Radial Javelin Rework

[Yunjuwo]

9 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

You mean, the autoblock that still happens when its selected with Quick Melee, and the manual block that still happens when you manually switch to your Melee weapon?

You should try those two out.

No, I meant what I said. You should read more carefully.

Or if you didn't know about it, that's fine too.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Yun_Woo-Seok

[Uhkretor]

6 minutes ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

No, I meant what I said. You should read more carefully.

Or if you didn't know about it, that's fine too.

... So did I... And, I did use Exalted Blade like... 5 minutes ago. Auto-blocked with Quick Melee, manually blocked after switching to Melee and using it.

 

Edit: Oh wait, pre-Melee phase 2... yeah, there was a time when that happened... I think it was called "Melee Phase 1" or something...

Edited December 30, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Yunjuwo]

On 2019-12-30 at 3:28 PM, Uhkretor said:

... So did I... And, I did use Exalted Blade like... 5 minutes ago. Auto-blocked with Quick Melee, manually blocked after switching to Melee and using it.

 

Edit: Oh wait, pre-Melee phase 2... yeah, there was a time when that happened... I think it was called "Melee Phase 1" or something...

Like I said, it's fine if you didn't know about it. Not everyone uses excal, and even less knew about it. I'm just imagining how effective it could be if it was still a thing now that all melee weapons have 100% DR.

Ignore my reminiscing. Back to the topic.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Yun_Woo-Seok

[divi_india]

Plain and simple, make Excalibur 3 to bestow health(equal to damage dealt) to warframe and allies within its radius. Damage and restored health is buffed when exalted blade is active.

Slash dash receives a large bonus(instead of small) when exalted blade is active.

Radial blind is okay for now.

When 4 is active, remove spin to blind mechanic completely, it's useless and instead add like a radius of 2m if anyone gets near Excalibur is automatically blinded. After all it's a blade of immense light.

Passive needs to be buffed. 10% is too meehhh.

[AlphaRyuuxx]

15 hours ago, divi_india said:

Plain and simple, make Excalibur 3 to bestow health(equal to damage dealt) to warframe and allies within its radius. Damage and restored health is buffed when exalted blade is active

But the ability doesn't do damage, that's the thing. The healing will be neg if its based off of damage. Even if the healing was respectable with EB buffing RJ's damage, having a heal on such a long cast time and only for that one moment seems awful. It's like a worse oberon 3 because it doesn't/wouldn't even have a constant aoe heal after said effect. Having to spend 3.5 seconds (1 second cast time + 2.5 second post cast animation delay) just for a heal that doesn't even have an after effect, it'll prob be faster to do a heavy slam with life strike or with magus elevate. Radial Javelin is already super interruptive to excalibur's gameplay, standing still while vulnerable is super bad for a frame who wants to be constantly on the move and swinging his melee.  

Having an ability like defy, or something akin to a warding halo/splinter storm idea that was edited recently in the OP, allows him to have a defensive tool (not cc/blind) that allows him to keep on going with having to be constantly interrupted by having to cast an ability for just a heal. 

[divi_india]

Yeah, so I looked into it more carfully. Umbra is my favourite frame but I hardly use his 3 because I thought it didn't match his play style because he's a fast moving frame standing still is asking for death. But to be honest survivability has always been a problem at very high levels, so I mostly used health restores.

Currently 3 sends out only 12 javlins which sucks. That should be changed to circular light wave and hitting everyone in the range. And casting time and post cast animation should be reduced significantly. The ability is useless right now, atleast I don't use it. But that doesn't mean we should change it with something else or copy some other ability from other frame.

Also I noticed that when you use slash dash in chain to evade heavy damage, the warframe is vulnerable to damage between cast(when the warframe stops moving and we have to press 1 again). Actually I noticed that Excalibur is only invulnerable when he's moving. When slash dash is used he brings out his skana and then charges and then he puts it away. He's only invulnerable when he's charging but not when he is taking out his skana or putting it away. So there is a period of vulnerability in successive uses slash dash. I have tried using macro for this purpose also so I know it's not related to perfect timing.

Anyway, I think that Excalibur is a very strong frame and my favourite but when it comes to buffing him, hell yeah why not?

Edited January 2, 2020 by divi_india

[AlphaRyuuxx]

1 hour ago, divi_india said:

The ability is useless right now, atleast I don't use it. But that doesn't mean we should change it with something else or copy some other ability from other frame.

I mean its precisely because it's useless that we should change it. An ability that locks said frame into place doesn't fit excals playstyle. Also damage reduction abilities aren't unique, many frames have them with their own twists. Ember has it and is covered in fire, Nezha has it and is covered in fiery rings, Gara has it and is covered in glass shards. Giving Excal a defensive ability, that isn't blind, that will allow him to continue to move and slash away is something he needs. 

