.Versailles. Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 https://streamable.com/cj3yt This video right here explains all my hate for melee 3.0 changes. The combo movements are clunky and annoyingly making me stuck to using one combo so I can constantly have movement when I melee SO NOW I AM STUCK FORCED TO USE 1 COMBO ON A STANCE. ruined my fun of 2400hrs in mission time and with U26.. I am done. And yes when you see me fling forward that from using the 1 combo that actually lets me move. I couldn't care less about the damage. It's just the combo flow. Explain this new combo rework system to me.. This is not fun at all. I have arthritis (not to sound like its the end of the world for me and boo whoooo me but..) and well now it just hurts to play with melee. Less time I have to relax in between combos. Sorry DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvorax Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 can you guys PLEASE consolidate some of the focus passives of Naramon and Zenurik. Make the current Naramon melee decay part of the combo mods....and move the heavy attack efficiency to naramon from zenurik and add in a streamline variant (because currently it is like a free reflex coil) to zenurik, which makes a FAR more sense than the current ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DG-ShadowPrime Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 51 minutes ago, Azimbee said: Condition Overload is now a viable replacement for Primed Pressure point on weapons that proc status somewhat reliably already, at the cost of having diminishing returns if both Pressure Point and Condition Overload are run. We've lost the scaling damage of Condition Overload, and only replaced a damage mod in the process. This effectively has gutted pure status weapons as a build option. However, I believe the solution should be pretty easy.Introduce some of the multiplicative scaling of Condition Overload in the form of a combo counter scaling. That way, it's a replacement for pressure point and it returns some of that scaling damage back to pure status weapons. We can potentially knock out two birds with one stone here by producing an alternative to the 'mandatory' damage mod. Pressure Point for less status inclined weapons, and Condition Overload for the adequate status based ones as an alternative. A smaller exponential buff between the number of statuses and the combo counter might be ideal. Anything is preferrable to gutting crit to put it in line with gutted status. So if an alternative solution can be found to remedy this drop in build diversity, I'm open to that. Wow a nice solution I can agree with. They should 100% make CO multiplicative attach to combo counter like Blood Rush making it up the Blood Rush for Status Weapons 53 minutes ago, Azimbee said: Heavy Attacks aren't worth their Cost There is an opportunity cost to using your Heavy Attacks. While combo scaling is easier and building combo is much easier now too, especially with faster weapons but more on that in the next section, Heavy Attacks do not seem worth it. They're not satisfying either. They're not the dressing on an otherwise technique focused update to melee. They're too weak and you would have to use them more frequently to justify the combo depletion or they'd have to be much much stronger than they already are. We have a variety of ways to fix this but allowing Heavy Attacks to scale better against Lifted enemies would be a step in the right direction, as stated above. However, there is one more suggestion I'd like to make to make the system even more cohesive. Another problem with heavy attacks is their static animation and pause to charge. I feel that heavy attacks need to better flow with a combo rather than be one static slow animation. It completely stops whatever flow you previously had to perform this one charged attack always the same direction. The first step should be addressing that. For example the Tempo Royale Bold Reprise animation for the last hit in the combo can be changed into a heavy attack, even if its one animation its still better than the current one we have now as it gives flow from going mid combo into a heavy attack you can keep both and have the current heavy as the neutral heavy. I don't see this being implemented for a while tho since alot of stances haven't been reworked into the phase 2 of melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLI7Z Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 So, now Naramon's Power Spike is worthless because heavy attacks drain all combo points. Life strike is worthless because I have to stop and do a slow heavy attack to heal myself, breaking the fluidity of going full melee for survival without the need of a "tank" frame for it. Also, going for a build for combo multiplier + life strike is just worthless because against high level enemies I have to heal myself with life strike a lot... Thank you DE, thanks a lot for completely destroying my survival melee gamestyle. After 5 years of playing, this is the worst thing you could've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCDLucario43 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 How can we activate the manually block ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAWX-UnknowName Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 il y a 16 minutes, VCDLucario43 a dit : How can we activate the manually block ? hold F to use full melee mode and then press right click mouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAWX-UnknowName Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 