Esgaron said:

Only base damage increase ? no crit or status changes ?

say goodbye to red critting or barely doing any damage with melee after these changes xd

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Manual block:

THANK YOU. Current system is fine for the transition, but given the suggested changes I am very glad we now have it so the right click isn't pulling double duty as a main melee button, but also as a 'stop using melee' button. Not 100% happy (ideally some smoother way than a weapon swap), but certainly happy enough. (Now, could we have faster weapon swaps in general? Please?)

Cancel:

Sounds great. However, there is one suggestion I'd like to make. In 2.99, a feature was added where you could pick up a combo partway after dropping it. Could something of this variety be added to slide attacks. So: First move of combo, slide attack, second move. Kind of like Bayonetta's dodge offset, but for slide attacks. I often use slide as a mobility tool mid-combo, see. 

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Hover Air Combo (Back + Melee while Jumping) - Holds the player in place while the combo completes, and overrides the slam attack angle to keep the action going!

Oh.

Hello there...

Spoiler

Image result for now I'm motivated

I suggested something vaguely like this - I'm quite glad that it may well come to fruition!

Lifted Status:

Very glad juggling wasn't just added half-heartedly. This fits Warframe's speed and fluidity much better. Being able to focus one or two targets whilst tangentially affecting others could be very useful.

I do have to ask though - are regular slam attacks (as they are now) still going to be a thing? The hover air combo implies so, but I want to check.

Combo Changes:

I know a lot of people didn't like this when they read it. But consider: melee attacks in a shooter game should always be powerful. With the Combo system, they started out far too weak. (Plus this removes one of the many multipliers. Blood rush effectively multiplied twice once you got it above 100% crit chance - Multiplying already multiplied damage)

Mods: some of these I didn't use, others are pretty clear-cut conversions. Some notes of mine though:

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Blood Rush - Will now scale differently, using a stacking multiplier based on the Combo Counter, raising (X)% per Combo Counter tier (something much easier to achieve in Phase 2). We will provide the final % pending more testing. 

Again, thank you for taking out the ludicrous scaling. Melee should behave more similarly to other weapons, not start off as a wet fish then scale to become A FRAGMENT OF THE GODS THEMSELVES WHO'S TOUCH IS SO HOLY AND WRATHFUL THAT NONE MAY SURVIVE ITS MERE PRESENCE.

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come. 

Fair. As is, this can theoretically hit, what... 700X damage multiplier?

(Remember Redeemer lovers, its base damage will likely go up to compensate)

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Maiming Strike - Changes from an additive buff to a stacking buff, but base functionality increased to a Significant % of the old version to balance the change. Final % to come soon.

Spoiler

 

Nukers never prosper. And never should.

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

10. Exalted Weapons
As expected, all melee-based Exalted Weapons will also receive the Phase 2 functionality treatment, gaining access to the combo changes. For those of you who may have missed it, Wukong’s Exalted Iron Staff has already had this functionality implemented (with the exception of the new Heavy Attacks and changes to the Slam Attacks), so if you want a preview of the Combo system, you should check out the Monkey King!

Not fully related, but if Excal ever gets a rework to deal with those beams (that really make his sword into a gun), heavy attack would be a great place to put a big old sword beam like a Getsuga Tenshou.

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

12. Selective Aim Assist
Aim assist can be a help or a hindrance depending on what type of attack you wish to perform. While the current system either applies to all or none (on or off), the new system will have more intelligence on aim assist on a per-attack basis. As a general rule under the new system, Aim Assist will be disabled for almost all attacks in the Forward and Tactical Forward Combos, and enabled for most of the Neutral and Tactical Neutral Combo attacks. Of course if you don’t wish to use aim assist at all, you can disable it from the settings menu as normal.

Sounds interesting. Not sure if I've noticed it yet though.

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

14. Lastly: Channeling 2.0 AKA “Rage Mode”
There has been a lot of discussion around this addition, and while it will not be included in the Phase 2 update, there is a lot of work being put into its application. This system is very special and we want to make sure that it is not just a cool addition, but that it has roots in Warframes lore, and a story behind it. This is something we want to implement with a lot of in-game fanfare and details will become available as progress is made.

Spoiler

Image result for now I'm motivated

 

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1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Spring-Loaded Blade - Will now proved a maximum of 3 additional stacks of Melee Range.

 You guys meant "provide" and not "proved" here, right?

 

Anyway... With regards to Exalted Weapons, will they ever get "stance" mod bonuses upon hitting maxed ranking like melee stances give melee weapons?

Here's me hoping they do... XD Can't wait to try out this new system.

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5 minutes ago, RWBY-WhiteRose said:

Well how the #*!% are we supposed to deal with scaling content now

Simple: You aren't supposed to.

DE have very clearly never designed around above level 100 enemies. Arguably they've not even designed to level 100, but that's another matter.

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This sounds extremely interesting and promising for melee gameplay. Seems most issues raised from phase 1 and that were pre-existing are getting addressed.

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Please do not remove guardian derision taunt. 

 

This is one of the few mods that changes gameplay from all dps to utility through tanking 

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On a quick-ish skim, the update looks good but what about the channeling visuals? The prime access armors have a really big appeal in those effects and it would be a shame for those to go to waste.

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