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Dev Workshop - Melee Rework Phase 2: TECHNIQUE

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I'm sure this point has been raised, but I don't want to dig through the thread and I can't not bring it up. I enjoy the heavy attack button being right stick in, especially for projectile weapons like Redeemer and glaives as it makes aiming far easier. However, please allow us to still hold B in order to transition into a heavy attack while using a primary and secondary like we had before. Case in point: imagine you're using Scourge to apply status procs for a CO Redeemer build. Before this update, I could nail an enemy with some Scourge blasts, then hold B to immediately transition into the charged attack of the Redeemer. The way it is now, holding B does nothing and clicking right stick obviously just chucks my staff. So, I either have to hit B to engage melee or hold Y to manually equip melee before being allowed to do the charge attack. Neither method is fluid or convenient, so my suggestion is to map holding B and right stick in to the exact same function. This way we can transition to a melee's heavy attack while aiming with a primary or secondary, as well as keep the more accessible aiming when melee is engaged. Thanks.

[Edit - Oh, so PC's most recent update fixed this apparently? But people are complaining they're holding the attack button accidentally. OK, well, hopefully on console, that's not an issue and all is well. 😆]

Edited by (XB1)Earth Nuggets

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On occasion the game is interpreting the light attacks as a held button press and performing a heavy attack and blowing combo counter.  Please make held melee attack for heavy a toggle it is annoying.  Are exalted weapons going to be revisted post 3.0?  Iron staff in particular does not look to be in a good place post 3.0 and seems inferior to regular melee due to the cap on condition overload and not being able to use bloodrush.

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Ok, not going to wade through 53 pages of feedback for Glaives, though there seems to be some feedback just on the first page.

First, if the changes to melee in general have removed the glaive exploding on its own by default, please put this back.

The glaive was already awkward to begin with and removing this makes it even more annoying to use effectively.

I think the changes in general are good for melee the way this is implemented also changed glaives for the worse.

The pistol + glaive combo was surprisingly fun and efficient to use, especially since it explodes. Now... not so fun to use any more since there is wind up and in pure melee mode you can't go straight into the throw when you hold down the melee button, which makes building up your combo counter using a throw very difficult.

why not use the glaive like a regular melee weapon? Kind of defeats the purpose of making it a boomerang type and it never really leaves your hand for very long, eh?

Edited by UncaIroh

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"Forward Tactical Combo (Forward + Block/Aim + Melee) - This move is usually a distance-closing opener, bringing you closer to the enemy and getting you within range to continue a harder-hitting string of attacks. The beginning or end of this combo can have a slam effect, allowing you to control the enemy, and during the mid-point of the combo, attacks will be large and sweeping, allowing multiple enemies to be hit."

 

I back to the game after 2 months just for the new melee system. Its a very nice change, but some things feel weird:

Point 1 -  We dont have a decent dash attack or a gap close. Of corse u can double jump and slam attack on plains or some areas, but warframe have so many narrow places and because that i really can't slam the enemy. 

Point 2 - Foward tactival Combo isint work like ur video post here, far away from that. I can't gap close just with that, the distance is poor and i dont feel the impact of the blade or anything when i hit the enemy with this move. Improve the distance and make this move more viable, like excalibur 1 (one) ability.

Point 3 - Bullet jump + melee = Why kill that? Transforme the old bullet jump + melee on something with heavy attack, or a new gap close that stun the enemy. I can't feel the hit when i'm in the air, with is 90% of time on warframe. Bullet jump and melee air combat deserve a special move, slam attack alone wont work on all places.

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Holding back while attacking should be able to prevent forward momentum from attacks.
Things like the Obex will always scoot you forward no matter what you do.

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Dope update. All the new changes are great. BUT can we address an old issue? Now that heavy attack has a dedicated key bind can you please make an option to disable it from quick melee? As it is right now you sometimes do a heavy attack while trying to quick melee. Thanks for the quick fix

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PLEASE MAKE HOLD MELLE>HEAVY ATTACK OPTIONAL. MASS ATTACK SPEED COMBO BUILDS ARE ALMOST UNPLAYABLE BECAUSE OF CURRENT, FORCED IMPLEMENTATION.

