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MetalGrayFox

Argon Crystal decay - time to go

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Hi DE / Tenno

So for as long as I have played there has been a decay mechanic on argon crystals. This is the only resource of this nature that I know of, and to this day I still do not understand why the mechanic exists. 

To me, there is no real benefit in having a single decaying resource as all the others can be hoarded. It seems an outlier, and I think it should just be a resource/material which can be collected and hoarded as all the others. I do not know why it was introduced with a different mechanic, it just feels out of place to me and I would like to see it made into a normal hoard-able resource in future.

Thanks for your time !

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It gets you off your butt and back to farming a bit to get things you need for building. I think its purpose is pretty clear.

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Not only should it stay, it should be apllied to other resources as well. And in different ways too, for variety and to better combat resource stockpiling.

Veteran stockpiling is a true plague of this game, and the reason why there's so many high resource requirements such as Hema. Not only that, but it's why so many new resources arise with pretty much every big update. It's also the reason many new players may turn away when they see these huge numbers made only to mildly annoy (if even that) a veteran with a huge stockplile of resources.

This whole resource management shenanigan consists only of beating around the bush applying bandaid after bandaid while ignoring the obvious and glaring issue. I'd just rework it so that we'd have to farm small resource quantities whenever a new item was released.

Edited by (PS4)Hikuro-93
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Agree with the OP, it's kind of out dated nowadays.   We used to have similar issue with kubrow eggs being a single item (unless you got them in an alert) at a time but that got changed so why not argon.

It's sole purpose is basically to make players go to the void and needs to go so DE can actually give players a REAL reason to go back to the void maps. 

As to above about the veterans and the stockpiles... the reason we have stockpiles is that there is nothing to spend the resources on once we've built everything and because DE keeps adding new resources rather than making us use them when they release 'new content'..... The few times DE have done a higher requirement players moan about it even when the hema isn't that high if you have a full and active clan that works together (harsh for solo/duo clans but that's their choice). 

Making resources decay is going to do nothing but annoy those of us with said stockpiles.

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Just now, SpicyDinosaur said:

It gets you off your butt and back to farming a bit to get things you need for building. I think its purpose is pretty clear.

I get that, but what's the point? It's only for one resource in the game, since no others have this mechanic it just seems silly and out of place. 

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Not only should it stay, it should be apllied to other resources as well.

Perhaps so, but I am talking about an existing single outlier in the game right now, not really about the issue of stockpiling. 

 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

there's so many high resource requirements such as Hema

Name me another, I do not feel this is a valid case as again this is an outlier. Very few clans/players had mutagen samples stockpiled for this. 

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

I'd just rework it so that we'd have to farm small resource quantities whenever a new item was released.

I think adding new resources into the game is essentially the same thing as this though, since it levels the field for all, no? My existing pile of nano-spores won't help me with a new resource such as hexanon this year. 

 

I get your point, have less resources which decay over time so you need to farm every time a new item comes out. For me this does not fit the loot and hoard aspect of the game so I would actually find this a polarising change. 

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15 minutes ago, MetalGrayFox said:

I do not know why it was introduced with a different mechanic,

It was introduced for one reason:
To give us a resource that we can't stockpile so that there is always a need to run void missions to farm up a few more of them whenever a new piece of gear requiring the resource is released.
Its a way to combat resource stockpiling so that people can't just insta build/research whatever is released within hours of it coming out and then complain "But there's nothing to do!"

Its a direct answer to the complaints that were on the forums and reddit that people were just instantly building whatever was being released.  People wanted reasons to play more missions, which lets face it in a  game like warframe is to get more resources.

3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

the reason we have stockpiles is that there is nothing to spend the resources on once we've built everything and because DE keeps adding new resources rather than making us use them when they release 'new content'.

Please tell me:
What could DE possibly charge us that would actually make vets have to farm anything instead of insta-building anything they release?

Fact is that they could release an item with 10X the sibears cryotic cost and 10X the hema mutagen sample cost and I could build it 3 to 4 times over.
Meanwhile players that aren't in my situation would be faced with months of grinding to get all of the materials.

That's a problem.  And a large one.
DE has to either give us new resources, or some way to avoid resource stockpiling  or they will never avoid the complaints (and yes there have been tons of complaints on this forum) that there isn't any reason to play missions because they can just build whatever DE releases within hours of it being released.

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I like this mechanic, it just means you need to farm for it when you need it. Beats having to farm thousands of a particular resource which takes way longer then a quick capture mission in the void and look around for some argon.  Would rather have them slowing decay than have to farm thousands of them to build the required items. 

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8 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

DE has to either give us new resources, or some way to avoid resource stockpiling  or they will never avoid the complaints (and yes there have been tons of complaints on this forum) that there isn't any reason to play missions because they can just build whatever DE releases within hours of it being released.

