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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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Going to have to wait and see on the release of this, that base damage buff they showed on the Skana won't be nearly enough to keep melee viable for anything but star chart trash if they really nerf all of our scaling damage mods. If they go ham on CO and BR then they'll have relegated melee back to the bad old days, when you only used it for messing about and fashion. I have to think most of the people so happy to see maiming strike struck down never engage with the game beyond doing 10 waves on Hydron. I get that someone slaloming through the maps with their Atterax in missions where it's massive over kill annoys people. I just don't see a way that DE gets rid of that while still allowing melee to remain at all relevant for folks who don't spend all day in the shallow end of the pool. 

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Well first of all, the changes that are forthcoming are not that appealing in my honest opinion.

  1. I am surprised to see that DE has not taken the time to respond to players concerns regarding CO/BR/MS etc. And the ability to control or perform a Heavy Attack without losing all of your Combo Counter.
  2. The aforementioned nerfs in the thread just made me drop dead on the floor. Yes, I do prefer to play with the Meme Strike setup, not by choice however. I prefer using staves, specifically Sepfahn ones because of the looks and decent overall stat coverage. Also, as many of the other players have mentioned, the Memestrike setup provided a level of AoE Clearing and Forward momentum which no other thing in the game provided, at least not on par with it. Think of it like a ninja running for the final blow which we all have seen in movies where two ninjas are fighting and then they have this final showdown where they both just run towards each other to perform a similar memestrike attack which is like a "kill or be killed scenario". The point is, the devastating AoE damage we got was pretty much from this analogy. There are other ways to solve the problem, like Memestrike not adding into the combo counter or be affected by it after a certain point which would give players a chance to play with their weapons with the stances or choose to memestrike which could reduce it's effectiveness. That way BR and CO could work well with Combo Counter without having to be nerfed to hell, yes a miniature nerf would be welcome but don't overdo it because you would kill memestrike. The stances of staves end up giving them ridiculous amount of forward momentum or literally none, which makes memestrike much much more effective as it is in-between the said stances and best of all, its not stance dependent.
  3. The critical chance changes being done to BR just make it really seem like a massive nerf, now we would have to decide whether we build our weapons with a really good chunk of Critical Chance to make BR effective or not, is really making the Hybrid builds suffer which were the GO-TO setup for Endgame/Endurance runs.
  4. The change to CO, come on, now that's just right out ridiculous. You nerf the one thing that made status a usable source for damage. Now we really have to end up choosing one over the other essentially making every hybrid or status build dead. Yes the damage was insane, but that is to be expected if you are thinking from the perspective of Endurance Runs and veterans who would rather spend hours in a single mission with their buddies to make something out of the run rather than just hard ass grind everything by repeating the mission endless number of times with no form of competition from the so-called hordes of enemies which brings me to my next point.
  5. We are being attacked by multiple enemies, not a single enemy at any given point in time (excluding bosses, which also potentially spawn their underlings for messing up things further and the lifting status effect won't do jack to them because of their immunity), so why would you try to show-case a lifting status effect setup where we are not supposed to be worried about 1 enemy but rather hordes of them.

Coming from a game like Neverwinter where developers empowered stuff to make money for years by creating flavor of the month (yes, on a monthly basis), by nerfing and buffing/breaking mechanics of other classes, led to their downfall. Finally, they destroyed the game by completely reworking the Combat system making a top-tier fast paced game work like League of Legends level of slow and destroying, yes by destroying builds by completely messing up the separation of feats, etc. The game is nearly dead now. And I honestly see the same happening here with the new combat system which is focused on a per-enemy basis rather than taking into account the fact that the game sends 20+ enemies at once rather than one.

The developers here are trying to essentially start from ground up but without looking at what they currently have. The only way this works is if you take down the servers and the game for a few months and REWORK everything at once, because I am pretty sure most of us are like "what in God's name is DE doing?" because from the looks of it, we can see the blankness on your faces as well.

