Is slash too strong?

[844448]

Well, if you look at slash damage, you get bleed as proc where you get a portion of total damage per tick and they stack.

If compared to gas, the toxin proc from gas also stack but somehow only deals as much damage as how high the number dealt on enemy, means at high level, enemies with armor make gas effectiveness drops unless I made some mistakes on the build

On top of massive DoT potential (I can get 18k bleed with hunter munitions on vectis prime when I only deal a fraction of it on a headshot) and they stack, making slash a king on any level.

Is it too strong or game breaking? My thought is giving a proposal on changing how bleed effect works. Instead of stacking, you refresh the duration like other elements, making slash not too far ahead compared to other elements

Any thoughts on this?

[BlackVortex]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Well, if you look at slash damage, you get bleed as proc where you get a portion of total damage per tick and they stack.

If compared to gas, the toxin proc from gas also stack but somehow only deals as much damage as how high the number dealt on enemy, means at high level, enemies with armor make gas effectiveness drops unless I made some mistakes on the build

On top of massive DoT potential (I can get 18k bleed with hunter munitions on vectis prime when I only deal a fraction of it on a headshot) and they stack, making slash a king on any level.

Is it too strong or game breaking? My thought is giving a proposal on changing how bleed effect works. Instead of stacking, you refresh the duration like other elements, making slash not too far ahead compared to other elements

Any thoughts on this?

Slash procs ignore armor, gas/toxin/heat procs do not
Slash is calculated of the base damage whereas gas/toxin/heat is calculated of the end-damage

Slash is right where it should be, perhaps the others might need a buff minus gas because it procs AOE

[Melanholic7]

i doubt slash is op, maybe other procs are weak. Even tho, im mr 36 and never used slash build. So, there are plenty of really strong things in game, and slash isnt the strongest one. 

[844448]

10 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

Slash procs ignore armor, gas/toxin/heat procs do not
Slash is calculated of the base damage whereas gas/toxin/heat is calculated of the end-damage

Slash is right where it should be, perhaps the others might need a buff minus gas because it procs AOE

The proc stacking though, it's insane that you can put 10 bleed counter at once, making the numbers pop out of control

[belanya]

Nah its pretty fine.

Its not that big.

It just scale of the base slash damage (or base damage for hm) so its not that huge by itself.

You need so much to make it good that its normal if its strong.

You need to combo with viral and any kind of melee combo multiplier, crit, condition overload, stealth multiplier, body parts multiplier (headshot), many warframe buff/debuff, auras, damage mods, faction mods, arcanes...

Yeah very fine.

Joke aside, yes this is the most broken damage type in the game.

Gas, with 4 cp or against non grineer is good and you can use faction mods to greatly increase your dps.

[BlackVortex]

12 minutes ago, belanya said:

Nah its pretty fine.

Its not that big.

It just scale of the base slash damage (or base damage for hm) so its not that huge by itself.

You need so much to make it good that its normal if its strong.

You need to combo with viral and any kind of melee combo multiplier, crit, condition overload, stealth multiplier, body parts multiplier (headshot), many warframe buff/debuff, auras, damage mods, faction mods, arcanes...

Yeah very fine.

Joke aside, yes this is the most broken damage type in the game.

Gas, with 4 cp or against non grineer is good and you can use faction mods to greatly increase your dps.

it's only broken because of the existence of a broken infinite armor scaling

[0_The_F00l]

Bleed damage is true damage (directly affects the HP of the target) and is calculated without any armor modifiers. 

Making it the preferred damage type irrespective of faction. 

I do feel it is over powered / other procs are too weak in comparison. 

[SneakyErvin]

Slash is currently a desired stat because armor scaling is simply in a whack position. If armor got rebalanced, then slash wouldnt be a bandaid solution for many high level mobs while the other DoTs would increase in use since there is less armor to struggle with in order to be effective.

Is it OP? Well yes in the current state of the game. But it is also one of the bandaids.

IMO rescale armor by either giving it a cap or simply giving all mobs their max armor from level 1 with zero scaling. Then lower slash damage, increase fire and toxin a bit, remove CP and other auras like it. Could possibly tune down corrosive's armor strip a great deal aswell and get people to use frames that can remove armor more often. We have so many options currently but it tends to be CP or corrosive setup in the end. Some of it needs to go.

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Bleed damage is true damage (directly affects the HP of the target) and is calculated without any armor modifiers. 

Making it the preferred damage type irrespective of faction. 

I do feel it is over powered / other procs are too weak in comparison. 

against grineer it is most certainly the best proc, versus corpus toxin/gas is better (aside from a few armored robotics) and against infested heat is probably the best way to go(in terms of damage per tick)

the only problem is this: if you are looking for a go-to loadout for any enemy(or corrupted where you will face grineer, infested and corpus), then gas/toxin will do nearly nothing against high level armored targets and neither will heat, where slash works on pretty much any enemy

[BlackVortex]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Slash is currently a desired stat because armor scaling is simply in a whack position. If armor got rebalanced, then slash wouldnt be a bandaid solution for many high level mobs while the other DoTs would increase in use since there is less armor to struggle with in order to be effective.

Is it OP? Well yes in the current state of the game. But it is also one of the bandaids.

