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Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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On 2019-11-04 at 9:26 AM, (PS4)Touha9 said:

Console player anxiously awaiting the update...

With the new Melee changes, odd question but does the combat feel even more visceral/intense than before?  Has anyone noticed any change in the dismemberment aspect?  Honestly keep hoping DE decides to increase the dismemberment/gore a bit more in the future....For me it really adds to the adrenaline factor in gameplay...

It feels funner but clunky... In the simplest way put.

 

The good things about it, is that you are not lock in a combo animation, lots of animations seem sped up for many weapons, you know every combo for every weapon just by knowing one.

The bad about it is that charge attacks are actually the heat attack... So what that means is the heavy attack animations are nothing more than what the charge attacks were before and some of them are attrocious to connect, if you were used to walking around spinning and oneshotting whole rooms that will not happen. Life strike is now one big heal instead of a sustain heal, and things like healing return only heal if the status is applied beforehand I think.

 

Some of the changes make no sense but ultimately I feel like actually meleeing is much better than before. Which is the intention... There was no incentive to use a regular combo beforehand if u had maiming strike.

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This update broke the use of glaives being thrown while holding primary and secondary weapons and essentially made them unbearably useless

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It's nice that Condition overload doesn't have forced cap but making it's damage even worse than what you originally planned ( 3 statuses cap with 10.6x total damage multiplier ) is just horrible.

 

All melee weapons were buffed ~3-4 times but not Exalted. There is no point in using something like Exalted blade now because any melee weapon deals the same damage or more...

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35 minutes ago, She11by said:

All melee weapons were buffed ~3-4 times but not Exalted. There is no point in using something like Exalted blade now because any melee weapon deals the same damage or more...

Same with desert wind, if I might give in my input. I don't know about other exalted, but it feels kind of like I'm weakening myself when I use it compared to a melee weapon.

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On 2019-11-06 at 1:20 PM, ChaosMarine said:

DE are messing up here. I've been asking every cell I've played with tonight what they're thinking and I've had exactly eight against forty-eight people (Yes, I did count) who liked and disliked the new system respectively. This is a big change to way WF plays and it's a massive change to the melee aspect which is a core component of the game.If DE are serious about producing a game the fans enjoy, okay, have the update available but within a month of the update, they should put out a message to the players and ask if they want to keep the old melee system or if they want to keep the new one.

To the people who think this is good, I don't care. If you disagree with me, I doubly don't care.You're welcome to enjoy the new system and I won't begrudge you enjoying it but just because you're enjoying it, doesn't mean those that don't enjoy it should shut up or not voice their disappointment.

I agree. DE your creating a game to bring joy and fun to player. I don't enjoy playing bland, all normalized and "balanced" game. Ultimately right now DE just looks like a fun police. They don't bring any fun to the table.

I say more crazy op weapons are good for the game.

PS I don't use catchmoon, i use tombfinger. But its still disheartening to see all hard work put in by the players to just "puff" in the name of communism or mystical "Balance" as DE likes to call it.

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On 2019-11-04 at 5:26 PM, (PS4)Touha9 said:

Console player anxiously awaiting the update...

With the new Melee changes, odd question but does the combat feel even more visceral/intense than before?  Has anyone noticed any change in the dismemberment aspect?  Honestly keep hoping DE decides to increase the dismemberment/gore a bit more in the future....For me it really adds to the adrenaline factor in gameplay...

Be ready for potentially all the hard work you put into your optimized melee weapon being nerfed into the ground.

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Please review Blood Rush + Gladiator at 3x-4x with the old system compared to 12x with the new system, as I believe ramping crit focused builds have been unintentionally weakened beyond intended.

After playing with this a bit, the new damage and combo system severely limits my damage and damage potential. I had been built around a full crit ramping build, using a gladiator setup with a 2h crit+speed kripath, or similar features with Twin Krohkur. I'd normally get to 3-4x combo multiplier in a normal mission, and the amount of damage that let me dish out was obscene. This also had limitless potential in longer missions, where going above 4x was reasonable to see.

Please assess increasing +Range increased for 2h weapons by 1.5x or 2x the value of 1h, dual 1h, and 1h + shield melee weapons.

I'm also feeling the change on how range is added. I wasn't sweeping through entire rooms before, but now I need a range mod alongside the range on my riven to get close to what the riven alone could add. I feel like 1h and dual 1h weapons should get a different range bonus than 2h weapons (maybe 1.5x or 2x for 2h weapons)  so the static increase that replaced the old +% doesn't completely neuter the synergy of adding range to long weapons. 

Seems like I'm going way too far...