Thanks for taking the time to read my long post and to be honest, I didn't come here to bash the developers but rather talk some sense into them to see and not be blind to what will happen because of these changes - The Ripple Effect.

Sincerely,

.Unforgotten.#9969 

Edited by .Unforgotten.
Fixed some spelling mistakes!
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Can we get a list of MR changes? I was SUPER PO'ed to have Atmos, Braton Prime, etc etc basically a LOT of weapons in my foundry ready to build but I hadn't gotten to it, and suddenly the next day I logged in, I couldn't build any of it because the MR shot through the roof with no warning!! 😠

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So ... Аre you going to replace one still-born mechanics (Channeling) with another (Heavy Attacks)? It's just that it’s not clear why the player will use the “new” Heavy Attacks if their use resets the combo counter and negates the work of the Blood Rush?

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Is it possible for you guys to do something along the lines of "if an enemy within 10m of you and inside the reticle, you lunge forward to strike that enemy"? Like Excalibur's and Atlas' 1s? Targets the enemy within range and rushes forward to strike them? It would make using melee alot easier then spamming the close-in combo in my opinion.

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Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects, however damage is being increased from 60% to a higher percent to balance the change. Final % to come

I think this change is not good and will not accomplish what you intended to do. My though process on this is that you want to eliminate stat sticks,

Spoiler

like a grakata putting 5 procs on the target in a split second, then using a CO melee on it for a huge multiplier.

But the problem is that status melee weapons are going to become way worse compared to crit melee. If the final % is too low, there's you answer. If it is going to be high enough then we will just put CO on pure crit weapons and no other status mods and use a stat stick like we used to. That way we get the best of both worlds.

Proposed change is to make it so only melee applied statuses count for CO, or make it so we get  CO stacks only when melee statuses proc. That should keep status melee weapons relevant (vs crit) and eliminate stat sticks as intended. 

Another thing to point out is that with the seemingly huge nerf to CO, you will want the rebalance the giant bullet sponges that are the demolishers.

Edited by alenkiss

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vor 1 Minute schrieb alenkiss:

But the problem is that status melee weapons are going to become way worse compared to crit melee. If the final % is too low, there's you answer. If it is going to be high enough then we will just put CO on pure crit weapons and no other status mods and use a stat stick like we used to. That way we get the best of both worlds.

Proposed change is to make it so only melee applied statuses count for CO, or make it so we get  CO stacks only when melee statuses proc. That should keep status melee weapons relevant. 

Another thing to point out is that with the seemingly huge nerf to CO, you will want the rebalance the giant bullet sponges that are the demolishers.

they wont. pure status is already more than just viable even with only 2-3 proccs on an enemy and without help from another weapon or frame prior to it. ppl just have to try and see for themselves instead of always following the hype and copy what they think is the neccessary "meta".

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The return of EQUIPPED MELEE AND MANUAL BLOCKING??!??!! THIS IS NEWS!!! REINSTALLING!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!

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17 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

they wont. pure status is already more than just viable even with only 2-3 proccs on an enemy and without help from another weapon or frame prior to it. ppl just have to try and see for themselves instead of always following the hype and copy what they think is the neccessary "meta".

So u believe a pure status weapon that procs 5-6procs should get the same benefits of condition overload as a weapon that just proccing basically ips? The condition overload changes purely a buff to the weapons with lower procs instead of rewarding the weapon with more procs. 

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23 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

they wont. pure status is already more than just viable even with only 2-3 proccs on an enemy and without help from another weapon or frame prior to it. ppl just have to try and see for themselves instead of always following the hype and copy what they think is the neccessary "meta".

