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Flying_Scorpion

Why Warframe has such a great playerbase

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I've been trying to obtain Dethcube Prime since it was released and I've had terrible luck with the Cerebrum. So while I was farming Meso D4 relics, I noticed that I haven't had one drop in two days! Talk about bad luck. During the mission, I typed into chat "Meso D4 relics seem rare for me." and someone typed in response "I have 15 of them that I don't need." I offered to trade Meso T1 in exchange for his D4's and he agreed! 🙂

 

I refined 8 of them into radiant, and joined a Meso D4 relic radshare. Two of the party members only had 1 copy, so I gave each of those players several of my copies, including some radiants. Together we got the Dethcube Prime part, and generally that was a positive experience. This highlighted a positive moment for 4 different players (the 4 of us who needed Dethcube Cerebrum) and all it took was the generosity of one player to stop what he was doing and make a trade that he didn't really need to do. It also set a good example for a total of 7 players who witnessed the exchanges happen in chat. People like to focus on the negative experiences they have in Warframe so I just wanted to share an example of players banding together, "paying it forward", and being generous. This is what makes Warframe a great game 🙂

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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It stays that way as long as you avoid the forums.

/cynism

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It's simple, it's a cooperative game, not a competitive game

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The way Warframe works is that in encourages cooperation in a healthy manner. Instead of punishing you for not playing with others, it creates a system, that at its roots, makes it so cooperation isn't just the ideal way of playing the game, but is the healthiest way (I tried to summarize it best I could, since if I wanted to be accurate I'd be writing an essay).

 

And alongside that, the inclusion and coordination the developers have with the playerbase creates a healthy relationship between players and developers, which in turn, creates a healthy game.

 

This was intended upon creation of Warframe, and DE has mentioned that many times. 

I'm very happy for your experience, and I've had many such myself.

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Spend a day on the forums and you'll no longer think that his community is so great.

Heck, bring a range limbo into a defense and you'll get death threats from people.

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so... the Playerbase is great because someone gave you something for free. ok.

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1 hour ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

I've been trying to obtain Dethcube Prime since it was released and I've had terrible luck with the Cerebrum. So while I was farming Meso D4 relics, I noticed that I haven't had one drop in two days! Talk about bad luck. During the mission, I typed into chat "Meso D4 relics seem rare for me." and someone typed in response "I have 15 of them that I don't need." I offered to trade Meso T1 in exchange for his D4's and he agreed! 🙂

 

I refined 8 of them into radiant, and joined a Meso D4 relic radshare. Two of the party members only had 1 copy, so I gave each of those players several of my copies, including some radiants. Together we got the Dethcube Prime part, and generally that was a positive experience. This highlighted a positive moment for 4 different players (the 4 of us who needed Dethcube Cerebrum) and all it took was the generosity of one player to stop what he was doing and make a trade that he didn't really need to do. It also set a good example for a total of 7 players who witnessed the exchanges happen in chat. People like to focus on the negative experiences they have in Warframe so I just wanted to share an example of players banding together, "paying it forward", and being generous. This is what makes Warframe a great game 🙂

Thats the thing, its rarer then getting a public group via recruit chat, who actually have the brains to do a tridolon session without needing to require them to have 100~500 hydrolyst captures beforehand and manage to get 3 hydrolyst captures without too much hassle.

I can think of plenty of games that do a better job to enforce the activities you experience thru indirect means, Raids in Destiny & every boss/raid in Final fantasy 14 are prime examples of this since having one idiot unable to do something as simple as stand on a point to prevent a powerful enemy spawn to appear can utterly wipe a mission, even if in the case of experienced healer & tanks, its possible to ward off the punishment. FF14 being the more prime example since its still possible to recover from it, but once you have said person die multiple times, wasting the healer`s time reviving them, its better to boot them so they can understand they were ruining the thing entirely, which also helps that by having said people progress further in the fight they learn and refine what they need to do for each role they cover and what task they should be assigned to or even have the brains to get ready in advance to handle it swifter.

