Nightwave lesson learned

[Morthal]

Say no to Battle Pass FOMO.
Nightwave didn't replace Alerts, they were just removed. Nightwave is a Battle Pass abomination that's sole objective is player retention. 

 

[FrostDragoon]

37 minutes ago, Morthal said:

Say no to Battle Pass FOMO.
Nightwave didn't replace Alerts, they were just removed. Nightwave is a Battle Pass abomination that's sole objective is player retention. 

 

It's not a Battle Pass in any sense. You don't have to pay for it. You're right that it's not the same as Alerts, though, because Alerts were f**king terrible by comparison!

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Actually, yeah, I really don’t want to have to slog it again, but there it is, all that delicious Kuva and aura and Umbra Forma and I B like 😑.

Part of me tells me I’ll need all of it for my new Kuva-corrupted Frenemy-Besty and the New War.

So it’s become a game of  “How do I passively include these challenges and still enjoy the diminishing freedoms (choice) that made this game awesome?”

You wait for a fresh round of challenges, stack as many as you can into as few missions as possible, do them quickly (usually only a couple hours), and don't worry about it until 4 or 5 days later when you finish off the dailies. There's still a ton of freedom about what you play. You're not obligated to do anything. If you can't see that, take 3 days off from the game. Don't even log in. Come back and see how different it actually feels. For me, it either makes me feel like there's a ton to do or that I should take a break. It varies each time I do this.

[Morthal]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

It's not a Battle Pass in any sense. You don't have to pay for it. You're right that it's not the same as Alerts, though, because Alerts were f**king terrible by comparison!

Who said anything about having to pay for Battle Pass? I'm not paying a cent to Bungie and still climbing their version of Nightwave ( also don't have to go out of my way to grind boring mission types)
Alerts didn't hurt me, their lack of a presence doesn't either though >_<
Either way, Alerts were assassinated, Nightwave didn't replace them in any sense. Just as ESO and Arbitration didn't replace raids...

[FrostDragoon]

3 minutes ago, Morthal said:

Who said anything about having to pay for Battle Pass? I'm not paying a cent to Bungie and still climbing their version of Nightwave ( also don't have to go out of my way to grind boring mission types)
Alerts didn't hurt me, their lack of a presence doesn't either though >_<
Either way, Alerts were assassinated, Nightwave didn't replace them in any sense. Just as ESO and Arbitration didn't replace raids...

Make false comparisons if you want, but the devs explicitly stated that Nightwave was intended to be the Alert overhaul, and it is. ESO/Arbi had nothing to do with raids--of which there were only two and were extremely binary: you either knew them or not--was never about challenge. Aside from that, I haven't seen anyone else talking about them as if they had anything to do with raiding, so it seems more like you're trying to put words into people's mouths as a form of straw man. Not very convincing.

[Graavarg]

8 hours ago, IntheCoconut said:

Seems like a perfectly rational idea. If you don't want anything from it, don't do it! And those who want stuff from it, can. Simple enough.

Very wise. And very true. And "rational" really is the key word.

However, this might have more to do with not wanting other players to get the "exclusive" stuff you already got your hands on, and that is something quite different.

[Eternal-Knight]

Although I understand why bringing old rewards back and extending to 30 which possibly is buying more time for further major updates, I'm deeply despirited DE make me feel what a waste of time spent on previous Nightwaves and those old rewards shouldn't be brought back in this way.  

In my thought, to keep user viscosity, Nightwave cosmetic rewards that doesn't effect players' mission experience should be new, unique and shouldn't be brought back in at least one year which make players feel worth thier time and effort.  

Once being brought back, it should not be in this way like now that compromises old players' experience who have already spent months to earn them. For those who missed them I think it's fair enough to obtain them in a different way, for example buying with Creds in Nightwave Creds Store(let player choose to buy things that make them stronger or things that make them fancy, after all cosmetic rewards as same as some elite missons of Nightwave like DE used to say, are not for very new beginners).

[Morthal]

20 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Make false comparisons if you want, but the devs explicitly stated that Nightwave was intended to be the Alert overhaul, and it is. ESO/Arbi had nothing to do with raids--of which there were only two and were extremely binary: you either knew them or not--was never about challenge. Aside from that, I haven't seen anyone else talking about them as if they had anything to do with raiding, so it seems more like you're trying to put words into people's mouths as a form of straw man. Not very convincing.