I have a rapier kripath zaw 14% cc 32% sc 2.2x cd at base can proc 6 different elements.  Destreza p 24% cc 18% sc 3x cd can reap the same benefits as me from just proccing basically ips from condition overload with the new changes. Its definitely not fair to the weapons that focus on status

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vor 19 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Dyin-Kyo:

So u believe a pure status weapon that procs 5-6procs should get the same benefits of condition overload as a weapon that just proccing basically ips? The condition overload changes purely a buff to the weapons with lower procs instead of rewarding the weapon with more procs. 

its not, u will have more damage faster but the max damage cap is lower. realistically u will have waaaaay to much damage with the named combinations and in realistic content enemies dont last long enough to actually require the damage u dish. usually u will procc 3-4 max and the enemy is dead since u have something called procc priority. on a regular weapon u have 3x IPS +1-2 elementals depending on how u mod and mostly u will procc one and the same more than just once so in total u will realistically have 3-4 different proccs on an enemy when it dies. the only real nerf is to combinations which include help from a 2ndary for example that proccs before u actually attack. most ppl use a high range melee weapon only since preproccing with a 2ndary is often limited in AoE. a melee on its own will not procc all of the possible status effects before the enemy dies. i run my own tests against lv 130s and a good status melee kills them way too fast that u could procc every single element on them.

u should not forget that each time u procc corr for example u automatically deal more damage. condition overload alone is not the reason why high status melee is great. lacera has only 2 dmg types on my build and kills faster than many hybrid weapons or others with multiple dmg types on them. at max with corr/blast its 3 CO instances on lacera and i dont even use blast on it so it 2 for my build and it still shreds them easily. dont tell me now evaporating 130s doesnt suffice for average gameplay because most ppl hardly ever suprass that level. the only content where it might have a value is arbis and even then 130 is not really the limit of what such a weapon can manage on its own.

now lets also not forget how broken COs math is, its not on blood rush level but its still silly. we were also very fine before CO release so having it grant less stacks but more dmg per stack is not a big deal unless u really think those huge pointless numbers u can achieve with it actually mean something.

Edited by Xydeth
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1 hour ago, -MElHiOR- said:

So ... Аre you going to replace one still-born mechanics (Channeling) with another (Heavy Attacks)? It's just that it’s not clear why the player will use the “new” Heavy Attacks if their use resets the combo counter and negates the work of the Blood Rush?

Because they're making "combo" extremely easier to gain, even without factoring in blocking now building combo as well.
It's a whole new kind of system, seemingly not based on number of hits, seeing as stronger stance hits will generate more "combo".
Heavy attacks will also deal 4x damage in a large area at base combo, increasing even further when beyond the base "combo" counter amount.

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23 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

its not, u will have more damage faster but the max damage cap is lower. realistically u will have waaaaay to much damage with the named combinations and in realistic content enemies dont last long enough to actually require the damage u dish. usually u will procc 3-4 max and the enemy is dead since u have something called procc priority. on a regular weapon u have 3x IPS +1-2 elementals depending on how u mod and mostly u will procc one and the same more than just once so in total u will realistically have 3-4 different proccs on an enemy when it dies. the only real nerf is to combinations which include help from a 2ndary for example that proccs before u actually attack. most ppl use a high range melee weapon only since preproccing with a 2ndary is often limited in AoE. a melee on its own will not procc all of the possible status effects before the enemy dies. i run my own tests against lv 130s and a good status melee kills them way too fast that u could procc every single element on them.

u should not forget that each time u procc corr for example u automatically deal more damage. condition overload alone is not the reason why high status melee is great. lacera has only 2 dmg types on my build and kills faster than many hybrid weapons or others with multiple dmg types on them. at max with corr/blast its 3 CO instances on lacera and i dont even use blast on it so it 2 for my build and it still shreds them easily. dont tell me now evaporating 130s doesnt suffice for average gameplay because most ppl hardly ever suprass that level. the only content where it might have a value is arbis and even then 130 is not really the limit of what such a weapon can manage on its own.

now lets also not forget how broken COs math is, its not on blood rush level but its still silly. we were also very fine before CO release so having it grant less stacks but more dmg per stack is not a big deal unless u really think those huge pointless numbers u can achieve with it actually mean something.

