What If Damage Mods Were Innate?

[WondahBoah]

This is a what if--the thought came into my mind and I wanted to see what the community thought about it. I'm rather neutral towards it; it wouldnt matter if this was implemented or not.

Here goes:

You know how Frames gain points in a stat when they rank up to 30 (shields, health, etc.)?

What if all weapons had that same ability to "level up" their stats? We'll just keep it simple and focus on damage mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank, Pressure Point).

The stat boost on a r30 weapon would range from between a point above or below a maxed damage mod, based on the weapon.

So by simply using and leveling the weapon itself, you can achieve an "end game" damage stat on your weapon.

This would allow for more diverse builds by freeing up a mod slot. would also save credits and cores.

The only downside I can see to this is how those who've got maxed damage mods on everything, or had to grind to even find one, would react (apparently really negatively, scroll down). However, I think they would quickly find that their killing capability would have increased with the freed slot.

Discuss away guys, I wanna know what you think

I say it should be half and half, just like how it is with the Warfames' health/shields. Weapons should get +100% damage at rank 30, and mods like Serration should be reduced to rank 5 mods that provide the other +100% damage. That way new players aren't completely screwed over as their weapon will upgrade just enough to be viable in higher level missions, but damage mods will still provide that extra kick you need for the real high level content.

P.S. Despite being rank 5, damage mods should still be a bit harder to level up so those who actually do have maxed mods don't get cheated out of all the effort they put into making them.

I think this is kinda cool.

Edited September 27, 2013 by WondahBoah

[NotBot]

I think making the damage mod innate is a great idea. The only times I can think of not having the damage mod on something is if you either simply don't have it, or want a challenge. The only problem I can think of is how to make sure those with maxed serration mods not have to suffer the now-void cost.

[holyicon]

Love it. Especially the implications of rollercoastering the dmg after a forma. ^^

[Silraed]

The best thing about this is that it would solve the problem for new players not being able to find those mods.

[Rhorge]

The best thing about this is that it would solve the problem for new players not being able to find those mods.

And how is that a problem? If we have everything from the get go the there is significantly less things to do in the game. I like having to earn power rather than just have it. Warframes shouldn't level up their stats either.

[Silraed]

And how is that a problem? If we have everything from the get go the there is significantly less things to do in the game. I like having to earn power rather than just have it. Warframes shouldn't level up their stats either.

 

There is a difference between earning your power and being punished by a very bad RNG system for a week and then quitting the game because you can't do anything passed the second or third area.

[Rhorge]

There is a difference between earning your power and being punished by a very bad RNG system for a week and then quitting the game because you can't do anything passed the second or third area.

Then the problem is the RNG system, not the mod system. I already suggested an entropy based system a million times since I started playing.

[Silraed]

Well I apologize for not having seen your suggestions.

 

The problem is both the current mod system and the RNG, but I doubt either would be changed soon.

[Rhorge]

What this game needs is a simulated RNG system, not an actual one. This isn't an ARPG where you get thousands copies of the same item with different numbers so the system just flat out doesn't work. If an entropy based system was in place then getting mods will not be random at all and playing more will always contribute towards your goal even if you don't get the mod, therefore the whole noob issue would not be an issue at all.

 

To those who don't know what an entropy based system is:

-entropy is a number assigned to an item that causes the item to drop once it reaches the maximum entropy value or increses the % drop chance along with the entropy value

-every time an item drops, it's entropy value decreases and is given to other items

-the more items drop, the higher the entropy value for the items that have not dropped yet

-as you get useless mods, you increase the chance of getting rare mods = profit

 

Why is this not in place already? No clue...

Edited September 27, 2013 by Rhorge

[N7Arthur]

Considering I have a maxed Serration and Hornet Strike, I would need to be given back at least 2 mil credits, and all the mods put into them, which is probably not tracked, so something like 200 Rare 5 cores. If this does happen, even if it makes weapons better, I would be mad because there is a very low chance that we would be getting full refunds on those mods.

[zombaio]

What this game needs is a simulated RNG system, not an actual one. This isn't an ARPG where you get thousands copies of the same item with different numbers so the system just flat out doesn't work. If an entropy based system was in place then getting mods will not be random at all and playing more will always contribute towards your goal even if you don't get the mod, therefore the whole noob issue would not be an issue at all.

 

To those who don't know what an entropy based system is:

-entropy is a number assigned to an item that causes the item to drop once it reaches the maximum entropy value or increses the % drop chance along with the entropy value

-every time an item drops, it's entropy value decreases and is given to other items

-the more items drop, the higher the entropy value for the items that have not dropped yet

-as you get useless mods, you increase the chance of getting rare mods = profit

 

Why is this not in place already? No clue...

Yes^

[Arkfall]

Back at the start of the year.. before Open Beta...

 

The old Mod system was like this... and the thing we were able to do... dear lord... you people think the Ogris or the Acrid is OP? HA!

 

That said, DE stepped away from that because of various reasons, the Mod System currently in place works on the practice of opportunity cost, and it's a good system.

[GottFaust]

Back at the start of the year.. before Open Beta...

 

The old Mod system was like this... and the thing we were able to do... dear lord... you people think the Ogris or the Acrid is OP? HA!

 

That said, DE stepped away from that because of various reasons, the Mod System currently in place works on the practice of opportunity cost, and it's a good system.