[CopperBezel]

More importantly re: twists, no two work exactly alike in gameplay terms, cosmetic effects aside. They scale differently, they have different caps, they have different ways of managing duration, they have different conditions to meet, etc. Rhino, Nezha, and Wukong all have to do the same thing to get different results, only one of which is true percent DR, and one of which benefits a high-armor build slightly less while the other two benefit directly from armor; Mesa, Trinity, and Gara all press a button and immediately get percent DR on a duration timer and something to reflect back at enemies, but with different exceptions, perks, caps, and build requirements. Ember's DR and Nova's DR each stack to 90% with the right build and have no exceptions, yet each comes with different perks and each requires a different song and dance number to maintain.

Edited January 2, 2020 by CopperBezel

[NuclearCoffeePot]

12 hours ago, AlphaRyuuxx said:

But the ability doesn't do damage, that's the thing. The healing will be neg if its based off of damage. Even if the healing was respectable with EB buffing RJ's damage, having a heal on such a long cast time and only for that one moment seems awful. It's like a worse oberon 3 because it doesn't/wouldn't even have a constant aoe heal after said effect. Having to spend 3.5 seconds (1 second cast time + 2.5 second post cast animation delay) just for a heal that doesn't even have an after effect, it'll prob be faster to do a heavy slam with life strike or with magus elevate. Radial Javelin is already super interruptive to excalibur's gameplay, standing still while vulnerable is super bad for a frame who wants to be constantly on the move and swinging his melee.  

Having an ability like defy, or something akin to a warding halo/splinter storm idea that was edited recently in the OP, allows him to have a defensive tool (not cc/blind) that allows him to keep on going with having to be constantly interrupted by having to cast an ability for just a heal. 

MK- Here is an idea quick, on cast Excal performs a similar cast animation and create's projectiles that seek out enemies in range of the ability, for every enemy struck he gains lifesteal, with every enemy struck that he kills he increases the lifesteal from that stack and refreshes the durtion

[Yunjuwo]

1 hour ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

MK- Here is an idea quick, on cast Excal performs a similar cast animation and create's projectiles that seek out enemies in range of the ability, for every enemy struck he gains lifesteal, with every enemy struck that he kills he increases the lifesteal from that stack and refreshes the durtion

"lifesteal" aka "health regen based on dmg" aka "press 3 to spend 75 energy to get 0-12 health back"

No thank you

[Yunjuwo]

What no one seems to understand here is that when the OP says excal needs survivability, that doesn't necessarily mean healing. When the topic "excal needs survivability" is brought up, it's not because excal can't heal when he takes dmg(there are already SO many ways to heal in this game), it's because excal can't survive the dmg in the first place.

Think about it. Which is better: healing or defense? Obviously you guys think healing is better because hey it's healing and who doesn't like that? Actually defense is better because what use is healing when you'll just be killed in one shot? Yes this will only happen at higher levels... but that's the point. What do you need healing for? Lower levels where you can survive the hits? The enemies can't even kill you at those levels. And again: there are A LOT of ways to heal.

Heals are nice but worthless if you're already dead.

 

[Ender140]

Turn his 3 to a rage skill. Increases defense and attack speed. Uses duration and strength mods. While at this state his immune to magnetic proc. So at least our sentient killer (Umbra) can actually be viable in eidolon hunts. Also give him innate lifesteal. Most melee based characters in most games have some form of lifesteal. So why not our most melee focused frame?

[NuclearCoffeePot]

6 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

"lifesteal" aka "health regen based on dmg" aka "press 3 to spend 75 energy to get 0-12 health back"

No thank you

I never specified it would be healing a single digit for every enemy stuck, values were not provided

6 hours ago, Yun_Woo-Seok said:

What no one seems to understand here is that when the OP says excal needs survivability, that doesn't necessarily mean healing. When the topic "excal needs survivability" is brought up, it's not because excal can't heal when he takes dmg(there are already SO many ways to heal in this game), it's because excal can't survive the dmg in the first place.

Think about it. Which is better: healing or defense? Obviously you guys think healing is better because hey it's healing and who doesn't like that? Actually defense is better because what use is healing when you'll just be killed in one shot? Yes this will only happen at higher levels... but that's the point. What do you need healing for? Lower levels where you can survive the hits? The enemies can't even kill you at those levels. And again: there are A LOT of ways to heal.

Heals are nice but worthless if you're already dead.