A game is good when its designed in a way that properly rewards skill & positive actions, but warframe is not amongst that lot since not much variation can exist to handle something in a more effective manner. There is no boon to running deeper rotations outside of being forced to chase after rotation C rewards or a time gate of waiting till the start of a new hour begins to force people into doing more then 1 or even 2 rounds of arbitations to get better odds of vitus essence. 

P.S: When i mean variation to handle things effectively, i mean when people can actually save alot of trouble by knowing beforehand on better measures to handle it, such as it should be obvious one should stock `many relics` when chasing rarer part drops. Since for things like eidolons it usually turns into one person having to haul a bunch of dead weight (such as a lazy blessing trinity, lazy limb busting chroma, a volt who does not know how to properly place shields or even a brain dead scream-guard harrow. not all at the same time, but you usually get one of those in public). Warframe does not really give much of an option B when it comes to opening relics or grant people a much better reward for doing 8 or even 21 rotations of a endless mission, as much as a person just resetting the mission each time after doing 3 rotations of a mission, 7 times.

Ultimately what occured was someone who gave  zero cares on the pile of relics he had and basically flooded you in a act of zero fks given, since they likely had thousands upon thousands of plat or put money into the game to give zero care to market chat, the place you would normally turn those relics into plat or the parts for them. Since you get no better value for relics on ducats, whether they are freshly released or vaulted. Then in a fit of kindness you shared the loot to other people since you did not want to constantly remake a group to deal with them.

Know what else could of occurred? The people could of ran off with your relics, put you on ignore and probably pretend they have plenty of traces just to hood-wink you, Which is a common gag you can see in things such as Coupon scammers, even when your on the most generous high for making great sales, but then lose 200 of them cause of 2 a-holes who rather ruin the positive and the naive for a fistful of platinum. 

P.S. i actually one time did a similar thing where i shared my extra relics, void traces and so on in order to get the part i wanted after me and a group of 3 others already burnt thru 2 radiant relics, want to know what happen when i basically gave all 3 of them radiant relics and 3 of them each? One of them ran off and put me on ignore then the other two did not even think to return the relics and did not even chatter with me. Point n-case, sharing with `strangers` is a bad idea unless you have zero care on what you are giving out. hence why its usually extra arcanes, fish or mods i just throw in to tempt people into a sweeter deal to make sales when i try to scrape plat together in that mess hole, we call market chat.

Edited by Avienas
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31 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

Spend a day on the forums and you'll no longer think that his community is so great.

Heck, bring a range limbo into a defense and you'll get death threats from people.

Yes the forums are a place where people tend to complain (myself included). Case in point, the announced nerfing of the Catchmoon last week. I tried to ask what people are going to use instead but the complaining just went on and on.
Ouch on the death threats. Limbo can be a right pain in the a... in the hands of the wrong player, but he's still a brilliant defense frame (cue flames from forum posters) 😃

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

so... the Playerbase is great because someone gave you something for free. ok.

No, the playerbase is great when people help people. Yes it's nice when someone wants to give you something for free, but it's also nice when players are willing to help other players to get a specific drop, unlock waypoints, farm loot etc.

Sadly as Avienas pointed out there are some who will just be out to get whatever they can for themselves. A few minutes on trade chat shows that very quickly.

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Always thought it was because there are like no good free MMO or Coop  actually right now, only some old stuffs like Tera, Blade and Soul, etc.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

No, the playerbase is great when people help people. Yes it's nice when someone wants to give you something for free, but it's also nice when players are willing to help other players to get a specific drop, unlock waypoints, farm loot etc.

ok, so now it's great when people either give you something for free, carry you, or when you play a game with friends.
well, every game is fun with friends, all of them. 

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1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

It stays that way as long as you avoid the forums.

/cynism

Eh, forums. As forums go, this one is better than most. 

53 minutes ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

The way Warframe works is that in encourages cooperation in a healthy manner.

It does, but it goes a bit deeper than that. You also aren't particularly dependent on others to get what you need done. This makes it easier to tolerate That Guy and just drive on. That Guy can't really screw up your progression or experience all that much. 

