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-CM-AbsoluteZero

Kohm rivens needs to be nerfed

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Yes. but as DE said, despite the fact that the dispo it has neither matches it's power or it's popularity, they have arbitrarily decided not to change it. 
 

imo a riven shouldn't be what makes a weapon usable or not. By not balancing like all other weapons, DE is basically admitting that they are gatekeeping kohm being viable unless the user is also an owner of a SC riven for it. They are basically saying you need a specific riven or the gun is S#&$. (it's actually not even that bad). Artifically inflating the plat prices as a result.

Why DE say they balance for 0-100lvl ish and after that, not really, then on the other hand turn around  and decide that a gun needs to have a high dispo, so it's viable at +100 enemy even though it's fine even with out a riven for sortie lvl, no one can figure out.

 I say that as an owner of a detron and kohm riven

Edited by Ghogiel
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This just reminded me that Kohmak and Twin Kohmak exist, and now so does arcane Pistoleer...

Pretty sure I have a high dispo riven for one of those too...

Thanks angry guy for giving me a new idea!

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2 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I haven't even see people using a rubico during thousand of missions? Why has it been nerfed? And seriously i don't give a fk about rivens because i don't even use these weapons but in every other game, first you need to get a decent weapon and then a decent roll to be used in the endgame. Here there is no endgame and the only point for many people is to get useless stats at the end of the missions with stupid weapons, even more stupid because many of them are useless on long runs(the only endgame here) because are high ammo inefficient or because without stats you will not kill anything. This is the typical GGG Girls Guns and Greedy politics but without girls...

I see rubico in almost every eidolon hunt. Often 2 or 3 players using it. 

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Nah, just remove rivens entirely.

Nuke them from orbit and never look back.

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3 hours ago, bibmobello said:

It's triggered because even other weapons become unusable(on long endurance) when they have been nerfed. I don't see many people using a tiberon anymore and i don't fkn understand why a MR  5 weapon should be more powerful than a MR14 weapon only because some "mafioso" riven said so.

It's the same with mesa when hundred of crying retards complained on the forum to make the arcane works with peacemaker and DE immediately changed idea...

A kohm riven with 120+ status can hit 100% status chance before multishot with 3 dual stat mods. Even 119% status chance wont do that. Because of this, there is a huge difference in both performance of the riven and the value of the riven between even those two numbers. DE has refused to change it because they dont want to make such a sudden, drastic change to any particular riven. They want gradual changed, if anything. It isnt for some arbitrary reason its out of respect for the players who rely on them for status builds.

2 hours ago, bibmobello said:

I haven't even see people using a rubico during thousand of missions? Why has it been nerfed? And seriously i don't give a fk about rivens because i don't even use these weapons but in every other game, first you need to get a decent weapon and then a decent roll to be used in the endgame. Here there is no endgame and the only point for many people is to get useless stats at the end of the missions with stupid weapons, even more stupid because many of them are useless on long runs(the only endgame here) because are high ammo inefficient or because without stats you will not kill anything. This is the typical GGG Girls Guns and Greedy politics but without girls...

Rubico prime and Lanka are the go to meta weapons for eidolon hunts. That's why they've both been nerfed repeatedly.

2 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Do you have never seen a tigris prime or an hek during a match? I have seen  a tigris prime once...

Tigris prime is extremely powerful and it is fairly common. Personal anecdote though, "I see this or that" isnt the same as having the usage stats from DE.

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Phantom Clip said:

I see rubico in almost every eidolon hunt. Often 2 or 3 players using it. 

Yup. It's rare that I see someone using anything but rubico prime or Lanka for eidolon hunts. Snipetron is starting to edge it's way into the meta because their riven dispo is respectable but I bet that will change when those rivens get nerfed  too.

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6 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Nah, just remove rivens entirely.

Nuke them from orbit and never look back.

Is DE gonna refund all the plat people spent on rivens if they delete them from the game?

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I'm the only one I've ever seen using the kohm lol. I have the riven for it so.... if I saw the kohm everywhere I looked then I'd agree but... that's just not the case. I just benefits from a riven making it worth using so it's in a super weird niche spot. Soon as it is nerfed it will evaporate and then be back where it is if it were upped again anyway,

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14 hours ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

This should have been done a long time ago. The Kohm has no business running around with a 1.4 riven dispo. Its ridiculous how such a powerful weapon, has avoided dispo nerfs for so long. With the upcoming exilus slots allowing you to slot ammo mutation mods on the Kohm, its only real disadvantage is gone. I would say 0.5 or 0.4 dispo should be fairly balanced considering its strength and popularity. 

