(PC) Grendel & Masseter Feedback

[Genoscythe]

Grendel is held down by these things:

 

1. His feast ability needs to be free movement, it has a very long casting time and severely limits mobility, even with speed drift + natural talent. Additionally, it should be free cast or have a reduced cost if there are no enemies in his stomach. Also, energy should not be drained immediately, but only after 5 or more enemies are absorbed. All his other abilities build on feast, he already takes more energy than any other frame to be able to even cast other abilities.

2. Nourish needs to be a rotation like Ivara's quiver or Vauban's Minelayer. Forcing people to selectively eat certain enemies only if they want one kind of buff is nonsencial.

His 3 is pretty fine, looking forward for the augment.

4. The most ignorable 4th ability ever? Slash dash is superior to this and needs no setup time. Please just remove it and give him something useful, it's a horrible movement ability, a mediocre damage ability and it offers no CC or utility. It doesn't even fit into his kit or synergize with other frames.

[Xepthrichros]

After using him some more, he's almost perfect.

Just make his 4th skill do more damage to compensate for how his mobility is affected. And perhaps make it rewarding for people who attempt to build momentum when rolling around. Like if you go fast enough, it can proc some slash damage as well (like a friction burn).

Make his second skill - those buff icons, make it larger and more obvious which buffs are available and which one is currently selected. He needs a more obvious indicator similar to how Gara, Khora, Saryn, Vauban, Gauss, Ember, Wisp etc. have theirs. 

9/10 would play.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2019-11-16 at 9:05 AM, Genoscythe said:

Grendel is held down by these things:

 

 

2. Nourish needs to be a rotation like Ivara's quiver or Vauban's Minelayer. Forcing people to selectively eat certain enemies only if they want one kind of buff is nonsencial.

 

You can already cycle between the enemies in your tummy to decide which one to eat.  It still shouldn't be like this at all.  It should just give all 3 buffs for consuming one enemy of any type.  Tribute style buffs are bad.

[Jin_Lightning]

Only thing I don't like about Grendel is the way he handles the Nourish buffs. Trying to get all three buffs out is quite annoying, at least for me. Tap, then hold, then tap, then hold, then tap. It's very awkward.

I was thinking we can hold the button, but instead of swapping the buff, this causes Grendel to do the sumo stomp animation, then with the other foot, and finally with the first foot again, letting him bang out every possible buff he can if he has consumed the proper enemies of course.

One...Two...Three.

Other than that, I am really enjoying the frame, except when I need to buff is all.

[EinheriarJudith]

10 hours ago, Jin_Lightning said:

Only thing I don't like about Grendel is the way he handles the Nourish buffs. Trying to get all three buffs out is quite annoying, at least for me. Tap, then hold, then tap, then hold, then tap. It's very awkward.

I was thinking we can hold the button, but instead of swapping the buff, this causes Grendel to do the sumo stomp animation, then with the other foot, and finally with the first foot again, letting him bang out every possible buff he can if he has consumed the proper enemies of course.

One...Two...Three.

Other than that, I am really enjoying the frame, except when I need to buff is all.

there is no reason to not want all 3 buffs so why add extra flair for no reason? since it locks you in place all you're doing is increasing the time you are being shot. tribute buffs are bad. reservoir style buffing is bad too.

Edited November 18, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Zilotz]

Grendel is not so good, it needs some changes in my opinion:

1) First ability should do 50toxin/sec(base) and restore energy to Grendel at rate it drains right now.

2) Second ability should additionally restore health 50%(base) at cast for health buff(to both Grendel and allies in range) and 50 energy(base) for energy buff to allies; 25 energy(base) to Grendel, base duration of current buffs should be tripled, also it should allow stacking all buffs up to 3 times with refreshing duration.

3) Second ability should apply all 3 buffs on hold(for triple cost and if having all 3 types inside, for two types inside just double cost and 2 buffs), no need to switch between enemy types as it is extremely slow and does not match combat speed.

