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KIREEK

Don't post personal screenshots (ones only you can take)

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I appologize in advance if my english isn't top notch, but there is no other way i can transmit this info, so if you find mistakes on my spelling, try to understand, Portuguese is my main language. TLDR at the bottom.

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This is simply an advice. because sometimes mistakes can cost the account.
Let's start with some background, when a player does some sort of an infraction (afk for example), i don't act passively, i use what the game provides (report and/or support) and as long it's used correctly i may use it again.
It became a habbit, i see a "no no", i send a ticket and i resume play.
For example, if i see someone in trade chat selling PS4 coupons, i might send a message to a moderator.

So far so good.

Since trade chat has 2 min cooldown and since sometimes i need to rest from a mission, i try and go more on the offensive and that leads me to the black market forums, in short you can get banned in many ways just by posting there even and i take my time (while trading) to find out the users selling accounts and/or platinum, you guys are probably aware that DE removes platinum if it doesn't obey the guidelines they imposed, even fairly purchased platinum may be removed if sold, potentially banning users that need to pay in order to keep the cosmetic they got with said platinum.

I have been doing this for a long time so i try to share my info with those that may be confused about it, sometimes players don't know and buy platinum from websites that aren't warframe.com or steam. Some players do know, but sometimes they don't and questions like those do pop on ocasion.

A trend that i see pop up on ocasion over the years are the account sellers that don't have the account, tipical scamers. Now they can't sell because everyone is super suspicious about new "members" and so without any reputation no one takes them seriously, what they do is get reputation by selling small things (arcanes, mods) and after that initial stage, they go all in with somekind of High MR, founder, beta player, god like account ( lost count how many time i've seen this), they sell using somekind of non refundable or non trackable way (like bitcoin), they don't own the account, but they have the screenshots from inside the account, images that can only be taken by the owner, like inventory, profile (which is different), arsenal,....

Odds are someone will recognize the images by saying "that account was banned", "i remember selling that account", "a scammer once sold that", "i've seen those images 4 times already across many forums" Why does this happen?

Sometimes they simply google the images, it gives credibility to the post (combined with the rep), they know a dispute will happen, all they care is to keep the money, but they need to convince other members before that happens.
That's where you come in (yes, you reading this), don't post or share ingame screenshots, because if a name is found (happens all the time, regardless of strategies used), a ticket is submited and support can see that only the owner can take the screen. You can guess what happens next.

This has been going on for a long time so why am i posting this now, why this advice now in reddit?
Well, to try and keep things short, i sometimes lurk certain discords because they have an odd probability of containing players who engage in the black market (for example when several players reported in a single week are from a specific clan), the policy they do not follow is that they don't allow players to do those things in the clan or discord, they claim they will ban if that happens, i can say that this is NOT the case. The idea is that surely it doesn't happen, but if you say otherwise then it's "excuses galore", hipocrisy asside these clans do not want to be viewed as clans that allow it, but they surely do not disallow it either. Don't ask me the names of the clans, but i can say they are among the largest clans in the game, so large not even 1 clan can hold all the members.
Among the members is a black market dealer(not going to post the essay here, that's for support), this isn't particularly relevant other than to back up what i said, this member has a clan of his own and when i checked it i saw something i don't often see much.

In order to rank up in the clan, you need to post certain screenshot proof, based on this topic, what do you think players posted?
While i have never seen any of the images or the players in the black market (asside from the warlord and a few others), that doesn't mean those images can't be used, anyone can go in and collect a few images to give credibility to black market deals.

My clan for example requires screenshot proof of certain weekly activities, but i ask for end of mission screens or ingame gameplay ones, it's never inventory, profile and arsenal stuff, because those are unique.

I'm not accusing a clan of doing anything, what i'm trying to say is that a screenshot you shouldn't post can be squeezed out of you, for example, to rank up.

Don't do that, i and others don't bother checking if the seller named "ZED_1234" is the owner/player, we simply find a username and send a ticket, your images can be used against you, it's not my intention to send tickets of players who got tricked or mislead. While you should trust your clan leader, you should use this as an advice, because some leaders are accepted in other discords and clans and they may even be black market dealers, who supply, buy and sell accounts, rivens and platinum.

I understand that this may be overlooked from a players point of view, i'm just sharing a find, i never saw a discord/clan request such pictures, so take care and stay safe tenno.
Remember, if you have a problem with the game, contact support, they take time yes, but they can help out and they also have a few tips and tricks faq with trading and 2FA that you can read, they can't solve everything, but they do try.