Edited by Shining_Darkness
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Please give 10% damage per combo up to 120% at 12x Combo. Crit Melee needs that kind of buff! Don't limit melee to going Heavy attacs that are bad for fast missions or force me to play Condition Overload builds!

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  1. elemental visuals and heavy attacks are slow and repetitive or lack luster.
  2. so the players have few options stuck with toxin or blast
  3. no known other combinations or explanations make melee modding boring
  4. parry, and healing/ vampire and robotic mods could be nicer and feature green luster.looking at the digits and rewards screen remake (players want to see heals and other visuals.
  5. umbra ideas for profile and advances to operator combat, would be good to hear something when you highlight or scroll over the forma and umbra / and switch categories, in profiles and upgrades screen, and pvp.
  6. tenno stuck with armblast melee
  7. is very S#&$tty
  8. ARCHWING any kitguns / zaw for space, and water combat. new rewards? accesories? sigyls? profile update? customization?
  9. ARCHWING or new mods? aughments? rivens? arcanes to find during bounties or mission rewards which could be great for the operators and tenno who get new friends and repeat story missions, levels, and open relics should be rewarded with other interesting parazon mods, bullet types, and arrow acc. graphics, a fire arrow and some heavy attacks for charged shots, and elemental bows.
  10. because of the shotgun only i think there should be some new graphics that aren't bloody and ways to perform takedowns, or rish bullets maybe a plasmoidal shot which is charged up like the operators can be added on some different energy pickups for weapons to join the heavy attacks, and to make defeating commanders, and continuous fighting shoulnn't leave enemy ships vulnerable, they  should come in with sone heavy or charged AOE bombs or mini rockets, and taregt large areas with barrels and monkeys, not just haste in the emote. the grinner just jump off their ships, predictably will get shoot mid-air, there is a few who survive via canisters, along with the stomp-ee robot who can't defend against arch-line, and has no rockets or really visual blasters or great rewards, the fish are decent, but there should be some aughments, robotics and other mods to find, or scanning points to craft archwing weapons, and different melee weapon like a sword n shield, or a special  palette to aquire with the floofs, tags, or special multipliyers, players will just ignore the large robot or find it annoying often, because, the eidolon is also difficult, so i havent tried the tier 2 because i have no idea how to damage it, there are many rewards but no essential fun items to get from it which can apply to combat, broken parts, unlike monster hunter so its predictable, it should benefit from other lighting, shields, and rewardtypes, sounds, and music.
  11. fun there can be temporary weapons added to pickup or other acrobatics, i still see players runnign around with really basic weapons such as the kunai, skana, and bolt shooter boltor' and they dont even know how to get a zaw or kitgun, or get a new warframe, usually they get limbo, but no idea how to get other ughments or powerups, with so many planets, i think maybe the best option for now is adding new rewards and music for each planet.
Edited by SnakeBadger

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Please please please DE, I hope you fix the issue with heavy melee being triggered by holding down the melee button. More than 50% of the time, the game somehow makes my warframe do a heavy melee even though I’m not holding to the melee button. I’ve tested and looked at how I was pressing my melee and I swear that from time to time, my character does a heavy melee. This is bad because we lose our combo counter through this action. I really hope we can toggle off the holding of melee button to initiate heavy melee.

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After recent changes I'm happy to report that most of the problems with melee before the rework has been fixed. Great work. Build diversity is up. Condition Overload has had its capped removed seemingly too.

All that's missing is the issue with buffering inputs and Lifted Status needing some tweaks. Otherwise I declare this phase of Melee a resounding success.

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concerned about focus points requirements are high even though mods are pre-polarized with each school before forma and lenses also i been playing unairu class for 2months getting 0 focus points, even though i play a whole mission outside of my warframe killing things and using all my passives and skills, jumping and charging attacks with my blaster, hitting those yellow nodes, it all doesnt matter unless u have a greater lense and that all your warframe's equipment is stacked with lenses, so the operators who really great at reviving, teleporting, and saving kuva-transference, armor-tripping, get no rewards.