I'm not sure what it is with the new system, but I seem to dodge roll way more than I used to. It isn't interrupting my attacks that makes it annoying, it is blowing completely past a target and having to turn around because a dodge roll got initiated by accident. Sometimes the combos also make me blow by targets instead of homing in to engage them. I'd rather melee feel more like arch-melee when attacking while holding forward and no enemy is nearby, and attempt to attract to the target closest to the reticle relative to the camera or something. 

On the plus, melee flow breakage seems significantly reduced.

So far I haven't accidentally done a finisher when I'm charging into a group of enemies that someone staggered. If that's been fixed and it requires the finisher key to use in all cases, I'm very pleased. That means the only thing I need is Limbo repellent and nobody breaks the flow of melee combat for me anymore! But just because I haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it won't happen, so I'm still not completely certain on this.  

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Jesus this is painful. The way they've crippled Blood Rush and Condition Overload makes weapons that scale off the combo counter useless now. 

Edited by ChaosMarine

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Most of the changes overall nice but the staves are still using the new slower attack animations without stance. I would like to back the old one because that was much faster and the hitbox was better with that. The transition on daggers, dual daggers and on swords-polearms seems better. 

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Am 8.11.2019 um 12:12 schrieb (XB1)TROOPERSM:

hi what happened to the zenistar I just got it and the disc only lasts 10 seconds but on my console account it lasts 45 seconds

Same for me on PC. 10 seconds disk duration, no matter what I do. It would be nice if the combo counter would also increase the disk duration.

________________________________

And here's something very niche, but I miss it for my sneaky Ivara: I used a dagger for stealth finishers and had it channeling, so the victim would disintegrate and the corpse wouldn't be spotted and trigger an alarm. That is gone now since channeling is gone (for now). Could the heavy attack be used for that function? Also, I don't quite understand why the finisher mod for daggers was removed? This could as well be used to add the disintegration to the dagger finisher?

If all else fails, an Amalgam mod for a dagger perhaps?

________________________________

EDIT: Shield melee to me is disappointing. I was hoping that equipping the shield would make more of a difference, but sadly it's not. I would so much more prefer it, if a shield could keep its blocking direction depending on my cursor, and not my posture. Trying to move sideways immediately exposes me and damage isn't blocked anymore.

  • Crouching behind a shield should add an improvement to the blocking, as there is less of me to be seen.
  • The mod "Focused Defense" says it adds + 20 Parry Angle, but it adds Blocking Angle. Or both? This is unclear. 
  • The mod "Reflection" still reads "... reflected when Blocking attacks while channeling". Imho this should become a mod when equipped with a shield. It currently does not reflect any damage.
  • "Reflex Guard" adds to the combo count chance when blocking, but a drain of 14 for 100% ? Doesn't the reworked blocking add 100% to the combo counter now? Why not have it increase the blocking angle? With a drain of 14 I'd make it a 100% increase in blocking angle.
  • Ack & Brunt's "unique ability to absorb elemental attacks on block to empower the weapon's next attack." Is it still there? There is no mention of it or its mechanics when equipping it. This would also make clear why the mod for Ack & Brunt is any good...
  • The Silva & Aegis mod "Avenging Truth" still reads "... for the next charge attack", would need to read "... for the next heavy attack". Also, blocking does not fill up the Truth effect.
  • Both Cobra & Crane and Sigma & Octanis have an aerial attack, where the thrown shield opens an enemy to a finisher. It would be so much more in line of the other Daily Tribute Weapons, if the Sigma shield would bounce between enemies, behaving like a spinning disc in damaging multiple enemies.

We got so many monster damage weapons, imho shields should actually emphasize their defensive nature and encourage the use for that exact purpose. Right now there is no reason to spend any time with them, as such a trait has not enough benefit to be viable. I would very much like the option to build a real tank, starting with the tankiest weapon family.

Edited by BratwurstBob

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Can you please make the Charge Attack button auto swap to melee when you have gun out instead of doing nothing.

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26 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Can you please make the Charge Attack button auto swap to melee when you have gun out instead of doing nothing.

That would break weapons that have alternate fire modes

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

That would break weapons that have alternate fire modes

that's a different button. I have them on two different keys.

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hey. melee seems have more attackspeed or something? my zaw 0.85 as now can't even press E to quick melee because attack speed too high? same build when melee don't have any rework

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В 08.11.2019 в 02:17, Snydrex сказал:

Same with desert wind, if I might give in my input. I don't know about other exalted, but it feels kind of like I'm weakening myself when I use it compared to a melee weapon.

thats the only thing i hate about lovely baruuk 😞 Pressing 4 makes you feel weaker but with nice animations...sigh

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Hope that you will fix exalted weapons soon.

Every melee weapon was hugely buffed in order to compensate damage loss from the combo damage multiplier.