They can't erase the problems with the black market and fraudulent platinum, but aslong you don't act like a warlord or moderator who actively allows black market players into your own clan/group, you should be fine.

 

TLDR; posting images of your arsenal, profile, inventory in public means anyone can take them and post said images to give credibility in the black market to sort of say "i own this account as you can see by these images", these images can be sacked out of you as some sort of requirement or requested by a warlord (sometimes the warlord will be a black market dealer). If the account is reported or found by support staff, your account will be gone forever.

Edited by KIREEK
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I'd hope that support isnt dumb enough to just ban a person if someone like you reports a screenshot of someone claiming to sell a specific account.

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First off, thanks for the heads-up. Regardless of actual effectiveness, trying to support your fellow players is something to be commended.

Still, I have a question.

Support can see that only the owner took the screen, but isn't there a variety of other things they can see, such as active playtime? If this was done on an inactive account, but support's human - they can most likely surmise that if someone's still actively playing on an account, from the same ISP and Email, surely that'd warrant more investigation.

(not to mention your average player is probably not going to have an account so valuable that somebody would want to pretend to sell it)

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45 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

My clan for example requires screenshot proof of certain weekly activities, but i ask for end of mission screens or ingame gameplay ones, it's never inventory, profile and arsenal stuff, because those are unique.

that sounds FAR too shady for me to even give the time of day.

Proof of certain activities ..... WOW ...... are there actually clans out there that are THIS serious. jeebus ! 

its a game. not a job  xD 

 

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29 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

I'd hope that support isnt dumb enough to just ban a person if someone like you reports a screenshot of someone claiming to sell a specific account.

If a name is found and proof is given, yes, they remove the account.

 

28 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

First off, thanks for the heads-up. Regardless of actual effectiveness, trying to support your fellow players is something to be commended.

Still, I have a question.

Support can see that only the owner took the screen, but isn't there a variety of other things they can see, such as active playtime? If this was done on an inactive account, but support's human - they can most likely surmise that if someone's still actively playing on an account, from the same ISP and Email, surely that'd warrant more investigation.

(not to mention your average player is probably not going to have an account so valuable that somebody would want to pretend to sell it)

They do check a variety of things, but if a claim is made (selling account) and the player is identified, it doesn't matter if the account is active or not, it's assumed that the owner is selling an old account they didn't use, this hapopens all the time.

The problem is that sometimes it's not the owner, but the screenshots are there. Who took them? the owner. That's a swift ban.

That's why it's an advice, not to dump an entire catalog of screens are unique to you. 1 or 2 is fine, no one takes these users seriously with such litle proof. That's why they seek more screens, if you're going to scam black market dealers, you have to be convincing enough to last a week.

This is reocurring, has happened for years, it all seems like the tipical black market delaer UNTIL someone comments saying that they recognize the images.

7 minutes ago, SilverRook said:

that sounds FAR too shady for me to even give the time of day.

Proof of certain activities ..... WOW ...... are there actually clans out there that are THIS serious. jeebus ! 

its a game. not a job  xD 

 

Each clan manages activity in their own way, i don't own an active clan for years for no reason

 

 

 

Edited by KIREEK
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1 minute ago, SilverRook said:

if thats the requirements for joining - i'd walk right on by lol 

Well, i currently have 9 players that have activity to support this, 1 mission per week. Obviously for some that is indeed to much and so they often seek other clans

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb KIREEK:

If a name is found and proof is given, yes, they remove the account.

but as you clearly show that screenshot alone isnt sufficient proof. Only someone accessing the account from somewhere else is, Remember that DE has more ways to check if an account is being sold than you have so they can clearly see if the account gets accessed from another person.

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...Wait, how exactly can a screenshot make you lose your account? Like, I get it if you post a screenshot with your email and password on display, but other than that, I'm just confused by these claims.

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1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

...Wait, how exactly can a screenshot make you lose your account? Like, I get it if you post a screenshot with your email and password on display, but other than that, I'm just confused by these claims.

the gist of it is that someone can take your screenshots and "claim to be selling your account as their own" then when that gets reported DE ban you. At least that's what I've taken from all of this.

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Just now, EDM774 said:

the gist of it is that someone can take your screenshots and "claim to be selling your account as their own" then when that gets reported DE ban you. At least that's what I've taken from all of this.

What sort of nuclear policies would have to be in place in order for someone to be banned just based on that, I wonder. I mean, sure, maybe that will make them check the account, but they can and probably should check IP history and location, as well as e-mail and password changes. Banning people just based on a screenshot sounds like a serious overreaction.