i'm really disapointed with sparring, i only use sparring weapons i really like it but they don't bring anything new to sparring stances i thinked they will bring new animatios for melees. Grim fury: the foward combo is exactly the same it was, they just inverted the order of the moves, instead of 3 punches,1 front kick, 1 punch and upercut now is 3 punches, 1 punch upercut and end with the front kick, and the old combos is way more cooler than now ( the holding E combo was relly badass, and i loved this stance), the only cool combos is the block + E but it deal so low damage that make you don't use it. Brutal tide: this stance only have 2 combos foward + E and block + E and, the foward combo is very clunky, and the block combos is well... fine, but old brutal tide is way more brutal than now. is sad to say that because for other weapon this new melee 3.0 is really badass, the daggers combos is awesome and then when you will see for sparring... it's bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapn655321 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 How do we Counter now? Does Parry mod still have a function? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venon23 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 On 2019-10-18 at 8:09 PM, lihimsidhe said: tl;dr: Melee 3.0 mockup All in all this rework looks pretty f**king incredible I must say. As someone I think at least slightly influenced Melee 2.x,There is only one core suggestion I have:Block Anytime, Anywhere. The Tenno either can execute a single command (single key or multi key press) to block. Allow most actions to be cancelled into blocks. Blocking always should have been a fallback action for when a Tenno finds themselves in trouble regardless of what they are doing. This is a clear example how dedicated firearm/melee modes hold back Warframe's potential. Also I can't mention blocking in a serious manner without referencing this. Imagine a combat scenario where a Tenno is highly engaged with the enemy. Suddenly, a huge attack suddenly comes barrelling towards them and they do not have time to dodge. Only block. What sounds more fun and natural to you:A) At the last moment the Tenno stops firing his/her gun and brings up their arms in the nick of time to block the attack. Perhaps timing the block could lead to parries.B) The Tenno has to stop firing their weapon, put it away, wait for their melee weapon to get pulled out, and then block. If they have the time to do this you know what they could have also done? Just about anything else in the game including moving out of the way thereby defeating the point of blocking. Being able to seamlessly use block at any time adds an amazing amount of utility to a player's toolkit. If DE did decide to implment an 'anytime, anywhere' block I would hope they reconsider blocking not always negating 100% of the damage in all cases (maybe except for parries?). A weapon having variable block cones, block %, and possibly even parry windows gives DE more stats to experiment with that make sense. Why throw this design space away needlessly? Again the rework looks f**king AMAZING. It does truly. However, until DE discards the notion of dedicated firearms/melee modes completely Warframe will always be playing 2nd fiddle to its own 1st rate potential. I say this because action legends such as Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Nier: Automota, etc, have shown such an incredible path forward by having one unified 'action combat' mode. This doesn't mean there can't be an other way but Warframe's firearm/melee modes do not seem to be an improvement over what those legends have done. Also it's worth really driving home DE could literally create the most incredible combat system known to man. However, if the enemies remain stuck as ants we crush with hammers, all this work to make combat more engaging becomes a somewhat moot point. We are still hammers crushing ants and combos and in depth combat is a distant option to nuking dumb, enfeebled enemies that literally run to their slaughter. Love you guys, the game you make, and the work you do. 🙂Update 10/31/2019: The Old Blood Can confirm that dedicated melee and firearm modes/focus on holstering are still indeed holding Warframe's combat back. Dual wielding a glaive and a single hand sidearm exemplify this the most. As in can not use heavy attack while dual wielding because heavy attacks are gated behind their own mode. Can not use heavy attacks directly from firearms. Player has to go firearms > quick melee attack to enable heavy attacks. Which again... is awkward as it sounds. Also very questionable why heavy attack needs its own key when it simply can be a charged attack. Combos sort of have universal mapping. Not all combos represent single attack focus OR AoE focus OR travel Wall attacks had their travel distance nerfed into the absolute ground. Heavy Slam Attacks FEEL very and look very good. Combo counter as a resource is very interesting and opens up opportunities for 'combo efficiency build'. However, Blood Rush + Body Count still supersedes most case uses of heavy attacks. yea my complains about this rework is also the blocking and didicated meele stance i think the moment player press "e" he should be in meele mod and can block auto or if he choses too EX: (press "e" and auto block rocket and keep his guard up [because u already in meele mode]) vs ( press "f" w8 2 sec and press 2mb [and get with the rocket in the face because it took too