That comparison was made by others, not me. I've already stated, despite what DE wants people to believe. Nightwave isn't comparable to Alerts, they're completely different from one another. Hence, not replaced, just removed. Nightwave is a player retention designed, Theme based BATTLE PASS 😄

Now that we cleared that up, perhaps others can learn a lesson too?

[FrostDragoon]

16 minutes ago, Morthal said:

That comparison was made by others, not me. I've already stated, despite what DE wants people to believe. Nightwave isn't comparable to Alerts, they're completely different from one another. Hence, not replaced, just removed. Nightwave is a player retention designed, Theme based BATTLE PASS 😄

Now that we cleared that up, perhaps others can learn a lesson too?

Keep calling it things that it isn't if you want. You're only making a fool of yourself. Also, player retention is a good thing, so I'm not sure what your complaint really is.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

8 hours ago, Diavoros said:

Muh exclusivity reeeee, everything must be limited time only or it isn't worth grinding for it reeeee!
Are the rewards for intermission rather wack? For those who did Series 1 and first Intermission, sure, but for players who were absent during those, it's nice that they can obtain the goodies without having to pay platinum for them. By OP's logic it isn't worth doing any limited-time events either since eventually, the items will be made available again through Baro or such (even when that can take a year or so to happen) so why bother getting them the first time! there is no sense of self-accomplishment for getting a exclusive item that nobody who didn't grind could get...if it's made available again.

I ground through Nightwave 1 because, given Warframe's past with "non-exclusives", I wasn't sure when those items would ever return. We saw this with (until recently) the Zylok, which was unobtainable until they added it to Baro's inventory, and the Mutualists Incursions rewards. It wasn't about getting an item and keeping it exclusive, Warframes own past behaviour had a pretty major role in this fear of missing out.

Doing Nightwave isn't really worth it anyway, since the cosmetics are things you'll wear few times, and then never again. Umbra forma was a good motivator, but now it seems NW is just going to be a steady source of them, rather than a rare reward.

[FrostDragoon]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Doing Nightwave isn't really worth it anyway, since the cosmetics are things you'll wear few times, and then never again. Umbra forma was a good motivator, but now it seems NW is just going to be a steady source of them, rather than a rare reward.

"Steady sources of them" twice a year? lol

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

4 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

"Steady sources of them" twice a year? lol

We really only have 6(?) Umbral mods, and only a few frames actually benefit from having all of them equipped. And I think these Nightwave seasons will be around 3 times a year.

[FrostDragoon]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

We really only have 6(?) Umbral mods, and only a few frames actually benefit from having all of them equipped. And I think these Nightwave seasons will be around 3 times a year.

The problem I have is that because it's so scarce, I can't actually justify putting them on anything. Most things that I would want them on need at least 2 to really benefit.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

1 minute ago, FrostDragoon said:

The problem I have is that because it's so scarce, I can't actually justify putting them on anything. Most things that I would want them on need at least 2 to really benefit.

Well, if they are working on more Umbral frames, chances are, Umbral formas will become more obtainable. I wouldn't be surprised if they added them as reward for the New War, similar to how the War Within gives you a riven. Of course, it could take another three years before we see Umbral Mag or Volt.

[FrostDragoon]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

Well, if they are working on more Umbral frames, chances are, Umbral formas will become more obtainable. I wouldn't be surprised if they added them as reward for the New War, similar to how the War Within gives you a riven. Of course, it could take another three years before we see Umbral Mag or Volt.

I don't want Umbral versions of everything, but I would like a little more availability of the forma. Assuming they never introduced another Umbral frame/weapon into the game, I'd want about 20 of that forma in total for the frames I want to put it on.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

2 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

I don't want Umbral versions of everything, but I would like a little more availability of the forma. Assuming they never introduced another Umbral frame/weapon into the game, I'd want about 20 of that forma in total for the frames I want to put it on.

Given Warframe's "everything will be accessible" mantra, it's highly likely they'll add some way to craft more of them. When they do this however, is an entirely different issue... I want more Umbral frames, because they'd probably bring another set of mods/weapons with them. Of course, then the scarcity of forma does become an issue.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

9 hours ago, Prowombat said:

Well I for one dont mind because I started a few weeks ago so all of the rewards are new for me.