also things like operator melee diversity, and charged attacks, double kills feel great but have no rewards, wall dashing during or aerial combat with tenno, or doing kill assist, opening lockers, or accessing panels to hack go unrewarded for the players in voidmode who use everything they got in the game

activating spheres should have other featuers for combat based on the planets maybe many different types of condition visuals, and graphic areas could be added some domino areas which also affect teammates upon discovering some objects which allows for greater parkour and movement speed for operators, the warframes could have some increases, and critical hits or fire rate could go up for smalltime,

say maybe one pickup could be shoot at from far away. which is on top of a building and it rains down various loot and credits, with prolonged effects, octavia is a good example but its rather messy to just start ducking and expecting to feel any benefits from her musical abilities u can see many things active currently if ur in her team, but nothing is as good as wisps powerups, so there would have to be other pickup time of items from the kills, lockers, and extractionpoints or other gameareas, according to the weather forecasts, syndicate affiliation, sigils and glyphs equiped to be used as modifyers, or mods polarity to proclaim, some type of benefit which assert gravity, and reload, slide, and acrobatics per tileset outside from the basic nightmare modes, you will need to remake nightmare mode into something mroe interesting and rewarding.

arbitration by far is the greatest feature in the game but it has poor rewards and unforgiving chances to lose,

i think

that from there can you give more  areas nicer reductions and conditions without relying on big bulky graphics, i have seen some games doors and destructible tileset walls, which are inexpensively realisticly some spiders could stick a player with webs or cause electrify briefly to not cause major 

headaches.

i have been defeated once in the game with a device which caught my Operative and woulnt allow me to revive, it was a really painful experience, but i am trying to be more careful so i dont get caught again being playful with the enemies during  KO status all you can do is paddle, and wait for something to happen so maybe this is a good place to use heavy attacks and hit close range targets with the parazon for a inaros like effect t would have to be different sound effects and rewards like the kuvalich system, maybe you can get some carbides and relics or endo if u succeed in reviving or defeating a horde of enemies while you are down,

especially if you got downed while you are in your operator mode to extend the duration of your armor, and time before you just die, since you have a pool of energy and a warframe nearby or a pet who can or should do something to get you up,

i have seen some mods that are like 15 points that give a overshield but its expensive to equip something like that should be free or a passive, or be changed to retrofit the players taste, materia slots in final fantasy at least allow for some flexibility.

 

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10 hours ago, SnakeBadger said:

concerned about focus points requirements are high even though mods are pre-polarized with each school before forma and lenses also i been playing unairu class for 2months getting 0 focus points, even though i play a whole mission outside of my warframe killing things and using all my passives and skills, jumping and charging attacks with my blaster, hitting those yellow nodes, it all doesnt matter unless u have a greater lense and that all your warframe's equipment is stacked with lenses, so the operators who really great at reviving, teleporting, and saving kuva-transference, armor-tripping, get no rewards.

also things like operator melee diversity, and charged attacks, double kills feel great but have no rewards, wall dashing during or aerial combat with tenno, or doing kill assist, opening lockers, or accessing panels to hack go unrewarded for the players in voidmode who use everything they got in the game

activating spheres should have other featuers for combat based on the planets maybe many different types of condition visuals, and graphic areas could be added some domino areas which also affect teammates upon discovering some objects which allows for greater parkour and movement speed for operators, the warframes could have some increases, and critical hits or fire rate could go up for smalltime,

say maybe one pickup could be shoot at from far away. which is on top of a building and it rains down various loot and credits, with prolonged effects, octavia is a good example but its rather messy to just start ducking and expecting to feel any benefits from her musical abilities u can see many things active currently if ur in her team, but nothing is as good as wisps powerups, so there would have to be other pickup time of items from the kills, lockers, and extractionpoints or other gameareas, according to the weather forecasts, syndicate affiliation, sigils and glyphs equiped to be used as modifyers, or mods polarity to proclaim, some type of benefit which assert gravity, and reload, slide, and acrobatics per tileset outside from the basic nightmare modes, you will need to remake nightmare mode into something mroe interesting and rewarding.

arbitration by far is the greatest feature in the game but it has poor rewards and unforgiving chances to lose,

i think

that from there can you give more  areas nicer reductions and conditions without relying on big bulky graphics, i have seen some games doors and destructible tileset walls, which are inexpensively realisticly some spiders could stick a player with webs or cause electrify briefly to not cause major 

headaches.

