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[DE]Bear

Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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Looking forward to the Range changes. I hope other melee weapon types will be useful now.

The whole lifted thing seems cool, but I don't think it's gonna be very useful in Warframe. Enemies die way too quickly to fully take advantage of this system, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Overall, great changes.

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I'm sorry, these changes look beyond bad:
 

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

This costs all of your Combo Counter (affected by Mods)

For what purpace is this gigantic set back ? even being affected by mods means you lose all of your progress in increased damage in 1 attack... that might miss

1 hour ago, [DE]Bear said:

Since the Combo Multiplier will apply to Heavy Attacks only

Why for the Ungodly reason is this even a thing. Why remove the only scaleable damage we get in game ? This needs to be re-thought

Now, my big question is, these questionable nerfs are not only uncalled, but kill a lot of damage:

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Blood Rush - Will now scale differently, using a stacking multiplier based on the Combo Counter, raising (X)% per Combo Counter tier

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Condition Overload - Now stacks at a maximum of 3 Status Effects

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Covert Lethality - Is being removed from Dagger Weapons

And before i speak about the biggest nerf of it all:
Why would i use a dagger now? You remove an insta kill for 1 enemy, from a stance for every Dagger weapon, But you keep abilities that insta kill enemies ? This honestly reminds me of why Ember was originally nerfed for. Now Daggers literally have no use in the game if i can just pick up an actual damage melee and kill more enemies at once. If anything this whole Nerf makes people directed to Either Heavy weapons or polearms, since low range weapons have less reason to exist because of the dmg nerf.
 

2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Please note, the stats in the above screen may not represent the final numbers, as we go through the usual balance passes.

I will give my thoughts simply here:
The damage needs to be boosted by A LOT, simply giving 3x the damage isn't enough, combo gave bonus damage AFTER MODS, adding + base dmg can't reach that at all.
We are talking about 5-6~ digits base numbers to reach old dmg with combo


In the end this is a MASS nerf to melee, If melee now made people go for Heavy Blades and Polearms, now it makes it REQUIRED to even deal relayable damage

Please don't go through with this
 

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Just now, (PS4)Quantaminum said:

The whole lifted thing seems cool, but I don't think it's gonna be very useful in Warframe. Enemies die way too quickly to fully take advantage of this system, but I guess it's better than nothing.

Endgame is now not only fashionframe, but also making Combo MAD videos in the simulacrum.

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5 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

This is veering a bit off-topic. I'll happily share my build in PM's if you want though!

I'm not asking for builds lol. I'm just saying that these changes aren't useful for a game like warframe.

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25 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

Channeling efficiency will got to combo efficiency (you will spend less Combo Counter to perform Heavy Attacks), and Channel Damage becomes Heavy Attack Damage... so that thing is going to hit like a truck, and then hit often, I would assume.

What about stat-stick melee and frames which benefit from high disposition Rivens (like Atlas)?

Which "new" stats will translate to powers?

Are you planning to keep stat-stick concept at all, because it seems like good time to get rid of it and buff frames relying on Riven boost.

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What are you doing with accessory channeling energy effects? 

Are they going to be tied to rage? 😕

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15 minutes ago, RhythmScript said:

But doesn't the new system completely eliminate the functionality of the combo counter EXCEPT as a thing to spend on heavy attacks? I thought I understood that the whole "combo counter increases your damage mult over time" was being removed

I'd say Blood Rush was a much bigger deal in keeping combo alive than the token damage multiplier, but ultimately, some of us just like keeping the chain going and getting rewarded for it.

16 minutes ago, RhythmScript said:

There's no longer a reason to "keep" your combo counter except to make your heavy attack hit harder and harder.

Except that making the heavy attack hit harder requires passing up on using the heavy attack...  Kind of a net loss, when I suspect that a single heavy attack is rarely going to really be that much more useful for the build-up put into it.

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Is the system still so weak it can only be presented on Level 10 butchers?

Seriously?

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So my only question is, are heavy attacks (and all the sweet things we get with them) going to eat all of the combo counter? Other than that, it looks delicious.

Edited by mrrobotto67
Right after i posted this i saw the answer. LOL

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30 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

Yep! Thanks for the correction!

So uh, these changes seem cool and all, but are scythes big yet?

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What is going to happen to my exodia brave? Will it still give me energy?

Edited by DraekoSilver
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3 minutes ago, Sannidor said:

What about stat-stick melee and frames which benefit from high disposition Rivens (like Atlas)?

