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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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sigh still wont tell us the % of blood ruch huh [meaning there nerfing it in to uselessness] .i can tell you how to fix ur problems 1 STOP NURFING 2 add a easy and hard mode to game modes [eso, arbi] 3 make 4 new bosses 1 for each faction and what they drop is an idem that gives a permanent stat bosst to weapons or warframe 10% 20%,30% THAT WAY PPL CAN BUILT WHAT THEY WANT HOW THey WANT IT TO BE. no more nurfing riven dis or weapons[look at that i save you time effort and money and give you susainable content fixed power creep and armor scaling at the same time]4 take out all trash reward from drop pool [sorties] sorties should have 1 of the dif rinen types and the forma should be an umbra the rest of the drops r trash and should be gotn from mobs

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I love the progress we are making! Go Team!

That being said, I am concerned about the fluidity that the addition from Melee Phase 1 brought: auto-equipping melee weapons on melee input. I was able to key-bind my melee to my right bumper (Xbox Player) so that I could switch between firing and melee without losing the ability to move my warframe and camera at the same time. This allowed me to bullet jump, aim glide and fire from the air (or wall run) and ground slam with seamless movement of the camera. After the ground slam animation was activated, and locked in, I am able to scope out where my next target is. 

Im worried that the reintroduction of holding the melee input will cause a delay in switching between melee and range attacks. If I want to quick melee and move on this is fine, but if I want to use the quick melee as a transition into a full melee equip I'm worried this isn't and option. If I want to melee equip I have to hold the input. Does this result in a longer animation? Im sure this is a classic: play it and you will find a way. You guys always do a great job.

Secondly: I have always been confused by the complaints about the channeling mechanic. I would have assumed that players who are 'end game' have found ways to make it so that they are not only full on energy, but there are still orbs all over the ground. In my experience this is generally the case, and I found that by using the excess energy in my pool to cause more damage (and thus kill ads, faster) this created a cyclical relationship with my energy pool, my melee damage (exacerbated by the channeling multiplier and combo counter) and the energy being dropped from ads. This seemed like a beautiful solution to scaling enemies and the fall off of ability damage. 

I love the additions made with 2.0 however, losing the choice to use the access of resources around you to deal more damage in critical situations seems like a negative. Perhaps a way to make an already amazing system incorporate the things we all love, without losing out on this under appreciated mechanic, is to incorporate an "attack" stance and a "defense" stance while in full melee equip; interchanging the ability to block and channel for additional melee damage. 

Lastly, If I could wish on a star this would be it:

I would love to see Melee 3.0 and Focus 3.0 be integrated. Once all of Focus 2.0 is mastered, players unlock "school mastery" enabling them to unbind other nodes (in addition to the ones currently as an option) and make their own ideal attributes that they would utilize [limited by the power and function of the ability]. This additional mode would bring about the utilization of a "void weapon" [dependent on which school you used as your 'base' for your custom tree (hammer, sword, whip, dagger, fists,etc.)]. Perhaps this brings about additional opportunities for lore and utilization of the Tenno in combat, as the void blast is rather weak at the moment (maybe there is a meter that can be used to summon your "void weapon"). 

I would love to see lifted melee combos where transference can be used during the combo to use your operator and your "void weapon" as a ' Tenno hero moment' on the lifted enemy. This maybe could keep enemies lifted even longer and create a focus bonus (kinda like a mini focus orb to regenerate the void weapon meter). The combo is ended with transference again to end the 'Tenno hero moment' where players could seamlessly re-enter combat.

Love this game. Love the team. 

VEN3REUM - "Vodivus"Clan

 

Edited by (XB1)VEN3REUM

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Haven't played the game, logged in, or posted a few years. But these changes got me excited.

Side note. The changes coming to range enhancements that will make long weapons simply Pretty Good, rather than Mindlessly And Safely Kill The Entire Room Good, makes me happy. It will be good for the health of the game and it's likely to pull melee away from the meta overcentralization of polearms, greatswords and whips, without taking their place away completely.

The tears of the people whining about that change bring me intense satisfaction. I've never had a bigger grin on my face than reading the comments of these people saying they're going to QUIT THE GAME because of nerfs a meta that holds the game back from being an interesting action game.

No really, I'm popping a wine bottle when I'm done writing this. Cheers to the remaining losers.

Edited by Druidx
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the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

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hace 34 minutos, A.R.X.A dijo:

the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

Keep in mind  not all players think like you... many will love it while others will dissagree.. wait for test to give the last word anyway.
Also Path of Exile ? really?.. you know how anoying is start again then again then again each time they release a new content...