Farming resources shouldn't be the main reason to play a mission in the first place... but maybe that's just me....

As to veterans being able to build things instantly... well they have been here longer which in turn means they're going to have more resources and as has been shown many times they're not the target market for DE these days, that's the newbies who want instant gratification via plat.  It's not like veterans haven't farmed the resources they have, they've just done it in advance, rather than after a new thing is released....it's like pre-ordering. 

The only complaints I can say I've seen on this forum regarding resources are hema/mutagen samples, needing new resources instead of using existing ones and argon crystals expiring..... no idea what other sort of complaints you've seen because I haven't seen them...

Edited by LSG501

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31 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Veteran stockpiling is a true plague of this game, and the reason why there's so many high resource requirements such as Hema.

22 minutes ago, MetalGrayFox said:

Name me another, I do not feel this is a valid case as again this is an outlier. Very few clans/players had mutagen samples stockpiled for this. 

I didn't have mutagen samples and had to collect all 5000 on my own... Now imagine if THOSE had the same lifetime as argon crystals.

Resource stockpiling isn't the problem per se, the problem is the "new" complaining about the "old" due to their lazyness to grind (as if its difficult to grind in this game). The "new" only complain because they want the new toys, for last century, but the only way to get it with their lack of resources (because "partners" never mention this core mechanic of the game, which new players always check out for vids) is with platinum... And these complaints usually happen in the game chat.

The "new" need to be taught right at the start that they need resources, and that they need to use their time in a mission doing something else other than the *start-objective-extraction* routine. It was expected that the blueprint requirements were self-explanatory, but apparently many have their mindset below human.

 

Applying the same system to other resources is stupid. Argon Crystals have a lifetime explicitly because they can only remain "stable" in the Void. As soon as you collect them, you're taking them out of the Void, which causes them to decay... Which, by using non-lore words...

32 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

It gets you off your butt and back to farming a bit to get things you need for building. I think its purpose is pretty clear.

... So, no. Argon Crystals decay should stay, and not be spread to other resources like Gas proc.

Edited by Uhkretor
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2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

It was introduced for one reason:

Thanks for the response and explanation. It still does not make me feel this is a needed mechanic. To add 5-10mins into my time needed to get a material is not going to change much (I am speaking from vet perspective). I see 5-10mins in a mission as practically instant for building something, it will usually take me longer to get the parts to build the item (RNG forever bless me) than to get the crystal(s). Get the principle, just poorly executed and feels out of place in the current state of the game (adding new materials seems to be a more effective way to make me spend more time doing new content). 

Sorry to hear people complained about insta-building, that seems odd considering this is a PvE game. There is no disadvantage to a player who cannot insta-build.

Also, I have spent more time in the game and that is why I have resources. I actually think it would be unfair to us to level the playing field for newer players who do not have a stockpile of resources. it is not as though the materials appeared in my inventory over time, I still played the game to get them. I just got to the game first. 

 

9 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

That's a problem.  And a large one.

Does not seem so large a problem to me to be honest, it is not as though players are bypassing the game when they have stockpiles. They just played the game previously and now have earned the ability to log on when new content is released and be able to progress through it faster. The game is all about collecting things, so I actually do not agree with the argument of disappearing resources being applied to all. New resources are fine, that's the evolution of the game. Also forces the introduction of new destinations / maps which for players is good, more content.  

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4 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Argon Crystals have a lifetime explicitly because they can only remain "stable" in the Void. As soon as you collect them, you're taking them out of the Void, which causes them to decay.

Ahhhh this I did not know. So it is in the game's lore. We would need a mini-Void in our orbiters or continue shooting our amps at the crystals (lol jk) to keep them from decaying. It seems my request will need a retcon on lore to fix. RIP - thanks for the explanation 

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19 minutes ago, MetalGrayFox said:

So it is in the game's lore. We would need a mini-Void in our orbiters or continue shooting our amps at the crystals (lol jk) to keep them from decaying. It seems my request will need a retcon on lore to fix.

That's... actually, that's not a bad idea. A void powered storage of limited capacity, to slow down the Crystal's decay.

 

inb4 new console on the Orbiter (yes, another one).

Edited by Uhkretor

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36 minutes ago, Jackdarsan said:

I like this mechanic, it just means you need to farm for it when you need it. Beats having to farm thousands of a particular resource which takes way longer then a quick capture mission in the void and look around for some argon.  Would rather have them slowing decay than have to farm thousands of them to build the required items. 

I missed this response, I think you will find people who will agree with you, and others who will not. It is a more polarising topic than I thought (resource hoarding). I was merely looking for a change in how argon is dealt with considering it is an outlier. It seems people just want more argon-esque resources lol.