i have been defeated once in the game with a device which caught my Operative and woulnt allow me to revive, it was a really painful experience, but i am trying to be more careful so i dont get caught again being playful with the enemies during  KO status all you can do is paddle, and wait for something to happen so maybe this is a good place to use heavy attacks and hit close range targets with the parazon for a inaros like effect t would have to be different sound effects and rewards like the kuvalich system, maybe you can get some carbides and relics or endo if u succeed in reviving or defeating a horde of enemies while you are down,

especially if you got downed while you are in your operator mode to extend the duration of your armor, and time before you just die, since you have a pool of energy and a warframe nearby or a pet who can or should do something to get you up,

i have seen some mods that are like 15 points that give a overshield but its expensive to equip something like that should be free or a passive, or be changed to retrofit the players taste, materia slots in final fantasy at least allow for some flexibility.

 

I do all my missions with my warframe I put my lens on. I've got plenty of focus you use warframe/weapon you put the lens on to get focus not your operator. 

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2 hours ago, 4EvaBlazed said:

I do all my missions with my warframe I put my lens on. I've got plenty of focus you use warframe/weapon you put the lens on to get focus not your operator. 

not that simple for players who play without lenses and who try other techniques to gain any focus while play testing new weapons and new warframes, am just saying there should be other ways to get players to gain focus without just relying on the yellow balls, and the lenses, after all like i said, there are many weapons and mods which already have forma or school adaptations, now syndicate mods and augments, and auras aren';t particularly beautiful or dedicated to giving players points , so its down to how much customization the operators and tenno don't have compared  to how much warframe players with lenses can enjoy the game, i find that i play hard with my operator and am not gaining anything, all the stuff i get from missions and such things are for my warframe as well, so there's at least room to escape the arcane and warframe mentality, players use heavy attacks and are exposed ot weaknesses during this time your operator is free to leave the suit for a quick fireball, but he/she never gains anytypes of rewards, or points, so leveling focus is really pathetic, so we can also make sure that we get operators some melee additions, and a easier way to focus, reworking melee and acrobatics for the operators, the balls, and adding some basic Arkanes refinement or points to make endo and ayatan more functional choice between player and robots, not just lense-crafters.

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On 2019-11-26 at 1:04 AM, kapn655321 said:

Holding back while attacking should be able to prevent forward momentum from attacks.
Things like the Obex will always scoot you forward no matter what you do.

Brutal Tide stance for sparring weapons lack a neutral combo so it defaults to the forward combo, not sure if it's intended or just overlooked. Maybe worth trying the other stance (Grim Fury) even if you have to change polarity for it.

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I'm just gonna throw this in here - was a melee main then this update came out and made melee boring garbage for the sake of mimicking other anime games (like DmC). I played warframe for 4k+ hours, reached MR27 and spent thousands. Bought every prime access since I started playing just to support the devs. Then they did this. I know some fanboi's love it. Good for you. I doubt I'll be returning to warframe at this point and regret my investment because the melee changes in 2.0 technique took away the last shred of fun in Warframe for me. 

I'm stating my opinions. You're welcome to your own. I did as @sj_sinclair asked and gave it a fair chance. It's bad. It's awkward. You broke melee to make it pretty and that's a choice that's hard to respect.

 

And I know there's gonna be some fanboi's who feel like responding with harsh words for me expressing my opinions. The forum trolls also will discourage me returning to warframe. 

DE doesn't care about the voices who said "please don't" to these melee changes, and so I'm done caring about warframe. Sorry. Was good times until it wasn't. 

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Hey so I've toyed about with the new melee for a while now, and I gotta say I like it a lot. A big improvement over the... EHEM that was phase one.

However, I do have one request that'd be reeeaaally nice since a lot of the time I goof on whether I'm in 'Locked' melee or 'Loose' melee. I go to do a block combo and just aim my gun at them, or go to aim back to my gun and just block at someone... I'm not fond of the Loose state basically since it's not immediately obvious which I'm in, and so...

Two mutually exclusive options in the gameplay options to further control your weapon switch behaviour.

  • The first causes your melee weapon to automatically unequip after a 'quick' melee, emulating the old Quick Melee behaviour for people who want that back. Then they can just melee lock when they want to.
  • The second causes all melee draws to go into full melee lock, basically the reverse of the first.

