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Mortaria

Nightwave lesson learned

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1 hour ago, Mortaria said:

Since we get the rewards from season 1 in intermission 2 now by basically doing nothing.

“Basically nothing” as if you don’t still have to spend weeks completing challenges to get to rank 30, just the same as when season 1 was out.

And don’t give me that “it’s easier now than it was before” crap. Season 1 was needlessly grindy. That’s why they changed it. Devs are allowed to change their game for the betterment of their players.

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If intermission were to have new items might as well drop a new series.Choosing between duplicates and resources would be ideal but this is good also(besides the length).Plus 1 umbra forma more, 1 WF slot, 2 weapon slots, 1 new decoration, ducats and kuva.I don't see the problem, this is one of the rare occasions DE gets something right(for the most part).

Edited by DeathDweller
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Oh wow something that wasn't actually exclusive and became easier to obtain over time?

Aw man it's almost like we've seen this before with like iunno literally every single reward we've ever had.

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5 minutes ago, trst said:

Oh wow something that wasn't actually exclusive and became easier to obtain over time?

Aw man it's almost like we've seen this before with like iunno literally every single reward we've ever had.

While that's true majority of them you didn't have to waste like couple of months to obtain them so sort of understand it.

But then again Nightwave isn't a great system to begin with anyway.

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I feel this is a clash between what you expect nightwave to be versus what the devs wanted it to be initislly. Rewards were never exclusive, they said so themselves and nightwave is something they didnt want people to intentionally grind for outside of maybe elite challenges. All the changes they made to it have been in service of making it easier to do. Things becoming easier is just an inevitability, its happened so many times through warframes life that if you just have to expect it.

Lastly, you know nightwave season 1 came out almost 8 months ago right? For the average person they hit rank 30 in about... 1.5 months lets say. You had almost 6 months where the stuff you got was completely unavailable to everyone else. If there was anything youd actually have wanted to use, you wouldnt have to wait 7 more months (adding time it takes to hit 30 again) to get it. Thats a long wait if you think you might want to get the items next time around.

Might not be exclusive but you can bet you wont see this stuff show up again for a long time unless they decide to do something else with them. To me thats exclusive enough to not want to miss some of the stuff i might want to use later.

Edited by Annnoth
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

While that's true majority of them you didn't have to waste like couple of months to obtain them so sort of understand it.

But then again Nightwave isn't a great system to begin with anyway.

You say "waste" as if the exclusives were the only rewards and that anyone who got them hasn't had access to them the entire time up until they're obtainable from this intermission.

Which again is that exact same situation as every other reward this game has had.

Also Nightwave isn't perfect but it sure is a Hek of a lot better than Alerts were.

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1 minute ago, trst said:

Also Nightwave isn't perfect but it sure is a Hek of a lot better than Alerts were.

See, I miss the dynamic nature of the old alerts, but...the fact they were so short-sighted, just...do a mission, done...do a mission, done...it was kinda flat. Nightwave may need more added to it, I can get behind that. And it could use a ton of tweaking in terms of rewards. But ultimately, it's a better system.

Plus, we have Invasions, which are basically the same as Alerts were, just with a more narrow reward pool and you have to do three missions instead of just one. I wish they would expand the reward pool for Invasions to include maybe credits, materials, blueprints, whatever else, let's discuss. Invasions, for me, fill that void of having dynamic missions pop up anyways. I don't miss Alerts that much as a result.

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15 minutes ago, trst said:

You say "waste" as if the exclusives were the only rewards and that anyone who got them hasn't had access to them the entire time up until they're obtainable from this intermission.

Which again is that exact same situation as every other reward this game has had.

Also Nightwave isn't perfect but it sure is a Hek of a lot better than Alerts were.

No I say waste because I consider the format of Nightwave that you have to spend couple of months to get a few useful rewards out of it wasteful because of how much time you have to waste on it.

Knew right from the start that something like this would happen and I don't really care, if anything it gives me reason not to touch Nightwave.

No it most certainly isn't perfect, Alerts weren't great either but that doesn't excuse one bad system for another. We need something better than both.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

No I say waste because I consider the format of Nightwave that you have to spend couple of months to get a few useful rewards out of it wasteful because of how much time you have to waste on it.

Knew right from the start that something like this would happen and I don't really care, if anything it gives me reason not to touch Nightwave.

No it most certainly isn't perfect, Alerts weren't great either but that doesn't excuse one bad system for another. We need something better than both.

It's only months if one considers time waiting and time spent off the game as effort put towards said rewards.

To hit rank 30, even for season one, was a few hours a week. More for those who're newer to the game and less for those who've finished most of the game's content. But now with the changes we've been getting since then it's even less of a time investment that that. Anyone who has the ability to complete acts and knows to stock items when necessary (ayatans and forma) can likely hit 30 with a few hours a month now.