Optionally it can be possible to hold for long time and it will cast all buffs repeatedly(until energy runs out(can happen in 2-3 casts if no Trin around or if not a huge amount of enemies in gut) or no enemies inside or button released).

4) Third should shoot enemies at rate of 2-5/sec on hold.

This way it will be useful to store enemies and to use buffs and it will make Grendel scale if many enemies around BUT not scaling infinitely as enemies will die from toxin over time.

 

[project_eulogy]

Farming this frame is basically forcing you to find a specific squad setup all while offering NO random matchmaking. You were right in saying this frame will be totally different farming.

You absolutely hate your solo players with these missions, so you know what? I won't spend real money on plat ever again, and i'll support anyone who tells new players to just farm plat instead of buying it to support you monetarily. (inb4 "who cares")

There is no fun in these no-mod missions. At all. This is worse than farming the Lich pre-patch. its not about the 75 Vitus needed. Thats super easy. The missions themselves are no fun what-so-ever. Insane Challenges =/= Fun. You have literally stripped away everything that makes Warframe fun. If this game didn't have customization, it would be dead. before you even got off the ground. meanwhile, today.. Ive been searching for almost 2 hours in recruit chat looking for a group. This is just plain aggravating. 

This isn't even a super awesome frame either. One of you got drunk and thought mashing together a Kuva Guardian and a Sumo Wrestler would be cool. Its really not. Not for the effort. A group effort shouldn't be needed to get a sub par frame. I spent 8 hours straight farming Nidus(it was bugged like Octavia parts not dropping) when he first came out and he's a freaking beast that is in my top 5 used frames. Saryn, arguably the strongest frame in the entire game isn't hard at all to farm. Sorry but I just find it stupid to force players into unenjoyable game modes for janky rewards. Welcome to Blizz-Activision status.

Edited November 18, 2019 by project_eulogy
typo

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

Nourish Armor should give extra Armor too, from what i've seen it's not the case.

Exponentially increasing energy drain on Grendel 1st and Ember 2nd needs to go, once at 90% and 175 eff, Ember should drain 2.5 per second all the time not ramp up to the point it's going to drain at a rate of 30-50 en per second, Grendel with max efficiency should drain 0.68 or whatever so 10 enemies should drain 6.8 en per second no more no less.

What the hell is up with this trend, many other frames channeled abilities have a constant energy drain throughout the whole process and at max eff if one goes that route they're an X amount per second. Equinox night form 3rd is affected by numbers of enemies and drain per enemy but it doesn't ramp up to insane amounts like it is for ember 2nd and grendel 1st.

Hysteria suffers a similar condition but we're talking about Invulnerability in that case, not 90% dmg reduction which is very very different, hysteria energy ramp up is more than justified, while a 90% mitigation could use a little tuning, at a certain lvl that 10% can be fatal anyway ( long arbi runs and what not )

The hell ?

Grendel whole kit has its foundations on his first, swallowing many enemies now it's just punishing and handicapping everything else cus of that exponential energy ramp up.

Ember 2nd dictates how much dmg reduction she can have and the dmg of her other abilities...just cus one has to equip zenurik, or exothermic or 1/2 energizes that doesn't mean that exponential energy drain is ok.

Gara, Mesa , Gauss, can cast defensive abilities which are only based on duration and energy modded with efficiency and they all can achieve 90% without any crappy exponential drain.

Edited November 18, 2019 by arm4geddon-117

[AzureTerra]

I feel that the Nourish ability should be a selectable ability like Quiver or Mine layer

[Lulumacia]

 

This warframe has so much potential but some issues makes her very hard to enjoy when we play it.Some of his abilites seems to repeat themselves (1 full puke and 3 puking only one enemy) Others seems to be worthless, and the whole kit is waaaay to much gated on this warframe if you compare with the other ones, and doesn't feel rewarding to play even when played properly.

suggestions:

New passive : autophagie

If grendel tries to use his abilities aside of his 1 while not having a enemy swallowed, the ability will differ slightly and will cost health on cast. This health loss will be unable to be healed and will remain locked until grendel eat a monster (he ate a part of himself).