Exalted weapons like exalted blade etc. have lost combo damage multiplier as well but didn't get this buff.

So you want players to use ULTIMATE melee ability to deal LESS damage than normal melee weapon?

Here are some numbers:

  • Exalted blade:
    • 250 damage, 10% status, 0.833 aspd, 15% crit, 2.0x crit mult. = 239.5 dps
  • Galatine prime:
    • 280 damage, 26% status, 1.0 aspd, 26% crit, 2.0x crit mult. = 352.8 dps (47.3% more)
  • Nikana prime:
    • 198 damage, 28% status, 1.08 aspd, 28% crit, 2.4x crit mult. = 297.7 dps (24.3% more)
  • Orthos prime:
    • 234 damage, 36% status, 1.17 aspd, 24% crit, 2.2x crit mul. = 352.6 dps (47.2% more)

A lot more dps while having crit and riven options.

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it would be really good if rivens and other mods had enhanced stats to make kneeslide and wall-latch better, where am saying that the function of these things with melee weapons and players using heavy attacks is a bit predictable and a delay is also very noticible for wall latchers and some weapons with latchmods are impractical to function, so i propose that the old channeling and counter/parry features be weaved into the said actions and double jumping as well have bonuses added or "combos" added that enhance reload or melee in fashionable ways.

also that the mod/upgrade screens and arsenal receive a visual update, especially for warframe weapons such as excalibur or wukong's stances+mods that can't be replaced, they look very dull and have no outreaching, unloke the rivens and augments which exist for other player weapons, there is nothing that i know to make these basic weapons better, most aughmentives are for abilities, which brings me to talk about barook, valkir

wind brace or fist are good but have little customization, i suggest that maybe the elemental _statuses playlight in the visual and attackign sounds which are awesome right now, i would like some chi-or ranged attacks like hadokens for some other weapons, the hammer has a really cool spinning attack that is very thrusworthy, other weapons leave players backs exposed unless they have a parry mod equiped and abilities such as Gauss's 4th ether spinning in the air, might distract the enemies, but cant be configured, the ability was made to enhance bullets and the fire rate of GAUSS WEAPONS, but the [akarius] has a really terrible reload and choke without Rivens, so there is need for rework, and additional melee features to make gauss users less predictable and recast, right now we are guessing if the ranged mods will aughtment our running and springint 1st ability tackles, and should include other elemental refunds, and status enhancements in the future, especially with the shielding -g2 which armors gauss temporarilly, i still think that the AOE attack (g3) is too brief and lacks temporary or team plating, or refiniment, it should enhance gauss's MELEE (( let g3 AOE enhance g-melee, maybe other players who are in contact could get benefits with the other g-a's_especially g4's burst, and also gauss needs a specialty melee weapon, so far the [boomerang] seemed to workout for gauss, as well as the katana with any stance, but there is lack luster in melee for gauss, this is why volt is still better honestly, but i dont care.

 

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Can we think of something for Lecta?

It's a great weapon for the tenno to obtain early in the game, but it could be concealed as the parazon or added to a particular warframe if they run out of bullets or energy, or they choose to fight without weapons, and go without guns to missions, the parazon has no melee attacks and is difficult to unleash finishers for me right now because i dont know how it works, i seens something where it worked 3 times. But thats about it! Lecta retains a epic profile, but its boring to use, maybe allow the energy channeling? on that note for now a free overcoat and augments/mods/skins* added to missions and bounties to excite replay ^_^for several melee weapons mods, and lesser rivens or aughments to obtain from scanning, cephalons, and stealth kills or missions might pickup the melee2revisions, otherwise have konzu rewards at cetus reflect the Zaws*and if there, were to be new Zawsome functions to cast magic**************and mods which are AOE, or speed up healing, energy recovery, and staminy for sprinting, thirsty for cetus improvements, alas there is no kit-drive or specializing mods which go back and fowards in cetus, and the orbiter attacks to specialize and improve, we have built the function in the arsenal and foundry there should be some new buttons and features to upgrade the ORBITER, the relays are lackluser and could be nice places to further the modification of standard issue ships and kit-parts with further mods, and features, since there is room to place more landing pads, robotics who are mechanics to keep orbiters purchases and syndicacy important.

 environments or accelerants with pickups; to have quickening statuses, less mods / one special way.note: *the automatic upgrade screen,conveys wall latches function is great to have a damage reduction with PROTON SNAP but we need the mod to get revisions, BEST TO ADD RANGE% or a special function.for melee wall latch is barelyreal, or practical.applications for proton snap to seem colorful, and also parry mod is obscure because it was based on channeling, unclear if it works.

anybody, a good suggestion or two?