long]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reican Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I like the new combo system, just one hitch. I can't seem to be able to use my thrown melee weapons as I used to. I can't toss my wolf sledge anymore, did that become removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DP-HDrros Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Khora ❤️ Each whipclaw hit no longer increases the melee counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncaIroh Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Hokay... my playstyle is was heavily influenced by using covert lethality and a combo that by default will lead to a finisher. That said, I don't mind the loss of the instakill of covert lethality, that went to the parazon which is still "sort of" an instakill mainly because you have to weaken an enemy to use it. For most content my weapons will deal massive amounts of finisher damage anyway so no big deal. There is one mechanic/feature that irritated me and I noticed it as soon as I ran a spy where I usually stealth everything. Why is stealth kill/finisher bound to the USE button? it's so awkward that this is the case because before this patch, finishers were bound to melee. it becomes a little easier to just wipe people out since you don't really have to think about it and the warframe just goes into finishers as you spam melee. It's more fun. I might be blind but I don't think finishers can change their keybinding last I checked because this did irritate me and I thought, "hey it's just a keybind, right?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozurashii Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just here to chime in that I find having to main equip melee in order to block or use heavy air slams really unwieldy. It's a real drag when I have my exalted blade out, try to block, and aim instead. Thanks to everyone at DE for their hard work, tho! I'm interested to see how things change as feedback is absorbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THeMooN85 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Hey DE... we gotta talk about scythes... why you hate them so much? For Example, Stalking Fan has one combo, ONE! Even block have the same combo... you promised us that scythes will get heavy blade stances... or some new stances... so why you hate scythes so much? Same goes to Reaping Spiral... ONE COMBO, ONE ANIMATION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raposo90 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I mainly use Heavy Blades with Tempo Royale Stance, and in my opinion, this new update messed up the combos and animations It feels like Replendent Calma (before E, E, Pause, E, E,E) was split in two as the new Majestic Abandon and Replendent Calma. And the foward momentum that you had with Replendent Calma and August Mesto are gone I'm not an expert on this, but my opinion is: - Majestic Abandon should stay as E, E, E, E as before update 26 - Replendent Calma (keeping the entire combo animations as the one before update 26 and forward momentum) as Forward+E, Forward+E, Forward+E, Forward+E, Forward+E , or sometihng like Majestic Abandon (doing thefirst two moves of it) and then go with 3 times Forward+E - August Meto (keeping the entire combo animations as the one before update 26 and mobility) as Forward+Block+E, Forward+Block+E, Forward+Block+E, Forward+Block+E , or going first with Majestic Abandon (doing the first move from the combo) and then go with 3 times Forward+Block+E - and Bold Reprise as Block+E, Block+E, Block+E Right now, as of this update 26, Tempo Royale does not feel right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavingRoman Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Alright, I've done some gameplay of the new melee system as well as the changes to the mods. Lift Status Just isn't working too well. - Target just flies away after a single whack (Melee range just can't catch up) We're stuck between keeping our feet planted on the ground and flying like a G6 - Depending on the combo of the melee weapon you can find yourself being launched too far forward (Especially if you go off a ledge. You just shoot off like a rocket). Even if you can whip the camera back around quickly, you may not be able to reach them. (RIP Console players when this update reaches them) The alternative is having to stay in one position where your enemy can get knocked too far out of range or put you in a precarious spot being surrounded by enemies. Crit is the Meta - It just is. With the way Condition Overload now works, status-leaning weapons cannot hope to catch up to the might of the Blood Rush builds. There is now only one way to build them. Heavy Attacks - Slower and weaker overall than the flurry of critical hits, and spends a large chunk of your combo counter. It's just not worth using unless we can get some serious damage output in a larger range out of them. Animation Locks are - It appears they have gotten even worse than before. Animation locks are now only broken when you just roll. It is no longer done when taking aim and blocking, so it's even clumsier than it used to be. It's not a good thing. This would have been really good for PvP mechanics too. Just a couple suggestions. I know we have not yet gotten the whole melee rework yet. But I think that is the exact reason why we have these workshops. So here are a few ways to alleviate some of the problems. - Drastically improved enemy tracking: This is literally the only option