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(PS4)sweatshawp

Players Hate balance in Warframe

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1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

De hasn’t really been neglecting the state of balance.

In small part they have.
We got all sorts of augments, got primed mods, new primed versions and vandal/wraith/prisma..

In large part, I'm sure they're thinking,
"FFS! We haven't even put the whole story out there yet!
There's so many more chapters to this story, and so many
other things we want to do besides tweak damage stats on
a weapon like 30 people gobally will main at Best!
It's utter business suicide if nothing else to just tweak the
pre existing things Over and Over until Everyone is pleased..
which is most likely Entirely impossible to do."

Well, I'm not sure of that.. but I would be if I was them.

We're about to be capitol ship captaining missions on entirely new tile sets,
with entirely new enemy mechanics across several game style and variants..
They're some busy dudes.

How do you even balance the stats on a Halikar when people can still find
new ways of clipping through the floors??
How would ANY of us handle that as the developer of this game?
Especially with the flak we give them.. good Grief.
We'd all quit. Not a single doubt in my mind.
Yet, as a team, they're still coding one of the largest and most amazing human
achievements that we have ever known.. and here we are whooping and
hollering about which fodder gun sucks most.

Good thread, btw.
Sweatshawp, you're good peeps.

You can't please everyone, and I gotta give
DE props for hanging in and still doing what they can.

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it's not that people hate balance but this changes prioritize form over function and are completely useless for a game like warframe. I'm really gonna enjoy getting one shotted while ''combo-ing'' an enemy xd

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9 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

But in Singleplayer and Cooperative experiences, balance simply means that the things in the game aren't breaking the game, either directly or through causing problems elsewhere. No system is in isolation. A lot of the most powerful things, whilst they may be fun in a 'ah yeah, look at all the STUFF and NUMBERS' way, aren't healthy in the long run. They cause other issues.

What do you define as breaking the game though? Cause Limbo isn't, Saryn isn't, old Tonkor and Miragulor weren't... I think bugged Chroma was, but that got fixed. So, what do you mean exactly? Just the subjective "I don't like this thing cause it steals my kills"? Cause, yeah, that's very subjective, so how exactly do you balance around that, especially when this community seems pretty split on the issue of "Challenge vs Being a god".

Like, the objective "breaking the game" thing doesn't seem to happen too often in this game. Nothing seems to be quite capable of running outside of the programmed parameters, and when it does, like bugged Chroma, eventually it gets patched. But the design decision of being a power fantasy is not game-breaking, it's a design decision.

Finally, to answer you first questions:

15 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Do you like it when DE introduces a dozen new resource types with every large content drop?

As long as they're not useless, yeah, I'm fine with them.

16 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Do you like it when one person's fun stops your own?

Never happened to me. Even when people were running Greedy Mag, Blinding Miragulors or Spore Saryns, I just sat back and enjoyed, cause at the end of the day, whether they were the ones doing the killing or I was the one doing the killing, we were all still working towards the same goal.

18 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Do you like having rewards be useless fodder?

Generally don't care about rewards as long as I'm having fun. If I actually find them to be useless, it's probably because I'm a retard and forgot to check the drop tables, so I was hoping for a drop that is not part of the drop table to drop (Hello, Gauss' weapons that I hoped to get from Sedna).

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Just now, CodeUltimate said:

I'm really gonna enjoy getting one shotted while ''combo-ing'' an enemy xd

lol, that is a good point.
Maybe that's next on the docket for DE.

You know if we stop getting One Shotted, a thousand more people
pop up to raise hell about how it's, "Too easy now and so boring!"

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1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

lol, that is a good point.
Maybe that's next on the docket for DE.

You know if we stop getting One Shotted, a thousand more people
pop up to raise hell about how it's, "Too easy now and so boring!"

another thing I don't really find useful is the heavy attack, why would I want to build melee combo to one shot a fodder mob? xd

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1 minute ago, CodeUltimate said:

why would I want to build melee combo to one shot a fodder mob?

My 700,000+ Grineer kills don't see the problem.

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Just now, kapn655321 said:

My 700,000+ Grineer kills don't see the problem.

I mean I don't think it will be fun to build up damage just to unleash it into a heavy attack, I really don't see it working for a game like warframe...