I already provided a non heal idea, also the reason I provided a heal concept was mainly because I recently spent time on a post where we talked about how new melee meant healing with excal blade is less effective without old channeling since you have to heavy attack or use healing return which is suboptimal

 

-and all you need to do to make a healing ability work as a defense tool too is just have excess healing added to a buffer or convert it into dmg reduction or armour-

Edited January 3, 2020 by NuclearCoffeePot

[AlphaRyuuxx]

2 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I recently spent time on a post where we talked about how new melee meant healing with excal blade is less effective without old channeling since you have to heavy attack or use healing return which is suboptimal

I mean granted if excal had an ability to aid him defensively, then the need for healing etc would be negligible. 

 

2 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

 Here is an idea quick, on cast Excal performs a similar cast animation and create's projectiles that seek out enemies in range of the ability, for every enemy struck he gains lifesteal, with every enemy struck that he kills he increases the lifesteal from that stack and refreshes the durtion

and all you need to do to make a healing ability work as a defense tool too is just have excess healing added to a buffer or convert it into dmg reduction or armour-

I mean would it still be a LOS requirement? And even then, having a defensive ability rely on enemies is pretty bad in the world of map nukers and teammates killing stuff before they can hit you or you can hit them (*cough harrow *cough). Wukong gets away with it because of the conversion multiplier. 

And would that excess healing be unique to excal? Because I feel like that would be way too abusable with other frames who already have forms of survivability

Edited January 3, 2020 by AlphaRyuuxx

[NuclearCoffeePot]

13 hours ago, AlphaRyuuxx said:

I mean would it still be a LOS requirement? And even then, having a defensive ability rely on enemies is pretty bad in the world of map nukers and teammates killing stuff before they can hit you or you can hit them (*cough harrow *cough). Wukong gets away with it because of the conversion multiplier. 

You could make it however you want, it could even be a channel that consistently marks enemies around you- on the topic of nukers if enemies die before you can hit them then there is no need to use the abiity anyway, it will come in handy when the nuker damage gets outscaled by enemies though- 

13 hours ago, AlphaRyuuxx said:

And would that excess healing be unique to excal? Because I feel like that would be way too abusable with other frames who already have forms of survivability

Your right on the abusal part- if we want excal to be able to heal even when nukers are killing enemies around him before we can hit them then we can make it so that ally damage to targets marked by the ability will still provide healing to you- The health buffer can have a cap and after that cap limit is reached it can start to effect allies, in order of lowest health/defensive stats- this way it will help you no matter what, as long as you have the ability active, and it only starts helping allies one by one, in order of the allies who don't have as much defensiveness like nova, it might eve ignore allies who have defensive abilities active like rhino skin, defy, kinetic plating, immolation etc

[AlphaRyuuxx]

7 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

You could make it however you want, it could even be a channel that consistently marks enemies around you- on the topic of nukers if enemies die before you can hit them then there is no need to use the abiity anyway, it will come in handy when the nuker damage gets outscaled by enemies though- 

Your right on the abusal part- if we want excal to be able to heal even when nukers are killing enemies around him before we can hit them then we can make it so that ally damage to targets marked by the ability will still provide healing to you- The health buffer can have a cap and after that cap limit is reached it can start to effect allies, in order of lowest health/defensive stats- this way it will help you no matter what, as long as you have the ability active, and it only starts helping allies one by one, in order of the allies who don't have as much defensiveness like nova, it might eve ignore allies who have defensive abilities active like rhino skin, defy, kinetic plating, immolation etc

Would the damage reduction have a duration or would it drain similar to how gauss 2 works? say you're full hp and you're whacking enemies and ur building DR, say to about 60%, how long would it last? Would it have its own duration or would the DR go down as u get damaged or maybe have it so since its a channel ability, would it last as long as the ability is turned on and maybe has a lingering effect even after the abilities deactivated. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by AlphaRyuuxx

[Yunjuwo]

Summons swords of light that can either defend, or launch themselves at enemies.

Excalibur summons 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 ethereal Skanas that encircle him. If Excalibur is knocked down, a Skana is lost. Each Skana offers 10% damage reduction, and pressing the ability key again fires the remaining Skanas at enemies within a 90 degrees cone in front of Excalibur 15 / 18 / 22 / 25 meters long. Each Skana has a base damage of 500 / 650 / 800 / 1000.

• Damage ignores shields and armor, and is distributed as 15% Impact, 15% Puncture, and 70% Slash.
  • With Exalted Blade active, Skanas also apply Slash procs when they hit their target.
• Damage is affected by Ability Strength, stealth multipliers (e.g. Radial Blind), and the combo counter.
• Number of Skanas is affected by Ability Strength.
• Cone length is affected by Ability Range while cone width is not.
  • Skanas will automatically seek out enemies if they are within range. If there are more Skanas than enemies, enemies can be targeted again by the leftover Skanas, starting with the closest.
• Launching the Skanas do not require additional energy.
• Activation cost of 100 energy is affected by Ability Efficiency.
• While the ability is active, lost Skanas can be recovered with each enemy hit by Slash Dash, if there is at least one Skana remaining.