You are definitely crazy. My weapon easily procs 5-6procs. You not adding into account forced procs. Most weapons can easily proc 3 procs. Meaning the weapons that have those extra procs is worthless. This condition overload changes will push ppl towards a whole new meta. Mainly towards the super hybrids like gram p tipedo p and such. 

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21 минуту назад, GreyEnneract сказал:

Because they're making "combo" extremely easier to gain, even without factoring in blocking now building combo as well.
It's a whole new kind of system, seemingly not based on number of hits, seeing as stronger stance hits will generate more "combo".
Heavy attacks will also deal 4x damage in a large area at base combo, increasing even further when beyond the base "combo" counter amount.

Welp... Update is coming... We`ll see what`s going on with melee.

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On 2019-10-18 at 12:58 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Greetings, Close-Combat Tenno!
 
This rather lengthy Dev Workshop will cover the overall progression with our Melee Rework and some of the changes that you can expect to see when Phase 2 is released in Update 26. Update 26 brings change to Warframe - it iterates on the game and Melee is no exception. For months Phase 1 has been in your hands, and it’s time for Phase 2. What follows is a detailed overview of our design direction and intentions with this new Phase. 

We want you to know how your use of melee and feedback on the systems have helped form Phase 2, and how some changes are included to allow for a more cohesive Melee experience. Our tools made Spin attacks optimal at the cost of the more interesting Melee system, and we’re trying to rectify that overall. 

Previously we made several changes to the Melee system (as detailed in the Melee Rework Phase 1 Dev Workshop thread) including:

  • Introducing a new quick-melee attack
  • Full VFX overhaul on elemental damage types
  • Aimed Slam Attacks instead of impacting directly below an airborne player. 

While select changes are to be rolled back (yes - see below before you react), the rest of the system served as a good foundation for this much more expansive Phase 2.

Please bear in mind that these changes are not set in stone, and some aspects of the new Melee system will be tweaked during the usual QA process. There are some more features being added later on, introduced in Melee Rework Phase 3 at a later date.
 
So what is covered in Melee Update Phase 2?

THE GAMEPLAY
   1 ) The Return of Equipped Melee and Manual Blocking!
   2 ) Dodge Cancelling and Tactical Dodging
THE COMBOS
   3 ) Stance Changes, Combos and You!
   4 ) Smoother Combo Transitions
   5 ) Combo Counter Rework
THE TOOLS
   6 ) Changes to Slam Attacks
   7 ) Goodbye Channeling, Hello Heavy Attacks and Lifting!
   8 ) Weapon Stats, Mastery Limits and General Melee Changes
   9 ) Mod Rebalancing / Functionality
   10) Exalted Weapons
   11) The Screens: Arsenal Changes
THE TECHNICAL BITS
   12) Aim Assist
   13) Sticky Fingers when Equipping Melee!
THE FUTURE
   14) Channelling 2.0 AKA “Rage Mode” and Future Plans!

As you can probably tell, this Dev workshop is going to be a bit of a lengthy one, so make sure you sit comfortably, drink a nice cup of Greedy Milk and get ready to read all about how you can better turn your enemies into salsa with your favorite melee weapon!

THE GAMEPLAY

1. Equipping Melee and Manual Blocking!
One of the bigger changes added to the Melee Rework: Phase 1 was the addition of fluid swapping between melee and Primary / Secondary Weapons. However, some players preferred the ability to manually block, making some of their builds less easy to manage. While we restored manual blocking for players playing ‘sword alone’, it wasn’t quite the same. 
 
The good news is that both functions are back! Holding the weapon swap button will equip melee fully again, and the aim button will manually block when in this mode. Holding the Weapon Swap button while Exalted Melee is in play will also lock you into Exalted Melee mode! 

Check out a clip of this in action from the Devstream! 

 

We also have redesigned the utility of blocking: Blocking will now prevent 100% of damage,  with a blocking angle that is dependent on the melee weapon equipped. All successful Blocks will also add to the new Combo Counter!