 

Edit: If you all think otherwise, try to convince me that the Kohm is anywhere near unpopular and under-performing like the Hind, twin vipers, Tetra, Furis and its variants. Those all have more less the same riven dispo. You're all bull$hiters if you think the Kohm is anywhere near those aforementioned weapons in performance and popularity.

The Kohm is utter trash without a riven. Stop crying and start coping with the fact you don't have a riven for it lol

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6 hours ago, bibmobello said:

i don't fkn understand why a MR  5 weapon should be more powerful than a MR14 weapon only because some "mafioso" riven said so.

Because that's the entire point of rivens, at least conceptually. DE's ideal when it comes to rivens is that every weapon becomes equally effective in their niche given an identical riven. This MR 5 weapon you speak of, the kohm, very much deserves to outperform an MR 14 weapon if it gets its ideal riven, especially a riven that necessitates a specific stat, and have that stat be above a certain threshold.

1 hour ago, BananaSlamJamma said:

Edit: If you all think otherwise, try to convince me that the Kohm is anywhere near unpopular and under-performing like the Hind, twin vipers, Tetra, Furis and its variants. Those all have more less the same riven dispo. You're all bull$hiters if you think the Kohm is anywhere near those aforementioned weapons in performance and popularity.

I would go so far as to say that, yes, without a riven, the kohm is as unpopular and under-performing as those weapons. The vast majority of players aren't going to use a weapon that runs out of ammo while using carrier, and is extremely clunky without increasing fire rate (and increasing its fire rate only makes the ammo issue worse). I must emphasize how much of a potential dealbreaker, or in the context of this post, balancing mechanic, its ammo economy is. The kohm's ammo economy when compared to other weapons is in orders of magnitude. My rivened kohm strains its ammo reserves with carrier + max primed shotgun ammo mutation. While on paper its performance is quite good, I would go so far as to say the kohm has the absolute worst quality of life of any gun in the entire game. The weapons you list are just mediocre statblocks.

Those weapons you speak of with respect to their rivens are a symptom of fundamental shortcomings of the riven system, those being that DE has a soft cap of riven disposition at 1.5, and that rivens work off of the weapons base stats. The weapons are so bad that it would take perfect rivens to get their stats such that they compare to the meta weapons. The kohm is the absolute perfect example of rivens doing their actual job, breathing new life into mediocre weapons. Rivens take an ammo guzzling clunky POS with potential and turning it into something great. All rivens should strive to be like kohm rivens when it comes to bad weapons.

Edited by torint_man
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That's the problem with balancing on usage stats instead of power. Mind, i do enjoy my 100% status kohm immensely, that said it is a but funny to me that probably the highest burst gun in the game can have that kind of disposition and also 100% status on a ramping up full auto high pellet count shotgun. With innate punchthrough. What the #*!%. 

I guess DE is just too afraid to touch them cause perfect kohm rivens are so high in price and can be destroyed even by a 0.05 adjustment. The backlash would be huge. 

Don't say it's healthy tho. 

 

 

Oh, and whoever is writing that the kohm without a 100% status riven build is mediocre has to get his head checked. 

Edited by Autongnosis
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40 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

That's the problem with balancing on usage stats instead of power. Mind, i do enjoy my 100% status kohm immensely, that said it is a but funny to me that probably the highest burst gun in the game can have that kind of disposition and also 100% status on a ramping up full auto high pellet count shotgun. With innate punchthrough. What the #*!%. 

I guess DE is just too afraid to touch them cause perfect kohm rivens are so high in price and can be destroyed even by a 0.05 adjustment. The backlash would be huge. 

Don't say it's healthy tho. 

 

 

Oh, and whoever is writing that the kohm without a 100% status riven build is mediocre has to get his head checked. 

A lot of shotguns underperform without 100% SC compared to those with.

Its a fact.

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il y a 10 minutes, jmthebigman a dit :

A lot of shotguns underperform without 100% SC compared to those with.

Its a fact.

