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Zahnny

How will Zenistar be effected by Range Mod changes?

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First off, I made a trading mistake. And I don't seek a refund or compensation, this is my own fault and I'll live with that.

Just a day or two ago I came across a really amazing Zenistar range riven mod and scooped it up for 200p It wasn't until after I finished the deal and returned to my Liset and tested it out that I began to realise my mistake. Range is being changed with the next Mainline and possibly nerfing the stat, so I'm curious.

What's gonna happen to the Zenistar's range after the update? Currently I get about 9m with Primed Reach and with my riven, I'm getting about 14m (74.9% range riven) I'm concerned with the update the disc might end up with an extremely low range, maybe even lower than 9m. The only thing I can really ask is an exception to the Zenistar, but I don't think I'll find much luck in that.

How badly have I messed up, Tenno?

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Range will react to the changes like any other Melee weapon. Wait and see when phase 2 goes live.

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11 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

First off, I made a trading mistake. And I don't seek a refund or compensation, this is my own fault and I'll live with that.

Just a day or two ago I came across a really amazing Zenistar range riven mod and scooped it up for 200p It wasn't until after I finished the deal and returned to my Liset and tested it out that I began to realise my mistake. Range is being changed with the next Mainline and possibly nerfing the stat, so I'm curious.

What's gonna happen to the Zenistar's range after the update? Currently I get about 9m with Primed Reach and with my riven, I'm getting about 14m (74.9% range riven) I'm concerned with the update the disc might end up with an extremely low range, maybe even lower than 9m. The only thing I can really ask is an exception to the Zenistar, but I don't think I'll find much luck in that.

How badly have I messed up, Tenno?

As I understand it, range is going from a percentage increase to a flat bonus.  They haven't stated numbers yet, so there's no way to tell what the conversion is.  Except that they want to reduce the massive gap between daggers and pole-arm type weapons.

To use totally arbitrary, made up numbers:  Instead of adding +120% range, it might add +2m of range.  With the former, a dagger with a range of (what honestly feels like) less than a meter is barely going to get any benefit; +120% of nothing is still nothing.  And a staff weapon with a range of six meters would be hitting an absurd 14m or so.  With the new system, the dagger would get a huge benefit, increasing the range to "almost useful."  The staff would get +2m for a total of eight.  Still an increase, but no longer able to clear small rooms with a single sweep.

But we won't know for sure until the update goes live and people have actual numbers to work with.  I'd say the riven will still be useful, just maybe not quite so amazingly overpowered as before.  Hopefully you didn't pay thousands of platinum for just the range. 

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If they nerf everything meta then zenistar shouldnt be exception. Yes im salty cuz i dont own one i didint have an option while getting trashy akzema 

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11 minutes ago, CuBtheAntagonist said:

If they nerf everything meta then zenistar shouldnt be exception. Yes im salty cuz i dont own one i didint have an option while getting trashy akzema 

Is the Zenistar meta for anything?
No high-end content really needs a stationary damage source, it's just a way to give every warframe an Xm 45 seconds AoE. Like the Ferrox and its' 10m AoE alt fire... the Ferrox could really use a zenista-like timer though.

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19 minutes ago, Frame-5858 said:

Is the Zenistar meta for anything?
No high-end content really needs a stationary damage source, it's just a way to give every warframe an Xm 45 seconds AoE. Like the Ferrox and its' 10m AoE alt fire... the Ferrox could really use a zenista-like timer though.

Choke points really toss a disk where alot of enemies bottle neck though and you effectively made that way in free kills/dont worry about it 

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2 hours ago, Frame-5858 said:

Is the Zenistar meta for anything?
No high-end content really needs a stationary damage source, it's just a way to give every warframe an Xm 45 seconds AoE. Like the Ferrox and its' 10m AoE alt fire... the Ferrox could really use a zenista-like timer though.

Do you play this game or destiny 2? Because it's funny when people speak without having  any idea what they are talking about... The range of the zenistar is only 4 meter and it can't reach huge range because it's riven disposition it's 1. Now maybe you don't even own this weapon, but if this weapon had 5 stars, you can put it in the center of a map and destroy everything on every level(not the retard ones..), you need to use just 1 frame able to NAVIGATE projectiles weapons and it can ever get bonus from mutalist and volt shields... Thanks me later... I use it practically every day like a spin blade because it's fun.

Edited by bibmobello
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presumably, Zenidisk will have a similar treatment as other Melee Weapons. i wouldn't be surprised if double standards happens for Zenidisk, though.

2 hours ago, EmberStar said:

but no longer able to clear small rooms with a single sweep.