[CopperBezel]

On 2020-01-02 at 12:50 PM, Ender140 said:

Turn his 3 to a rage skill. Increases defense and attack speed. Uses duration and strength mods. While at this state his immune to magnetic proc. So at least our sentient killer (Umbra) can actually be viable in eidolon hunts. Also give him innate lifesteal. Most melee based characters in most games have some form of lifesteal. So why not our most melee focused frame?

I like this. I already like the idea of life steal on melee as a part of a castable ability, Excal is sorely missing his Life Strike build, and attack speed buffs are legitimately always fun. It's also hard to ask for a better synergy with Exalted Blade and Slash Dash. Making this a duration based buff instead of channeled is a necessity, but it also means it'd be a rarely used super mode at low levels / MR and very likely a buff to constantly maintain at high ones. Just 50% DR or doubling his modded armor seems like it might do it on the defense side....

[waterboytkd]

Out of curiosity, for those that feel Excal (Umbra or Prime, specifically) is squishy, what's your build? When I play Excal, I never feel squishy, even running up to level 150 baddies in Arbitrations. But then, I realize, I run a lot of armor and health mods. 

For reference, my build: All 3 Umbral mods, Armored Agility, Gladiator Aegis, Gladiator Resolve, Adaptation, with my last spot being flexible (currently Chromatic Blade; but I don't really ever cast EB), Handspring in the exilus, and Swift Momentum in the aura. The Gladiator mods are also because the build focuses on using a Blood Rush build on a Nikana (so Gladiator Might for the extra crit damage), with a Daikyu in the primary slot with the Daikyu amalgam mod for lifesteal on the Nikana. 

This build is incredibly tanky while also dishing out loads of melee weapon damage. Unfortunately, the only ability really worth using in Excal's kit is Radial Howl. 

The success I've had with the above build is why I think the only defensive addition Excal needs is maybe 2-3% lifesteal on his Swordsmanship passive. But would that necessitate modding Excal much like I do above, putting most of your mod space towards health and armor? It might, but maybe that's okay given his economically costed, large range 360 degree stun? Genuinely ruminating on those points, not putting them out as fact.

I do think Excal needs some work. But given my experiences with him (and the way I've succeeded or struggled with him in varying content), here's how I would tweak him:

• add 2-3% lifesteal to his Swordsmanship passive.
• Change Slash Dash attacks to: Heavy Attacks with your Exalted Blade, utilizing your current Combo Counter, but with 10%/20%/30%/40% combo efficiency (affected by Ability Strength). For clarity, each hit is a Heavy Attack, and consumes the appropriate amount of Combo Counter.
• Change Radial Javelin attacks to: regular melee attack with your Exalted Blade (aside from being ranged, of course), so builds combo counter, but also builds an additional 1/2/3/4 combo counter (affected by Ability Strength).
• Change Radial Javelin cost to 25 energy.
• Update the stats on Exalted Blade to be more in line with melee 3.0 weapons (especially its Crit profile, make it 25%, with 2x multiplier at the very least; wouldn't mind seeing a 28% with a 2.4x multiplier, like Nikana prime, which would mean guaranteed crits with a max Sacrificial mod set, which also seems appropriate in power level).

This would give him a lot of synergy in his kit, especially with his EB. His Slash Dash now has the chance for crits and status effects, as does Radial Javelin. Radial Javelin is both great at the start of a mission/fight when you need to build up Combo Counter, and after a Slash Dash if it depleted your combo counter (though you're probably waiting until the next group of enemies). Radial Javelin also acts as a buff for regular melee attacks, as well as Slash Dash. And lastly, as far as defense goes, Slash Dash, Radial Javelin, and Exalted Blade all heal Excal due to the change to his passive, meaning if you need more defense, you would accomplish that through modding (maybe this is okay/balanced, maybe not; I feel it is, but acknowledge that it might shoehorn Excal builds).

EDIT: An issue with my above stuff is that it makes Chromatic Blade an augment for 3 out of 4 abilities, which is pretty nuts. Granted, the other augments are fairly dookie. But to balance it, maybe also adjust up the base Status Chance on Exalted Blade, and then remove the bonus status chance on Chromatic Blade, so it only turns the IPS on EB into a single energy type? Thought it's still an augment for all 3 abilities, it's no longer bringing essentially a guaranteed status effect proc. Dunno, and there probably is a better fix.