Just that'd be really nice and fix my remaining beef with current melee.

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4 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

 

  • The first causes your melee weapon to automatically unequip after a 'quick' melee, emulating the old Quick Melee behaviour for people who want that back. Then they can just melee lock when they want to.

This is exactly what I was thinking. The new system only makes confusion. I honestly tried to adapt to this nightmare. As a result, often I have to throw out all ranged weapons and play only with melee weapons. And as I see it in the feedback, I'm not the only person with such problems. 

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i wanna point out operator traits and skills descriptions in mods which aren't clear, such as the naramon's melee increases affinity, is this meleeon the warframe or both the voidblast and tenno blasters, and what about fighting without a blaster, maybe we can get other powers other than void from the syndicate and sub-missions / storyline we dont even get a cosmetic or anything interesting for the tenno is locked behind a paywall or lenghty crafting so i think in the future there should be some rewards attached to maxing out gear slots, ranks, and warframes based on their focus pools and points, ther eshould be some emails or something, i though the naramon school could offer some low latency flares, fireworks, and shuffle cards to find from lockers, after all the players without arcanes or the nifty blasters who go a whiole mission without using their warframes and playhard are just rewarded with regular stuff, nothing that the operator can use, the configurations for the warframe are set per-school but often palyers just gain -o points, unless they join railjack, so i think each mod equiped should function to give random special bonuses not jsut points, but school related bonuses which magnify with focus or per tileset, so its not just a way to get more powerful DPS, but aesthetics, or agility, maybe tenno movement speed and things that u see in sedna but subtle on picking up the yellow ball or defusing a explosive, or locked door, often the operator wont get a bonus on moment speed or team mate abilities unless its from another school, so yea focus on making operator combat and rewards better, that oould mean more syndicate and pvp involvement, cards, items or mods, riven slivers, per-kill, without requiring a large amount of farming knowled, i think its fair to see other types of enemies who can fight like the tenno or block heavy attacks, so we have variety there can be kuba siphons in fortuna and other planets but they dont require a machine so its just the henchmen show up and are optional with a chance at dyes, gemstones, and k-drive guts, mods, and pvp-related items, under the gladiator brand a kuva-branch can be made, if you cant beat them up with transference at least some major recoil and energy is given to the siphon, types of reward on failiure and winning should be increased.

 additional ideas for current melee to include changes to the melee stances and artstyle to function outside of pvp and otherwise have more pet, robotic related rewards, and enemies who appear outside of these modes of syndicacy and pvp, just like the index except the rewards from the index are either predictable or dull currently no tenno / operator reward types are in effect, there should be other color paletes or songs, and stickers, glyphs and things like that per planet since there are so many lockers and repetition, the carbides are alot of mystery maybe lua should get mixed rewards and have more melee only style enemies, or rewards geared on the focus of operating some machinery to convert endo or flowers into various AIR or jumping animations for attacks made with guns and melee to have their own LUAA fashion sense without it being low-gravity so that some of the flowers and areas make more senes, there can be destructible walls and uncontained areas with the change  mechanic and portals which eneies can appear from in chimeral forms, as well as other tenno and syndicay revelent to the mission some ships should come in or not, i like to see the enemies have more personality and reward types, so thats why i think they should be fouind wielding some nakak pearls, or pvp / lunaro itmes and ayatan stars to have other functions or temporary boosters which influccee mobility and slide, combo and playtime in LUA, without a focus lense perhaps some leveling in lua can be affinity boosted or have more focus points given to players who dont have a lense equiped, while perhaps fighting in a hotplace or a volcano applies to another schools focus planet to have the playes fight in their tenno modes and operators more often you should have some special enemies and other style of pickups and functions or passsive traits, i think the school syystem take s WAYYY too long even with the lenses equiped and the pickup iof the yellow ball its a real struggle to getting a player to level up, so you end up with a bunch of S#&$ty tenno and operator mode is not good enough or great to melee unless they have FIRAGA level 4 or something from zenurik equiped blessings, maybe a musical change and robotic version of the ball or a wheel with symbols on melee attacks, while the tenno attacks the plain air and jumps up to slice the air the sounds should be different and the types of status effects to change mid-air,

