Short Range Meele Weapons need their own mods

[xxswatelitexx]

Short Range Meele weapons in Warframe is essentially useless especially more so in Meele 3.0 where Covert lethalty doesn't exist.

• Lack of Range
• Many cases less single target damage than alrger weapons
• Smaller Blocking arc
• Multiple enemy targeting far less compared to other weapons

Essentially small weapons like Daggers \ Claw Weapons \ Fist Weapons have no "Inherent Advantage" which would make them a viable pick compared to larger weapons.

With that said I suggest new Set of Mods;

Fists \ Claws

Kinetic Generator - Every 4th hit generates energy restoring 15% of the warframes maximum energy capacity

Monk's Grace - Damage Resistance increases with Combo Multiplier

Soul Ravager  - Percentage of damage inflicted is converted to True damage proportional to Combo Multiplier

 

Daggers

Plague Harbinger - Status effect applied on target spread to nearby targets on every 4th hit

Crippling Defect - Every 4th attack creates a "Weak point" which causes  the next Heavy attack to do 200% more damage

Low Blow - Heavy Attacks have 50% chance to temporarily stun enemy opening them up for a finisher

[Zeyez]

1st (Primed) Reach on next update will apply fixed amount of range, which can give an huge benefit for actual fist/claw weapons

2nd new combo system can bring some new features based on directional + block button by: making you move, focus on AoE damage, attacking while stationary and so on (look Wukong's 4th skill)

3rd its stated that Covert Lethality will be transfered to the Parazon, which can allow even fist/claws to be used as I.K. finisher tools, while allowing single daggers to be used in combat for other purposes

 

i think you brought that suggestion an bit too early, since right now, they won't have time to consider your thoughts

[Uhkretor]

13 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

i think you brought that suggestion an bit too early

^ this ^

... People love to jump the nuke... because jumping the gun is so last century...

[shut]

Did you happen to see the gifs of Skana gameplay in the Melee 3.0 workshop thread? Base range seems to have been buffed by a crapton (i.e. the hitbox extends well past the physical model of the weapon), and Primed Reach becoming additive means that most melees can have nearly Polearm-like range if you build them that way. The mobility is hella nice too.

EDIT:

Edited October 25, 2019 by SortaRandom

[xxswatelitexx]

4 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Did you happen to see the gifs of Skana gameplay in the Melee 3.0 workshop thread? Base range seems to have been buffed by a crapton (i.e. the hitbox extends well past the physical model of the weapon), and Primed Reach becoming additive means that most melees can have nearly Polearm-like range if you build them that way. The mobility is hella nice too.

EDIT:

 

Now divide that by half for daggers. 

22 minutes ago, Zeyez said:

1st (Primed) Reach on next update will apply fixed amount of range, which can give an huge benefit for actual fist/claw weapons

2nd new combo system can bring some new features based on directional + block button by: making you move, focus on AoE damage, attacking while stationary and so on (look Wukong's 4th skill)

3rd its stated that Covert Lethality will be transfered to the Parazon, which can allow even fist/claws to be used as I.K. finisher tools, while allowing single daggers to be used in combat for other purposes

 

i think you brought that suggestion an bit too early, since right now, they won't have time to consider your thoughts

Now multiply that by 3x for every other weapon as well.

Your argument is essentially disproved by the fact you failed to compare these weapons to their bigger counterparts. 

The actual question is; WHY WOULD YOU PICK SHORT RANGE WEAPONS OVER LONG RANGE?

And your answer just proves, you wouldn't because everything else does the same thing but 300% better. 

 

[shut]

14 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

 

Now divide that by half for daggers. 

Now multiply that by 3x for every other weapon as well.

Your argument is essentially disproved by the fact you failed to compare these weapons to their bigger counterparts. 

The actual question is; WHY WOULD YOU PICK SHORT RANGE WEAPONS OVER LONG RANGE?

And your answer just proves, you wouldn't because everything else does the same thing but 300% better. 

 

You're misunderstanding.