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11 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

lol, that is a good point.
Maybe that's next on the docket for DE.

You know if we stop getting One Shotted, a thousand more people
pop up to raise hell about how it's, "Too easy now and so boring!"

Risk vs. Reward. It's been a thing for quite some time. If you're gonna be in an enemies face, you're gonna get smacked. 

It's almost like you have to be tactical and move around a bit. It's almost like this game gives you the freedom to move around.

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7 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

I mean I don't think it will be fun to build up damage just to unleash it into a heavy attack, I really don't see it working for a game like warframe...

Maybe not currently.

The whole enemy armor/ melee system is off center.
Once this launches, if heavy attack has no purpose,
they'll workshop that like they've been doing with everything else.

I mean, that's the hope.
Heavy attack has it's own damage stat now,
so it will be easier to fix Just that in the future

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

If you're gonna be in an enemies face, you're gonna get smacked.

With one shotted, I was thinking of the combat as a whole.
You can get 1 shotted from over 140m away on high bounties on the open worlds.
Or like the grineer flame thrower units could one shot many frames on launch through walls.
Or lvl 60 toxic ancients belching on you in squishy frames.
There are a number of examples I was thinking for getting one shotted that hadn't involved
deliberately taking my chances to be too close.
It's exists in some moments, sure.
The ideal would be a tight risk/reward, surely
This is not a perfect game, and can get plenty janky when it wants to!
😃

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11 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

What do you define as breaking the game though? Cause Limbo isn't, Saryn isn't, old Tonkor and Miragulor weren't... I think bugged Chroma was, but that got fixed. So, what do you mean exactly? Just the subjective "I don't like this thing cause it steals my kills"? Cause, yeah, that's very subjective, so how exactly do you balance around that, especially when this community seems pretty split on the issue of "Challenge vs Being a god".

Like, the objective "breaking the game" thing doesn't seem to happen too often in this game. Nothing seems to be quite capable of running outside of the programmed parameters, and when it does, like bugged Chroma, eventually it gets patched. But the design decision of being a power fantasy is not game-breaking, it's a design decision.

Breaking the game is, well - causing problems. Like Hyperinflation, or allowing players to automate an action game. 'it stealing my kills' is a straw man version of another - of effectively taking away gameplay. Kill stealing is always going to be a thing. Having no enemies to kill in the first place because some bucko with a drinking bird and Volt has them all dead before you see them is quite another thing.

11 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

As long as they're not useless, yeah, I'm fine with them.

And how much use do you have for Plains resources? Orb Vallis resources? Oh, sure, they were important when they were introduced, but nowadays?  Not so much. Hell, how many weapons after the release of those two updates use 'rare' starchart resources as their major limiting factor - or at least, how many have you noticed? They have all fallen victim to accretion to deal with Hyperinflation, either directly or pre-emptively.

And that's not the only thing. Timegates, low drop rates for parts, standing grinds - all of these things are also implemented to dodge the hyperinflation that any combat-related resource has.

13 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Never happened to me. Even when people were running Greedy Mag, Blinding Miragulors or Spore Saryns, I just sat back and enjoyed, cause at the end of the day, whether they were the ones doing the killing or I was the one doing the killing, we were all still working towards the same goal.

Lucky you, your definition of fun falls into effectively idle games, which is what this pretty much comes to - the joy of watching numbers go up. Nothing wrong with that in theory, but it causes problems because Warframe isn't an idle game, it's an action game with RPG elements.

Besides, your idea of fun isn't everyone else's.

16 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Generally don't care about rewards as long as I'm having fun. If I actually find them to be useless, it's probably because I'm a retard and forgot to check the drop tables, so I was hoping for a drop that is not part of the drop table to drop (Hello, Gauss' weapons that I hoped to get from Sedna).

Me neither, but again, fun is subjective. Just as you might be worried that what you consider fun will be reduced by these changes other people are having their fun taken away. Why are you more important than them?

 

And besides, let's be real here - you're far more likely to run into someone with an Ignis than a Dread. The latter deals a lot more damage, but it requires more engagement. You've posited that players will always chase the most powerful option - this isn't entirely true. They will chase the most efficient one. In some senses, the Dread is more powerful than the Ignis - it deals more damage, it has more range, but because of the Ignis's poor design which pretty much removes all but the most negligible of weaknesses in terms of practical application, it is a far more efficient option. And the Ignis doesn't require very much engagement, whereas the Dread presents several aiming challenges (travel time and projectile drop). Ignis, you point in vaguely the right direction and things die.

