Kohm rivens needs to be nerfed

[Xolgys]

Gerade eben schrieb (XB1)l Saminator l:

Ouch, sorry to heat that. That's like my nice Strun Riven with Damage,ultishot, Toxin, and negative 100% projectile flight speed haha. 

I can see this topic getting locked at some point as their are just too many people being too bitter towards each other. 

cant say anything negative about my hybrid strun w. with -impact.

agree, ppl bring too many emotions into discussions, happens to the best of us but cooling down is not everybody's forte~

[George_PPS]

22 hours ago, (XB1)Kuljack said:

Why? What’s your reasoning for wanting it nerfed?

How does the Kohms current disposition impact you in anyway? Because rivens for it are too pricey? I rarely see players running a kohm and stealing all the kills from other players, so what really drives you to feel like this needs nerfed other than to spoil other people’s fun?

It’s simply extreme envy and toxic mentality. They want it but can’t afford one. Instead of working earning one or farming enough Kuva to roll one of their own, these extremely toxic players ask DE to nerf whatever they can’t get to “balance” it out. 

[CodeUltimate]

1 minute ago, George_PPS said:

It’s simply extreme envy and toxic mentality. They want it but can’t afford one. Instead of working earning one or farming enough Kuva to roll one of their own, these extremely toxic players ask DE to nerf whatever they can’t get to “balance” it out. 

Yup this guy is on point. Players like the op are ruining this game.

[-CM-AbsoluteZero]

3 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

It’s simply extreme envy and toxic mentality. They want it but can’t afford one. Instead of working earning one or farming enough Kuva to roll one of their own, these extremely toxic players ask DE to nerf whatever they can’t get to “balance” it out. 

Just now, CodeUltimate said:

Yup this guy is on point. Players like the op are ruining this game.

And so this brings me back to:

On 2019-10-20 at 12:33 PM, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

If you all think otherwise, try to convince me that the Kohm is anywhere near unpopular and under-performing like the Hind, twin vipers, Tetra, Furis and its variants. Those all have more less the same riven dispo. You all really think the Kohm is anywhere near those aforementioned weapons in performance and popularity?

Tell me again why the Kohm is deserving of such a powerful riven? Is it under performing like the aforementioned weapons? 

Or is this just simply a case of greed? 

[CodeUltimate]

1 minute ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

And so this brings me back to:

Tell me again why the Kohm is deserving of such a powerful riven? Is it under performing like the aforementioned weapons? 

Or is this just simply a case of greed? 

If you find those other weapons underperforming then ask DE for buffs on those weapons, just because there are useless weapons doesn't mean all weapons must be useless.

[George_PPS]

8 minutes ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

And so this brings me back to:

Tell me again why the Kohm is deserving of such a powerful riven? Is it under performing like the aforementioned weapons? 

Or is this just simply a case of greed? 

So, first of all, what are you favorite weapons and Rivens? Let’s nerf them all? 

Tell everyone again why your powerful weapons don’t deserve nerfs? 

Edited October 21, 2019 by George_PPS

[(XBOX)Kuljack]

Just now, George_PPS said:

So, first of all, what are you favorite weapons and Rivers? Let’s nerf them all? 

Tell everyone again why your powerful weapons don’t deserve nerfs? 

Just don’t nerf my Seer riven. I love my 600% damage.

[George_PPS]

Just now, (XB1)Kuljack said:

Just don’t nerf my Seer riven. I love my 600% damage.

I am for BUFFING any weak weapons and their Rivers. Nerfing is not the answer in the game. Instead of proposing nerfing anything or any Rivers because I don’t have it mentality, we should do the opposite. If anyone likes anything and wants it to be powerful, ask for buffs. 

[CodeUltimate]

1 minute ago, George_PPS said:

I am for BUFFING any weak weapons and their Rivers. Nerfing is not the answer in the game. Instead of proposing nerfing anything or any Rivers because I don’t have it mentality, we should do the opposite. If anyone likes anything and wants it to be powerful, ask for buffs. 

That's exactly what we need in a looter shooter game. Trampling on the effort of your most dedicated players is not the answer.

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

40 minutes ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

Clearly I'm the triggered one...

Clearly my thread has upset you enough that you had to stalk my post history as some sort of argument. lol gj

I'm not mad i dont even like the kohm, I only looked cause it seemed like an odd thing to be fixated on. I wanted to see if you had a habit of posting these kinds of threads as that would explain why you posted this but you dont have a history of it, or at least a recent one hence my post. It was a 50/50 piss-take/serious question.

Still didnt answer my question, trying to bypass it by claiming im triggered is a low effort dodge.