(not that we can do that now anyways, since Range already got nerfed so hard that we can have a hard time hitting Enemies if we're standing anywhere but inside an empty Warehouse since the tiniest piece of Terrain can block Melee from hitting Enemies regardless how far away they are)
reeeeeeeeeeeee was this "solution" even playtested

Edited by taiiat

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Just now, taiiat said:

(not that we can do that now anyways, since Range already got nerfed so hard that we can have a hard time hitting Enemies if we're standing anywhere but inside an empty Warehouse since the tiniest piece of Terrain can block Melee from hitting Enemies regardless how far away they are)

On the other hand, that tiny piece of terrain can save you from being knocked down by enemy AoE attacks as well. So I guess we win some, we lose more.

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Hopefully it gets better or stays the same.. Mine is full range to. Spent so much darn kuva getting a good roll. Hunted Doma's forever getting the spring loaded blade mod. This in my opinion is the best melee weapon for people who don't like to melee 😵. I hate the melee system in general. Its pretty cheesy for the most part and gets me dizzy.  The donut comes in so handy for all kinds of stuff and is hidden behind a time gate so its not easy to get . Since i got Zenistar I have pretty much abandoned all other weapons in melee slot. It is amazing. Never met a tenno who was not in love with the glowy donut and its enemy halting properties.  I have incorporated it into almost every warframe I play.   I am crossing my fingers not much changes with it. 

That said, Sometimes i throw other melee rivens to unlock their properties and forget to put my riven back on. Half the time i don't even notice. As long as I can still block doorways with it and protect stuff, Then I am fine. If they totally remove range effecting it though, They will have a small riot on their hands. 

Edited by bananacat89
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yeah when DE does things like this you gotta ask yourself why do I spend my money for disappointments? since $$ is the only language they pay attention to.

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if a weapon in the current system gets a large boost from range mods. then it will be nerfed going into the melee update, if its a short range weapon, then it will be buffed going into the melee update,

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1 hour ago, Renegade343 said:

On the other hand, that tiny piece of terrain can save you from being knocked down by enemy AoE attacks as well. So I guess we win some, we lose more.

as long as it's like, a Bombard and it's not a non-Projectile Attack, perhaps. :^)

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3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

as long as it's like, a Bombard and it's not a non-Projectile Attack, perhaps. :^)

Shockwave MOA stomp would also be blocked despite appearing to be climbing over the piece. Which is... weird, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

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45 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

Shockwave MOA stomp would also be blocked despite appearing to be climbing over the piece. Which is... weird, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

i think that's more due to that the Shockwave has no verticality? standing like one step up on a Ramp from it already nullifies it, idk.

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9 minutes ago, taiiat said:

i think that's more due to that the Shockwave has no verticality? standing like one step up on a Ramp from it already nullifies it, idk.

The wave still works with ramps somewhat. With, say, low guardrails, or anything protruding a bit from the ground, it just stops knocking things behind those things down, but the wave visual still goes on.

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When they made melee not go through walls anymore the smart zenistar users just launched the disc high into the air usually, as there it will hit everything typically.  No clue how the changes will affect zenistar disc though range wise, as we don't know what range mods will do just yet.  

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There seems to be a lot of people here who have no clue what the OP is specifically asking about. We're not talking about Zenistar's melee range as if you were swinging it around, we're talking about the disc. Lemme show you.

Zenistar has a special effect which allows you to charge attack and fling out a disc that shoots out elemental damage in a circle around the disc. The size of this circle of damage is based on weapon range, and the default diameter is a measly 6m. Example:

Here's an example of that same disc, this time with some range mods:

While the damage is nothing to write home about, when built properly with the right elements and flung into the sky where it can make line-of-sight with every enemy, it's pretty proficient with sub lvl 100 enemies:


And finally, if you're having trouble understanding what 22m looks like in-game, this is a screenshots from last year, before they toned down the disc's fx. The range it covers in-game today is the same, DE just made the disc more transparent. And, I'd say, that change was warranted:
R2flfHV.jpg


While the Zenistar isn't known for its massive damage against high level enemies, it is certainly useful, and any Zenistar lover will be able to show you why in a variety of missions. You can use it as shown to lock down an entire section of a tile or room, and I'm sure some of you have seen Zenistars blanketing a section of a mobile defense point, a defense mission cryopod, a survival camping spot, etc. Here's some ways I use Zenistar, and I've seen many other Zenistar users do the same:

  1. Zenistar is great for proccing status and CCing enemies when playing stationary mission types, like Survival, Defense, Mobile Defense, Defection, Disruption, even Sabotage or some Assassinations (I'm looking at you, lvl 100 PhysEnhance Ruk).
  2. Chain-gas procs on mid-level enemies is powerful with all those Toxin DoTs stacking, and the proc speed can be increased by adding attack speed to your build, causing your DPS to rise and rise.
  3. Radiation or Blast procs will ensure anyone who walks into the Zenistar's radius won't be walking out as well, concentrating enemies into a single area; Very helpful for Survivals when playing alongside Nekros, Khora or Hydroid.
  4. As I showed above, against sub-100 enemies, most any well built Zenistar can handle just about any enemy unfortunate enough to walk into it.
  5. The disc also ticks away at Nullifier shields without being "nullified" and it can also damage Arbitration drones, no matter how many massive enemy units are standing between you and the drone...which is a big reason why we also love weapons like Catchmoon, Plasmor & the Fulmin, they make poor enemy pathing AI and annoying/unpredictable drone movement trivial. But that's a discussion for another time and place.