For a poignant example - remember when the Tigris Prime was considered the best weapon in the game by a large part of the playerbase? This absolute pinnacle of OP weapons that oneshots most of the game? It still does - it's not been nerfed to my knowledge. It's been buried because it's a balanced weapon. Ignis, Memeing Strike Atterax, Maim - they aren't. And, yes, Maim serves the role as a weapon, it kills things, dividing abilities and weapons into separate balance debates isn't helping - again, no system is made in isolation, and no weapon or ability is either.

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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I'd say players aren't against balance, they're *against* seeing their weapons nerfed to get said balance, a subtle but big difference imo. 

DE needs to bring weaker weapons up to the 'meta' and then balance around the overall higher damage outputs of weapons rather than their usual approach of balance which usually ends up nerfing something.... same effect of balance but without the actual 'appearance' of nerfing the weapons we own. 

Having said that armor scaling does probably need looking at still. 

I'm against hitting everything with a nerf bat because someone on the forum thinks warframe should be more like destiny or whatever. "Balance" isnt automatically fun.

2 hours ago, BansheePrime said:

Ah yes. The normal obligatory explanation of don't nerf the 1 buff the 99. 

It's a valid point.

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

All that would do is exacerbate the problem of power creep trivializing most of the game.

As long as the players can deal hundreds to thousands of times more damage than what is needed to kill 99% of enemies in less than one second there will be no way to actually design anything that has any staying power without having to resort to outright immunity to damage, caps on damage, absurd levels of damage reduction, status immunity, ability immunity and so on.

When power creep reaches a point where it starts to cause parts of the game to need to be disabled to not be over in seconds it has gone too far.

Heres a crazy idea. Maybe they should re evaluate enemy scaling. That way maybe they can find a way to solve that "problem" without S#&$ting on everyone.

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1 hour ago, Gabbynaru said:

That's only really needed in a competitive environment. Why would it be needed in a cooperative one, when all people share the same goal, and the faster they achieve it, the better?

Imagine if every gun simply dealt the damage cap each bullet/pellet regardless of mods.  How is that fun in any way, shape, or form.  Balance is important.  

People don't understand design and development decisions, plain and simple.  They think oh just do this completely overpowered thing to X, it will be fine.  Oh wait, it isn't fine because now every single person with the overpowered thing uses just that thing and nothing else.  Remember mirage simulor back in the day?  Tons of people abused that interaction, so they nerfed it and I'm glad they did so I don't keep hearing that damned noise over and over.  

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30 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Breaking the game is, well - causing problems. Like Hyperinflation, or allowing players to automate an action game. 'it stealing my kills' is a straw man version of another - of effectively taking away gameplay. Kill stealing is always going to be a thing. Having no enemies to kill in the first place because some bucko with a drinking bird and Volt has them all dead before you see them is quite another thing.

Doesn't that fall under bad design though? Like, you can have a Volt and Mesa combo melt things instantly, without wiping the entire map. Sure, probably the laziest route to take is to just nerf that combo into the ground, but... that just sounds like bad spawn points and spawn rates, and that can be fixed through better map and ability design without nerfing abilities into the ground.

30 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

And how much use do you have for Plains resources? Orb Vallis resources? Oh, sure, they were important when they were introduced, but nowadays?

I dunno, maybe that's just a matter of expectations, but I never expected them to be useful forever. Heck, I can't remember the last time I used Orokin Cells or Mutagen Samples, and those have been in the game since... forever. I just label them under progression, get the resources, use the resources, get the items, discard the resources and move on to the next set. They're not useless, they just don't have long life span. Once again, that falls well into the bad design area, rather than balance.

30 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Lucky you, your definition of fun falls into effectively idle games, which is what this pretty much comes to - the joy of watching numbers go up. Nothing wrong with that in theory, but it causes problems because Warframe isn't an idle game, it's an action game with RPG elements.

Besides, your idea of fun isn't everyone else's.