And yes anyone who has played for a few updates or has done any research into the game's past should know this is how things go. Things change and improve that either directly or indirectly make it easier to earn past rewards and nothing has remained exclusive outside of the Founder items and most event emblems.

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3 hours ago, Mortaria said:

Just don't pay any effort into nightwave. Since we get the rewards from season 1 in intermission 2 now by basically doing nothing.

Well I guess I take the free loot if I complete a task here and there by accident, but I won't actively farm NW again. No need to do so when nothing is exclusive.

Don't get me wrong. This is not a hate-post. I don't hate on Nightwave in any way. I just think it's not worth being actively played.

Free potatoes and slots have worth to most players.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Eluminary:

It's an intermission for one thing and there are some unique decorations.

 

Having the stuff come back in intermissions helps people who missed it the first time.  Also there is umbra forma.

 

Lastly I'll say nightwave replaced alerts.  You can get everything from the old alerts, easier now than ever and there is extra stuff... People complain to much.

The issue is that it's literally 1 reward (the forma) by going through 30 ranks of stuff I already have and or don't need (especially duplicate mods that have no value or duplicate cosmetics)

From a veteran perspective this intermission actually doesn't exist.

I'm not forcing myself through 10 weeks and hours on end just to hold worthless duplicates and the forma in my hand.

First time I say no.

Edited by (XB1)TyeGoo
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1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

When in fact people that do intermission 2 will put in the same 30 ranks to achieve those same things that we got during S1.

Why is suddenly that amount of same time worth less now than it was during S1?

This is better because this Intermission has the top tier exclusives from two seasons, S1 and Intermission 1.

If I had skipped both first nightwaves, of course I'd be happy to get 2 for 1.

But I did both S1 and I1 so this one has a ton of useless stuff. So DE is kinda giving a signal that it's not worth playing if you did previous seasons... which would be fine if that was all it was and I could just ignore it. However, DE also put an umbra forma at rank 29.

 

Finally, I know people will rush in to to tell me DE isn't forcing me to play, no worries, I'm not doing this NW. Mostly because I also know that DE will find a way to introduce umbra formas later into the game that completely invalidates grinding through NW seasons like this one for it.

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To all the people that are applauding they can now earn the stuff they missed on S1 and I1 at the expense of those who grinded it back then ; wait until you are in the same position we are today, forced to grind through useless levels and "rewards" that don't stack and join the hate train.

It is now the right time to change this ugly intermission 2 and put all the repeats to the store, so those who missed it can PAY with creds for them, those who earned it should have something valuable for their time too, like a big bunch of credits, consumables, formas of all kind etc.

It's an insult to have those dead rewards, and it has to be fixed ASAP.

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3 hours ago, Mortaria said:

Just don't pay any effort into nightwave.

I don't disagree.

There are some players who only get to catch it near the end,
and some players who don't have beans for spare time.
I think it's scaled to at least be somewhat accessible to them.
In that respect, the fact that we can beat it so easy is one part
compliment and another part luxury.

Sure it's easy, but there also has to be goals accessible to the
new comers that don't feel like their being kept in the kiddy pool.
That might be far more insulting and unappealing to them, then
us beating content way too easy, when we've already got all the
tools to do that.

There are more challenging ones that not everyone will be able to
complete.. If you start the game on the same day 1 as nightwave,
you might not make it to Sorties if you work 2 jobs, or have kids..
that kinda stuff.

You figure there are people who look at killing level 400s in this
game as, "Too Easy," because the have the tools, methods, and
understanding necessary to trivialize those situations. Many of us
also spend more than enough time in the Wikia looking up every
last way to find an edge, so it's no surprise that a number of folks
find things too simple.

Nightwave is also relatively new, and may see more rebalance in
the future after they've finished their current development cycle,
and gotten plenty of usage data to help refine the process.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Mortaria:

Just don't pay any effort into nightwave. Since we get the rewards from season 1 in intermission 2 now by basically doing nothing.

Well I guess I take the free loot if I complete a task here and there by accident, but I won't actively farm NW again. No need to do so when nothing is exclusive.

Don't get me wrong. This is not a hate-post. I don't hate on Nightwave in any way. I just think it's not worth being actively played.

You say this but later you claim this thread was never about exclusivity and rewards. I cant follow the logic there. Also to get the rewards from season 1 you still need to reach rank 30. The nightwave grind got better overall but that's just how the first season should have been. I could understand being annoyed by the rank ups being basically nothing if you already have the thing but claiming you dont have to do anything to get the rewards is just false.

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15 minutes ago, iGnome21 said:

It's an insult to have those dead rewards, and it has to be fixed ASAP.

