we need a level cap for enemies.

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrot]

Can we have warframes cap at level 100 instead?

[maddragonmaster]

On 2019-10-30 at 2:46 AM, Teljaxx said:

Infinite level scaling has been a crutch that DE has been leaning on way too much to cover the complete lack of balance and rampant powercreep this game has. But, you can't really balance an infinite scale, and you can't have an endgame if there is no end. So, ideally, a strict level cap is exactly what this game needs. But practically, its not really feasible anymore. They would have to rework pretty much the entire game to make it work, which would take way too long. If they had actually bothered to do something like this from the start, and stuck to it, it would have been great. But now its too late.

Realistically, I think the best thing they could do is to redo the level scaling throughout most of the game. The level range of the star chart is one of the many old parts of the game desperately in need of an update. Currently, it only goes from level 1 to about level 40. This means you can outlevel the biggest chunk of content in the game very quickly. If they redid the scale, and bumped the max up to level 100 or so, it would be really help. And you wouldn't have to spend hours in an endless mission just to fight properly leveled enemies anymore.

never said the idea was easy. its just the simplest thing to do. but if they can just balance the game more around 100 levels or so then thats fine too. i just would prefer that it would be gone because its an unneeded variable. its to me a bandaid that needs ripped off because of the fact that some of the players gripe about something that the developers reworked when the developers catch wind of a overused method that the players are using. just take a look at the melee 3.0, they trying to make all of melee useful. but all the players are just crying over the fact that they can't helicopter past level 150 anymore. and this is the warframe community that constantly has a out cry for challenging content? really? are we sure this community actually wants to work up a sweat or do they just want it because they think it sounds cool and they are mad because they can't have it?

as for the past where someone claims it was hard before, i would like to make the rebuttal of was it actually challenging content or was the game less ironed out in the past because they didn't know what to do. thus they believed it was harder because they had to fight the literal game to do it. honestly i couldn't care less what it was like in the past, as long as the future is promising.

Edited October 31, 2019 by maddragonmaster

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Technically it's already capped.  DE doesn't balance around content past a certain level.  Community goal post shifts around though.  I remember when level 100 enemies were "the thing" and now it's "150" enemies that's the standard for judging viability even though no piece of content takes you near that level.

[PR1D3]

On 2019-10-30 at 2:46 AM, Teljaxx said:

Infinite level scaling has been a crutch that DE has been leaning on way too much to cover the complete lack of balance and rampant powercreep this game has. But, you can't really balance an infinite scale, and you can't have an endgame if there is no end. So, ideally, a strict level cap is exactly what this game needs. But practically, its not really feasible anymore. They would have to rework pretty much the entire game to make it work, which would take way too long. If they had actually bothered to do something like this from the start, and stuck to it, it would have been great. But now its too late.

Realistically, I think the best thing they could do is to redo the level scaling throughout most of the game. The level range of the star chart is one of the many old parts of the game desperately in need of an update. Currently, it only goes from level 1 to about level 40. This means you can outlevel the biggest chunk of content in the game very quickly. If they redid the scale, and bumped the max up to level 100 or so, it would be really help. And you wouldn't have to spend hours in an endless mission just to fight properly leveled enemies anymore.

I agree. In fact one of the things some people have been asking for was a sort of mode where you have current star chart but swap over to one with appropriately leveled enemies for the vets. I had a few ideas for this that would be long to explain but I had envisioned that a vet star chart would have few nodes (as we don't need repeats, we just need the core modes on nodes) with appropriate level enemies, and better drops. There's a bunch of stuff I would add on, for example, stuff like Kuva Floods would be the standard. If you spend the effort to get that strong to fight butt #*!%ing strong enemies like that we should get better drops like that. You fight the scrubs you get scrub drops.

On 2019-10-30 at 2:53 AM, Marvaz said:

I'm always confused by that statement evey time I see it, everywhere I go check some warframe content, being youtube, reddit, forums it's always the same, but when I get into a mission that gets just a tiny bit difficult most of the people just ragequit or extract, leaving me no choice but to extract too due to the fear of losing my S#&$ to a host migration.

I will say that I can stay in a mission for an hour+ with people that actually know what they are doing maybe once every 10 games or more, then I go do some lith relics to burn them, I take the most hipster weapons I own because I know there is going to be new players and I don't want to steal their fun by nuking the whole tileset and what do I see? dudes with best in slot weapons and nuking frames oneshoting even ordis and the lotus in a level 20 mission, so yeah...dis game too ezy eh?

 

1 hour ago, maddragonmaster said:

\and this is the warframe community that constantly has a out cry for challenging content? really? are we sure this community actually wants to work up a sweat or do they just want it because they think it sounds cool and they are mad because they can't have it?