Yeah, it's obvious that rivened kohm performs better than unrivened kohm, even more so if said riven allows you to get 100% sc with just 3 dual stat. 

That said, it's just as moronic to say that without said riven the kohm is mediocre. 

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2 hours ago, jmthebigman said:

A lot of shotguns underperform without 100% SC compared to those with.

Its a fact.

Most  shotguns sucks on high levels(over sorties) with or without 100% status. They are good mainly for armor stripping but you will run out of ammo immediately. Take the boar prime, it sucks because it has low crits and low slash, even in the simulacrum you will run out of ammo even  with a riven +damage ,+ status and even having main impact damage, it sucks against corpus with gas build because it has low crits.

The Tigris prime the same and it has a ridiculous low riven disposition and with its slow rate you will kill one enemy while other people cleaned the whole map (but if it had even only 4 stars it was the most powerful weapon in game) .

Kohm the same, i have never seen anyone using it during long arbitration because it sucks but on "normal levels" it kills everything easily and it used mainly with nekros.

Exergis is just a big useless piece of trash.

The only "Shotgun" deserves a mention it's not even a primary...

Edited by bibmobello

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12 hours ago, taiiat said:

even though Kohm is specifically excluded from Riven Multiplier changes until further notice?

are you seriously saying that your Status Chance Riven is not effective when the Enemy is immune to Status? breaking news.
perhaps a different Riven might be desired then, yno. since it has other Statistical features of note anyways, that pair well with Status.

No matter how powerful some people consider the gun to be, I haven't seen anyone use it in ages. It's not as popular as people think. It's like Dual Ichor back in the day; everyone praised how good they were but nobody realistically used them.

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This argument makes zero sense.  If the weapon is being used by "everyone" then the disposition would be much lower.  

Please stop trolling, you're killing any credibility for future posts.

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If your salt stems from the prices of status Kohm Rivens, nerfing the dispo won't help that. It will likely make Kohm Rivens more expensive, as reaching threshold status will become more and more difficult. 

Nerfing weapon dispos with threshold stats like this is a big #*!% you to everyone who worked hard for them. That's why they didn't change them back then, and probably won't in the future.

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22 hours ago, Xydeth said:

kohm needs 120%+ status chance on a riven or its just MR basically, in comparison to others. no matter what riven u run on it, it wont compete overall without 100% sc before multishot and thats the whole point of its dispo.

Some say it needs 120% status, but their are plenty of videos on YouTube as well as clips others have shared ingame of them running rivens without the 120% status, and just mauling through enemies. 

Mine has Damage, Multishot, Fire Rate, neg Infested, and some friends that do have the 120% status on their kohms have seen mine and pretty much said that mine is on par with their Riven. In some cases even better than theirs when fighting enemies that are immune to status procs like Lephantis, or in missions where 100% status doesn't matter much, like the radiation build for Index. 

The point I'm just trying to make here, is even if Kohm doesn't have 100% status, it would still be very destructive. I really don't think it absolutely has to never be subject to change. 

Edited by (XB1)l Saminator l
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7 hours ago, torint_man said:

Because that's the entire point of rivens, at least conceptually. DE's ideal when it comes to rivens is that every weapon becomes equally effective in their niche given an identical riven. This MR 5 weapon you speak of, the kohm, very much deserves to outperform an MR 14 weapon if it gets its ideal riven, especially a riven that necessitates a specific stat, and have that stat be above a certain threshold.

I would go so far as to say that, yes, without a riven, the kohm is as unpopular and under-performing as those weapons. The vast majority of players aren't going to use a weapon that runs out of ammo while using carrier, and is extremely clunky without increasing fire rate (and increasing its fire rate only makes the ammo issue worse). I must emphasize how much of a potential dealbreaker, or in the context of this post, balancing mechanic, its ammo economy is. The kohm's ammo economy when compared to other weapons is in orders of magnitude. My rivened kohm strains its ammo reserves with carrier + max primed shotgun ammo mutation. While on paper its performance is quite good, I would go so far as to say the kohm has the absolute worst quality of life of any gun in the entire game. The weapons you list are just mediocre statblocks.