Maybe I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean it in the sense that I was leeching, I meant it in the sense that I was still throwing my weight around, if enemies escaped the player using the OP combo, I was there to pick up the pieces. I wasn't bothered by them doing most of the killing... or heck, to affirm your thoughts, I'm not bothered by modern Saryn getting all the killings either. It's still leading me towards the end-goal of the mission, so yeah, even if the game gets to the point where I can stay idle, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself.

30 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Why are you more important than them?

Why are they more important than me? Frankly, none of us are important. But just like they can feel like something is ruining their fun and suggest changes, I can also feel that their changes take away my fun and defend it. At the end of the day, it's not really up to us, it's up to DE, and all we do is share our view points on matters. Whether DE listens or not is another mater, but there's no point in remaining silent regardless of where you sit on the fence, as long as DE doesn't make their position clear.

11 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Imagine if every gun simply dealt the damage cap each bullet/pellet regardless of mods.  How is that fun in any way, shape, or form.

You literally described a fully balanced environment. "When everything is special, nothing is." So you yourself agree that balance is not fun.

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  • People complain when they are "forced" to use the same equipment over and over.
  • People complain when content isn't engaging.
  • People complain when things are nerfed.
  • People complain when things are buffed.
  • People complain when DE makes content they don't personally like.
  • People complain when they have to play the game.
  • People complain when they don't have a reason to play the game.
  • People complain when people complain.
  • people complain when people don't complain.
  • People complain when...

Moral of the story, it is far more useful to dissect why people say things than take them for face value. Also people like to complain

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3 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Doesn't that fall under bad design though? Like, you can have a Volt and Mesa combo melt things instantly, without wiping the entire map. Sure, probably the laziest route to take is to just nerf that combo into the ground, but... that just sounds like bad spawn points and spawn rates, and that can be fixed through better map and ability design without nerfing abilities into the ground.

I dunno, maybe that's just a matter of expectations, but I never expected them to be useful forever. Heck, I can't remember the last time I used Orokin Cells or Mutagen Samples, and those have been in the game since... forever. I just label them under progression, get the resources, use the resources, get the items, discard the resources and move on to the next set. They're not useless, they just don't have long life span. Once again, that falls well into the bad design area, rather than balance.

Maybe I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean it in the sense that I was leeching, I meant it in the sense that I was still throwing my weight around, if enemies escaped the player using the OP combo, I was there to pick up the pieces. I wasn't bothered by them doing most of the killing... or heck, to affirm your thoughts, I'm not bothered by modern Saryn getting all the killings either. It's still leading me towards the end-goal of the mission, so yeah, even if the game gets to the point where I can stay idle, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself.

Why are they more important than me? Frankly, none of us are important. But just like they can feel like something is ruining their fun and suggest changes, I can also feel that their changes take away my fun and defend it. At the end of the day, it's not really up to us, it's up to DE, and all we do is share our view points on matters. Whether DE listens or not is another mater, but there's no point in remaining silent regardless of where you sit on the fence, as long as DE doesn't make their position clear.

You literally described a fully balanced environment. "When everything is special, nothing is." So you yourself agree that balance is not fun.

Not exactly balanced, semi automatic weapons are useless and the only useable weapons if everything dealt damage cap are automatic weapons with a high fire rate and a lot of spread to hit as much enemies at once as possible.  So basically kohm with vicious spread on it.  Again, if you simply 1 shot everything in warframe a lot of people are going to call the game broken, which you clearly do not get.  

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Just now, Gabbynaru said:

Doesn't that fall under bad design though? Like, you can have a Volt and Mesa combo melt things instantly, without wiping the entire map. Sure, probably the laziest route to take is to just nerf that combo into the ground, but... that just sounds like bad spawn points and spawn rates, and that can be fixed through better map and ability design without nerfing abilities into the ground.

This is the truth, but not the whole truth. As I've said, nothing is designed in isolation.

Spawn points, map design - the undoubtedly have an impact, and a not inconsiderable one. You only have to look at the Jupiter defence tile rework for that. But it's not the only thing. Nor are the abilities themselves - the energy system, and the frequency of use of those abilities are too. Volt's 4, especially, was very clearly designed for a time when energy was at far more of a premium.