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2 hours ago, A.R.X.A said:

the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

Isn't the current point of endgame to simply go in an endless match until you simply can't any longer? For the challenge! Because it's not like any end-game player needs to be farming something on one match for 6+ hours at a time. So what's the problem with nerfing melee a bit to bring that "challenge zone" within maybe just 5 hours on endless, instead of 6? You really expect the rest of us to give a damn that you hate getting what you want faster?

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On 2019-10-28 at 5:04 PM, Ceryk said:

Always hilarious to see how grossly overblown the response to these things are. Legitimately needed balancing, exploit fixes, and things that ultimately result in fairly minor changes to the game are so often met with laughably oversized outrage and Chicken Little Syndrome.

This cannot be restated hard enough, so I'm just going to quote it.

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was the catchmoon and melee op yes SO #*!%N WHAT is this a pvp game no thin whats it matter to anyone that that player have op S#&$ play how you want just keep your hands off my stuff

 

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Hi @[DE]Bear first of all...i still don't understand why would you shut down threads that have derailing comments when you can just ban, warn or report the ones who derail in the first place

 

 

Anyway...

Any news about sparring stances changes? Will they have different animations and attacks?

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19 hours ago, Druidx said:

Haven't played the game, logged in, or posted a few years. But these changes got me excited.

Side note. The changes coming to range enhancements that will make long weapons simply Pretty Good, rather than Mindlessly And Safely Kill The Entire Room Good, makes me happy. It will be good for the health of the game and it's likely to pull melee away from the meta overcentralization of polearms, greatswords and whips, without taking their place away completely.

The tears of the people whining about that change bring me intense satisfaction. I've never had a bigger grin on my face than reading the comments of these people saying they're going to QUIT THE GAME because of nerfs a meta that holds the game back from being an interesting action game.

No really, I'm popping a wine bottle when I'm done writing this. Cheers to the remaining losers.

To be fair some of these are legitimate concerns ie Naramon becoming completely useless. Or life strike being harder to utilize.

Still goin a bit overboard, the people whining and people like you who only instigate the situation. If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

To be fair some of these are legitimate concerns ie Naramon becoming completely useless. Or life strike being harder to utilize.

Still goin a bit overboard, the people whining and people like you who only instigate the situation. If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem.

"People" like me? Are part of what problem, exactly? And in what way am I part of this, "problem"?

"If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem." is an obnoxious "everyone get on my side" scrap of logic that just polarizing for the sake polarizing. No different from "If you're not with us, you're against us."  It's a way to pretend to be a peaceful, neutral party with nothing to gain or lose, with only the best intentions for everyone in mind.

In short, no u.

Regardless, yeah, the state of the game is going to change sometimes. Sometimes that's going to change things you've put time and resources in getting. I wasn't a big fan of Vazarin when the focus 2.0 hit. I don't like that Galatine Prime made my War feel pointless. But anything that decentralizes the meta and allows more diversity in productive playstyles is objectively good for the game. People holding on to braindead meta that overshadows everything else by a huge margin hold the balance of the entire game back. "They" are part of a problem, and it has nothing to do with them "not being part of a solution". But they shouldn't need to be. They should just be able to enjoy the game however they want to because the game is updated to be as good as it can be. And not everything can be buffs. That's just the practical reality of updating.

notgonnaliethough their salt is extremely satisfying. "WARFRAME DOESN'T NEED TO BE BALANCED IT'S A PVE GAME PLEASE JUST LET BROKEN STUFF BE BROKEN PLEASE IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME IS USELESS IN COMPARISON GOSH DARN I HATE THIS SO MUCH I'M GONNA QUIT PLAYING IF I CAN'T FARM AT THE OLYMPIC LEVEL".

How much of a problem can my words be if they're quitting the game anyway? ;;)))

Yeah somehow I suspect they will get over it.

Come on though, there's no reason to think Naramon is going to be "completely useless". All the other critical stats are being converted. There's no reason to think Naramon won't be converted to still serve it's purpose.

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Jump cancelling pls. In other words being able to use enemys as platforms that whould reset bullet jumping, aim glide and such

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all I can think of right now: what about the players who got Riven's with channeling boost effects? what will become of them?

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On 2019-10-30 at 2:07 PM, MSD3000 said:

Isn't the current point of endgame to simply go in an endless match until you simply can't any longer? For the challenge! Because it's not like any end-game player needs to be farming something on one match for 6+ hours at a time. So what's the problem with nerfing melee a bit to bring that "challenge zone" within maybe just 5 hours on endless, instead of 6? You really expect the rest of us to give a damn that you hate getting what you want faster?