IMO rescale armor by either giving it a cap or simply giving all mobs their max armor from level 1 with zero scaling. Then lower slash damage, increase fire and toxin a bit, remove CP and other auras like it. Could possibly tune down corrosive's armor strip a great deal aswell and get people to use frames that can remove armor more often. We have so many options currently but it tends to be CP or corrosive setup in the end. Some of it needs to go.

with the ember rework, heat will be able to strip armor too

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Yes. Bleed status effects are effectively overkill in their present state. It makes any other comparative damage-over-time effect far weaker in comparison even if the values those other effects bring are still objectively valuable within the games average play-space. It's a consistent claim seen on here over and over: "Stunning/debuffing the enemy is pointless when they can just be killed instead." Slash effects are a means to bypass any hindrance the enemy combatant might be intended to have, whether it's shields or armour, and tools made to combat these are either (A) only used if they can be used in conjunction with Slash (Such as Viral or Gas), or ignored altogether.

Slash effects are only a necessity for killing enemies at levels far above what is standard and intended. Below 120, it's purely overkill for anything that isn't a Bombard or Gunner and even then those enemies are no issue to take down should the player be decently equipped to handle that faction/enemy type.

Edited October 19, 2019 by (XB1)RPColten
additions

[Diangelius]

1 hour ago, Melanholic7 said:

 Even tho, im mr 36 

Woah, really ? Show me how you did it senpai !!

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, BlackVortex said:

with the ember rework, heat will be able to strip armor too

I'm still waiting for a real confirmation on that so it isnt "just" something that applies to Ember.

Edited October 19, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[bibmobello]

Slash proc is good only VS grineers (excluding nox) because they are more susceptible to bleeding than other factions. But here again, on normal "levels" you will not see any differences...

[taiiat]

you mustn't forget Weakpoint Crits and Anti-Faction Mods for any sort of DoT ofcourse.

but uh, Gas can still be effective vs fairly high Level Armored Enemies, even through their Armor. the strength of the DoT is such that it can still deal notable Damage in such a scenario, times when other non ideal Damage Types would be hitting for single Digit numbers.
this is partially because of the number of Multipliers you can use for Gas, and partially because of Ferrite Armor being susceptible to Toxin Damage. obviously this doesn't apply to Alloy Armor so not every Armored Enemy but it's still worth mentioning.

 

2 hours ago, 844448 said:

Instead of stacking, you refresh the duration like other elements

literally only Fire Status doesn't stack currently. and it's a part of why it's considered to be a useless DoT.

45 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Slash proc is good only VS grineers

that is not true, Slash Status is effective vs everything that isn't invulnerable. it's impossible to be resistant to Slash Status unless the target is just completely invulnerable. even vs Bosses that have special DR, it's still effective vs them since they take reduced Damage from everything equally so it's all the same relationship just with lower numbers.

[bibmobello]

7 minutes ago, taiiat said:

 

that is not true, Slash Status is effective vs everything that isn't invulnerable. it's impossible to be resistant to Slash Status unless the target is just completely invulnerable. even vs Bosses that have special DR, it's still effective vs them since they take reduced Damage from everything equally so it's all the same relationship just with lower numbers.

Yes i know that  but i continue to write that grineers are more prone to bleeding than other factions and Corps are weaker to gas procs. On "retard"(30-40 the max i have seen in DE videos) levels everyone can use even magnetic and kill a nox,  there is no difference at all.

Edited October 19, 2019 by bibmobello

[R3dL0tus]

I don't see slash as being too strong, I see it as the other types being too weak. 

[Melanholic7]

2 часа назад, Diangelius сказал:

Woah, really ? Show me how you did it senpai !!

oh shi 😄 ye, i meant 46 of course 😮

[taiiat]

11 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Yes i know that  but i continue to write that grineers are more prone to bleeding than other factions and Corps are weaker to gas procs.

only Corpus Crewman type Enemies change things. vs every other type of Enemy, Slash Status is unequivocally the DoT of choice. but that's a pretty hyperspecific case to make, for a single Enemy (Techs, Modular Corpus, Et Cetera - since normal Crewman are Trash Units and anything Kills them fine).
ofcourse, Gas is the best Elemental choice for DoT, but that wasn't the subject.

[GPrime96]

The reason Slash is stronger is how it’s affects Health while not being interrupted against Armor since it does True Damage. Toxin is slowed downed by Armor even though both does Damage Over Time against Health which make Gas more effective against Corpus while Slash is better against Corrupted and Grineer when they are reaching 99.5% or higher DR. 

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Slash is amazing simply because almost all the other procs suck in comparison.  Puncture used to at least be viable when it ignored armor like slash procs currently do but then they nerfed that and impact is garbo.  As for elementals, yeah gas sucks vs armored targets.  More of a symptom of broken armor scaling then anything else.  

[(PSN)O_o_II_II_o_O]

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm still waiting for a real confirmation on that so it isnt "just" something that applies to Ember.

Likewise, as Frost and Gauss being able to strip didn't suddenly make cold or blast strip armour

[Talinthis]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)O_o_II_II_o_O said:

Likewise, as Frost and Gauss being able to strip didn't suddenly make cold or blast strip armour

They said in the stream that heat element is changing entirely, and not just for ember

[-CdG-Zilchy]

22 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

im mr 36 

Tell us your secret.