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)Kuljack said:

Just don’t nerf my Seer riven. I love my 600% damage.

ah a fellow tenno of culture as well.

Edited October 21, 2019 by LordPantaloonsthe3rd

[swinginman]

On 2019-10-20 at 11:33 AM, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

 If you all think otherwise, try to convince me that the Kohm is anywhere near unpopular and under-performing like the Hind, twin vipers, Tetra, Furis and its variants. Those all have more less the same riven dispo. You all really think the Kohm is anywhere near those aforementioned weapons in performance and popularity?

None of those weapons are shotguns. Compare the Kohm to others in the same weapon class. The Kohm is rather lackluster in this weapon category when compared to it's counter parts, excluding the phage & convectrix (which both have higher dispos). Sure maybe it isn't PERFECTLY balanced as far as shotgun popularity goes. But the reasoning it hasn't changed has been stated many times in this thread, as well as by DE. Everyone is so perplexed as to why you are demanding this weapon's dispo gets nerfed because it really isn't hurting you. Someone with a strong Kohm Riven isn't going to slaughter everything on the map before you even make line of sight. So why are you so passionate about this topic? Is the balance of Warframe Rivens really what you want to get on a soapbox about? I feel like there are many other things in Warframe that come before this in the argument of what is overpowered.

[jmthebigman]

5 hours ago, bibmobello said:

Most  shotguns sucks on high levels(over sorties) with or without 100% status. They are good mainly for armor stripping but you will run out of ammo immediately. Take the boar prime, it sucks because it has low crits and low slash, even in the simulacrum you will run out of ammo even  with a riven +damage ,+ status and even having main impact damage, it sucks against corpus with gas build because it has low crits.

The Tigris prime the same and it has a ridiculous low riven disposition and with its slow rate you will kill one enemy while other people cleaned the whole map (but if it had even only 4 stars it was the most powerful weapon in game) .

Kohm the same, i have never seen anyone using it during long arbitration because it sucks but on "normal levels" it kills everything easily and it used mainly with nekros.

Exergis is just a big useless piece of trash.

The only "Shotgun" deserves a mention it's not even a primary...

Boar and its Prime may be contender for worst of the physical shotguns shotgun (excluding beam ones)
The reason Tigris has 1 dispo is cause its popular and strong, tnx for showing you knowledge about the system -.-'

 

8 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

Yeah, it's obvious that rivened kohm performs better than unrivened kohm, even more so if said riven allows you to get 100% sc with just 3 dual stat. 

That said, it's just as moronic to say that without said riven the kohm is mediocre. 

It honestly drops a lot in the shotgun tierlist without 100sc compared to others so...
Not saying its bad.

[bibmobello]

 

Quote

Boar and its Prime may be contender for worst of the physical shotguns shotgun (excluding beam ones)
The reason Tigris has 1 dispo is cause its popular and strong, tnx for showing you knowledge about the system -.-'

I can give you lessons and after schools when you want.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 44 minutes, jmthebigman a dit :

It honestly drops a lot in the shotgun tierlist without 100sc compared to others so...

Not saying its bad.

Well considering it gets nearly 110k burst with a decent sustain rate with also a slot taken by primed ammo mutation, i'd say it pretty much keeps its place very solidly. It's just good for different things in that case. 

[Cloudyvisage]

As far as I know the only time the Kohm experienced a spike in usage was when Umbra+Kohm was a thing, other than that the Kohm has at best been a cult classic like the Tiberon was before it was primed, a loyal following but the gun itself was rarely seen.

I liken the Kohm to most explosive weapons, very high theoretical damage at the cost of longevity, or perhaps the Grakata series, high damage if you mod right but low longevity. As for the MR5 argument we have the dread, one of the most powerful bows in the game at MR5 and it has a 1.2 disposition, not too far. The Nukor is one MR less and can be built in weird ways and played with certain frames to do a ridiculous amount of damage and has very high disposition, 1.45. Snipetron Vandal is MR5 and has 1.25 and is quite strong.

The point is, the Kohm is a solid low MR weapon with a drawback holding it back, however, if you invest a large amount of Forma, an exilus slot and have a status Riven, it can become one of the best weapons in the game, sounds like the Nukor I mentioned earlier. The Kohm is strong for it's MR but for the people at that MR? It's just a clunky but good assault rifle that doesn't use the same mods they've probably been ranking up. (I know it's not a rifle, but it might as well be for new players)

With a Riven the Kohm can go from being a very strong weapon you've heavily invested in to being in the top 10 weapons. Without a Riven it would be just an above average performing weapon.

