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Feedback: Titania rework. (Devstream updated)


ixidron92
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On 2019-10-29 at 8:22 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

We’re already getting a rework with her deluxe.

Thorns gives DR

Razorflies will pick up tribute buffs

1-3 will he upper body animations

Doesn’t address lantern still floating away and taking half a week to return to its original position or spellbinds useless existence all NC with half of Tributes buffs, tho.

you call that a rework?

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hace 6 horas, zhellon dijo:

ps. One good thing. 10 butterflies is better than 6. But still not enough.

U can use 6.25 energy to have +1 butterfly, or u can just recast ur 4 using 6.25 energy to have +6 butterflies.

This system to regain razorwings is stupid... -__-

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Now Titania feels even worse. Before i used Diwata as a healing stick using Life Strike and as a emergency teleport.

U could fight with Dex Pixia, and i ur hp became low u hit E + middle button and regain ur life. Now is more like, u press F, then move (slowly, as Diwata dont teleport u in front of enemies) and then uses u Heavy Attack (and pray, because sometimes dont work because reasons). 7 of 10 times u will die because the system now is slow and clunky as hell.

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7 minutes ago, Rylatar said:

The new DR from Thorns is only 25%. That's... Pitiful. Aviator gives more. : /

I think the buffs should scale with strength because I don't feel there's a point in casting them because of

I was expecting a somewhat low DR ( about 50% ). But 25% is to low, like that is a 33% effective HP increse.

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3 часа назад, Gaxxian сказал:

U can use 6.25 energy to have +1 butterfly, or u can just recast ur 4 using 6.25 energy to have +6 butterflies.

This system to regain razorwings is stupid... -__-

Butterflies do not recover through tribute. Simply comes a new a butterfly for every buff. If it was recovering, I would still think about the benefits.

Yeah, that's dumb. They just strengthened Titania in AFK farm 30 levels.

As I said earlier, if they solve the energy problem in razorwing, there will be no reason to save energy so much. In fact, restoring butterflies through buffs would be very convenient, given that butterflies now pick them up themselves.

Edited by zhellon
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Besides the good QOL changes, this update did practically nothing. Razorflies still needs some kind of DR or more health. During a Kuva Flood (lvl 80+) they don't even last 30 seconds before they're all dead. I could spam Tribute all day and it wouldn't make a difference. It's still better to reactivate Razorwing.

 

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I'm ignoring the ability changes because in all honesty they're not worth commenting on, there's that little changed. 

I do like the option to switch to operator, would be nice if the razorwings kept working or even better it would become some sort of 'spectre' and keep killing stuff.  Don't like the return to razorwing from operator, it's really jarring and titania is often in some random position leaving me disorientated. 

Noticed some changes to melee when in archwing, seems that it no longer 'auto attacks next target' like it used to, could we get that back because as it currently stands it's rather annoying and more often than not misses the intended target.  This is also a perfect example of why 'heavy attacks' are not suited to all weapons.....  If titania is an early preview of the planned changes to archwing melee, best you go back to the drawing board, they're worse than before imo too. 

Edited by LSG501
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hace 27 minutos, LSG501 dijo:

I'm ignoring the ability changes because in all honesty they're not worth commenting on, there's that little changed.

Totally xD Yeah.

hace 27 minutos, LSG501 dijo:

I do like the option to switch to operator, would be nice if the razorwings kept working or even better it would become some sort of 'spectre' and keep killing stuff.  Don't like the return to razorwing from operator, it's really jarring and titania is often in some random position leaving me disorientated.

+1 :S

hace 28 minutos, LSG501 dijo:

Noticed some changes to melee when in archwing, seems that it no longer 'auto attacks next target' like it used to, could we get that back because as it currently stands it's rather annoying and more often than not misses the intended target.  This is also a perfect example of why 'heavy attacks' are not suited to all weapons.....  If titania is an early preview of the planned changes to archwing melee, best you go back to the drawing board, they're worse than before imo too. 