All of these things are elements of balance. All of these things need to be considered. Considering the possibility that Volt or Mesa might need to get nerfed as the 'lazy way out' is reductive.

7 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

dunno, maybe that's just a matter of expectations, but I never expected them to be useful forever. Heck, I can't remember the last time I used Orokin Cells or Mutagen Samples, and those have been in the game since... forever. I just label them under progression, get the resources, use the resources, get the items, discard the resources and move on to the next set. They're not useless, they just don't have long life span. Once again, that falls well into the bad design area, rather than balance.

You say that like 'bad design' and 'balance' are two separate things. But, I'm afraid they're not. The pace at which resources can be gathered is related to the manner in which they are gathered. When they can be gathered passively, especially in very high quantities, then inevitably, the inflation rate is going to skyrocket even faster. Inflation is inevitable in a game like this, and balance isn't the only thing to blame - but saying that abilities that let players put in little-to-no effort and reap massive rewards have no impact on it is just denial.

10 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Maybe I phrased that wrong. I didn't mean it in the sense that I was leeching, I meant it in the sense that I was still throwing my weight around, if enemies escaped the player using the OP combo, I was there to pick up the pieces. I wasn't bothered by them doing most of the killing... or heck, to affirm your thoughts, I'm not bothered by modern Saryn getting all the killings either. It's still leading me towards the end-goal of the mission, so yeah, even if the game gets to the point where I can stay idle, it doesn't bother me. Yeah, it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I never claimed to speak for anyone but myself.

 

10 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Why are they more important than me? Frankly, none of us are important. But just like they can feel like something is ruining their fun and suggest changes, I can also feel that their changes take away my fun and defend it. At the end of the day, it's not really up to us, it's up to DE, and all we do is share our view points on matters. Whether DE listens or not is another mater, but there's no point in remaining silent regardless of where you sit on the fence, as long as DE doesn't make their position clear

As we're both aware, fun is subjective.

But balance? Its problems are Objective. Consider the new player experience. Accretion to counteract hyperinflation actively makes learning the ropes harder, and the rate at which it happens makes new tutorials to help deal with that - because they'll be incomplete before long. Vor's Prize has stood up surprisingly well, but it definitely does not prepare you for the experience Warframe is nowadays. Especially not for how many different resource types and acquisition methods, they're going to have to remember. That makes it harder for people to adopt Warframe, that's just fact.

You brought up progression earlier. As-is, we've sort of reached the endgoal you argued against - progression doesn't matter any more, because we have nowhere else to go. You yourself said you don't actually care about rewards, right? A good chunk of the Playerbase agrees. We can turn off an entire map - we can kill entire levels before the levels see us either literally through permanent invisibility (AKA, 'will never die') or through nuking them. Where can you go from there? How much more powerful can you be? The only way to make progression matter again is to either start bringing new content up (which, TNW Sentients and Kuva Liches), or to start bringing the power down so individual items have more of a chance at offering progress, even if it's progress on a more 'per playstyle' level. Or both. Both is good.

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2 hours ago, BansheePrime said:

Ah yes. The normal obligatory explanation of don't nerf the 1 buff the 99. 

I mean, in the vast majority of cases its the correct approach if the 1 is balanced for the rest of the equation while the 99 are not.
Extreme power creep outliers like zaws and kitguns (and a few of the recent primes like gram) where the numbers jump by 30% from prior peak certainly should be nerfed, but in a system where you need 15 hits to get to what something else gets right away and that 15 hits needs to be repeated every time you go for more than 3 seconds (or 45 hits and 13 seconds) buffs when it comes to melee on a weapon by weapon basis are better.

At least unless DE rework armor and enemy scaling (or either give warframes a floor of inaros like EHP base at rank 30 to keep up or remove all scaling in general while dropping how multipliers stack as the difference of 4 to 12 damage on 60 hp  isnt as drastic (if armor is still % reduction) as the of 4k damage (melee with just base setup and combo) vs 12k (prior case with blood rush organ instead of elemental and 1 attack speed) vs 90k damage (good kitgun build dps and pre-zaw era top meme strike melee dps at 2.5x multi) vs 64k ehp of a level 45 bombard).