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37 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

but as you clearly show that screenshot alone isnt sufficient proof. Only someone accessing the account from somewhere else is, Remember that DE has more ways to check if an account is being sold than you have so they can clearly see if the account gets accessed from another person.

I'm pretty sure accounts that only have the owners login do get banned, some sellers even attempt to sell the account AFTER it's banned, to try and atleast fool someone into buying it

If it has screenshos only the owner can view, it's the owner selling them.

That is why i give the advice not to dump screenshots like no other, even if requested by a warlord who needs to rank you up by knowing your playtime, the starchart nodes you cleared and certain items in your inventory

31 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

What sort of nuclear policies would have to be in place in order for someone to be banned just based on that, I wonder. I mean, sure, maybe that will make them check the account, but they can and probably should check IP history and location, as well as e-mail and password changes. Banning people just based on a screenshot sounds like a serious overreaction.

It's not an overreaction, hundreds of tickets have been made and some of them are very simple, they contain information of who the account belongs to and that info is sometimes a simple screenshot with the name visible.

The probability of it being the owner i very high, the advice i'm refering to is for that low chance that a scammer is trying to sell something you own, often some kind of founders high MR account, because remember, they can only scam once, so they need something worthwhile with plenty of proof.

I'll give you an example, this was the actual seller and this image is not edited by me, this is how a seller presented his account (i will obviously not state how it was found, you will also not find it since it's gone forever)

https://i.imgur.com/8PLkjsJ.jpg

You may not know who this player is, but i do and this picture was used as proof

Remember this isn't as simple as posting "this topic contains a seller", you need to show support who this player is and show proof, otherwise you cannot use support, you can't just go and report players using the system, you need to be responsible while doing so.

If someone makes a topic and used this screenshot, the owner would be banned, the buyers would be scammed and the seller would keep the non refundable purchase and move on with a banned forum account on the black market, that's the point, to sell without consequences

Edited by KIREEK
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3 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

Two factor authorization is there for a reason.

That's a good sugestion.

But when someone sells an account, 2FA isn't going to clear your name, support only needs proof and your intention to sell the account such as "i would like to sell my account"

When both are presented together, the ban is permanent. You can claim, "i never sold it", but if support has screens only you can take, your argument falls flat.

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6 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

That's a good sugestion.

But when someone sells an account, 2FA isn't going to clear your name, support only needs proof and your intention to sell the account such as "i would like to sell my account"

When both are presented together, the ban is permanent. You can claim, "i never sold it", but if support has screens only you can take, your argument falls flat.

Uhh, don't think you can sell accounts, it's against TOS, and probably talking about it too. So there is no way that is going to happen.

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At worst someone claiming to own your account and that they are trying to sell it should garner is DE flagging your account in the event that there are successful logins that also show a significant shift geographical IP. At which point more scrutiny and possibly an account ban should be forthcoming.

If they are getting trigger happy and banning people before there is any suspicious network traffic to back those suspicions up then there is something seriously wrong with their methodology. Because you really need to be able to show something to corroborate the suspicion or they are essentially "banning on a promise" that they can't even confirm came from the source or was ever even a thing in the first place. 

That said pretty much everyone is gonna claim "It wasn't me" if they get caught sooooo....

Edited by Oreades

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8 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

Uhh, don't think you can sell accounts, it's against TOS, and probably talking about it too. So there is no way that is going to happen.

I have been reporting for years

What do you think happens in other forums that advertise platinum and/or accounts? This isn't just flowers and sunshine you know? I have hundreds of tickets where i prove someone is selling the account, do you know how many pages of tickets that requires?

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15 minutes ago, Zebiko said:

Uhh, don't think you can sell accounts, it's against TOS, and probably talking about it too. So there is no way that is going to happen.

You do know that third party avenues exist, right lol....

That's like saying "uh, you cant sell illegal firearms, its against the law and probably talking about it too, so there's no ways that is going to happen"

 

 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

You do know that third party avenues exist, right lol....

That's like saying "uh, you cant sell illegal firearms, its against the law and probably talking about it too, so there's no ways that is going to happen"

 

 

More like DE isn't going to listen to the guy saying 'I bought this account, it's mine now'

That's why this would never happen.

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1 minute ago, Zebiko said:

More like DE isn't going to listen to the guy saying 'I bought this account, it's mine now'

That's why this would never happen.

Oh gotcha sorry lol

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2 hours ago, Zebiko said:

More like DE isn't going to listen to the guy saying 'I bought this account, it's mine now'

That's why this would never happen.

The point of this is that this is an advice based on many situations that have happened, sometimes other ppl recognize the images being posted, it's merely to inform that some players may trick you into providing unique screens.