Yes, i hate those changes too 😞

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Alright, the archwing missing the autolock was a bug and is now fixed. the problem of heavy attacks not triggering heavy attack mods half the time still persists, though. I also don't like the fact that during razorwing the operator goes back to Titania instead of the other way around like everyone else. I see that most heavy attack mods are not available for Titania either. Dispatch overdrive is a nice utility mod that Titania could use for speed boosting. Seeing as how Diwata rarely kills, having it as an utility stick is nice, but not if all the utility is barred from her.

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The changes weren't enough. Hope she gets more. Given feedback about her repeatedly and none of it has really changed so I won't bother repeating what everyone else has said numerous times. 

Also, the razorflies picking up Tributes doesn't even seem to work half the time when I briefly tested her in a mission. I'd hit something with Tribute and just watch and it would sometimes be a long time before one decided to go get it. Their priority seems to be doing bad damage to random mobs instead. 

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hace 23 horas, Borg1611 dijo:

The changes weren't enough. Hope she gets more. Given feedback about her repeatedly and none of it has really changed so I won't bother repeating what everyone else has said numerous times. 

Also, the razorflies picking up Tributes doesn't even seem to work half the time when I briefly tested her in a mission. I'd hit something with Tribute and just watch and it would sometimes be a long time before one decided to go get it. Their priority seems to be doing bad damage to random mobs instead. 

They don't seem to bother with tributes you already have, but usually pick up tributes you don't have after a second or so. What we need is razorflies to respawn. Tributes increase your max count, but picking up one doesn't re-spawn a dead razorfly, and in high level missions like kuva floods or arbitrations, the razorflies last mere seconds.

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В 11/2/2019 в 1:01 AM, Borg1611 сказал:

Also, the razorflies picking up Tributes doesn't even seem to work half the time when I briefly tested her in a mission. I'd hit something with Tribute and just watch and it would sometimes be a long time before one decided to go get it. Their priority seems to be doing bad damage to random mobs instead.

The system works fine, if there is a buff, the nearest razor fly gets an order to collect it and executes it. The problem is obstacles. Razorfly are not very smart by themselves. They can attack the wall in an attempt to collect the buff. They just don't have sophisticated AI, they don't know how to predict the way. They go forward, crash into the obstacle, go back 1 second and crash into the obstacle again. This will continue until they find the right way.

I don't think they need to do a rebalance A Just that Titania needs to have the ability to teleport them for proper positioning.

Edited by zhellon
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So, I've been rewording and expanded on the suggestions I made beforehand. This is the result:

Passive - Razorflies

Razorflies could work similarly to Venari, as an exalted pet – sentinel in this case. Fully modable with sentinel mods and, of course, a sentinel melee weapon.

They could respawn when killed 1 by 1 after a certain amount of time and every time Titania picks a Tribute.

1- New ability replacing spellbind

Sticking to Titania's role, this one could be something Support/CC oriented. Considering her other abilities are based on fairy powers (Mesmerizing, shape-shifting, illusions...), her new ability could as well be based on the other powers fairies have that aren't already present: Healing and plant manipulation, which would fit, since she's  the protector of Earth's forest in Warframe's lore.

Titania could create a safe zone for allies that grant them a series of protective and beneficial buffs. Salvaging the support part of Spellbind, one could be Status Effect Inmunity. Seen the connection Titania has with the forest and specters. Sheltered Grotto would be a fitting name.

Sheltered Grotto

Titania creates an area protected by nature itself, where allies can get a respite. Anyone inside the grotto becomes invisible so long as they aren't attacking or using offensive abilities. They also gain minor (i.e: not something you can use for tanking unlike Wisp or Oberon) HP, Shield and Energy regeneration on top of status effect and knockback/knockdown immunity. Enemies are repelled back if they try to enter and receive the radiation status effect (no damage).

Functionality & justification: This ability works as a minor defensive and support ability, allowing allies to pause and recover if necessary, providing a safe zone that by its mechanics will not become obsolete even against high end content. In addition, it also functions as a zoning ability that can block a doorway for example.

The ability is based on fairy lore, seeing as how they protect certain key areas that usually contain healing springs, the heart of the forest, etc. by causing people with nefarious intentions to get lost and disoriented while allowing those with good intentions to rest.

Following Titania's kit philosophy, it's a CC and support ability with minor (or in this case, practically null) damage potential. Like lantern and tribute, the radiation status is meant to symbolize the pixies' ability to mesmerize and confuse.