that fixes both the lifting and the movement issue in one shot. Without being able to focus/target/train your aim towards the enemy like how all games of this format do, not only will make aerial even doable; but you'll also be able to put more weapons on an equal playing feel when in point blank range (Because RIP fists too) and you'll be doing consoles a favor too. - Break animation lock: We need more methods to cancel combos in case we want to break out of animation locks. So many fighting games value this because this allows players to be able to break away when they know for a fact a counter attack is coming. There is literally no downside with this, and even increases the possible margin for skill. I also urge another look at Condition overload to find a way for Crit to not be the main meta of the melee game. PS: and for the LOVE OF MAROO'S LAST BEER, please let Rhino benefit from using melee blocking when he has his iron skin on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabelias Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I have a little question SO how do i throw my zenistar in this phase 2 melee 3.0 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TamePingu Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 On 2019-11-02 at 6:01 AM, BLI7Z said: So, now Naramon's Power Spike is worthless because heavy attacks drain all combo points. Life strike is worthless because I have to stop and do a slow heavy attack to heal myself, breaking the fluidity of going full melee for survival without the need of a "tank" frame for it. Also, going for a build for combo multiplier + life strike is just worthless because against high level enemies I have to heal myself with life strike a lot... I tried Life Strike with Umbra and the only feasible way to heal with it is to do Heavy Slam attacks, but that's still a far cry away from the way it used to play. I now have to spend my combo and break up the flow of combat to heal (jump > look down > target enemy > Heavy Slam), whereas before the update I'd just toggle channeling and keep swinging. Either Heavy attacks have to change (made more fluid, better way to do a heavy attack mid combo, change its cost, etc.), or Life strike has to change. I don't get it DE, there are so many mods that are, for the lack of a better word, useless. Why not change them? A bit off topic, but seriously, you recognized the problem with primary/secondary mods, thats why we have Pexilus slots now. Not ideal but still better than leaving those mods to rot. Why not change some mods up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hopper_Orouk Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 When i told people that the melee 2.5 update is and will be bad everyone laughed at me. Well no one's laughing now It's safe to say...i think DE will pull out the same move they did before and ignore us for an entire year without fixing anything Good luck you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kiro Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I'm just here to ask how to get my Wukong to hit for red crits again. He feels dead, what was once a great stick now feels like a wet noodle compared to before. Crit feels bad now. I love the new combo system, makes it a lot easier to pull combos and such but everything that depended on combos feels nerfed (blood rush no longer allows me to even hit red crits, or even orange for that matter unless my cat throws me a buff), Condition Overload no matter what anyone says is a massive nerf considering the cap on it and, despite not even using it for months, the fact that Maiming Strike was killed (even though Scott said on a devstream that you "don't want to kill spin2win and just want to break away from the meta that broke the game) is just mind boggling. Now the Stalker Acolytes are basically useless aside from maybe Argon Scope hunts. I dunno, do the people who do these changes even play the game? I'm starting to think that, if DE's staff does play their own game, that they never leave enemies level 30 and up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kiro Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 8 hours ago, Nabelias said: I have a little question SO how do i throw my zenistar in this phase 2 melee 3.0 ? Mouse wheel has become your charged attack so that's probably it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Touha9 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Console player anxiously awaiting the update... With the new Melee changes, odd question but does the combat feel even more visceral/intense than before? Has anyone noticed any change in the dismemberment aspect? Honestly keep hoping DE decides to increase the dismemberment/gore a bit more in the future....For me it really adds to the adrenaline factor in gameplay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Noflair Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I bet that instead of really nerfing maiming strike they gonna buff the hell out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaminarion Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Hello, I'd like to add my opinion on the melee changes. Overall I loved it. Actually I only got into this game cause how ninja it feels like and melee is a huge part of that. I like that using combos is finally a thing. I can consistently use them now. A little trouble with the ADS ones though but still enjoy it. In another note, spinning attack nerf... I consider myself lucky to have prepared a few melee weapons prior to this. With