BlockingAngleDiagram.png

In the above example, sword and shield weapons (such as the Silva & Aegis) have a blocking angle of 70 degrees, centered on the front of the player, where as a dagger weapon (such as the Dark Dagger) will only have a blocking angle of 45 degrees. (Previously all weapons had a locked blocking angle of 45 degrees upon the introduction of Auto Blocking.) 

2. Dodge Cancel and Tactical Dodging
One of the older and larger complaints of the melee combo system has been the animation locks. Completing 7 step combos feels great, but the animations completely lock you into the movements. We are introducing two new ways to put more control in your hands:

  • Dodge Cancel - Allows a player to activate a dodge any time during a melee attack to end the combo immediately and dodge out of the way.  
  • Tactical Dodging - Dodging while blocking now performs this Tactical Dodge, keeping the distance short, and allowing you to remain within melee range. This is an effort to not break the flow of combat after cancelling out of an attack, but also if you need to make a quick escape!

Here is a clip of Dodge Cancel and Tactical Dodge in action! 

 

 

Bear in mind, DE BEAR you are the savior of Warframe. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I saw what you did there with your name lol.

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42 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

its not, u will have more damage faster but the max damage cap is lower. realistically u will have waaaaay to much damage with the named combinations and in realistic content enemies dont last long enough to actually require the damage u dish. usually u will procc 3-4 max and the enemy is dead since u have something called procc priority. on a regular weapon u have 3x IPS +1-2 elementals depending on how u mod and mostly u will procc one and the same more than just once so in total u will realistically have 3-4 different proccs on an enemy when it dies. the only real nerf is to combinations which include help from a 2ndary for example that proccs before u actually attack. most ppl use a high range melee weapon only since preproccing with a 2ndary is often limited in AoE. a melee on its own will not procc all of the possible status effects before the enemy dies. i run my own tests against lv 130s and a good status melee kills them way too fast that u could procc every single element on them.

u should not forget that each time u procc corr for example u automatically deal more damage. condition overload alone is not the reason why high status melee is great. lacera has only 2 dmg types on my build and kills faster than many hybrid weapons or others with multiple dmg types on them. at max with corr/blast its 3 CO instances on lacera and i dont even use blast on it so it 2 for my build and it still shreds them easily. dont tell me now evaporating 130s doesnt suffice for average gameplay because most ppl hardly ever suprass that level. the only content where it might have a value is arbis and even then 130 is not really the limit of what such a weapon can manage on its own.

now lets also not forget how broken COs math is, its not on blood rush level but its still silly. we were also very fine before CO release so having it grant less stacks but more dmg per stack is not a big deal unless u really think those huge pointless numbers u can achieve with it actually mean something.

Like i said earlier if they going to nerf it nerf it. But capping at 3 isnt the way to do it.

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Anyway, it doesn't means that we can get the old quick melee, is it?

For now it is disgusting to use the melee weapon because of that and I was stand aside melee weapons at all for a half of a year(I want to abandon the melee weapons earlier but the Wolf forces me to equip a Redeemer, and after the end of Wolf I can throw them away gladly). It is annoying as hell to be fully equip the melee weapon even if what I want is just one swing and back to the ranged weapon smoothly.

I just want to claim the old way - 'the melee system' of now is no more than a mess that stops the flow of battle.

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22 hours ago, HolySeraphin said:

Actually, if I understood it right the're buffing Weeping Wounds. Currently it stacks and gets 45% bonus status chance for each stack. Now it will get 60% status chance per stack at max level. What they meant is that the mod, at max rank, will give you 60% for each stack.

Maiming Strike is too OP for weapons with low crit chance. It is one of the few mods that stacks additively and 90% turns every weapon into a crit one, but it restricts you to one of the most boring gameplays EVER; sliding and spinning nonstop. I saw this nerf comming years ago.