currently the operators have no slam attacks or anything special without a proper configuration set of amps or arcanes, they can only teleport or use a special equipable skill or passive trait ( which can easily be accidentaly de-equiped) and are very hard to level without GREATER focus lenses) much of the operator and transference fun was in story mode, though kuva siphon is my favorite is not very rewarding or guaranteed to get any good rewards, and now with kuva-lich we are definetly forced to huntdown the kaiser or demons who are infesting the planet, btw it would be great for kuva-lich to get a infested version or powers based on the planet and weather effects to increase their rewards and combat gameplay, they should give special loot for players who try or are under ppresure of the controlled areas outside of just getting stuff stolen, the players try hard and participate and get no good rewrads, just things get stolen.

maybe its time to just add mroe enemy types and rewards per planet,so please use larger enemies who can require melee or are more prone to teno / operator with a good set of rewards based on who or what made the kill and how it was made, this can be pieces of fruit, or i.d cards, keys, mods, pvp items, fashion, scanners, and small amounts of kuva, or fragments, grogdul, archwing and kitgun parts and blueprints inspired by the sectors connected to the lich,

last thing right now in space the biggest problem is that the enemies dont have ggreat rewrards and typidcal loot when they invated, maybe the ship should auto highlight the enemies and give some special functiosns or progress per quarters, there are no particular gates or energy areas to stop enemies from entering any of the cabins, they should have some locked feature or security, even a specter or pet, or NPC, say a robot, tactician is good but yeah theres a need for affinity and tenno related items, or boosters in some of space's combat, i find that i die too easily in my archwing, maybe increase the continues since its already a heavy or difficult scenario, the penalties of death reduced or a way to escape it all together, usualyl a dog or some person wont resusitate the player, so there can be a killmeter or joydrift which like Inaros allows the players to get up with temporary reductiosn to movement speed or hinderances to reload or weapons switching,. slow status efefcs, paralysyss instead of just limping or dragging afoot, a few rewards for fighting in low hp and rescuing, while reviving other team mates also unrewarding for a melee player to stop attackign to help another tenno, so that should be thought out with and hav a goodnght , , 

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oh transferance is a bit laggy i hope maybe we get new types of transferances per school and new passives or powers for each operator without having to gain focus o use any lenses. somewhat of a rewards system like nightwave for the operators to get cosmetics and skilsl, shards, new arcanes and pendants which can trigger in battle per school that is stringing to the squadron, tenno do alot of reviving and is mediocre because it goes unrewraded, 

make revives alot points to the new system for the operator maybe a random school and the focus gains points, but the special system also gains EXP or credits towards the new NPC, but for now syndicacy and pvp boosters and index cards could be fun, or incentive to go into the plains of eidolon for widgets , blasters, amps and new enemies which care about fighting will reward with pvp cards and tenno trinkets for their glinty hats, hair=pins, glyphs, dog things, paddles for pingpong and lunaro incentives, this way going back to the ship or the clans makes sense.

i dont think there are enough bounties in fortuna and cetus or NPC with great purpose alot is locked behind the points and day sytem which without an archwing alot ofo players whoo just get started get frustrated and quit easily most players are using a skana and throwing daggers or a boltor so its easi to make some sets of temporary pickups which increase the fire rate and lenghten the gameplay of the missions on earth venus and the surrounding areas if they fight a big kuva guy or perform some actions of deactivating and spy missions because of the parazon downloading and scanning should also allow some players to obtain revelant boosters to movement affinity and speed , zoom, targeting, and other melee bonuses, which can fit in with opening lockers and defeating enemies with assist and ones where either teh tenno or pet/rpbot completes the win, what i see is that the extraction point takes priority and players are forced to leaving the mission with the party, so maybe you can have some way for some players to leave right away at extraction with various rewards, robotics and guards added, especially for players with railjacks and time restriction keys,and affinity boostesrs, dragon keys, or items equiped, operator extraction, etc. Its a good place for adding more intro and exit animations and reweards or temporary boosters,

maybe something like a challenge whch pleaese time attack players who speed run, and otehr rewards for players who like to explore. while the other players who go without using noise or being discovered, or playing as a tenno/oprator get their own type of points and focus towards items and gear on the newarby relay and planet based feature per tileset, vampire mode is not enough.

 

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