And you, my friend, are the reason why DE is smarter and better than the community. Cycling the rewards for those who are beginning their journey of this gigantic game makes perfect sense.

[AzureTerra]

The lesson learned should be: Optional reward track is optional, no-one but yourself is forcing you do ever do any of it. The stuff was always going to come back at some point, its good for the people who for what ever reason couldn't do it the first time and at least for them its not tied to the whims of baro.

[FrostDragoon]

1 minute ago, Graavarg said:

Well, actually that depends on from which position you are calling them out. If you see them as a sort of "opposition" (to your own ideas), that really reflects back on you.

Trolls are quite different, they get a kick from stirring up trouble and messing with others, but generally doesn't have strong views themselves (they can identify with a group and attack "others", but rational thought is not their forte). "Black Knights" would be those that are driven by the idea that they are right and know better than DE, who (of course) has it wrong (concerning whatever the current case is). They present long arguments "proving" why this is, though often the arguments are built on preconditions, not rational and impartial analysis of facts. Like all those riven traders now complaining how "nerfing" rivens is destroying the game (when the opposite actually is true, and rivens for meta builds should be "destroyed" for the game's sake). And if you pick their reasoning apart, you will be branded a "White Knight".

Many that in their own opinion present rational reasoning does so with an egoistic/egotistic starting point, that could be generalized as "what I  personally want" or "what I personally feel". They are quite blind to the fact that Warframe is a game played by millions of players, and such arguments should be made based on a significant part of the player base instead of on your own feelings and wants. That is, if you really want to have a rational discussion and be believable, and not just complain that DE isn't doing what you would want them to do. And if that really is what your are doing, calling out the game as "sh*t" and DE as "idiots" just because of egoistical/egotistical reasons and personal feelings, well ...

[and just for the record, that is a general "you", not you you]

It looks to me like you confuse cause and effect. The ones you're describing as Black Knights typically aren't "anti-DE" about everything--just particular topics, which means they are of a strong opinion on that topic rather than DE specifically. The problem is that White Knights and fanboiz actually do come out against those people, so calling them such doesn't mean you're any kind of "Black Knight" either. The bigger issue isn't what label you want to throw around, though, but that this type of ad hominem does nothing to serve anyone. It only takes topics off track (a common tactic of White Knights, ironically) and prevents people from discussing the issue properly.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

People expect the universe on a silver platter from DE, I wouldn't read too much into it myself.  If they have the reward already, they'll complain about getting duplicates of it.  If they don't have it they'll love DE for bringing it back (hint: the question about will wolf armor set return was asked on many, many devstreams.  DE said they were planning on making it obtainable again.  Now they do so and what do people do?  Complain about it.)  

Steady supply of umbra forma my ass.  This one that we can currently get in intermission is the 3rd one we will have gotten in over 8 months.  We have over 40 frames.  See how the demand greatly outstrips the supply there?  Only a few frames can really benefit from a full set of umbra mods or 2 umbra mods?  That's preaching to the choir, we all want to be able to put umbral intensify on every frame that could use strength as it is a better intensify having 14% more strength with just it equipped and having it scale upwards off set bonus/that thing that encourages you to use more then just one umbral mod if you can.  

People want exclusive rewards in game?  We have those.  See that last leaderboard event and how it awarded spectra and glaxion vandal?  Now tell me where you can get those currently.  I'm waiting.  

[Morthal]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Keep calling it things that it isn't if you want. You're only making a fool of yourself. Also, player retention is a good thing, so I'm not sure what your complaint really is.

You seem to be the only one complaining about the lesson here and aren't really comprehending the point of this topic. Retention is good!....when there's fun, creative and rewarding content. Placing poopy rewards behind tired missions and time gating the whole mess 😞 Unsuccessful, FOMO Battle Pass = Nightwave. 

[FrostDragoon]

14 minutes ago, Morthal said:

You seem to be the only one complaining about the lesson here and aren't really comprehending the point of this topic. Retention is good!....when there's fun, creative and rewarding content. Placing poopy rewards behind tired missions and time gating the whole mess 😞 Unsuccessful, FOMO Battle Pass = Nightwave. 

How is it "unsuccessful" when it obviously works?

Battle Pass means something different than what you think it means, so again... Keep calling NW something it's not. You're not convincing anyone.