2- Tribute

·         Auras could scale up (or down) depending on your stats. Right now, their strength, range and duration are fixed, making them quite an oddity.

·         Tributes could be selectable using the same modern mechanics you use for Vauban and Wisp. Tap to select the tribute and hold to cast.

·         Effects on enemies could depend on the tribute selected (i.e: If Dust is selected and the enemy survives, they get their accuracy reduced by the same amount).

·         Damage needs a serious buff. I'm not saying it should 1-shot level 100 enemies, but most Warframe abilities can kill at lest level 50-60 enemies, while this one barely kills a level 30 one. In addition, damage could change the damage type to radiation with guaranteed status effect. It would fit fairies and pixies trickster nature, as it would turn the target against its allies.

·         Picking up a tribute could respawn a Razorfly. Right now, Razorflies dies in seconds to enemies over level 80, and picking up tributes only increases your max Razorfly count, but it doesn't matter, if they are all dead. So, you're forced to recast Razorwing to respawn them, making the whole process useless.

Dust could remain as is. This one is probably the best aura there is, although it becomes obsolete at higher levels where enemies have pin-point accuracy.

The other three auras could be Replaced/Reworked/Tweaked.

Thorns could get merged with Entangle (Call it, say: Entangling Brambles) into an aura that slows down all enemy actions as well as deal periodical damage and reduce enemy damage output. Damage reflection just doesn't cut it. It's a terrible mechanic that doesn't work simply because of the massive difference in HP and damage output and on top of that, it requires you to get hit, which is something you never want to do.

Full moon aura could increase power strength slightly as well as granting your (and your allies') companions with the extra damage and critical/status effect chance. Even so, companions are not known for being able to kill consistently. If that many effects feel like overkill, I would vote the power strength alone.

And the final aura could give a series of bonuses to some of the least typical stats like crit/status chance, casting animation speed, etc.

3-Lantern

Lantern and Spellbind overlap with one another, to the point of being almost identical. So, why not merge them?

·         Lantern could become a placeable (ala reservoir). Titania throws a lantern that lands in the targeted area, dealing some damage and making enemies float harmlessly (in a spellbind fashion but tethered to the lantern).

·         In that fashion, it could have unlimited duration (much like the reservoirs).

·         Other nearby enemies will be taunted by the lantern and the floating enemies you've caught beforehand and will be forced to attack them.

·         The lantern will reflect damage back (see, here it makes sense, since the target is an easily replaceable proxy) and also store damage.

·         After its been damaged enough, the lantern releases a pulse of radiation, dealing damage to any enemy caught in its area.

·         The explosion deals a set amount of damage but gains bonus damage by every enemy caught beforehand and the damage it has absorbed.

·         In addition, the lantern could also project any tribute auras you might have active on yourself but will not benefit from them. (In essence, acting like a repeater antenna to your allies, in case you're out of range).

·         Damage (reflected & explosion) could be radiation with a chance to cause status.

4- Razorwing

The basic functionality could stay the same (you turn into a flying pixie and gain access to Dex Pixia and Diwata).

Diwata could be buffed slightly and given 5 (10 with reactor) extra baseline energy to compensate for the lack of stance or it could draw from the Paracesis mechanic and gain extra energy with each forma.

Instead of consuming energy while active, it could work in a similar fashion to Equinox's metamorphosis. To compensate, I think its baseline cost should be much higher.

Following the same philosophy, in Razorwing mode, Titania could gain 3 new abilities. Razorwing clashes with Titania's style. Her abilities paint her like a CC/Support frame with little offensive power, yet Razorwing does the exact opposite and turns her into an assassin frame. So, a dual mode could fit her quite nicely. Her standard form could act as the intended CC/Support role, while her Razorwing could gain 3 new abilities all based around offense and mobility.

This gives her a duality which fits quite nicely with fairies and pixies. First, we have the trickster and protector and then, the flying, angered little avengers of the forest. The fact that her abilities and roles change so drastically, makes it necessary for you to swap between modes. You'll need to swap back to your standard form if you intend to recover or if you have to recast your auras, meanwhile, her CC/Support centric kit with little or delayed damage and no mobility, makes it appealing to switch to Razorwing mode to traverse distances or go into the offensive.