Edited January 7, 2020 by waterboytkd

[NuclearCoffeePot]

On 2020-01-02 at 2:46 AM, divi_india said:

That should be changed to circular light wave and hitting everyone in the range. And casting time and post cast animation should be reduced significantly. The ability is useless right now, atleast I don't use it. But that doesn't mean we should change it with something else or copy some other ability from other frame.

Also I noticed that when you use slash dash in chain to evade heavy damage, the warframe is vulnerable to damage between cast(when the warframe stops moving and we have to press 1 again). Actually I noticed that Excalibur is only invulnerable when he's moving. When slash dash is used he brings out his skana and then charges and then he puts it away. He's only invulnerable when he's charging but not when he is taking out his skana or putting it away. So there is a period of vulnerability in successive uses slash dash. I have tried using macro for this purpose also so I know it's not related to perfect timing.

On the first ring comment- Im going to expand on that into a defensive build- On activation Excalibur creates a halo of light around him, expanding as he damages enemies and stunning enemies who enter it for a duration- the max expansion is based on range and weapon fire has a high % to be blocked by the ring- this enables him to block fire from enemies farther away while balancing it so enemies who get close in his optimal melee range for use of things like life-strike he stuns them for long enough to take advantage and kill them-

For the second with slash dash having a vulnerability period why not give it a combo duration like ember or atlas 1- the higher the count the more damage reduction he gains in his vulnerability stage

[Ender140]

On 2020-01-07 at 8:44 PM, waterboytkd said:

Out of curiosity, for those that feel Excal (Umbra or Prime, specifically) is squishy, what's your build? When I play Excal, I never feel squishy, even running up to level 150 baddies in Arbitrations. But then, I realize, I run a lot of armor and health mods. 

For reference, my build: All 3 Umbral mods, Armored Agility, Gladiator Aegis, Gladiator Resolve, Adaptation, with my last spot being flexible (currently Chromatic Blade; but I don't really ever cast EB), Handspring in the exilus, and Swift Momentum in the aura. The Gladiator mods are also because the build focuses on using a Blood Rush build on a Nikana (so Gladiator Might for the extra crit damage), with a Daikyu in the primary slot with the Daikyu amalgam mod for lifesteal on the Nikana. 

This build is incredibly tanky while also dishing out loads of melee weapon damage. Unfortunately, the only ability really worth using in Excal's kit is Radial Howl. 

The success I've had with the above build is why I think the only defensive addition Excal needs is maybe 2-3% lifesteal on his Swordsmanship passive. But would that necessitate modding Excal much like I do above, putting most of your mod space towards health and armor? It might, but maybe that's okay given his economically costed, large range 360 degree stun? Genuinely ruminating on those points, not putting them out as fact.

I do think Excal needs some work. But given my experiences with him (and the way I've succeeded or struggled with him in varying content), here's how I would tweak him:

• add 2-3% lifesteal to his Swordsmanship passive.
• Change Slash Dash attacks to: Heavy Attacks with your Exalted Blade, utilizing your current Combo Counter, but with 10%/20%/30%/40% combo efficiency (affected by Ability Strength). For clarity, each hit is a Heavy Attack, and consumes the appropriate amount of Combo Counter.
• Change Radial Javelin attacks to: regular melee attack with your Exalted Blade (aside from being ranged, of course), so builds combo counter, but also builds an additional 1/2/3/4 combo counter (affected by Ability Strength).
• Change Radial Javelin cost to 25 energy.
• Update the stats on Exalted Blade to be more in line with melee 3.0 weapons (especially its Crit profile, make it 25%, with 2x multiplier at the very least; wouldn't mind seeing a 28% with a 2.4x multiplier, like Nikana prime, which would mean guaranteed crits with a max Sacrificial mod set, which also seems appropriate in power level).

This would give him a lot of synergy in his kit, especially with his EB. His Slash Dash now has the chance for crits and status effects, as does Radial Javelin. Radial Javelin is both great at the start of a mission/fight when you need to build up Combo Counter, and after a Slash Dash if it depleted your combo counter (though you're probably waiting until the next group of enemies). Radial Javelin also acts as a buff for regular melee attacks, as well as Slash Dash. And lastly, as far as defense goes, Slash Dash, Radial Javelin, and Exalted Blade all heal Excal due to the change to his passive, meaning if you need more defense, you would accomplish that through modding (maybe this is okay/balanced, maybe not; I feel it is, but acknowledge that it might shoehorn Excal builds).