rivens. Trying to use maiming playstyle now is a joke... Weapons that had almost no crit, but thanks to maiming could get above 200%, now are stuck at 100%. Damage is awful. Condition Overload is ok. Not 1 million damage but it can kill tough guys. Maiming strike went from a must have mod to a unnecessary one. Why does it feel like DE keeps 'nerfing' all the things I enjoy... TLDR: Awesome melee rework. Didn't like maiming nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon_Knight- Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I really like the changes overall. Weapons and stances feel notably more unique with the extra details of knockdowns and lifts on specific hits, along with how you can use the stance animations more fluidly. It's bit unfortunate that finisher openers are gone for weapons that had a hard time killing heavy units, but it does speed things up and keep the flow going. Input Buffer Window The buffer window for inputting the next attack is waaaaay too big. It's way too easy to accidentally throw out more animations than intended. I'd suggest making the input buffer window around 6 or 10 frames away from the end of the animation. Enough that it' still easy to mash out a combo, but few enough that you won't get stuck in a combo for quickly pressing E too many times to start an attack. Also, PLEASE add the ability to jump cancel melee attacks. Heavy Attacks Heavy attacks are cool. (I really dig the lift effect from standing heavies on swords and heavy blades, in particular.) But they aren't strong enough. It's SO CLOSE to being amazing though. A big part of the problem is that right now, it's necessary to build for them specifically to make them good, because sacrificing the whole bar of combo meter isn't worth the loss of of crit multiplier. Even if you do get one powerful shot (which isn't always enough to kill, and doesn't always crit or proc status), you're back at square one of momentum again. It's always more effective to just kill that target with regular attacks. Even if you build for it though, it still isn't especially better than just using normal stance attacks. It's still necessary to build up momentum first to get those heavy attacks hitting hard. And at the moment, they just don't hit hard enough to justify the cost and time needed to build the combo meter, even with Focus Energy and Reflex Coil making it possible to swing more than once, or with Killing Blow buffing the damage. Given that those mod slots are being used at the expense of things that could buff the weapon in general, rather than just heavy attacks, it's really underwhelming to have a heavy attack build just barely be able to keep up with a regular one. Especially with the need to use dedicated melee mode to use heavy attacks. Suggested Solutions I think it would be the most fun if heavy attacks had their own meter, separate from the combo meter. This way heavy attacks would be something that adds to all melee builds, that you could also build toward if you wanted. It would also solve the issue of it not being worth it to ever use heavy attacks, turning it into a thing you'd wanna use at every opportunity. It could allow heavy attacks to reliably make use of the combo meter's crit multiplier, giving us the option of having a weaker quick melee in exchange for a stronger dedicated melee by building for heavy attacks. If you wanna stick with it expending the combo meter, making heavy attacks use less meter per swing (or at the very least not ALL the meter) would be a necessary start to use heavy attacks outside of low level missions for fun. Having specific buffs to the heavy attack itself (higher crit chance, status chance, a hundred billion base damage, etc.) would also make it easier to build for. Heavy attack builds are kinda inconsistent right now. It crits, or it doesn't. It procs, or it doesn't. With single hits, you really feel having lower crit and status chance. RNG determines whether or not something feels like a waste of meter and time, and the consequences can be several more seconds needed to deal with a single enemy. Side Notes It can be somewhat awkward to hit lifted enemies at the moment. Especially if you aren't using a Reach mod. I dunno why, just a heads up. Nikana's Tranquil Cleave stance feels really clunky compared to the other two, mainly due to the standing E multi stab combo being awkward to use. I dunno how to solve it, but it feels weird to play with. I'm dunno if it's a glitch, but Nikana air attacks don't stagger enemies, but every other kind of weapon does. Some weapons even get knockdowns. Can we get some lockdown effect on Nikana air attacks? Dual Daggers's Gnashing Payara standing E combo is awful. The third hit can't hit, because the second hit lifts the enemy away. So you just slash the air and wait for it to be over, and the wasted time makes it hard. Makes it necessary to roll cancel out of and reorient on the target to get a finisher stab on the downed enemy. I'd be happy if the third attack was just deleted and nothing else was changed. Is it possible to improve the consistency of downed finisher stabs, in general? I end up doing generic melee attacks on downed enemies all the time when I want the finisher stab, and I have no idea why. Even when I'm right up close and aiming at the target, it still happens. Can the input for aerial slam attacks be changed to holding E, instead of just pressing it? IT would make it much simpler to choose to use an aerial attack, versus a slam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.