This change's goal is allowing grendel to use every ability separately ... and not being the only warframe unable to cast his spells but one at first. It'll fluidify a lot his gameplay and... autophagie is a real phenomenon that fits perfectly grendel theme.

 

1 feast : new : overeat: now does not trigger an energy drain until grendel swallowed at least 5 people. The drain remain the same per enemy above 5.

There's two reasons :

1) the energy cost is currently to high and need to be toned down

2) since grendel's 2 can give energy source bonus, being permanently under an energy drain and thus being ineligible to 90% of the energy source 99% of the time makes little sense to me. This change allow him to use most of his skill while not being punished for it.

 

2 nourish : autophagie trigger every buff but only at half power str and duration.

Also i don't think it's wise to make buff dependant on enemy type. Either random or let us chose (ivara's quiver mechanic for example...), being limited by enemy race feel very unpleasant and us having to remember what is the last enemy we ate shouldn't be a thing.

 

3 regurgitate: if no monster is swallowed, grendel puke an acid gastric ball. Dealing Corrosive damage.

 

4 pulverise : some improvement on the mobility is necessary it should be easier to control and not lose momentum so easily, the ball should also start bigger.

Abilities should be available (eating with 1 while in sphere mode would be fun) and damage should be improved. It would be also cool to modify the wall interaction to a system more similar to spire dialanche from metroid (he can roll on any kind of surface.) Instead of clunky jump and bouncing. Just imagine being able to roll on the ceiling!

Edited November 19, 2019 by shikaisenkei

[Peekoh]

Well, Grendel is definitely an extremely fun Warframe to play!  He is in my Top 3 to play without a doubt.  He has good synergy within his kit, mostly due to the reliance of Feast to use his other Abilities.  While he does have good synergy, I do find some things that could need tweaking from my experience.

1. Nourish (Strike) - First off, I greatly enjoy the fact that his three buffs provide the three main areas: DPS, Defense, and Utility.  That being said, the damage provided by the Nourished Strike seems to be negligible.  When testing it in the Simulacrum it did not make a noticeable difference in the speed that I was able to kill a good portion of Grineer units.  The other two buffs make a considerable impact in comparison with lowers the incentive in using this buff.
2. Regurgitate - I will be frank.  I don't see much use in this.  It's extremely fun chucking enemies at each other but I don't think the damage is that considerable.  There is also the fact that I wish to hold in my enemies for the Armor buff.  The intent behind Regurgitate was to help us alleviate the Energy drain but Feast can just puke everyone out while unleashing a deadly Toxin proc.  I need a genuine reason to use it over puking them out.

Overall Grendel is a very fun Warframe to play and will most likely continue to be one of my favorites!  In most games I enjoy playing a more support playstyle or something that can take a hit and currently he is both.

Thanks again!

[Lakyus]

Ok, I got 2 big issues with Grendel right now:

• Nourish buffs are annoying to use. Either make all available buffs be activated at the same time (I'm fine with the energy being increased with the number of buffs), or put an UI to indicate the current selected buff (and if it's available), sort of like Ivara's Quiver or Vauban's Minelayer.
• Pulverize is pointless right now. You can't Devour or Regurgitate while doing it, and the damage is WAY lower than Regurgitate. Not to mention the rolling mechanic is wonky, so it doesn't feel really relevant to be used.

The energy management is still weird, and Rage/Hunter Adrenaline is mandatory, but it's bearable.

Besides the above problems, Grendel feels amazing. Thanks!

[Jin_Lightning]

On 2019-11-18 at 7:51 AM, EinheriarJudith said:

there is no reason to not want all 3 buffs so why add extra flair for no reason? since it locks you in place all you're doing is increasing the time you are being shot. tribute buffs are bad. reservoir style buffing is bad too.