Resources are not hard to obtain mind, they just take time. Also under the current system you only farm resources when you need them, the difference is you just keep the extra.  Bear in mind whatever takes thousands of a resource will likely still take thousands for the newer things released (numbers are high on common resources usually). Considering argon is a rare drop, I very much doubt it would ever be in the thousands for a single item. 

 

16 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

That's... actually, that's not a bad idea. A void powered storage of limited capacity, to slow down the Crystal's decay.

Haha thanks, however the lore connection makes me think even this is unlikely to happen as introduction of a mini void-fridge with crystals stored inside does not seem like it can easily find a place in the game. Who knows though!

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Not only should it stay, it should be apllied to other resources as well. And in different ways too, for variety and to better combat resource stockpiling.

Veteran stockpiling is a true plague of this game, and the reason why there's so many high resource requirements such as Hema. Not only that, but it's why so many new resources arise with pretty much every big update. It's also the reason many new players may turn away when they see these huge numbers made only to mildly annoy (if even that) a veteran with a huge stockplile of resources.

This whole resource management shenanigan consists only of beating around the bush applying bandaid after bandaid while ignoring the obvious and glaring issue. I'd just rework it so that we'd have to farm small resource quantities whenever a new item was released.

If they implement global resource decay, that means 99% of new player's resources would be wasted.

They should just stop balance things around vet, at least for resources, and introduce something else to fix content drought or whatever.

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16 hours ago, MetalGrayFox said:

This is the only resource of this nature that I know of, and to this day I still do not understand why the mechanic exists. 

Precisely so that you can't just stockpile everything. Making an item require argon crystals to craft is basically a way of ensuring that most players are going to have to earn that item by actually playing the game instead of just immediately building it from their resource stockpiles. Game devs wanting people to actually play their game, imagine that...

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16 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

 Game devs wanting people to actually play their game, imagine that...

So playing the game before new things came out doesn't counts as "play their game", yeah nothing wrong with that i think.

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27 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

So playing the game before new things came out doesn't counts as "play their game", yeah nothing wrong with that i think.

The problem DE has with that is when players get to the point of going "I signed into the game, started the clan research for the mountain/moon clan immediately out of pocket for the new items, and then signed out as there is nothing to do until the item is researched."
Because that is the problem DE had, and what people were complaining about.

DE wants you to play the game a bit more than signing in for 5 minutes, instantly starting the BP/Research, and then signing out until its finished building/researching.
After all consistent returning players is much more important to a game like warframe than the players that played for a thousand hours 12 months ago and barely signs into the game to build/research items without actually interacting with the game or its systems.
EVen if they can only get you playing a few missions long enough to grind the resources that is still better than the alternative...especially with the fact that by having you do at least that small amount will encourage a number of players to spend a much larger time in game just playing.

That and people complaining "I have so many of X resource, why don't I have anything that uses it!"  I mean the Sibear and Hema were almost direct responses to that sort of complaint.

16 hours ago, LSG501 said:

no idea what other sort of complaints you've seen because I haven't seen them...

Shortly before the Sibear was introduced, and again shortly before the hema was introduced, there were tons of complaints on the forums that we had too many resources and absolutely nothing to use them on, even naming Cryotic and Mutagen Samples as things we had massive stockpiles of with nothing to do with them.
People were also complaining because DE was releasing new weapons and they were signing in, funding the research, and then signing out without ever having to touch a mission.

So DE gave us weapons that took some of the resource stockpiles and gave people without those stockpiles a reason to grind out the resources...and you can see how well that went over when people on the forums started yelling that its too expensive.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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3 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Shortly before the Sibear was introduced, and again shortly before the hema was introduced, there were tons of complaints on the forums that we had too many resources and absolutely nothing to use them on, even naming Cryotic and Mutagen Samples as things we had massive stockpiles of with nothing to do with them.
People were also complaining because DE was releasing new weapons and they were signing in, funding the research, and then signing out without ever having to touch a mission.

So DE gave us weapons that took some of the resource stockpiles and gave people without those stockpiles a reason to grind out the resources...and you can see how well that went over when people on the forums started yelling that its too expensive.

I think people are overestimating how many resources the majority of players have, there will always be outliers who have excessive amounts and you shouldn't be making items purely around those people.  You also shouldn't be making it so all the time spent in advance accumulating resources goes to waste, which is exactly what would happen if they expired... as said above just imagine farming the hema with expiring resources. 

Now don't get me wrong I don't think things need to be made super easy either but I do feel that the constant 'new resources' kind of needs to slow down, we didn't even get any real crossover of resources between the open worlds let alone them and the starmap.. Plus imo it's only natural that if you've been here longer you will have more resources. 

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