Brillant argument. Thx 🙂

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9 hours ago, Druidx said:

"People" like me? Are part of what problem, exactly? And in what way am I part of this, "problem"?

"If you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem." is an obnoxious "everyone get on my side" scrap of logic that just polarizing for the sake polarizing. No different from "If you're not with us, you're against us."  It's a way to pretend to be a peaceful, neutral party with nothing to gain or lose, with only the best intentions for everyone in mind.

In short, no u.

Regardless, yeah, the state of the game is going to change sometimes. Sometimes that's going to change things you've put time and resources in getting. I wasn't a big fan of Vazarin when the focus 2.0 hit. I don't like that Galatine Prime made my War feel pointless. But anything that decentralizes the meta and allows more diversity in productive playstyles is objectively good for the game. People holding on to braindead meta that overshadows everything else by a huge margin hold the balance of the entire game back. "They" are part of a problem, and it has nothing to do with them "not being part of a solution". But they shouldn't need to be. They should just be able to enjoy the game however they want to because the game is updated to be as good as it can be. And not everything can be buffs. That's just the practical reality of updating.

notgonnaliethough their salt is extremely satisfying. "WARFRAME DOESN'T NEED TO BE BALANCED IT'S A PVE GAME PLEASE JUST LET BROKEN STUFF BE BROKEN PLEASE IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE GAME IS USELESS IN COMPARISON GOSH DARN I HATE THIS SO MUCH I'M GONNA QUIT PLAYING IF I CAN'T FARM AT THE OLYMPIC LEVEL".

How much of a problem can my words be if they're quitting the game anyway? ;;)))

Yeah somehow I suspect they will get over it.

Come on though, there's no reason to think Naramon is going to be "completely useless". All the other critical stats are being converted. There's no reason to think Naramon won't be converted to still serve it's purpose.

Ah you dont see ypurself as a problem cause ur too high up on your horse. Lets be honest your about as annoying as the people whining. You contribute about as much as them too. What exactly are you gaining by adding to the idiocy? Have you provided any construct feedback? Yes and no. These are obviously your opinions based on knowledge and a rework you do not yet possess and thats fine. Speculation is always welcome but then the second half of your comment is basically "i like salt".  Your whole comments value is then undermined by it. It wasnt needed. All it does is instigate more problems. Again part of the problem not the solution.

 

Also you have no proof that naramon wont get left behind. I am attributing my information to the fact naramon was not mentioned on prime time but zen was. The things not said are just as important as the ones that are. Naramon, the melee centric school, was not addressed.

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On 2019-10-29 at 1:04 AM, Ceryk said:

Legitimately needed balancing, exploit fixes, and things that ultimately result in fairly minor changes to the game are so often met with laughably oversized outrage and Chicken Little Syndrome.

Look at me i don't use it so it's a minor change and everyone else is dumb because they don't play like me.

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3 hours ago, ILOHARTA said:

all I can think of right now: what about the players who got Riven's with channeling boost effects? what will become of them?

Already addressed: They will be changed to Heavy Attack boosts instead.

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53 minutes ago, She11by said:

Look at me i don't use it so it's a minor change and everyone else is dumb because they don't play like me.

Don't be a jerk because you are mad about something minor being changed. DE has changed plenty of small things I do use and not every change I agree with, but I have never once acted like an idiot that thinks it's going to ruin the entire game or thrown tantrums like a child and threatened to quit over something stupid like removing spin to win yet again or what ever ever lazy exploit people are being mad is being removed this time.

Edited by Ceryk
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On 2019-10-30 at 6:29 AM, A.R.X.A said:

the person who made these changes either:

does not play the game and only listens to tactical potato and his gang of newbie ducklings crying about melee being op

or

hates the game and wants melee players to go play other actually good games like path of exile

Have.. have you actually played a non-Cyclone melee build in PoE since Legion dropped? Because PoE's melee is clunky garbage right now and even more in need of a drastic rework than Warframe's melee.

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35 minutes ago, Ceryk said:

Don't be a jerk because you are mad about something minor being changed. DE has changed plenty of small things I do use and not every change I agree with, but I have never once acted like an idiot that thinks it's going to ruin the entire game or thrown tantrums like a child and threatened to quit over something stupid like removing spin to win yet again or what ever ever lazy exploit people are being mad is being removed this time.

This guy is a jerk, not me, i'm not laughing at people because they play differently.

For YOU it may be a minor change, for a lot of people it's not.

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