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Just screenshots?

What about screencaptures from youtube or livestreams? Maybe i should delete all my youtube streams of Warframe so no one tries to commit fraud.

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2 minutes ago, CarrotSalad said:

Just screenshots?

What about screencaptures from youtube or livestreams? Maybe i should delete all my youtube streams of Warframe so no one tries to commit fraud.

the idea is to convince someone into buying something you don't own, do you honestly believe a tipical scammer will post stuff taken from a youtube video or with a stream face of somekind, that would be a very short lasting topic.

They try to get something non recognizable, rare (can't appear to often in google images) and must be diversed (so a small batch of pics isn't a good idea)

If you have a warlord requesting several pictures and if you post them for anyone to see, someone may use those pictures.

I know because incidents like these pop up ocasion, they are rare just like players selling the accounts, but do happen. My advice comes mainly after seeing a clan somehow hoarding these pictures, because you often don't see these things side to side, an arsenal picture isn't going to harm you, but if you have a relatively seeked for account and post profile, inventory and arsenal pictures, they may be used.

Players in those forums aren't all dumb, if you post something for all to see, some will grab as many details as possible to try and see if you're trustworthy, a screencap from a video would instantly open a dispute, there is no point in scamming if you're banned before that happens.

The general player is fine, but these situations do happen. This info is here as a recomendation, players are free to be careless. But me, support and maybe other players do not care if a picture was grabbed from google or not, if it's there, it's proof.

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I've seen you say this before, and I... simply don't buy it to be honest.

Anyone can view someone else's profile. I just viewed yours, I saw all the weapons you have and haven't mastered, your hours played, your relationship with the various syndicates... And so what? This is open information.

Inventory and Arsenal, sure, private information, but easily forged. Change my frame and Operator to match yours, post arsenal pictures showing said frame and woohoo, it looks like I'm you.

I can't for one second see DE banning someones account because a picture showing the number of Cryotic they have surfaced on a dodgy website, and I'd really need to see proof to believe it. I also don't believe that this is really an issue, since not posting pictures doesn't exactly stop anyone from pretending your account is theirs.

5 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

but if you have a relatively seeked for account and post profile, inventory and arsenal pictures, they may be used.

Honestly just sounds like fearmongering. 

I get that this is your helpful advice, and I genuinely don't see the reason. No, a picture of my profile is not proof of owning my account. No, a picture showing... Wukong in an Arsenal is not proof of it being my specific account, just Wukong in an Arsenal. No, a picture of an inventory is not proof of anything more than an inventories existence. If someone ties all those things together and tries to sell an account, me not posting pictures changes nothing, they can still do it.

And if DE ban accounts for that, then there's nothing I can do about that, but it is a completely screwed up thing to do.

Edited by DeMonkey
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13 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Anyone can view someone else's profile. I just viewed yours, I saw all the weapons you have and haven't mastered, your hours played, your relationship with the various syndicates... And so what? This is open information.

Mate, it's simple

Have you ever reported another player? This ordeal only makes sense when you understand the differences, there is one in what you just said, tell me for example, how many nodes on the start chart have i cleared?

Do you see the problem, do you know what is a screenshot from the owners point of view.

Can you take a screen of my inventory, like resources?

 

Quote

Inventory and Arsenal, sure, private information, but easily forged. Change my frame and Operator to match yours, post arsenal pictures showing said frame and woohoo, it looks like I'm you.

I can't for one second see DE banning someones account because a picture showing the number of Cryotic they have surfaced on a dodgy website, and I'd really need to see proof to believe it. I also don't believe that this is really an issue, since not posting pictures doesn't exactly stop anyone from pretending your account is theirs.

You never engaged in this as much as i have, so i understand where you are comming from

The point of images is credibility and proof at the same time, the image used to convince others you own it is the same image used by support to ban the account, assuming a name is found, like the picture i posted above

If you look at the image, you will be confused, how can that lead anywhere, how was a name found? That sadly i cannot say to you, only thing i can say is that support needs proof on such acusations and i can't send hundreds of tickets without doing things right, as much as it costs to you, you'll have to trust me when i say "i know what i'm doing"

An arsenal picture doesn't really help anything, not even i can find out who that belongs to, but the more pictures exist, the higher the probability it will be found and used.

If a scammer uses a single arsenal picture, at the 1st question made by another user like "show me you other warframes" could completely expose you because there are none.

I'm trying to be helpfull so that when a warlord asks for certain things, you don't dump your entire arsenal content as proof to rank up, especially when certain warlords are related to black market deals.

Edited by KIREEK
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