Those weapons you speak of with respect to their rivens are a symptom of fundamental shortcomings of the riven system, those being that DE has a soft cap of riven disposition at 1.5, and that rivens work off of the weapons base stats. The weapons are so bad that it would take perfect rivens to get their stats such that they compare to the meta weapons. The kohm is the absolute perfect example of rivens doing their actual job, breathing new life into mediocre weapons. Rivens take an ammo guzzling clunky POS with potential and turning it into something great. All rivens should strive to be like kohm rivens when it comes to bad weapons.

Funny the only downside of the Kohm you're able to argue is its ammo economy which of this week will no longer be an issue as you'll be able to completely rectify that issue by slotting in a primed ammo mutation without losing any dmg whatsoever. 

 

7 hours ago, torint_man said:

I would go so far as to say that, yes, without a riven, the kohm is as unpopular and under-performing as those weapons.

Then you are a liar, simple. Stop trying to BS people, the Hind or Tetra are no where as good as the Kohm. It's shocking the mental gymnastics ppl go thru to protect their precious little rivens

Edited by -CM-AbsoluteZero
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14 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Go back and read the dev notes where they said it was marked for a reduction but didnt get it because of the status chance issue. Usage or power ain't the issue.

Throughout this thread, ppl have said that without the 100% status chance the Kohm is "useless" "mr fodder" "trash"

And so I asked them to compare the Kohm's popularity and performance to weapons with similar riven dispo and yet none of you can give me a straight answer

14 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I dont have to convince you of anything. They said they weren't gonna do it because status rivens would potentially go from being great to trash in an instant, as opposed to only seeing a slight decrease like other rivens. This was several dispo updates ago. They arent going to do it. At least not unless shotgun status chance calculations get re worked and there is no indication they are going to touch that EVER let alone any time soon.

What exactly is your argument again?

What reason is there that the Kohm should deserve rivens with such a high dispo? Why should the kohm not have trash rivens like you said? Is the Kohm struggling anywhere close to the Hind, twin vipers, Tetra, Furis and its variants to warrant needing such a high dispo?

Its clear from these responses you guys are a dishonest bunch with vested interests.  

 

 

14 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

And you, being butthurt and rude to people in the wrong forum wont change that.

And you're so triggered over this because why exactly?

14 hours ago, (XB1)Kuljack said:

Don’t do it. We will have to read more unsupported claims for nerds from people who live in a parents basement delivering pizzas and just want someone else’s life to suffer a little like theirs... oh shoot wrong person quoted.

Clearly I'm the triggered one...

12 hours ago, LordPantaloonsthe3rd said:

What made you so mad that you had to log in and post this thread after not having posted since 2016? Who hurt you? Should we invite an Oberon? If its serious perhaps a Trinity instead? Maybe in the meantime while we find one of those we can maybe get a Frost to cast freeze on your bum cause something or someone clearly burned it.

Clearly my thread has upset you enough that you had to stalk my post history as some sort of argument. lol gj

Edited by -CM-AbsoluteZero

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)l Saminator l:

Some say it needs 120% status, but their are plenty of videos on YouTube as well as clips others have shared ingame of them running rivens without the 120% status, and just mauling through enemies. 

Mine has Damage, Multishot, Fire Rate, neg Infested, and some friends that do have the 120% status on their kohms have seen mine and pretty much said that mine is on par with their Riven. In some cases even better than theirs when fighting enemies that are immune to status procs like Lephantis, or in missions where 100% status doesn't matter much, like the radiation build for Index. 

The point I'm just trying to make here, is even if Kohm doesn't have 100% status, it would still be very destructive. I really don't think it absolutely has to never be subject to change. 

that might be true, but im seeing it in comparison and basing it on my own tests and if i compare non 100% kohm with another shottie that has, or even a dmg beast like corinth then kohm doesnt really shine as much. the big advantage is the increase in pellets, just as twin kohmak, and in that regard these 2 can turn into real status beasts. if they are usable without it is another story but im seeing it in comparison. without 100% sc it only has its dmg/dps and in my opinion thats not really great. its big advantage at that point is its innate punch through, nothing else.

feel free to ignore my opinion though, im just stating what ive tested and how i see that whole topic. that being said tho, since i stopped using kohm and ditched my riven for it personally i dont care a lot either way, but i also dont see why the option for 100% sc should be destroyed. rivens are expensive, sure, but if u dont care about 100% sc then why even argue ? u could legit use any riven without it and these arent too expensive...