Range mods are becoming additive. Meaning that Primed Reach will add about +4.0m (current state of the mod from [DE]Bear's post in the workshop thread) to ALL weapons.
Polearm has 3m at base? Now it's 7m.
Dagger has 0.001m at base (hypothetically)? Now it's 4.001m-- which is still shorter than a polearm (obviously), but surprisingly long enough to carve up crowds of enemies at once.

 

For comparison, a standard polearm with Primed Reach reaches about 5.5m in the game's current state, with only Orthos/Guandao/Cassowar/Zaws reaching beyond that. Staves and Lesion barely reach 4.2m with PR in the current state, which is literally shorter than the worst-case-scenario for post-Melee-3.0 daggers (assuming that Primed Reach will indeed be +4.0m on release).
Suddenly, daggers are looking pretty good, no?

Edited October 25, 2019 by SortaRandom

[xxswatelitexx]

On 2019-10-24 at 8:13 PM, SortaRandom said:

You're misunderstanding.

Range mods are becoming additive. Meaning that Primed Reach will add about +4.0m (current state of the mod from [DE]Bear's post in the workshop thread) to ALL weapons.
Polearm has 3m at base? Now it's 7m.
Dagger has 0.001m at base (hypothetically)? Now it's 4.001m-- which is still shorter than a polearm (obviously), but surprisingly long enough to carve up crowds of enemies at once.

 

You are misunderstanding, just because it has longer range it has no benefit to be used over other weapons.

Why would you use a shorter range weapon - when a longer range weapon can hit more targets for more damage? 

 

Each weapon type should have their own benefits so they have a reason to pick over the other. 

Fists \ Daggers are short range \ small block - which means they need their own gimmick to be picked.

Edited October 27, 2019 by xxswatelitexx

[shut]

9 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

 

You are misunderstanding, just because it has longer range it has no benefit to be used over other weapons.

Why would you use a shorter range weapon - when a longer range weapon can hit more targets for more damage? 

 

Each weapon type should have their own benefits so they have a reason to pick over the other. 

Fists \ Daggers are short range \ small block - which means they need their own gimmick to be picked.

You are misunderstanding. While this is all subject to change with Melee 3.0, polearms tend to have moderate attacking speeds and no stance multipliers to speak of (with the exception of Twirling Spire, which has big damage at the cost of nonexistent mobility). Shorter-ranged weapons, on the other hand, tend to hit much more quickly and with better stance multipliers... and if DE's Skana preview is any indication, mobility should no longer be a problem for them either. Basically, polearms will always be great for sweeping up crowds, whereas daggers will deal more single-target DPS as long as DE handles the stance multipliers well.

In the end, both will (ideally) be equally viable, with players picking a type based on preference.

[xxswatelitexx]

1 hour ago, SortaRandom said:

You are misunderstanding. While this is all subject to change with Melee 3.0, polearms tend to have moderate attacking speeds and no stance multipliers to speak of (with the exception of Twirling Spire, which has big damage at the cost of nonexistent mobility). Shorter-ranged weapons, on the other hand, tend to hit much more quickly and with better stance multipliers... and if DE's Skana preview is any indication, mobility should no longer be a problem for them either. Basically, polearms will always be great for sweeping up crowds, whereas daggers will deal more single-target DPS as long as DE handles the stance multipliers well.

In the end, both will (ideally) be equally viable, with players picking a type based on preference.

Not going to debate stances since no real information on them has been released.

In a game where you fighting 20+ targets at once in high levels - hitting single targets is pointless. 

If I want to do high single target damage I can just use my tigris in their face and call it a day or Euphonia or numerous other range weapons that will out DPS a single target meele easily.

 

That is why I made the suggestion for Augment mods that give small range meele a unique play style which gives them a reason to exist. Otherwise they literally have none. Which is why daggers only purpose is covert lethality and why fist weapons only exist for personal fun and no other reason. 

[Clay_Blockss]

I believe he was referring to twirling spire as it is currently, which just requires use to understand. That being said,
Not gonna debate stances with someone who fails to read a comment.