This.

It was tried before Open Beta and it just didn't work well at all. Same with skill trees. Same with mod stacking. None of it worked out all that well, but getting a 132k DPS gorgon with 600 rounds in the mag was fun for a few minutes.

[Dipstick]

mhm a boltor with %400+ multishot was fun to watch. 

 

That being said, there are some super valid points here. I think some of the damage mods do too much for our weapons, making them way too important. Damage and effective health also scale exponentially, which is also problematic - not to mention B.S. since tenno hp does not scale exponentially....

 

Maybe a flat nerf across the board for damage mods would easy the pain of those not having mods, and add some challenge back to those who do.

 

people will probably hate this

[Silraed]

mhm a boltor with %400+ multishot was fun to watch. 

 

That being said, there are some super valid points here. I think some of the damage mods do too much for our weapons, making them way too important. Damage and effective health also scale exponentially, which is also problematic - not to mention B.S. since tenno hp does not scale exponentially....

 

Maybe a flat nerf across the board for damage mods would easy the pain of those not having mods, and add some challenge back to those who do.

 

people will probably hate this

I have thought this for a very long time but have been too terrified of the backlash to even mumble it.

You sir are brave.

[Paradoxbomb]

I say it should be half and half, just like how it is with the Warfames' health/shields. Weapons should get +100% damage at rank 30, and mods like Serration should be reduced to rank 5 mods that provide the other +100% damage. That way new players aren't completely screwed over as their weapon will upgrade just enough to be viable in higher level missions, but damage mods will still provide that extra kick you need for the real high level content.

 

 

P.S. Despite being rank 5, damage mods should still be a bit harder to level up so those who actually do have maxed mods don't get cheated out of all the effort they put into making them.

[Dipstick]

I have thought this for a very long time but have been too terrified of the backlash to even mumble it.

You sir are brave.

maybe I'll be brave enough to make my own topic one day....

[WondahBoah]

Considering I have a maxed Serration and Hornet Strike, I would need to be given back at least 2 mil credits, and all the mods put into them, which is probably not tracked, so something like 200 Rare 5 cores. If this does happen, even if it makes weapons better, I would be mad because there is a very low chance that we would be getting full refunds on those mods.

I'm pretty sure they are tracked. I think a way to reimburse people would be to give them rare 5's based on the level of the highest damage mod they own, counting down from 50 cores, which is tons more than is possible to obtain in one go. Hell, they could even drop a forma alert while it happens.

At a more neutral standpoint, credits and cores are technically infinite; play more get more. To reimburse at that capacity would be counter intuitive, I think. If you've maxed serration and amassed an in-game net worth that allows you to pour those resources into one mod, it can be implied (I'm just guessing here)that you have several other 'necessary' mods maxed already, and the only new ones you could use the cores on are those that you wouldn't use anyways, or mods from new frames, which dont take much.

[WondahBoah]

Bump for discussions

[PaperAlien]

Then the problem is the RNG system, not the mod system. I already suggested an entropy based system a million times since I started playing.

The problem is the mod system that relies on the RNG system. This is the solution to that problem.

 

Damage mods, as well as shield/health mods, are pretty much compulsory for progressing through the game. Therefore they shouldn't be mods. Mods are optional additions to items to make them suit your playstyle. You don't need a cryo mod. You don't need a reload speed mod. You can choose which one to use on your weapon. Do you want to slow enemies down? Or sacrifice that to reload faster? Damage has every reason to scale primarily with the weapon level and not the mods.

A solution to people who already have high level damage mods, is to keep damage mods in the game, but reduce their effect. A weapon should get an innate damage bonus (only a damage bonus, no fire-rate/recoil etc which actually change the feel of the weapon) as it levels up. A damage mod should offer about 50% of that bonus but should also cost disproportionately high, similar to the elemental resistance/handspring mods (of course, a damage mod would actually be useful, unlike those). You get most of your damage from the weapon, but if you really, really want more damage, you can have it, but it will cost you. Then, you have to option between speccing for extra raw damage, or other utility mods, but both ways are now viable.

Everything I'd said here can probably also be applied to shield/health mods.

Edited September 30, 2013 by PaperAlien

[taiiat]

I say it should be half and half, just like how it is with the Warfames' health/shields. Weapons should get +100% damage at rank 30, and mods like Serration should be reduced to rank 5 mods that provide the other +100% damage. That way new players aren't completely screwed over as their weapon will upgrade just enough to be viable in higher level missions, but damage mods will still provide that extra kick you need for the real high level content.

 

 

P.S. Despite being rank 5, damage mods should still be a bit harder to level up so those who actually do have maxed mods don't get cheated out of all the effort they put into making them.

do it. 

doo eet. 

eat that +1. yes, you know you like it.

 

also, give us people with expensive damage mods that we've poured our fingers from clicking into by giving us a whole pile of Rare 10 Fusion Cores, and a bunch of Credits.

'cause it would be a cool thing to do. :>

or some 'i survived the...' Syandana(or other vanity items)  ;) then we could have one that i might actually wear. all of the current ones look uninteresting to me. pretty, but not something i'd ever wear. just like anyone else, i don't want to feel like dumping my buckets of water into that bottomless pit trying to fill it was all for naught. it is a testing phase where anything can change at any time, but man is that a lot of investment.

Edited September 30, 2013 by taiiat