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chainchompguy3

A thread Focused on what people "Actually" want from melee

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I want a thread that just cuts to the chase.

I just want people to Say what they want; how they currently are-or-are-not getting that want; and how this want can be changed in the future.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love that there's lots of detailed discussion going on right now. But recently, a lot of the discussion just hasn't seemed worthwhile.

 

There is the completely-non-constructive insults, there always is.

But even amongst those trying to honestly get across their ideas, they seemed so bogged down in trying to Justify their ideas, or worrying about numbers (The part that's easiest to change). Or considering a single change in-a-vacuum, ignoring relevant factors.

 

The thing that matters most to a videogame is FEEL. It's supposed to feel FUN.

If you find something fun, just say so!

If it's fun, people will help you add/keep it in the game. Because we're here to have fun too.

 

Ideally, there really shouldn't be much actual back-and-forth going on, besides perhaps talking with someone to see if their idea for execution could be done better. But we really shouldn't be heatedly arguing over things that are explicitly subjective.

 

I'll start, to help set up a format:

 

Want---

  • I like the idea of having largely uninhibited movement when swinging melee weapons. I continue to play warframe over other games because it's movement provides a great deal of self-expression, but I only really seem to get that with Primary/Secondary weapons. Not melee.

How it is, Now---

  • The current melee system has combos that override player movement with their own. And while the Aerial attacks do exist, their limitation of 1-per-jump leads them to being almost useless in terms of being an efficient weapon, especially on high-speed, low-individual-damage weapons. This is not good for me.
  • Slide attacks, while they do have a degree of movement override, are extremely predictable with it, allowing for players to incorporate it into their movement, rather than interrupt it. This is currently some of my only recourse for feeling mobile while melee-ing.

How it Could Be---

Spoiler

 

DE has suggested making combos more uniform, so that combos that move you forward are activated by attempting to move forward, etc.

They have Also suggested Aerial Combos.

I feel this would be a satisfactory, but not ideal, solution.

It adequately touches up the parts where Warframe currently falls the flattest.

 

The Ideal, however, would be to completely remove melee's effects on movement, letting players directly control all movement they make, even when melee-ing.

...mostly.

I will concede that a means of making an attack feel more momentous is to make it feel slow-to-build, which is best achieved with slowed movement capabilities.

So for Heavy Weapons/Attacks, some degree of limitation would be acceptable.

But for lighter weapons, it would very much desired that they could be swung with as little effect on movement as Guns.

 

Overall, I am able to gladly take this offering, in return for my current means of satisfaction (Slide attacks) getting nerfed.

 

 

 

Want---

  • I like simple, reliable attacks more than fancy flourishes, for both aesthetic and mechanical-feel reasons. Their simplicity feels almost barbaric, which is how I play, while their reliability helps to make the act of landing them go as expected.

How it is, Now---

  • A significant portion of the Combos for melee weapons add extravagant flourishes, which looks quite nice on their own. But for gameplay feel, the majority of those flourishes do not meet my want.
  • Currently, I scratch this itch by using melee slide-attacks most frequently. They are always the same spinning animation, every time. Very simple, very reliable.

How it Could Be---

Spoiler

DE is simplifying combos, making it easier to perform the effect desired at a given time.

This could theoretically provide a near-perfect solution, allowing me to decide for myself which Weapon types, Stances, or individual attacks are more flourish than they're worth, and allows me to avoid using them.

People who like the flourish can still have it, and people like myself can easily and effectively avoid it.

 

But much has yet to be shown in this regard, so further evaluation of this is in order.

It could very well be that there are no weapon attacks in the new system that are fitting of my want.

If such proves true, the solution would then most easily be to ask for some new stances.

 

 

Want---

  • A clearly defined stat trade-off system, for choosing weapons.
    • For example, a "Pick two" system. [Damage], [Swing-Speed], [Range]. Pick two, the third will be negative. Or pick one, and the other two receive only minor negatives.

How it is, Now---

  • Zaws give some degree of this, allowing Damage and Speed to be inversely proportional, and the same to Crit and Status. But this is both a Bland trade off system, with only 4 major choices (Fast-Crit, Damage-Crit, Fast-Status, Damage-status), but it also doesn't hold true for any of the rest of the melee system. Gram Prime, for example. has quite a bit of Damage, Crit, and Status, with it's lack of speed easily made up for. Dual Ether, on the other hand, has the reverse: High speed, and very little of anything else.

How it Could Be---

Spoiler

DE is planning on Rebalancing weapons stats, but so far all we have seen is just straight buffs, with no significant stat-distribution patterns.

This very well could be the solution, but it could also be a problem.

If it is the solution, Amazing! meaningful weapon choices, where you pick something because it does what you like 🙂 .

If it isn't the solution, then it will set up a period of time where people are putting heavy investment in new melee weapons, meaning it'd be extremely difficult to then change the stats a second time without rendering quite a few people's efforts (And possibly platinum) wasted.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by chainchompguy3
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26 minutes ago, chainchompguy3 said:

 

Spoiler

 

I want a thread that just cuts to the chase.

I just want people to Say what they want; how they currently are-or-are-not getting that want; and how this want can be changed in the future.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love that there's lots of detailed discussion going on right now. But recently, a lot of the discussion just hasn't seemed worthwhile.

 

There is the completely-non-constructive insults, there always is.

But even amongst those trying to honestly get across their ideas, they seemed so bogged down in trying to Justify their ideas, or worrying about numbers (The part that's easiest to change). Or considering a single change in-a-vacuum, ignoring relevant factors.

 

The thing that matters most to a videogame is FEEL. It's supposed to feel FUN.