I sort of agree, but don't forget it does heal you as well. I just find the current method of his buff application very clunky.

[EinheriarJudith]

39 minutes ago, Jin_Lightning said:

I sort of agree, but don't forget it does heal you as well. I just find the current method of his buff application very clunky.

no arguments there it is very clunky.

[(PSN)Thaumist]

Feast: a great CC and dps ability, the energy drain though is very crippling, 175 efficiency is the only way for the ability to feel less energy devouring, needs some kind of buffer to help store some enemies for his 2nd ability without vomiting them all out

...

Norish: its fine for a supportive ability but could use some buffs to feel more "impactful"

Norish energy- Grendel and allies gain passive energy regen, probably regenerate around the same amount as energy siphone

Norish armor- retaliation toxic proc from nourish armor has a 75% chance to stack its damage with each hit

Nourish strike- (note: I'm not sure if this increases Pulverises damage, if it doesn't, It would be a great buff if this ability greatly increased its damage)

Possible synergy: activating nourish pauses feasts energy drain for 5 seconds. This will allow Grendel to sustain a large amount of enemies to gain all his buffs from and avoid loosing all his energy during the process

HUD improvements: Grendel can cycle enemies in his gut by holding down the button, though the chosen icon is hard too see behind the duration timer. Haveing a ability HUD like vauban and Ivara would fix this issus

Additional suggestion: allow nourish to cause a quick radial stagger when Grendel stomps the ground, the quick CC would be very convenient when refreshing your buffs during a fight

...

Regurgitate: this ability would be great if the blast radius was heavily increased, currently i only use the ability when I have to many enemies in my gut and want to tone down the energy drain without loosing them all

Suggestion: heavily increase range, and enemies who survive being regurgitated leave a large noxious aura around them that deals constant toxic damage to surrounding enemies. Toxic damage stacks with each aura on an enemy

Additional notes: regurgitate is how it is because it has 0 energy cost. with these buffs, a small 15 energy cost would be pretty fair for the ability

...

Pulverize: this ability is fun, but needs just one little bit of synergy to be affective

Suggestion: the energy drain of feast is reduced by half while in pulverise, activating feast while in pulverize will devour all enemies in a small radius. This will allow Grendel to sustain pulverizes damage while also increase it along with his size

...

How have you been enjoying Grendel? I've got about 5 forma on him already and I'm excited to play around with some more builds. He's so fun to use Imo. If you have any thoughts, please share them

[JefTheReaper]

Grendel causes some problems when eating A Dargyn.

First problem is he can eat the Dargyn itself (and nourish/use it as a projectile) It is treated like a enemy rather then a vehicle.

The second problem is that when you manage to only devour the pilot of the Dargyn, the Dargyn itself will keep on flying and shooting as if the pilot was still in there, only stopping after you kill the pilot (either by spitting them back out, or nourishing on them)

[AntiMase]

Grendel needs to be able to use nourish once and receive all possible buffs from enemies in his stomach and his nourished strike toxin buff either needs to not combine with single elements ruining fire procs or just change it to a gas buff so you still deal toxin dot with it but you don't ruin single elements. Love grendel btw

[shootaman777]

Grendel feedback: 

His abilities are very fun. 
-His passive is great, though it is severely hampered by the same problem that Oberon's Renewal faces - affecting more targets with the ability severely ramps up energy drain, energy cannot be replenished during the ability usage other than by energy orbs/consumables/Rage/HM, and he can't take damage for Rage/HM if he eats the enemies that could damage him. 
-His first ability is golden bread and butter.  If only the energy drain per second for keeping enemies inside wasn't as bad as it is, even with max efficiency. 
-His second ability is his worst in terms of functionality/utility, yet his most lethal.  The buffs are lackluster and the enemies consumed by it seem to not give drops or affinity, so it becomes a 'I need healing' button.  The instakill part of it has some decent utility in endlessly scaling content, however. 
-His third ability is fairly solid and straightforward.  It's a fired AoE projectile.  You can chamber your Grendel in Grineer, Corpus, or Infested, providing some nice variety. 
-His fourth ability is decent in damage, but the mobility leaves something to be desired.  Perhaps allowing sprint speed/friction+slide mods to increase mobility would make it feel better to use.
-He does not need any forma to function at near-max capability, which is okay, but means that it is hard to find a reason to use him long enough to find a reason to keep using him. 