Such is the duality of the Warframe player. Players cry about not having challenging content, yet they don't think about anything, copy all corrosive builds off of youtube, some gimmicky cheese build, or the 'META' build (cry when those things predictably get nerf), and cheese through the content. But when that specter of "this will not be super easy" starts to drift towards them they scream. "DE NERF ARBITRATIONS, DE NERF THE ENEMIES IN FORTUNA, DE NERF THE 1 HOUR SURVIVAL IN NIGHTWAVE (even though  many of us pop off at the mouth how easy it is but now its a problem cause I don't have friends, or now suddenly don't have time while complaining there's nothing to do)"

[maddragonmaster]

29 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

I agree. In fact one of the things some people have been asking for was a sort of mode where you have current star chart but swap over to one with appropriately leveled enemies for the vets. I had a few ideas for this that would be long to explain but I had envisioned that a vet star chart would have few nodes (as we don't need repeats, we just need the core modes on nodes) with appropriate level enemies, and better drops. There's a bunch of stuff I would add on, for example, stuff like Kuva Floods would be the standard. If you spend the effort to get that strong to fight butt #*!%ing strong enemies like that we should get better drops like that. You fight the scrubs you get scrub drops.

 

Such is the duality of the Warframe player. Players cry about not having challenging content, yet they don't think about anything, copy all corrosive builds off of youtube, some gimmicky cheese build, or the 'META' build (cry when those things predictably get nerf), and cheese through the content. But when that specter of "this will not be super easy" starts to drift towards them they scream. "DE NERF ARBITRATIONS, DE NERF THE ENEMIES IN FORTUNA, DE NERF THE 1 HOUR SURVIVAL IN NIGHTWAVE (even though  many of us pop off at the mouth how easy it is but now its a problem cause I don't have friends, or now suddenly don't have time while complaining there's nothing to do)"

such is the large contradiction i see. i don't advocate myself as being someone that craves challenge content to the point a base mob has the power to grind my warframes face into the ground. but i still think it is absolutely ridiculous when the community tends to crave difficulty far beyond what they can or should control. thats why i just suggest to have a level cap. besides asking for too much challenge can  be trouble with a few situations i have witness several times when DE dish out these challenging content. namely host migration being one of them, and the rest are bugs and glitches. 

[HugintheCrow]

50 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Such is the duality of the Warframe player. Players cry about not having challenging content, yet they don't think about anything

Cause you know, those are 2 different people, with completely different opinions, not some nebulous "warframe player" with a "duality".

[PR1D3]

Just now, HugintheCrow said:

Cause you know, those are 2 different people, with completely different opinions, not some nebulous "warframe player" with a "duality".

Must have struck a cord with you XP

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, PR1D3 said:

Must have struck a cord with you XP

Instead of striking it, pass me the AUX cord, my dude.

[PR1D3]

2 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Instead of striking it, pass me the AUX cord, my dude.

Ok. You got a chuckle out of me with that.

[maddragonmaster]

4 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Cause you know, those are 2 different people, with completely different opinions, not some nebulous "warframe player" with a "duality".

we are talking about the community as a whole. and there is actually players that cry for challenging and difficulty, yet they hate any changes to the formula. just take a look at how many people that rushed to make a comment in this thread when i made the suggestion of setting the level cap at 100. all they see is level 100 cap, and they didn't even pause to think about it. i specifically stating in my OP that the game would be scaled around the 100 level cap yet there was someone that called me high for making the suggestion. its people like this that makes me have no sympathy for the player base. sometimes it makes me want to say "cry me a river." when some person complains about the lack of difficulty.  

sure i know that there is plenty of players that complain about the game is too hard and what not, but those players don't have access to the power weapons, frames and mods yet. those  who have access to those are responsible for how easy they can make their gameplay be. besides if a player ends up complaining about oh lets say how easy an eidolon or a mother orb is  while fighting said bosses with a chroma or some other frame that buff weapon damage maximize to boost their allready powerful sniper weapon with a strong riven while taking crit buffs from their crit kavat, then they lost their privileged to complain about difficulty. they uses the most efficient tactic available, so they are partial to blame.

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, maddragonmaster said:

we are talking about the community as a whole.

See, that's exactly where you're making a mistake.

There is no such thing a a "community", for it is a made-up concept. Only individuals and their opinions matter.

[Troposphere6]

11 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

See, that's exactly where you're making a mistake.

There is no such thing a a "community", for it is a made-up concept. Only individuals and their opinions matter.

A community is a group of people that share something in common in this case warframe. The warframe community is just another way of talking about the warframe player base as a whole which is important. Without the ability to generalize and measure the player bases desire for certain changes it would quickly become nigh on impossible to figure out whom to listen to.