If you find something fun, just say so!

If it's fun, people will help you add/keep it in the game. Because we're here to have fun too.

 

Ideally, there really shouldn't be much actual back-and-forth going on, besides perhaps talking with someone to see if their idea for execution could be done better. But we really shouldn't be heatedly arguing over things that are explicitly subjective.

 

I'll start, to help set up a format:

 

Want---

  • I like the idea of having largely uninhibited movement when swinging melee weapons. I continue to play warframe over other games because it's movement provides a great deal of self-expression, but I only really seem to get that with Primary/Secondary weapons. Not melee.

How it is, Now---

  • The current melee system has combos that override player movement with their own. And while the Aerial attacks do exist, their limitation of 1-per-jump leads them to being almost useless in terms of being an efficient weapon, especially on high-speed, low-individual-damage weapons. This is not good for me.
  • Slide attacks, while they do have a degree of movement override, are extremely predictable with it, allowing for players to incorporate it into their movement, rather than interrupt it. This is currently some of my only recourse for feeling mobile while melee-ing.

How it Could Be---

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Spoiler

 

DE has suggested making combos more uniform, so that combos that move you forward are activated by attempting to move forward, etc.

They have Also suggested Aerial Combos.

I feel this would be a satisfactory, but not ideal, solution.

It adequately touches up the parts where Warframe currently falls the flattest.

 

The Ideal, however, would be to completely remove melee's effects on movement, letting players directly control all movement they make, even when melee-ing.

...mostly.

I will concede that a means of making an attack feel more momentous is to make it feel slow-to-build, which is best achieved with slowed movement capabilities.

So for Heavy Weapons/Attacks, some degree of limitation would be acceptable.

But for lighter weapons, it would very much desired that they could be swung with as little effect on movement as Guns.

 

Overall, I am able to gladly take this offering, in return for my current means of satisfaction (Slide attacks) getting nerfed.

 

 

Spoiler


 

Want---

  • I like simple, reliable attacks more than fancy flourishes, for both aesthetic and mechanical-feel reasons. Their simplicity feels almost barbaric, which is how I play, while their reliability helps to make the act of landing them go as expected.

How it is, Now---

  • A significant portion of the Combos for melee weapons add extravagant flourishes, which looks quite nice on their own. But for gameplay feel, the majority of those flourishes do not meet my want.
  • Currently, I scratch this itch by using melee slide-attacks most frequently. They are always the same spinning animation, every time. Very simple, very reliable.

How it Could Be---

 

  Reveal hidden contents
Spoiler

 

DE is simplifying combos, making it easier to perform the effect desired at a given time.

This could theoretically provide a near-perfect solution, allowing me to decide for myself which Weapon types, Stances, or individual attacks are more flourish than they're worth, and allows me to avoid using them.

People who like the flourish can still have it, and people like myself can easily and effectively avoid it.

 

But much has yet to be shown in this regard, so further evaluation of this is in order.

It could very well be that there are no weapon attacks in the new system that are fitting of my want.

If such proves true, the solution would then most easily be to ask for some new stances.

 

 

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

 

Want---

  • A clearly defined stat trade-off system, for choosing weapons.
    • For example, a "Pick two" system. [Damage], [Swing-Speed], [Range]. Pick two, the third will be negative. Or pick one, and the other two receive only minor negatives.

How it is, Now---

  • Zaws give some degree of this, allowing Damage and Speed to be inversely proportional, and the same to Crit and Status. But this is both a Bland trade off system, with only 4 major choices (Fast-Crit, Damage-Crit, Fast-Status, Damage-status), but it also doesn't hold true for any of the rest of the melee system. Gram Prime, for example. has quite a bit of Damage, Crit, and Status, with it's lack of speed easily made up for. Dual Ether, on the other hand, has the reverse: High speed, and very little of anything else.

How it Could Be---

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents
Spoiler

 

DE is planning on Rebalancing weapons stats, but so far all we have seen is just straight buffs, with no significant stat-distribution patterns.

This very well could be the solution, but it could also be a problem.

If it is the solution, Amazing! meaningful weapon choices, where you pick something because it does what you like

 

🙂 .

If it isn't the solution, then it will set up a period of time where people are putting heavy investment in new melee weapons, meaning it'd be extremely difficult to then change the stats a second time without rendering quite a few people's efforts (And possibly platinum) wasted.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

... I want it released and working...

Edited by Uhkretor
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What I want: Auto Block to be gone or the option to be disabled.

How it is now: Can't throw out the Zenistar disk first try, some abilities get canceled mid cast, turning into a helicopter when I bullet jump when the game decides I can't handle a couple shots.

I remember in the dev stream, they showed some manual blocking options, however I'm curious to see when the phase rolls out with how it'll actually be.

Edited by --Brandt--
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if they want to gut a lot of the 'must have' mods, I'm alright with it.

As long as they don't make melee objectively worse. At that point it will just be another part of the game I won't touch.

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At this point, I mostly just want to sell the pile of melee weapons I've been hording in case they 'git gud'. 

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I want the ability to impale enemies on weapons and then proceed to hit other enemies with it while the impaled enemy screams in pain and the others scream in fear and anger. 

 

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I'd just like to see melee not need to rely on hysterically broken CO/BR/MS builds to be considered "good".

That is the problem with 90% of Warframe now, because the ceiling is so absurdly high the floor is left neglected because "endgame" is supposedly level 5000 nonsense enemies where the game stops even looking like Warframe anymore.

No matter how much people may hate "nerfs" nothing in Warframe will ever have any actual worth as long as the only thing that matters is killing faster than enemies can spawn.

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