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6 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

that might be true, but im seeing it in comparison and basing it on my own tests and if i compare non 100% kohm with another shottie that has, or even a dmg beast like corinth then kohm doesnt really shine as much. the big advantage is the increase in pellets, just as twin kohmak, and in that regard these 2 can turn into real status beasts. if they are usable without it is another story but im seeing it in comparison. without 100% sc it only has its dmg/dps and in my opinion thats not really great. its big advantage at that point is its innate punch through, nothing else.

feel free to ignore my opinion though, im just stating what ive tested and how i see that whole topic. that being said tho, since i stopped using kohm and ditched my riven for it personally i dont care a lot either way, but i also dont see why the option for 100% sc should be destroyed. rivens are expensive, sure, but if u dont care about 100% sc then why even argue ? u could legit use any riven without it and these arent too expensive...

Got a pic of the kohm build you were using during tests? Just out of curiosity, can share mine later at some point when I get online. I think many underestimate kohm when it doesn't have 100% status. It can still tear through armor and outright remove it due to its sheer fire rate compared with the multi-pellets flying out. Since my kohm has both Shotgun Spazz, and fire rate and Multishot on the Riven, it does strip armor pretty fast the way it is. 

Depending on how others build their kohms, we will all have different conclusions to this topic, though I at least will say to the others on this post and elsewhere that Kohm is certainly not underpowered as soon as it no longer has 100% status, and I'm happy to share a clip if I have to. Maybe If some seen through my perspective, they may change their mind, who knows. 

Edited by (XB1)l Saminator l

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Honestly, once DE gets around to increasing those normal status chance mods to at least six times (three for shotguns) the value they are now, those Rivens wouldn't be as needed, unless DE then decided that >100% status chance means that there's an x% chance a pellet can proc multiple statuses (like crit chance).

Although, I have this slightly sneaking suspicion that there would be a bit of pushback against buffing those mods because people want to sell their Rivens high.

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On 2019-10-20 at 9:33 AM, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

This should have been done a long time ago. The Kohm has no business running around with a 1.4 riven dispo. Its ridiculous how such a powerful weapon, has avoided dispo nerfs for so long. With the upcoming exilus slots allowing you to slot ammo mutation mods on the Kohm, its only real disadvantage is gone. I would say 0.5 or 0.4 dispo should be fairly balanced considering its strength and popularity. 

If you all think otherwise, try to convince me that the Kohm is anywhere near unpopular and under-performing like the Hind, twin vipers, Tetra, Furis and its variants. Those all have more less the same riven dispo. You're all really think the Kohm is anywhere near those aforementioned weapons in performance and popularity?

What’re your favorite weapons? Let nerf them and their Rivers because they are too good in missions. The nerfing trend is destroying Warframe. Is that what you and few others want?

Where are all these nerfing requests from? Are you all real Warframe players? Warframe and Tennos and their weapons are not for babies.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb (XB1)l Saminator l:

Got a pic of the kohm build you were using during tests? Just out of curiosity, can share mine later at some point when I get online. I think many underestimate kohm when it doesn't have 100% status. It can still tear through armor and outright remove it due to its sheer fire rate compared with the multi-pellets flying out. Since my kohm has both Shotgun Spazz, and fire rate and Multishot on the Riven, it does strip armor pretty fast the way it is. 

Depending on how others build their kohms, we will all have different conclusions to this topic, though I at least will say to the others on this post and elsewhere that Kohm is certainly not underpowered as soon as it no longer has 100% status, and I'm happy to share a clip if I have to. Maybe If some seen through my perspective, they may change their mind, who knows. 

no i dont because thats looooong ago, even before the flight speed changes. my riven had sc dmg ms but -101,3% flight speed so after the changes/damage falloff update that riven was literally dead...expensive endo.

yes, i remember the exact negative amount...

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Just now, Xydeth said:

no i dont because thats looooong ago, even before the flight speed changes. my riven had sc dmg ms but -101,3% flight speed so after the changes/damage falloff update that riven was literally dead...expensive endo.

yes, i remember the exact negative amount...

Ouch, sorry to heat that. That's like my nice Strun Riven with Damage,ultishot, Toxin, and negative 100% projectile flight speed haha. 

I can see this topic getting locked at some point as their are just too many people being too bitter towards each other. 

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