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Edited by SnakeBadger

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  • I have one last idea called HUSK using the empty mod slots which would help players who dont know how to use the arsenal to obtain some passive improvements which can activate randomly to improve attack speed or reload with all the pickups and items discovered, scanning, and affinity bonuses which last temporarily or briefly surging energy for healing, armor, or aesthetics with  the players trying a weapon for the first time after they bought them from the market you might consider the display and visual enhancements which the foundry could bestow players with tickets or potions, kubrows gain respective bonuses wheen the arsenal is visited, then players could obtain some rewarding orbiter and weapon hints or tricks, and bonuses, not everything is clear and this would stop alot of complains over not having rivens compared to higher level players.

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  • LECTA > should get a few defensive bonuses because it has delayed attacks and no wall latch functions to merit for using it as a final weapon without any rivens, moducats said, i picture the rework should get a special shield and sub function that can be as good as the warframe electricity counter or reload enhancing function, some weapons have a charge build-up, Lecta does not have anything exciting until the players get rivens and specialty mods, stances and equinox, could have a vauban/octavia overcloking the nexus or interchanging bullets and excess energy in the works , to summon a thingy and another for critical hits, if it connects with the enemies or it hits like AOE, and spicy. 

there is a weapon called the SECURA but i think its silly to double credits if they dont have additional combat merits on pickup there should be some secondary mode or modulus to make this more beliebable at least a robot or VFX, sound effect, alot of the syndicate pickups and mods are obscure to willing players to be introduced well at least there should be some additional kit-guns and weapons added to the orbiter and relays to pronounce an urge to pvp and missions mods, and rewards, cetus also does not have any special ways to showcase the zaws or exciting story rewads until much much later- so defeating ghouls and fishing etc is somewhat mediocre to replay through, maybe here is a great place to reward players with mods enhancing ZAW or placing spears and syndicate traps and challenges outside of nightwave, given that cephalon simaris should also interfere or give credits else in minning data and scanning/ patchwork / and palettes added are my only good ideas to excite cetus and fortuna players to try out melee further and playtest other weapons.

Edited by SnakeBadger
lecta visual and stance are outdated for me, i tried using the color palette, the only thing i came up with was a hard-drive which spins or burns through ammo and credits for space fighting, and augments.

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  1. Paris Prime Melee >  magic and knife attacks + close range options for bows: need special functions, they dont work well with melee attacks, i also use the ballistica, i find it a facinating but it barely hurts enemies without charging it up, it should feature a magical way to charge up the motors on energy pickup or simply by pressing the secondary fire such as summoning or aquiring a higher grant of power, reload is also boring on most weapons arrows should also be discovered or retrieved for parts/foundry/lockers/cetus.
  2. clem and ayatan structural enemies and melee should be influenced by different gravities, bonuses and exp% rewards like some planets offer to players who specialize on secondary guns, there should be some incentive to helping in them, otherwise players will always pike up the earth mission: coba for the bonus EXP.
  3. bonus EXP on some missions should be widespread bonus added to pickups and lockers, or syndicate/scans/and weaved into the city and relay life announcements or radio so players get excited over the signaling waves, if they play solo versus with team-mates, and specters who randomly help to give items and merits, or blueprints, things might be random in color and features like how kit-guns and special mods have colorful riven like functions, or temporary requirements and effects, or effective bullets which burst into flames and ice chemistries.
  4. just wanted to say that its really annoying to lose a team member when opening lockers.
  5. and also that i never seen a prisoner use shields or melee attacks, the same goes for specters and parazon users to block and VFX or SFX functions are missing, 
  6. maybe fighting near ayatan and special loccations aids melee triggers , status, or temporary bonuses near structural areas, caves, enclosures and give out a extra POW, landslide or splash on ice, and water/rain, i really like the burning forest level i once played, also the inaros mission but it was a tad unrewarding, really regular enemies and lack of special blueprints or mods to find things relevant to scan or obtain in chest and mods which might be a great place to add melee or augments, rivens to weapons to obtain a true stance or randomized valueble, sugatras, skins, etc add to replayability of missions, theres other stuff missing from using each stance and VFX in each planet.
  7. i have no idea, at least am trying. but came up with another idea for invasions to have special mods and replacing monsters and music changes, as for the melee aspects there can be bonus EXP on melee kill, or a special VFX/sound pertaining the tilesets/weather/.
Edited by SnakeBadger

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is some one else having problem getting ot of archwing it cetus or fortuna   i dont know abot other but i am not able to get out of arching until i am down or killed

an i have tried using melee or other  simple stupid thing

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Just now, Reakacemrz said:

is some one else having problem getting ot of archwing it cetus or fortuna   i dont know abot other but i am not able to get out of arching until i am down or killed

an i have tried using melee or other  simple stupid thing

not today, sorry

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