The Twin Vipers, Viper, Tetri, Hind and Furis are all weapons that don't sit at the precipice of something, the vipers(Variants) don't have enough status or crit to do anything unique, nor do the Hind, Furis or Tetri, The Kohm, being a shotgun, sits at the precipice of status, therefore it can sit at MR5 by default because weapons aren't balanced around Rivens, it cannot get over this precipice without a Riven and is therefore stuck in (Comparative) mediocrity for the usual player.

Given the infrequency of Kohm users it makes sense that it sits at a high disposition, I agree that it doesn't necessarily need to sit at 1.4 but it certainly does not need to go below 1.1 at the worst, it simply isn't used enough for that.

Edit: I would also like to note that melee weapons blow this comparison out of the water with such standouts as Atterax which doesn't even care about Rivens at MR2, the Orthos Prime also at 2, the Prisma Dual Cleavers at 3, the Redeemer at 4 and Orvius at 5.

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Cloudyvisage
Melee

[torint_man]

2 hours ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

Funny the only downside of the Kohm you're able to argue is its ammo economy which of this week will no longer be an issue as you'll be able to completely rectify that issue by slotting in a primed ammo mutation without losing any dmg whatsoever.

Again, it also has an extremely clunky wind up time (which means time to kill is significantly higher than ideal against weak enemies), and even with carrier + maxed prime shotgun ammo mutation ammo is still problematic, at least in the context of beyond level 100 where weapon power actually matters. It doesn't matter if something slaughters sortie 3 enemies left and right, because everything can with proper investment.

In your original post, you say that the kohm deserves the lowest possible disposition. That would imply that, without rivens, the kohm is just as good if not better than the Hek, arca plasmor, and the Tigris prime. If that is what you actually are trying to claim, then you are taking more piss than the kohm takes ammo.

2 hours ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

Then you are a liar, simple. Stop trying to BS people, the Hind or Tetra are no where as good as the Kohm. It's shocking the mental gymnastics ppl go thru to protect their precious little rivens

Those weapons are irrelevant. It's not the kohm's fault that the riven system has fundamental shortcomings.

The kohm is the riven system at its absolute best. Kohm rivens are the lofty, idealistic goal of rivens realized.

[(PSN)Brent1016]

Only reason it’s got a high dispo is because hardly anyone uses it. 

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

No matter how powerful some people consider the gun to be, I haven't seen anyone use it in ages. It's not as popular as people think. It's like Dual Ichor back in the day; everyone praised how good they were but nobody realistically used them.

well ofcourse. popular and good don't necessarily overlap.

there's lots of good items in the game but the only things you see the 99% using are whatever Youtube/Twitch has brain leakaged them into thinking is 'the best'. which will simply be whatever they can just barely hit par with while getting as close to W+M1 as possible.

 

doesn't change that Kohm has a lot of power available in both Status Chance and Raw Damage. not at once since Rivens can't have 4 Stats ofcourse, but.
(hint, Kohm has quite exceptional Crit Stats considering the high Pellet count and that the Crit Stats got hilariously buffed in the last passover)

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Or they could not completely bend the gun over and make it useless by nerfing its dispo.  If kohm gets a disposition nerf and can't get 120% status chance on it, no one uses it.  So then the disposition goes up because no one uses it.  Do we want to endlessly cycle between having the kohm be useable or just another MR fodder weapon?  I don't think so.  If we want to fix it's disposition problem there is only one good way to do it.  Make kohm wraith with 30% SC at base.  Then you can nerf the riven into the ground for all I care because it can still achieve 100% SC before multishot even with a .5 disposition.  

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 hours ago, -CM-AbsoluteZero said:

Stuff

Show me where on the doll Kohm rivens touched you. Cry some more.

[-ToT-CrackCook]

i havnt seen anyone using a kohm in a public mission.... uh.. ever, only in hydron for leveling for MR

[(XBOX)l Saminator l]

4 minutes ago, -ToT-CrackCook said:

i havnt seen anyone using a kohm in a public mission.... uh.. ever, only in hydron for leveling for MR

Quite a few veteran players use it, but since veterans are the minority, we probably don't run into them that much. Plus some probably avoid public missions on top of that, thus we don't see many of them using good kohms publicly. 

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

The kohm is prized by those who know how powerful the weapon is, but a lot of people don't know it exists or even why it's incredible.  It's an automatic tigris prime when you get a 120% status chance riven for it, and look at where the tigris prime sits.  Slash based status weapons are insane because slash procs are insane.  If you don't have a riven for the weapon though with 120% SC it's just a machine gun shotgun with decent stats but nothing spectacular like other meta weapons like rubico prime.  

[Knight_Ex]

I feel like this was a salty thread made from the tears of someone who ran into a Kohm user and got schooled by them......in a PVE game...wow go figure.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Knight_Ex