EQ was a very cooperative game. You could do very little on your own and were almost absolutely dependent on others for progression. Consequently, there was NO tolerance for foolishness of any sort. The game penalized failure very heavily through massive experience loss. Needless to say, the community was very quick to ostracize That Guy--and they made it stick.

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3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

ok, so now it's great when people either give you something for free, carry you, or when you play a game with friends.
well, every game is fun with friends, all of them. 

Wow, the cynicism is strong with this one!

Agreed, any game with friends can be fun. But how often do you hear of strangers helping strangers with no thought of a return? I think that is more what OP is trying say in this case.

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5 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Eh, forums. As forums go, this one is better than most. 

It does, but it goes a bit deeper than that. You also aren't particularly dependent on others to get what you need done. This makes it easier to tolerate That Guy and just drive on. That Guy can't really screw up your progression or experience all that much. 

EQ was a very cooperative game. You could do very little on your own and were almost absolutely dependent on others for progression. Consequently, there was NO tolerance for foolishness of any sort. The game penalized failure very heavily through massive experience loss. Needless to say, the community was very quick to ostracize That Guy--and they made it stick.

Thanks for going more in depth. That's exactly why I stated I would go more deep into the topic if I was willing to write an essay's worth. It goes so much deeper, but getting to every crevice takes more time that many of is have, so of each of us can add small contributions to the topic, we could identify what makes Warframe such a healthy game. That could be a template for future MMOs and loot-driven multiplayer games. That would honestly be very cool.

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Just now, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

Yes the forums are a place where people tend to complain (myself included). Case in point, the announced nerfing of the Catchmoon last week. I tried to ask what people are going to use instead but the complaining just went on and on.
Ouch on the death threats. Limbo can be a right pain in the a... in the hands of the wrong player, but he's still a brilliant defense frame (cue flames from forum posters) 😃

Chances are i would switch back to my pyrana prime or akstilleto prime which are guns more made for shooting at a distance with actual projectiles and can actually make good use of corrosive since they fire rapidly and that means more armor stripping. Granted the catchmoon nerfs will likely not affect me that much since i can always pull the trigger a few more times or actually do the JOJO MEME and get up in my target`s face so they can enjoy a face-full of plasma, just like how a proper shotgun that is not a slug-style should work.

As for limbo its basically because not many frames would usually interfer with others except agonizing visuals. if i had to refer to destiny, a fine example of some bad f-ups could be when titans do not place a barricade properly, a warlock places its aura in a bad spot so its healing/overshield/dmg boost cant be utilized and hunters just being bad at setting traps.

In warframe`s case, well Volt shield directing and placing and bad coloring is a good example of bad civ mess ups in eidolon hunts.~

 

Just now, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

No, the playerbase is great when people help people. Yes it's nice when someone wants to give you something for free, but it's also nice when players are willing to help other players to get a specific drop, unlock waypoints, farm loot etc.

Sadly as Avienas pointed out there are some who will just be out to get whatever they can for themselves. A few minutes on trade chat shows that very quickly.

If a game properly rewards positive actions and makes sure to a put a proper leash to prevent bad behavior, then a game can stay healthy, this is why warframe gets loads of negative hype-level memes. Because huge amounts of grind with no real reward for that extra work is not helpful and having things be too `free` is what can lead to scammers running rampant and people not able to keep some actual chart of item pricing going so people are not force into a heck war on trying to market things, especially when its NOT a new prime item, arcane or unvaulted bunch of goods.

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

But how often do you hear of strangers helping strangers with no thought of a return?

roughly about the same in every game, and everywhere on the internet.

7 minutes ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

we could identify what makes Warframe such a healthy game. That could be a template for future MMOs and loot-driven multiplayer games. 

so, the anti-social nature of it by Players not having any reason to co-operate with each other in Gameplay? or that other Players mostly exist in your Missions to give you more l00t or to react when they see a Revive indicator on their screen, plus that they inject activity into the Chat? or that Gamemodes either struggle to give more than one Player something to do at a time or are setup so that Players can stand in locations nowhere near each other for the entire Mission?
Warframe is pretty anti-social, yo. being social isn't encouraged in 99% of the game and the Community by large has childish, toxic views on the 1% of the game that does.