EDIT: An issue with my above stuff is that it makes Chromatic Blade an augment for 3 out of 4 abilities, which is pretty nuts. Granted, the other augments are fairly dookie. But to balance it, maybe also adjust up the base Status Chance on Exalted Blade, and then remove the bonus status chance on Chromatic Blade, so it only turns the IPS on EB into a single energy type? Thought it's still an augment for all 3 abilities, it's no longer bringing essentially a guaranteed status effect proc. Dunno, and there probably is a better fix.

Umbra and prime are mostly squishy when your build if mostly focused on your exalted weapon. Which most excal mains use him for. If his chromatic blade gets any weaker right after condition overload got nerfed along side his life strike, I have a feeling most excal players would just stop using excal.

[Ender140]

On 2019-10-21 at 8:10 AM, Uhkretor said:

So... a Damage Sink?

 

Dude, that's exactly what Excal isn't. Excal's survivability bases itself on your ability to actively dodge and/or blocking fire and/or other attacks, not taking it. No wonder you're suggesting those changes to Radial Javelin...

Dodging with a melee based? His kit is mostly melee based. 1 gives combo and puts you on melee range. His 2 is a cc that opens finishes. 3 is useless but can be augmented to increase melee damage. 4 is melee.

I see his role to be somewhere similar to valkyr or wukong. A melee based frame with decent survivability. 

If you noticed with Valkyr and Wukong. THEY BOTH HAVE ARMOR SKILLS. Valkyr already has an absurd amount of armor but it doesn't make her as tanky as Inaros or Rhino. Unless you go to her 4 in which case she out tanks them if you can maintain it. And Wukong is just Wukong. We already know how tanky monkey boy can get

Also since when was excal supposed to dodge? We relied on getting damaged in order to maintain energy. If your using him with mostly guns then you might wanna switch to frost instead.

Excal is designed to be the most basic frame for beginners. Why would he be made to not be at least decent at damage absorption? Why would you give a beginner a frame that needs you to constantly dodge?

Yes he isn't a tank but his not an absurd dps dealer either. His a generalist. His supposed to be somewhere in the middle so that newer players can decide which play style they preferred.

The problem now was the enemy lvls got increased which means their armor scales up and their dmg scales up as well. Not to mention his 2 signature mods rework, life strike and condition overload. As before he comfortably sits in higher mid tier; his now struggling to survive while maintaining dmg.

[Uhkretor]

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

His kit is mostly melee based. 1 gives combo and puts you on melee range. His 2 is a cc that opens finishes. 3 is useless but can be augmented to increase melee damage. 4 is melee.

Yes, It is.

Slash Dash does that, with a remarkable damage amount that's only significant at enemies within a level range between 1 to 10, despite using the Exalted Blade for it... True, it isn't a physical manifestation, but its the Exalted Blade nonetheless.

Radial Blind/Howl does that, true. Killing speed being highly dependent on the Melee weapon you're using and if you're either in front or behind the target.

Radial Javelin, which is the purpose of this topic to come up with improvement ideas, appears to be useless because enemies within its max efficiency range only exist from Eris and below, excluding Lich Missions.

Exalted Blade can and is used at close distances by pretty much most players but its advised to be used in Melee because that's where its max efficiency lies in.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

If you noticed with Valkyr and Wukong. THEY BOTH HAVE ARMOR SKILLS. Valkyr already has an absurd amount of armor but it doesn't make her as tanky as Inaros or Rhino. Unless you go to her 4 in which case she out tanks them if you can maintain it. And Wukong is just Wukong. We already know how tanky monkey boy can get.

I did notice it, they're simply not relevant enough for me to care. You'll understand why later on this post.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Also since when was excal supposed to dodge?

Since there's a dodge button. I don't think you would really understand why Excal is supposed to dodge if you haven't spend enough time in the game like I did, or anyone else that has been in the game as long (or longer). But hey, a Warframe's performance is pretty much player dependent anyway so~... You'll understand why later on this post.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

We relied on getting damaged in order to maintain energy.

I don't, because I don't depend on energy to survive and kill.

If anyone else does, that's his/her choice on the matter.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

If your using him with mostly guns then you might wanna switch to frost instead.

Guns make the choice of Warframe irrelevant. Even the novelty variation tied to each Warframe is useless, unless there a specific mission type and/or game mode tied to it... Like Saryn/Prime.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Excal is designed to be the most basic frame for beginners.

It is.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Why would he be made to not be at least decent at damage absorption?

The thing that players usually think as "decent at damage absorption" isn't the absurdity level ranges that players insist on reaching.

And the other thing that annoys people the most is having a Warframe meant for Melee that, "apparently", isn't decent at damage absorption just because there are 2 or 3 other Warframes that take damage to the face and "apparently" have higher resilience at withstanding it.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Why would you give a beginner a frame that needs you to constantly dodge?