New ability 1 - Command Razorflies

Respawns Razorflies if they are all dead. Otherwise, Razorflies teleport back to Titania and rush towards the target area, dealing heavy slash damage and status in a line and then in a small impact area once they reach their objective, then proceed to attack the nearest enemy. If an enemy is selected, they also latch to the enemy until either is killed or you redeploy them. If an ally (or lantern) is the target, Razorwings would follow the ally unless they get too far away, or you redeploy them. Hold to recall them to you.

New ability 2 - Blink

It's simple and effective. Woks in an analogous manner as Archwing one. Hold the button to teleport back to your lantern's location.

New ability 3 – Razor Storm

Respawns all Razorflies if they are dead. If not, Razorflies teleport back to Titania, swirling around her like a tornado and dealing heavy slash damage and status in an area. While doing so, they are no longer acting their role. So, they will no longer draw enemy attention or become targetable by the enemy, and neither will they use their sentinel mod abilities. In addition, this ability will consume energy every second it's active. You may use Command Razorflies to send them hurling towards the targeted area (where they'll remain as a tornado) or to make them latch to an enemy, an ally, or the lantern, where they'll remain as a tornado centered around the target.

Edited by ixidron92
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Oh, hey! You're suggested new first ability to replace Spellbind is like my dream ability for Titania's one! Love her. She's my most played frame and I'm currently 68/68 with frames. Spent hours in the simulacrum and run all content with her solo aside from Eidolon hunts since I dislike those. I've been wanting make a feedback thread for Titania for literal years. Always talk myself out of it. 

- I like the idea of Razorflies being moddable. Pretty much instantly die in any mission above 40. This could certainly help! And, just make them more fun in general.

- Again, I do like your suggested first ability. I would personally rather a Radiation proc for enemies entering the grotto since I don't like knockdown/back effects. Radiation would still be a bit of CC but also provide some indirect damage. I get what you're getting at for making the area as a refuge and safe space for allies and not really oppose to knocking enemies out of it. Going insane within the woods is a common fantasy trope. 

- One of the things I've always wanted with Lantern is to be able to "plant" a glowing bulb-like plant. And! To be able to plant that within the new first ability to enhance its potential. Maybe by summoning Razorflies from enemies that die while under the effect of the Lantern if it's planted within the grotto. OR! Maybe it can increase the size of the grotto. 

- I like the idea of your new abilities for Razorwing! One of my more annoying issues with Razorwing is the razorflies will go nearly across the map. Really slows down Defense missions. Being able to command the razorflies to return to me would be a huge QoL. You're Blink ability also fixes another issue I have with Titania that I never see people mention. Her dodges are extremely slow. Being able to blink would be nice! 

I like your suggested rework ideas. I hope DE revisits Titania again. She's so much fun! Probably won't until her Prime (which isn't too much longer) and even then they may not change her too much. I hope someone at DE sees this thread and considers your suggestions. And, that this thread gets bumped again when closer to her prime. 

Edited by Banette
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1 минуту назад, Banette сказал:
You're Blink ability also fixes another issue I have with Titania that I never see people mention. Her dodges are extremely slow. Being able to blink would be nice!

If all archwings get blink as a means of maneuvering, then I'd rather Titania get these buffs instead of taking out blink on a separate ability. I'd prefer the Dex Pixie and Divata to be a separate ability, sparing the razorwing from draining energy when they're not active.

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hace 13 horas, Banette dijo:

Oh, hey! You're suggested new first ability to replace Spellbind is like my dream ability for Titania's one! Love her. She's my most played frame and I'm currently 68/68 with frames. Spent hours in the simulacrum and run all content with her solo aside from Eidolon hunts since I dislike those. I've been wanting make a feedback thread for Titania for literal years. Always talk myself out of it. 

- I like the idea of Razorflies being moddable. Pretty much instantly die in any mission above 40. This could certainly help! And, just make them more fun in general.