I will wait for the numbers on Condition Overload, but I think it scales too much when you use it with a Primary or secondary to get 9+ status, or +540% damage. It is OP because it is calculated over your final damage, instead of the base damage like Pressure Point. You're essentially getting a 10x primed banned mod in just 2-3 attacks, or a 5.4+ crit multipplier, which combined with the effects of the procs themselves, makes it something like the Tigris Prime: high damage and many procs.

Ah I see, in that case Weeping Wounds is probably fine.

Sorry, I think you may have missed what I'm trying to say. I don't care if it's nerfed I'm not saying "Leave Maiming Strike & Blood RushALONE!". I think it needs changes but I think it doesn't need to be turned into just another plain white slice of bread in the loaf. It is OP, it's one of the only ways building up a combo meter ever felt worthwhile though too. But this OP power with combo meter is exclusively because Blood Rush & Maiming Strike combine in a bizarre way. That being Blood Rush multiplying on top of maiming strike. If maiming strike was additive after Blood Rush instead, it wouldn't be OP at all. Not for how hard it is to get or just as a mod. Strong but not OP. There's no reason it's too OP if it worked properly.
It doesn't restrict anybody to anything either. I didn't have this mod for more than a year while it was out. When I got it, nothing changed for how I used melee only how often. Because slide attacks are hands down the best melee in game, regardless of you mod setup. Slam attacks are alright they're meh for damage and the downtime between attacks though aiming them has massively improved their usefulness.
The "combo" of repeating a singe button is just flashy animations. They lock your movement too. I think this playstyle is far more boring. But this rework will change all of that so that's all going to be good. Hopefully. Certain elements do look concernedly slow. We'll see, in any case I think it'd be fixable with revisions over time it could become great.
Anyway all this to say slide attacks with the interactions between maiming strike and Blood Rush fixed it would be really quite fine. If it's really that troubling that it MUST be nerfed, nerf the flat Crit buff to 60% then. But I honestly don't think it'll need it with the damage applied as I suggested. It's not like we can't have a mod that adds a flat crit bonus of 100 to heavy attacks. In fact that's probably more along the lines of what's needed. I guess as long as the combo bonus mods and system work out it might not need a mod like that.

It scales too much? Hard to figure out what to say about that, other than I strongly disagree with the approach to the problem. Rather than drop the skill ceiling why not just require the mod to need the skill to setup. Given you have to set it up at all makes it need the high damage return to be relevant in the first place. Getting 9 status on an enemy is not really practical in the first place. It's not like you can just spam your melee to get it (which is what we would get out of the 3 status limit change). The only time you would bother setting that up is when you're fighting like level 200+ enemies anyway. Any other scenario you're just going to kill them with any other available option. If it's desperate for a nerf make it 45% instead of 60%. This mod can be extremely strong but it's not automatic.

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Dyin-Kyo:

Like i said earlier if they going to nerf it nerf it. But capping at 3 isnt the way to do it.

there is an edit option dude. dont call others crazy when u post anew for every single sentence.

im not taking forced proccs into account because not every stance has them and u can still procc twice all the same. doesnt change a whole lot, u wont need all that damage. ur nitpicky because in theory numbers will be lower but u will never require the max cap of instances CO provides unless ur one of the very nieche endurance runners.

did u actually read everything i wrote ? i guess not...

vor 35 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Dyin-Kyo:

This condition overload changes will push ppl towards a whole new meta. Mainly towards the super hybrids like gram p tipedo p and such. 

is this a joke ? if anything changes the "meta" its the melee overhaul as a whole and thats a good thing.

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17 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

there is an edit option dude. dont call others crazy when u post anew for every single sentence.

im not taking forced proccs into account because not every stance has them and u can still procc twice all the same. doesnt change a whole lot, u wont need all that damage. ur nitpicky because in theory numbers will be lower but u will never require the max cap of instances CO provides unless ur one of the very nieche endurance runners.

did u actually read everything i wrote ? i guess not...

is this a joke ? if anything changes the "meta" its the melee overhaul as a whole and thats a good thing.