Masseter feedback: 

-Heavy blades feel terrible (the stances are horrific, save for the semi-alright Cleaving Whirlwind) in this updated iteration of melee, but the Masseter is decent as heavy blades go, in terms of functionality. 
-I have not noticed any benefits from the bonus of using the Masseter with Grendel, so to me the bonus is useless. 

 

Grendel missions feedback: 

These were GREAT AND THOROUGHLY ENJOYABLE MISSIONS, in my opinion.  I did all the missions twice, because I enjoyed them that much. 
-Not having all these alternative options such as gear/operator mode/mods to make teammates/squad roles irrelevant, brings back the usefulness of an organised squad that existed in the past when mod choice was limited (when the game was relatively new and not many mods existed), back in 2013-2015-ish.  It was amazing to see Warframes have a role in a squad and have the RPG aspect of this game return, as opposed to the bland 'spam ALL the nukes!!!' that 99.9% of Warframe now is. 
-Leaving ability augments functioning as-is was generous and probably a good move to allow Warframe variety in these missions, though taking away melee stances was a bit much.  Melee in the current iteration is incredibly dull without stances, after all. 

An idea to create this type of limited-build mission, I already suggested... way back when in update 18.13 (the Tenno nerf nuke, Mirage's wallhax blind/Trinity's 99% DR Blessing/RIP Valkyr's Hysteria/Mesa's Peacemaker nerf/Volt was changed iirc?) feedback, when the question of 'difficulty in Warframe' was being considered. 
-Mods used to have a 'Conclave Rating', and to do starchart conclave on certain planets/certain tactical alerts (IIRC (if I recall correctly), the one that introduced Nullifiers had this mechanic), the player's current build could not have a Conclave value exceeding a certain total. 
-Using that Conclave total, and Riven Disposition mechanics (nerfing mods for particular weapons based on their usage stats) altered to nerf certain mods with high usage (corrupted mods for Warframes, etc), a new gamemode could be introduced similar to Sanctuary Onslaught (or hell, even an expansion of it.  SO was intended to be a stress-test for players' nuking capabilities before it was turned into an average mission after desired data was acquired.  Maybe we can have another Sanctuary mission mode to stress-test non-meta builds that require teammates, if DE wants to bring back a place where this game is a RPG).  In other words, in this gamemode, the more used mods would have a higher Conclave drain and slightly reduced stats, less-used mods would have either normal or slightly increased stats with low Conclave drain, and builds would not be able to exceed the Conclave cap PER LOADOUT ITEM (so the player can't put no mods on primary/secondary, but full builds on Warframe and melee to cheese the gamemode, for instance). 

I think the two main points that people made about the Grendel missions that they disliked, was how everything they grinded out was worthless here, invalidating their time/effort spent grinding those things, and that the missions were relatively long (and probably felt longer due to suddenly having the crutch kicked out from under them then being told to try to run a few kilometers, which is hard if you are on crutches and then suddenly do not have them (to say the least)).  I think a gamemode that compromises on gear like the one I described, and that is relatively shorter, would do well. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by shootaman777
Added the bit about the Grendel/Masseter bonus, then his build

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

Grendel Feedback:

I was super excited for Grendel but I really do not like his kit as is.  

1. only eats what you put crosshairs over??  This should be a 180 degree pull of all enemies in front of grendel out to X range.   I understand he is destroying armor of the things in his belly so thats why there is energy drain but that is not helping his kit.   