Which "new" stats will translate to powers?

Are you planning to keep stat-stick concept at all, because it seems like good time to get rid of it and buff frames relying on Riven boost.

From what I understand, none of the 'stat stick' stats (raw damage, elemental damage, crit chance, status chance) are getting changed. So none of the new stats will translate to powers because they don't relate at all.

The only thing that is currently up in the air is combo interaction with powers.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Amalgam Organ Shatter - Will be changed from Charge Attacks to Heavy Attacks.

I find this abit sad. Unless charge attacks are becoming heavy attacks, in which case nevermind.

I was thinking the other day that there just arnt enough mods for reduced charge attack speed. Especially as there are so many weapons whos main features are locked behind charge mechanics. We used to have these mods, but then charge attacks went away and they became channelling mods.

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4 minutes ago, SteveCutler said:

Sounds great overall. But if you're changing the combo counter, please don't forget about melee combo based abilities like Atlas's Landslide, Khora's Whipclaw, etc. They do not need massive nerfs.

A few folks have mentioned this, so just to quickly address: After the initial ask, the idea is that Warframe powers that are based on the combo counter will still get that benefit, but there will be some balance adjustments, as getting higher multipliers on the combo counter is much, much easier to do now. As of this point, I have no further details on that interaction, sorry!

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49 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

I'm glad to finally be getting manual blocking back, but sad to see guardian derision is losing its taunt. Was hoping to finally be about to go full tank mode with it, and the amalgam javlok mod. 😞

Same. I really, really don't like the change to Guardian Derision... Being able to taunt enemies into attacking you paired well with certain weapons and warframes (Vaykor Sydon/Assimilate Nyx) It was also nice on tanky frames/frames using the Rage mod.

Please revert the change on this mod, or add in a new taunting mod for melee 😞

Edit: Thanks for the heads up and just saw the post that it's keeping the taunt, hurrah! 😀

Edited by Numerikuu

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I too find that the changes to Life Strike seem like a nerf. Several of my build depended on the quick healing it provided. If Heavy Strikes are slow, it might be too late to heal using it.

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I'm not breathing correctly reading all of this craziness, but oh lord if I'm hyped. 

Can't believe this is coming so soon. 

Umph, breathe...

I'm sorry if I offend someone in here but I don't give a F anymore so I'll say it:

DE, nerf whatever you feel like needs to be nerfed without hesitation and deliver this holy piece of digital content  to our lives.

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14 minutes ago, Zeniistar said:

You have no idea what youre talking about. Please stop posting

And you do? Regardless, I love these changes and am relishing on your salt deposits 😋😋😋

13 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

I use the ohma and these changes will kill it xd

Until you play with it, you cannot be certain. 

Edited by (PS4)LoisGordils
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2 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Same. I really, really don't like the change to Guardian Derision... Being able to taunt enemies into attacking you paired well with certain weapons and warframes (Vaykor Sydon/Assimilate Nyx)

Please revert the change on this mod, or add in a new taunting mod for melee 😞

they posted a clarification a little later in the thread, GD will retain the taunt mechanic.

Edited by LordPantaloonsthe3rd

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2 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Same. I really, really don't like the change to Guardian Derision... Being able to taunt enemies into attacking you paired well with certain weapons and warframes (Vaykor Sydon/Assimilate Nyx) It was also nice on tanky frames/frames using the Rage mod.

Please revert the change on this mod, or add in a new taunting mod for melee 😞

 

15 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

As an answer, Guardian Derision will still have it's Taunt mechanic, yes.

 

Chill.

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Go away. You probably only use Plague Kripath/Atterax and spin2win anyways. These changes look bomb

Most used is a galatine and dokrahm heavy blade, with tipedo and nikana prime in the runner ups, but ok.

I couldn't care less about spin2win being nerfed. What I am not ok with is virtually all combo mods being nerfed across the board, and the removal of combo as a damage multiplier.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Channeling will be saying its final farewells in the Melee Rework: Phase 2 update, and instead is being replaced with a new form of Heavy Attack, as well as a new Lifted status effect

How will Condition Overload interact with this?

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looks decent so far, hopefully having fun with it and giving my feedback when it ships. 

My only concern is the 100% damage blocked thing. on paper, it looks very powerful, even tho its limited to a certain angle in front of us. like, facing a toxic ancient eximus (venomous ancient) lvl 160 hitting u in ur face and nothing happens? pretty much all slow, but hard hitting enemies would become a joke by using quick melee and let the auto-block do the stuff. 

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