It'll become more of a concentrated meta. Favoriting super crit hybrid weapons than can easily get 3 procs. Destreza p, tipedo p gram p, atterax, and such. There will be little to no reason to use a status heavy weapon if basically a super crit weapon can get the same benefits easily

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

It'll become more of a concentrated meta. Favoriting super crit hybrid weapons than can easily get 3 procs. Destreza p, tipedo p gram p, atterax, and such. There will be little to no reason to use a status heavy weapon if basically a super crit weapon can get the same benefits easily

I see this more as a problem of most procs in and of themselves not being powerful enough.
If they were, the 6 procs in your examples would be the bonus of a high status chance weapon.
But currently: Cold, Toxin, Electric, Gas, Blast, Magnetic, Radiation, Impact, Puncture, (and Void) aren't great and don't scale.
Honestly the Heat Proc buff coming in the next update is nearly as important as this melee rework, and is a step in the right direction.
 

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1 minute ago, GreyEnneract said:

I see this more as a problem of most procs in and of themselves not being powerful enough.
If they were, the 6 procs in your examples would be the bonus of a high status chance weapon.
But currently: Cold, Toxin, Electric, Gas, Blast, Magnetic, Radiation, Impact, Puncture, (and Void) aren't great and don't scale.
Honestly the Heat Proc buff coming in the next update is nearly as important as this melee rework, and is a step in the right direction.
 

Ok lets look at destreza vs endura.So u believe  the destreza that's going to guarantee 3procs and have the crit bonus should get the same benefits as a the endura that's going to go out the way to focus on status to get 5procs to boost to match damage with the destreza?

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

Ok lets look at destreza vs endura.So u believe  the destreza that's going to guarantee 3procs and have the crit bonus should get the same benefits as a the endura that's going to go out the way to focus on status to get 5procs to boost to match damage with the destreza?

I can't look at any current weapons, as their crit and status chances are also being looked over. Their stance modifiers are as well.

From what we know so far, a crit weapon will still have to use BR, and a status weapon will have to use Weeping Wounds.
Stances that force procs just allow status weapons to cover even more ground. Which is why currently no sane rapier user uses the Endura or the Destreza Prime, they use the Kripath.
Hybrids will have to use both BR and WW, and take up more slots.
If the hybrids' base %'s are higher than the status/crit focused weapons, then that just comes down to weapon and MR balance, and would be a separate issue.

 

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2 minutes ago, GreyEnneract said:

I can't look at any current weapons, as their crit and status chances are also being looked over. Their stance modifiers are as well.

From what we know so far, a crit weapon will still have to use BR, and a status weapon will have to use Weeping Wounds.
Stances that force procs just allow status weapons to cover even more ground. Which is why currently no sane rapier user uses the Endura or the Destreza Prime, they use the Kripath.
Hybrids will have to use both BR and WW, and take up more slots.
If the hybrids' base %'s are higher than the status/crit focused weapons, then that just comes down to weapon and MR balance, and would be a separate issue.

 

Obviously you aren't understanding anything. Ok destreza p will be insanely better than a kripath after these changes. A red critting weapon that have a 3x cd will reach max condition overload procs at 3 with a kripath zaw that have 6 different status on it. Is that fair?

  • Haha 1

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On 2019-10-19 at 1:59 AM, tekmansam said:

I understand the loss you feel at the investment you have put into developing your builds and playstyles, but surely some part of you knew that spin to win might someday go the way of coptering?  Any and all investments you made you had to have known someday this might happen.

Would be less of a problem if the P2W elements aka Riven + R10 Prime mods, where not as strong as they are now or not as expansive. If you spend 1-10k plat on a riven mod for your OP/Power dream, its ofc more upsetting if this gets nerfed compared to a game where you cant buy power via money. In PoE/Destiny 2 power nerf's can't be tied to some $ value, so its much easier to argue for nerf's for balance reasons.

Edited by AndyPandyyy

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