- Again, I do like your suggested first ability. I would personally rather a Radiation proc for enemies entering the grotto since I don't like knockdown/back effects. Radiation would still be a bit of CC but also provide some indirect damage. I get what you're getting at for making the area as a refuge and safe space for allies and not really oppose to knocking enemies out of it. Going insane within the woods is a common fantasy trope. 

- One of the things I've always wanted with Lantern is to be able to "plant" a glowing bulb-like plant. And! To be able to plant that within the new first ability to enhance its potential. Maybe by summoning Razorflies from enemies that die while under the effect of the Lantern if it's planted within the grotto. OR! Maybe it can increase the size of the grotto. 

- I like the idea of your new abilities for Razorwing! One of my more annoying issues with Razorwing is the razorflies will go nearly across the map. Really slows down Defense missions. Being able to command the razorflies to return to me would be a huge QoL. You're Blink ability also fixes another issue I have with Titania that I never see people mention. Her dodges are extremely slow. Being able to blink would be nice! 

I like your suggested rework ideas. I hope DE revisits Titania again. She's so much fun! Probably won't until her Prime (which isn't too much longer) and even then they may not change her too much. I hope someone at DE sees this thread and considers your suggestions. And, that this thread gets bumped again when closer to her prime. 

I'm glad you likes the changes. My intention is to keep Titania thematic with her whole Pixie/Fairy flair, maintaining her abilities in accordance with folklore and at the same time providing usefulness and synergy even at higher levels. I have added your suggestions to the mix as well. Radiation damage and status fit Titania perfectly. It''s all about confusion and bewilderment. 

I just looked at her fundamental issues and the usual complains and tried to give her more control over her whole kit without making them overpowered, focusing on utility and functionality over straight buffs. 

With her prime coming either January or late March/early April, I think it's time for a rework. Specially, if we take into account that Titania is one of the frames with the biggest, glaring issues and complete lack of synergy. For example Dust and Thorns conflicting with one another, lantern and spellbind completely overlapping to the point that they look almost the ame ability, or the fact that Razorflies die if you look at them the wrong way and you can only revive them by re-casting Razorwing, not to mention the fact that you can't control them at all.

hace 13 horas, zhellon dijo:

If all archwings get blink as a means of maneuvering, then I'd rather Titania get these buffs instead of taking out blink on a separate ability. I'd prefer the Dex Pixie and Divata to be a separate ability, sparing the razorwing from draining energy when they're not active.

Depending on how the archwing rework goes, I wouldn't be opposed to having blink as a passive (i.e: Double tap your sprint key to blink).

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2 минуты назад, ixidron92 сказал:

Depending on how the archwing rework goes, I wouldn't be opposed to having blink as a passive (i.e: Double tap your sprint key to blink).

They want to do it on a w+2 shift dodge, but I'd prefer a bunch of shift+space.

I don't think it's worth leaving level 3 of archwing speed as most people can't handle level 2 of speed.

Edited by zhellon
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hace 2 minutos, zhellon dijo:

They want to do it on a w+2 shift dodge, but I'd prefer a bunch of shift+space.

But that's the booster button. w+shift double tap feels more organic, since it would be similar to a Warframe's roll.

I'm pretty sure the archwing rework is next, alongside the railjack expansion and modular archwings, probably in late December. If we follow the usual release date for primes, Ivara should be next in January and then Titania. Although, they swapped Atlas and Wukong this time (Atlas should have been first according to release date) so we can't be so sure. It would make sense they'd release a Titania rework and her prime just after the archwing rework and the space-centric update.

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23 минуты назад, ixidron92 сказал:

But that's the booster button. w+shift double tap feels more organic, since it would be similar to a Warframe's roll.

I'm pretty sure the archwing rework is next, alongside the railjack expansion and modular archwings, probably in late December. If we follow the usual release date for primes, Ivara should be next in January and then Titania. Although, they swapped Atlas and Wukong this time (Atlas should have been first according to release date) so we can't be so sure. It would make sense they'd release a Titania rework and her prime just after the archwing rework and the space-centric update.

And I proceed more from the functionality that is now. At this point, shift gives more speed. shift + space gives even more speed that people don't use or just don't know about. And the problem is, if we have a teleport, we don't need that insane amount of speed. In principle, I am satisfied with both options. The main thing that dodge mechanics did not touch. I don't want to Dodge a rocket by crashing into a nearby asteroid through a teleport. I'm just using inertia mechanics for dodge animations, not a key combination. And sometimes I can make a mistake with the direction.