... Gee, I wonder why... I thought that it was to teach them that dodging is actually more effective than taking hits to the face like morons but~, it might also be to improve DE's general amusement levels...

Spoiler

... Who knows...

27 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Yes he isn't a tank but his not an absurd dps dealer either. His a generalist. His supposed to be somewhere in the middle so that newer players can decide which play style they preferred.

That's one of the reasons why Excal's available as a beginner Warframe.

27 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

The problem now was the enemy lvls got increased which means their armor scales up and their dmg scales up as well.

That's an illusion. I believe that it was [DE]Steve that mentioned it during one of the devstreams... Warframe is balanced up, and including, to lvl100, in which a few specific missions or conditions will reach slightly above during a given mission.

Enemy level range has been kept the same. Players simply get themselves into broken level ranges and then blame the game for it when they have caused their own mistake.

32 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

Not to mention his 2 signature mods rework, life strike and condition overload. As before he comfortably sits in higher mid tier; his now struggling to survive while maintaining dmg.

... What classifies those two as "signature mods"? Is it the image used for said mods?

32 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

 As before he comfortably sits in higher mid tier; his now struggling to survive while maintaining dmg.

That's the thing... Excal only struggles like that, on the hands of an average player, after entering broken levels...

Does it get better in better hands? Probably.

5 minutes ago, Ender140 said:

I see his role to be somewhere similar to valkyr or wukong. A melee based frame with decent survivability.

"Survivability" has many faces to it. A Warframe that takes hits to the face like a stupid wall has as much survivability as a Warframe that can't take hits to the face.

However, the player that's controlling it decides if the Warframe has high survivability or not. Which makes "Survivability" player dependent and not Warframe dependent.

 

If you've missed one of my replies on the matter, let me put it here for you...

On 2019-10-21 at 4:18 AM, Uhkretor said:

... My Excal doesn't need survivability, since I can reach lvl250+ enemies with it on my own...

Do I get hit in the face? Sure.

If I do get hit, how do I survive despite what you've mentioned? Here's why.

On 2019-10-21 at 5:10 AM, Uhkretor said:

Excal's survivability bases itself on your ability to actively dodge and/or blocking fire and/or other attacks, not taking it.

... Which means that:

Quote

"Survivability" has many faces to it. A Warframe that takes hits to the face like a stupid wall has as much survivability as a Warframe that can't take hits to the face.

However, the player that's controlling it decides if the Warframe has high survivability or not. Which makes "Survivability" player dependent and not Warframe dependent.

I hope I was able to explain myself properly.

[divi_india]

Explain how to dodge when 5 lvl150 bombards fire 15 homing missiles at you that how AOE. Even if they manage to miss(which is almost impossible) warframes simply would stagger or knockdown because of blast proc of explosion.

Plus you cant dodge and fire weapons or do melee together.

Some people here reach lvl 250 on their own by dodging. Interesting!

[Yunjuwo]

I think this is more of an overall issue with enemy ai rather than an excalibur-specific issue. No matter how good you are at dodging, enemies WILL hit you with their hitscan weapons and perfect accuracy. And go far enough into a mission(even though there's no point in doing so), and death by one-shot is inevitable. The recent devstream 136 had me thinking that enemies' damage shouldn't get buffed, rather their tactics should. Like the gun gale arc in sword art online, have enemies with guns track you with a sight line for one second, then stop tracking you for one more second before they fire bullets along that line; this will give players enough time to realize "I'm about to be shot if I stay here, I should really move". Then taking a page out of Halo, grenades deal A LOT of damage in warframe and even though they have a long timer and we can hear them 1) they're practically invisible and 2) they can be prematurely detonated when damaged. Give grenades a visible glow/shine/aura/whatever, and have them go off only when the timer is finished(and not when we accidentally bullet jump off them -_-), and that's another stupid way to die checked off the list. You could probably even halve the timer before they explode and it would still be fair. The game's movement system is great, so emphasize it visually with cues from enemies when they're about to attack. This way players feel better, tangible improvement, and cooler even, when they learn to dodge bullets in a game where they are essentially space ninjas, while at the same time survivability becomes less of an issue for squishier frames. And for buffing enemies, one way is have them shoot where you are even when you're invisible IF 1) you used a weapon that isn't silent or 2) you killed a fellow grineer within their vicinity. BUT they can only fire once and only with the above mentioned sight line warning(obviously they wouldn't be able to track you but the sight lines would still point to where you shot from). This way, invisibility isn't a complete cheese of the game but not nerfed into the ground either; rather it is now a fair mechanic that can still be extremely helpful if you have the skills to use it--almost like a game of chess: you make a move, then they make move, instead of just serving themselves on a silver platter for you to butcher with next no risk like they do now.