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29 minutes ago, taiiat said:

ok, so now it's great when people either give you something for free, carry you, or when you play a game with friends.
well, every game is fun with friends, all of them. 

Okay, so how would you describe a good game community?

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5 minutes ago, Gentleman_Bird said:

Okay, so how would you describe a good game community?

the game has to take part too. encouraging people to learn, and then giving them challenges to that knowledge, so that they have an opportunity to actually work together, not just co-exist i the same space.

just as you aren't co-operating with some random person in your Town/City just by being in the same area as them, a game that doesn't actually push you with some challenges isn't getting you to co-operate with another Player, just co-exist.

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1 minute ago, taiiat said:

the game has to take part too. encouraging people to learn, and then giving them challenges to that knowledge, so that they have an opportunity to actually work together, no just co-exist i the same space.

just as you aren't co-operating with some random person in your Town/City just by being in the same area as them, a game that doesn't actually push you with some challenges isn't getting you to co-operate with another Player, just co-exist.

So basically, you want raids?

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1 minute ago, Gentleman_Bird said:

So basically, you want raids?

that's one form of an option, but that's far from the only answer. every Mission could follow traits like that, but the game has done the opposite and made "co-operative" Gameplay really just be "Solo with a Chat box" 99% of the time.

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47 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Thats the thing, its rarer then getting a public group via recruit chat, who actually have the brains to do a tridolon session without needing to require them to have 100~500 hydrolyst captures beforehand and manage to get 3 hydrolyst captures without too much hassle.

I can think of plenty of games that do a better job to enforce the activities you experience thru indirect means, Raids in Destiny & every boss/raid in Final fantasy 14 are prime examples of this since having one idiot unable to do something as simple as stand on a point to prevent a powerful enemy spawn to appear can utterly wipe a mission, even if in the case of experienced healer & tanks, its possible to ward off the punishment. FF14 being the more prime example since its still possible to recover from it, but once you have said person die multiple times, wasting the healer`s time reviving them, its better to boot them so they can understand they were ruining the thing entirely, which also helps that by having said people progress further in the fight they learn and refine what they need to do for each role they cover and what task they should be assigned to or even have the brains to get ready in advance to handle it swifter.

A game is good when its designed in a way that properly rewards skill & positive actions, but warframe is not amongst that lot since not much variation can exist to handle something in a more effective manner. There is no boon to running deeper rotations outside of being forced to chase after rotation C rewards or a time gate of waiting till the start of a new hour begins to force people into doing more then 1 or even 2 rounds of arbitations to get better odds of vitus essence. 

P.S: When i mean variation to handle things effectively, i mean when people can actually save alot of trouble by knowing beforehand on better measures to handle it, such as it should be obvious one should stock `many relics` when chasing rarer part drops. Since for things like eidolons it usually turns into one person having to haul a bunch of dead weight (such as a lazy blessing trinity, lazy limb busting chroma, a volt who does not know how to properly place shields or even a brain dead scream-guard harrow. not all at the same time, but you usually get one of those in public). Warframe does not really give much of an option B when it comes to opening relics or grant people a much better reward for doing 8 or even 21 rotations of a endless mission, as much as a person just resetting the mission each time after doing 3 rotations of a mission, 7 times.

Ultimately what occured was someone who gave  zero cares on the pile of relics he had and basically flooded you in a act of zero fks given, since they likely had thousands upon thousands of plat or put money into the game to give zero care to market chat, the place you would normally turn those relics into plat or the parts for them. Since you get no better value for relics on ducats, whether they are freshly released or vaulted. Then in a fit of kindness you shared the loot to other people since you did not want to constantly remake a group to deal with them.