As I mentioned earlier, it would be great if Titania could equip archwing's wings as abilities. That would solve most of her problems. But this is too difficult to implement. At least it is very difficult to implement the transition from archwing mode and back, because you need to sacrifice either the ability or the mechanics of mobility, like bulletjump. And it would be great if we could use razorwing on archwing missions.

But all of this will be useless if razorwing keeps absorbing tons of energy on its own and blocking weapons. If with weapons the problem can still be survived, then how can I do razorwing form energy management if my energy can't be recovered many ways and has a constant drain? The ability to fly is not a powerful tool. At least I don't think it's much more powerful than wuclone, which costs 25 energy and gives awesome mechanics for the entire mission.

Edited by zhellon
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On 2019-11-03 at 1:34 AM, zhellon said:

The system works fine, if there is a buff, the nearest razor fly gets an order to collect it and executes it. The problem is obstacles. Razorfly are not very smart by themselves. They can attack the wall in an attempt to collect the buff. They just don't have sophisticated AI, they don't know how to predict the way. They go forward, crash into the obstacle, go back 1 second and crash into the obstacle again. This will continue until they find the right way.

I don't think they need to do a rebalance A Just that Titania needs to have the ability to teleport them for proper positioning.

Sorry I have to disagree. I have tested this by standing right next to a tribute, almost touching and even with extra flies, non of them would pick it up.


Maybe sometimes it works, but after about 8 attempts at testing, I just gave up and assumed it was broken.

Edited by TheArcSet
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1 минуту назад, TheArcSet сказал:
Sorry I have to disagree. I have tested this by standing right next to a tribute, almost touching and even with extra flies, non of them would pick it up.

How many did not check, I was not able to get this error. Then I don't know what it might depend on. The only other situation I can describe is when razorfly is too far away. 

In any case, I would prefer that the Tribute was gone. So it's not my problem because I use it very little even though it's a +4 razorfly, because in most situations it will be a +2 maximum since you won't be able to catch the right enemies. I see that grendel has the same problem, which makes it a bad buff frame, although the buffs are good.

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Ability 4:

  • Her key ability. Perfect in all ways but one - it shouldn't despawn your pet.

Ability 3:

  • The better CC. Still seems a bit bugged at times, but overall it's solid. The damage buff was pointless and it really could use a casting range increase so that you don't have to fly so close to enemies.

Ability 2:

  • Literally the worst designed ability in game. Reliant on specific enemies spawns; unreliable; high learning curve ("who grants what"); bad range; delayed activation as you have to kill and gather before it takes effect; some buffs are literally useless (e.g. pet buff when your 4 despawns pets), other just bad; gathering slows you down and limits the freedom in positioning her Razorwing grants Titania; mana costs feel high considering all restrictions.
  • Literally the worst designed ability in game. (Yes, I knew I already said it.)

Ability 1:

  • Redundant as her 3 is a better AoE CC. The status immunity seems unfitting, it'd look better on another ability slot.

 

Some ideas posted in another topic:

Zitat

 - say her ability 1 - could be replaced by something more useful, more synergistic with her 4 AND more fit for her theme (e.g. Razoflies to be send out, reduce enemy armor like Nyx's bolts, but extract either health or mana from dieing enemies in the process in spirit of her current to-be-replaced Tribute concept).

Zitat

Frankly, I'd rather fit status immunity on a reworked 2 than keeping 1 as an ability. It's just odd to bind a defensive bonus like that on an offensive ability. I'd prefer to see her 2 being reworked into a reliable buff and shifting status immunity on top of whatever it is instead of keeping the (arguably) lesser useful CC just for it's unfitting gimmick.

E.g. some kind of ability like:

  • +X armor per Razorfly summoned
  • + status immunity
  • + reloading a part of your magazine per second into your equipped weapon (this bonus is doubled for Dex Pixia)

would be something that could work very nicely with the ability 1 I suggest above while adding a lot to Dex Pixia plus Razorwing as a whole.

 

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