2.  Being a buff and health restore.  Not sure if the people in range also get healed.   My only thought on this ability is the base duration really sucks.  Unless you are building around the buff exclusively then your probably gonna sacrifice duration to get more range or strength.  Which makes the buffs pretty worthless as they are to short.   The healing I wish like consumed all the health of an enemy in the stomach.. I have 3.5k health and only get like 200-300hp per stomp.  

3. This is worthless.  If you fighting are fighting anything over lv30 this isnt going to do jack.  What it should do is cause a massive AoE status field(15 meters base) wherever it hits, that last for x duration.  Corrosive element so it eats armor ?? Does corrosive still do that if fire does that ??  Then I would make sure to constantly use this power.  

4.  This would have been alot better if it ate people as it rolled... At 160% strength its pretty lackluster in damage.  While your rolling around, hopping around your barely killing anything.  Grendel really really sucks at defending anything.   So in that regard I think it should have like a 10 meter base stun effect on enemies so as your bouncing/rolling around having fun trying to kill stuff anything else nearby would get stunned and NOT be destroying the objective.   Enemies would be dumb struck with curiosity, fear, bewilderment as your doing your thing and meanwhile the rest of your squad can be murdering them all.     OR it should absorb enemies within 1-2 meters.

Mass Absorb/Ball absorb would make Grendel play ALOT better and as intended.   You would gobble up tons of enemies using whatever method and then you could vomit them onto the ground and nuke the pile with weapons.  Kind of like Nidus only alot more fun.   

(If grendel cant eat he cant really do any of his abilities.  I think his ball shoud run off energy.   And then allow 1 or 4(if it absorbs) to replenish your energy.   It feels pretty lame to have full energy and not be able to do anything if nothing is around)

---------------------

Edit*   So I do the spinning engulf thing to suck up multiple enemies.  I've been looking in the wrong place so I dont know what I have maxed out at... but....I notice the more people you eat the bigger your ball is... and I notice the bigger the ball the more damage you do and the bigger the area.  I was at Saturn-Helene defense map and with about 5 guys in my belly I was a medium to large size ball.  My bouncing around had killer range and was doing tons of damage it was awesome.   It would be nice to know how many enemies it takes to reach different thresholds, but especially max range/damage.

PS: I was a medium to large size ball this one time and I ran out of energy and so he tried to revert back to his original shape but he was all mutated lol.  I couldnt tell him butt from his face from his arm.   He stayed like that and was inhaling in wierd directions lol.  But I sucked up some guys and cast pulverize again and then turned it off and he went back to normal...  I've only seen that happen once lol.  

Edited November 24, 2019 by (PS4)AbBaNdOn_

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Grendel doesn’t have his unique particle effects for when he inhales enemies on console

Edited November 25, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

When in Pulverize, if Grendel hits a ledge it triggers the ledge climbing animation and it locks the players out of being able to do anything in pulverize except move until the energy runs out and you get teleported to that ledge the game thinks you were trying to climb.

Edited November 25, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Ocerkin]

the silence from DE on grendel is really concerning, are they not going to address the massive energy drain? or the issues with the buffs with his 2? kinda worrying that he might end up stuck as mr fodder for a few years

[Ikusias]

3 hours ago, Ocerkin said:

the silence from DE on grendel is really concerning, are they not going to address the massive energy drain? or the issues with the buffs with his 2? kinda worrying that he might end up stuck as mr fodder for a few years

Just think of what Titania suffered at DE hands, with necessary day 1 fixes done only now...

[EinheriarJudith]

i think with the grendel missions they could have done "all mods are rank 0". that would have been a bit better than no mods. i platted him so i feel bad for anyone who played through them, hated them, and then found that grendel is lack luster (because he is imo).

[(PSN)yikesitsthatguy]

For Nourish Indicate which buffs are available and if available allow you to cycle through them how wisp does therefore making the ability much more easier to use