>umbral forma
>arcane energize
>you can buy kuva from now on
>free rewards for playing the game
>being upset others now get the chance to earn rewards they missed

 

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im honestly thankful when I don’t need any of the rewards from Nightwave. I’m in it for kuva and potatoes though. 
 

It’s fun to do when you want the rewards, but I’m glad to do other things when I don’t need them.

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55 minutes ago, wargthewarg said:

This is better because this Intermission has the top tier exclusives from two seasons, S1 and Intermission 1.

If I had skipped both first nightwaves, of course I'd be happy to get 2 for 1.

But I did both S1 and I1 so this one has a ton of useless stuff. So DE is kinda giving a signal that it's not worth playing if you did previous seasons... which would be fine if that was all it was and I could just ignore it. However, DE also put an umbra forma at rank 29.

 

Finally, I know people will rush in to to tell me DE isn't forcing me to play, no worries, I'm not doing this NW. Mostly because I also know that DE will find a way to introduce umbra formas later into the game that completely invalidates grinding through NW seasons like this one for it.

Those arent top tier exlusives, they werent even intended as exlusives to begin with. Everyone and their grandmother knew they'd end up available elsewhere from the start of S1. The top tier rewards from seasons are umbra forma and last I checked there is no limit on owning more than one of those. So the top tier reward is still there available to get for everyone that has already done S1.

And your "stance" or "determination" is all over the place. First you complain about Umbra Forma kinda "forcing" you to do regular NW, or atleast it looks like that is what you complain about with the "However DE also put an umbra forma at rank 29." comment. Then all of a sudden in your next sentence you are suddenly OK with skipping intermission? The intermission that also has an umbra forma... Wut? All this because you happen to get a few dupes along the progress path towards the umbra?

Overreacting class 101.

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I don't mind people getting another shot at the rewards at all but it begs the question, why have this system in the first place? Why not just ditch the time constraints so people can burn through all the challenges when they drop if they want and then go back into the backlog for the previous ones at their leisure or something? Why not ditch the time element if you're just going to rerelease them again so soon? Meh. Would have taken baro giving players access to them for ducats or credits if it meant getting a longer break from nightwave. As it is now, it's also taking away slots for new rewards they could have tucked in there, oh well. 

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1 hour ago, iGnome21 said:

To all the returds that are applauding they can now earn the stuff they missed on S1 and I1 at the expense of those who grinded it back then ; wait until you are in the same position we are today, forced to grind through useless levels and "rewards" that don't stack and join the hate train.

It is now the right time to change this ugly intermission 2 and put all the repeats to the store, so those who missed it can PAY with creds for them, those who earned it should have something valuable for their time too, like a big bunch of credits, consumables, formas of all kind etc.

It's an insult to have those dead rewards, and it has to be fixed ASAP.

Except that the majority of us that support this intermission setup has already gone through that "grind" (which is ground in past tense and not grinded. Also do you seriously find 2 hours per week to be a grind?) three times. It is better they put these things behind intermissions than dedicating a full season to another pass of S1 later down the line.

It is very likely that the future intermissions will follow the same line. I3 will include I1 and S2 rewards so people can catch up on the missed rewards and those of us that have done them already will get more formas, arcanes and so on. 

Do you realize how silly it sounds to claim this is something that needs to be fixed asap? You would look at a few more lousy nightwave credits instead of nothing if they changed those few non-stacking rewards in between. The spots they are placed at are already just taking up space that would otherwise be NW credits, so asking for forma and other things just wouldnt happen either way.

Petty people are petty.

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Are people really forgetting that they increased the value of standing each challenge gives AND introduced the catch up mechanics?

Those didn't exist during WoS6. People actually couldn't get to the rank 30 rewards if they missed too many elite missions (which also had some challenges that the community didn't accept such as group play and long run missions).

It's not the same grind. Stop trying to use an argument that's not true to justify discarding other people's opinions.

The core problem wasn't even the exclusivity of the comestics, it was the fact that they are now virtually empty ranks for those who earned them previously during WoS6, gated behind less grind/standing (read per).

People missed the point of the thread.

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1 hour ago, starpursuer said:

Are people really forgetting that they increased the value of standing each challenge gives AND introduced the catch up mechanics?

Those didn't exist during WoS6. People actually couldn't get to the rank 30 rewards if they missed too many elite missions (which also had some challenges that the community didn't accept such as group play and long run missions).

It's not the same grind. Stop trying to use an argument that's not true to justify discarding other people's opinions.

The core problem wasn't even the exclusivity of the comestics, it was the fact that they are now virtually empty ranks for those who earned them previously during WoS6, gated behind less grind/standing (read per).

People missed the point of the thread.

I agree that DE should address this. Even if all you get is more Cred, it's better than literally nothing.

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