Zenistar has a lot of value and can be used in a lot of different situations, if built properly. And the main stat Zenistar builds rely on is Range...hence this thread.

What we Zenistar lovers are unclear about is how the upcoming changes to the way Range is applied to weapons will impact weapons with special abilities like the Zenistar, Sancti Magistar (heals in a radius when charged), the Vaykor Sydon (Radial Blinds in a radius when enough attacks are blocked & stored), and maybe others I'm forgetting. All of these weapons have special abilities whose radii are based on the current range stat and how it currently functions.

I was hoping we'd find out if the upcoming changes to range will negatively, positively, or not impact these weapons’ special effects at all during the most recent Prime Time, but Reb & Megan had no clue and didn’t try them out. I worry that means it's still undecided, or the news is not good, and these weapons with their niche usefulness & usage will be relegated to mediocre usability...or even worse, they weren’t planning on touching them and they’re broken anyway, as we saw with the entirety of the Sword & Shield and Gunblade classes of weapons, where auto-blocking simply stopped you from charge attacking, and no dedicated blocking key rendered several mods and builds broken.

I’d prefer for my favourite and well-earned login reward weapon not to be relegated to that same fate. I love my Zenistar, and many others love theirs too. It’s a weird niche weapon that’s as far away from “meta” builds as you can get, and any excuse to stay away from Maiming Strike builds is a welcome one for me. Don’t take away one of my favorite weapon mechanics, please.

So now that you (and hopefully DE) understands what we're looking for in terms of clarification, hopefully we can get some before the update hits. And if there are no changes planned but things change anyway, unintended-like, we can use the information above to help display the expected behavior Zenistar, Sancti Magistar & Vaykor Sydon users would like returned.
 

Edited by MonsieuRoberts
Formatting & proper gif embeds
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Naturally, I was referring to the disk as using zenistar as a melee weapon is not why you equip it in your melee slot if you use it just as a melee weapon pick any other heavy blade and you'll see much better results.  

On primetime they said they didn't know what was happening with zenistar disk.  UI information didn't have disk info either.  Seems likely it's untouched disk wise.  They did show it's new status chance being 30% at base though, which is nice to proc more status effects and I certainly hope CO still affects disk damage as they made that change some months ago.  

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3 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Naturally, I was referring to the disk as using zenistar as a melee weapon is not why you equip it in your melee slot if you use it just as a melee weapon pick any other heavy blade and you'll see much better results.  

On primetime they said they didn't know what was happening with zenistar disk.  UI information didn't have disk info either.  Seems likely it's untouched disk wise.  They did show it's new status chance being 30% at base though, which is nice to proc more status effects and I certainly hope CO still affects disk damage as they made that change some months ago.  

I certainly wasn't directing that first line at you. 😛

The status buff is indeed nice! But there are still so many unknowns. We don't even know if the disc will have its own damage stat page, for example; Wouldn't make much sense for our disc to deal IPS damage, as the "Zenistick" now seems to do. Perhaps they have more plans for the Zenistar, decoupling disc from stick in terms of stats and damage.

Who can say. I guess we'll just have to wait.

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Just used my Zenistar with a range riven today in arbitrations with Ivara and got 70% of the kills. I love my zenistar.

Any substantial nerf to zenistar's disc range capabilities and I'll simply stop using it, unless the handheld part of it gets substantially buffed and becomes meta.

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On 2019-10-21 at 3:38 PM, bibmobello said:

Do you play this game or destiny 2? Because it's funny when people speak without having  any idea what they are talking about... The range of the zenistar is only 4 meter and it can't reach huge range because it's riven disposition it's 1. Now maybe you don't even own this weapon, but if this weapon had 5 stars, you can put it in the center of a map and destroy everything on every level(not the retard ones..), you need to use just 1 frame able to NAVIGATE projectiles weapons and it can ever get bonus from mutalist and volt shields... Thanks me later... I use it practically every day like a spin blade because it's fun.

I have no idea what game you're playing but it isn't warframe and the zenistar does batS#&$ damage on stealth characters.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

I have no idea what game you're playing but it isn't warframe and the zenistar does batS#&$ damage on stealth characters.

 

 

Are you replying to me to show your video or what? i already knew that, i wrote i use it everyday.

Edited by bibmobello

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No you wrote the riven is garbage, which is kind of droll considering how well the weapon performs without a riven, much less with one.

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