Know what else could of occurred? The people could of ran off with your relics, put you on ignore and probably pretend they have plenty of traces just to hood-wink you, Which is a common gag you can see in things such as Coupon scammers, even when your on the most generous high for making great sales, but then lose 200 of them cause of 2 a-holes who rather ruin the positive and the naive for a fistful of platinum. 

P.S. i actually one time did a similar thing where i shared my extra relics, void traces and so on in order to get the part i wanted after me and a group of 3 others already burnt thru 2 radiant relics, want to know what happen when i basically gave all 3 of them radiant relics and 3 of them each? One of them ran off and put me on ignore then the other two did not even think to return the relics and did not even chatter with me. Point n-case, sharing with `strangers` is a bad idea unless you have zero care on what you are giving out. hence why its usually extra arcanes, fish or mods i just throw in to tempt people into a sweeter deal to make sales when i try to scrape plat together in that mess hole, we call market chat.

Found the Negative Nancy....

It's a freaking game. If someone is not playing up to your par that you invited, help them get there not DAS BOOT them so they now have the experience of being kicked.

People remember the negative more than positive as the world gives them more negative.

The game had much more positives such as the OP when it first came out. People realized it was a small community and helped out since they recalled how it felt to be the new kid on the block. As the game aged and other found it from other games (CoD, Battlefield, Minecraft) the attitude changed more from helping out to getting rewards as fast as possible. This was in part from the PvP attitudes, DE changing the Void to Relics and traces, and the time limits placed on how long each Fissure would last. No more of the go do runs for the fun and get something for playing. Now it's run as fast as you can and if you don't have a Relic, you don't get Jack.

And ....that is the reason RANDOM ACTS such as these barely happen anymore....

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1 minute ago, taiiat said:

that's one form of an option, but that's far from the only answer. every Mission could follow traits like that, but the game has done the opposite and made "co-operative" Gameplay really just be "Solo with a Chat box" 99% of the time.

It's looking like Railjack could have what you're looking for, with different players getting different roles and supporting each other.

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1 minute ago, Gentleman_Bird said:

It's looking like Railjack could have what you're looking for, with different players getting different roles and supporting each other.

it's possible, but it hinges on there being actual challenges to push Players there, rather than the 'participation award' that is the summary for basically the entire game so far, where simply Logging in and clicking Play means you win.

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

Found the Negative Nancy....

It's a freaking game. If someone is not playing up to your par that you invited, help them get there not DAS BOOT them so they now have the experience of being kicked.

People remember the negative more than positive as the world gives them more negative.

The game had much more positives such as the OP when it first came out. People realized it was a small community and helped out since they recalled how it felt to be the new kid on the block. As the game aged and other found it from other games (CoD, Battlefield, Minecraft) the attitude changed more from helping out to getting rewards as fast as possible. This was in part from the PvP attitudes, DE changing the Void to Relics and traces, and the time limits placed on how long each Fissure would last. No more of the go do runs for the fun and get something for playing. Now it's run as fast as you can and if you don't have a Relic, you don't get Jack.

And ....that is the reason RANDOM ACTS such as these barely happen anymore....

Back then de actually took some risks and now that they're in a comfy spot they don't have to try as hard when looking into issues or ways to improve the game because why fix the game for older players than make a bunch of new crp for new players to enjoy?

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1 hour ago, Sloan441 said:

EQ was a very cooperative game. You could do very little on your own and were almost absolutely dependent on others for progression. Consequently, there was NO tolerance for foolishness of any sort. The game penalized failure very heavily through massive experience loss. Needless to say, the community was very quick to ostracize That Guy--and they made it stick.

You just helped me realize why I don't play EVE Online anymore. I used to play a lot of that game, starting back in 2008. I always had a bit of trouble figuring out why I liked Warframe so much more, and here it is - I am not dependent upon other players to do the things that I want to do. In EVE Online, if I wanted to pilot a big powerful ship, I would be very dependent upon having other players with me or, else I would get destroyed by a group of enemy players. Warframe is so much easier to just jump in, feel powerful, and then leave. No need to tie yourself up with a bunch of others or spend a significant amount of time looking for the action. 

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