Sorry for deviating from the topic.

On 2020-01-07 at 8:44 AM, waterboytkd said:

Out of curiosity, for those that feel Excal (Umbra or Prime, specifically) is squishy, what's your build? When I play Excal, I never feel squishy, even running up to level 150 baddies in Arbitrations. But then, I realize, I run a lot of armor and health mods. 

For reference, my build: All 3 Umbral mods, Armored Agility, Gladiator Aegis, Gladiator Resolve, Adaptation, with my last spot being flexible (currently Chromatic Blade; but I don't really ever cast EB), Handspring in the exilus, and Swift Momentum in the aura. The Gladiator mods are also because the build focuses on using a Blood Rush build on a Nikana (so Gladiator Might for the extra crit damage), with a Daikyu in the primary slot with the Daikyu amalgam mod for lifesteal on the Nikana. 

This build is incredibly tanky while also dishing out loads of melee weapon damage. Unfortunately, the only ability really worth using in Excal's kit is Radial Howl. 

The success I've had with the above build is why I think the only defensive addition Excal needs is maybe 2-3% lifesteal on his Swordsmanship passive. But would that necessitate modding Excal much like I do above, putting most of your mod space towards health and armor? It might, but maybe that's okay given his economically costed, large range 360 degree stun? Genuinely ruminating on those points, not putting them out as fact.

I do think Excal needs some work. But given my experiences with him (and the way I've succeeded or struggled with him in varying content), here's how I would tweak him:

• add 2-3% lifesteal to his Swordsmanship passive.
• Change Slash Dash attacks to: Heavy Attacks with your Exalted Blade, utilizing your current Combo Counter, but with 10%/20%/30%/40% combo efficiency (affected by Ability Strength). For clarity, each hit is a Heavy Attack, and consumes the appropriate amount of Combo Counter.
• Change Radial Javelin attacks to: regular melee attack with your Exalted Blade (aside from being ranged, of course), so builds combo counter, but also builds an additional 1/2/3/4 combo counter (affected by Ability Strength).
• Change Radial Javelin cost to 25 energy.
• Update the stats on Exalted Blade to be more in line with melee 3.0 weapons (especially its Crit profile, make it 25%, with 2x multiplier at the very least; wouldn't mind seeing a 28% with a 2.4x multiplier, like Nikana prime, which would mean guaranteed crits with a max Sacrificial mod set, which also seems appropriate in power level).

This would give him a lot of synergy in his kit, especially with his EB. His Slash Dash now has the chance for crits and status effects, as does Radial Javelin. Radial Javelin is both great at the start of a mission/fight when you need to build up Combo Counter, and after a Slash Dash if it depleted your combo counter (though you're probably waiting until the next group of enemies). Radial Javelin also acts as a buff for regular melee attacks, as well as Slash Dash. And lastly, as far as defense goes, Slash Dash, Radial Javelin, and Exalted Blade all heal Excal due to the change to his passive, meaning if you need more defense, you would accomplish that through modding (maybe this is okay/balanced, maybe not; I feel it is, but acknowledge that it might shoehorn Excal builds).

EDIT: An issue with my above stuff is that it makes Chromatic Blade an augment for 3 out of 4 abilities, which is pretty nuts. Granted, the other augments are fairly dookie. But to balance it, maybe also adjust up the base Status Chance on Exalted Blade, and then remove the bonus status chance on Chromatic Blade, so it only turns the IPS on EB into a single energy type? Thought it's still an augment for all 3 abilities, it's no longer bringing essentially a guaranteed status effect proc. Dunno, and there probably is a better fix.

I run with the umbrals, adaptation, and arcane grace, if we're just talking about excalibur builds. Not as much devotion to defensive mods as you but I like to think it's a pretty balanced build where I can still use all my abilities.

Also, if your Radial Javelin idea is an offensive style one, then I have to say three things about your Slash Dash changes. 1) It can be a heavy attack sure but don't change the animation for it. Besides the statistical stuff, Slash Dash coming out quick and snappy is why I, and I'm betting a lot of other people, use it. 2) Let it have 100% combo efficiency. We also use Slash Dash for the invulnerability and movement it provides, so consuming combo when my intention was to defend myself rather than attack, or get from point A to point B quicker, is a bad. Slash Dash already consumes energy anyway, so just giving excalibur the "freedom of choice" on how to reset his combo duration, whether it be with the melee weapon itself or Slash Dash, is a fair buff. 3) I'm still on the side that's saying excalibur needs survivability so maybe extend excal's invulnerability period after performing Slash Dash by one second? Or he gets some kind of defensive buff per enemy hit by Slash Dash? idk