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3 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Yeah. It's a PvE game, who needs it? Like, today I saw an article about Borderlands 3 (I think, might have been Destiny 2) nerfing a gun and I facepalmed. Like, who cares, it's a single player game, let the people have their fun.

Balance is fun in a competitive environment simply because if the others you're going up against would have equipment much more powerful than you do, then you'd be pushed away, and so will anyone coming up against that scenario. But in PvE? Who the flip cares? You don't see Guppy being nerfed in Binding of Isaac, the spring or mines nerfed in Carmageddon or Ghandi's nukes nerfed in Civ, so why should balance be brought into a game where competition doesn't exist? It's way more fun to be powerful than it is to suck, even if everyone else sucks as well.

Warframe is also a multiplayer game as well, and every multiplayer game should strive for balance so there is variety in acceptably viable play styles, otherwise people will get frustrating and quit, either due to boredom, getting tired of being carried or because they are frustrated they cannot play the style they want.  Balance, while never perfect, should be a goal of every game and to be honest “it’s a pve game!” Just screams “don’t nerf me, bro!” 
 

Also food for thought, when you say “I” when talking about game mechanics in a game like warframe, your opinion or example is useless because it’s more than you playing.  Nerfs and buffs affect everyone, so any change or lack of change should have everyone in mind.  

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Oh please they don't hate balance, they fear change and impulsively jump on any fear mongering bandwagon they see when they can because its easier than foresight. hating balance would require fully understanding what balance is about and its full effects including the end result, not just blind terror at the notion of the word, or particular words in association with it. but that's just the internet in general.

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Players don't hate balance, 

They are just used to the imbalance and dislike change overall unless it is benefiting them. 

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Not to mention there's no such thing as balance in the game with 40 frames and over 100 weapons.

Acceptable balance:  why are you playing chroma in spy?  
 

unacceptable balance:  why aren’t you playing Saryn in ESO? 
 

it’s a fine difference but it’s there 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Risk vs. Reward. It's been a thing for quite some time. If you're gonna be in an enemies face, you're gonna get smacked. 

It's almost like you have to be tactical and move around a bit. It's almost like this game gives you the freedom to move around.

Melee isn't a risk vs reward situation. Melee isn't the most efficient way to kill enemies in many situations, which removes the reward aspect from the equation. The only point in using melee is if you enjoy the way it plays.

Which is why there's typically a lot of complaints over the melee changes. The changes have all been purely about how "cool" playing melee looks, or shifting melee into a supportive position like it is for generic shooters, rather than how it feels to play, as well is fixing the efficiency problem that led people into Maiming Strike builds in the first place.

I personally don't care for melee to look cool with a bunch of effects and animations as a priority, the game is too fast and focused on slaughtering hordes for it to be a priority, and eventually the effects are unnoticed anyways.

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7 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

...nerfing a gun and I facepalmed. Like, who cares, it's a single player game, let the people have their fun.

Balance is fun in a competitive environment simply because if the others you're going up against would have equipment much more powerful than you do, then you'd be pushed away, and so will anyone coming up against that scenario. But in PvE? Who the flip cares? ...why should balance be brought into a game where competition doesn't exist?

Simple answer: to encourage players to play with more of what the game has to offer, rather than just spamming the best strat.

Longer answer: many gamers will go for optimization over actual fun or enjoyment, to the point where much of a game is done away with if it's considered sub-optimal. To quote game designer Soren Johnson: "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of the game." For example (in Warframe), old Ash had the Bladestorm build made to spam his 4 endlessly while ignoring other powers. It was obnoxious and boring, but it cleared rooms with no effort, so it was really popular.

For an example outside Warframe, Destiny 1 had this big rocket launcher you could get, which was leaps and bounds stronger than any other gun. The game just became "get that gun and spam it", and that was it, never mind other features.

For another example outside Warframe, DnD has an optional rule called "flanking", where if allies stand on opposite sides of an enemy they both get a significant buff to their attacks. While this rule does make players position more creatively, it quickly becomes a game of "pincer the enemy", and the strength of flanking overlaps a bunch of other player features, effectively erasing them from use.

TL;DR: nerfing signifcant powerful outliers in a game is beneficial for the game's overall health, encouraging players to mix up their tactics and play "Warframe" instead of just playing "Bladestorm: the Game".

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