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(PC) Grendel & Masseter Feedback

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2 hours ago, Hekkatos said:

an alternative to the current nourish could be this: instead of basing it on enemy type just let us be able to cycle through the buffs like we do with wisp motes. make one a health restore, one a damage bonus, and one a status aoe. make the number of enemies consumed affect the strength of the bonus. tap to cycle and hold to consume. the longer you hold it the more enemies are consumed.

Or at least increase the buff and damage the dealt to the enemies currently eaten.

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Grendel is fun and strong, his builds are all very tight mod wise, but we can make a do i guess...

Masseter goes a bit to the weak side, because of the damage tipe and crit multiplier, i think crit mult for the masseter should be a bit higher, 2.4 like scindo prime sounds right, but this is a regular weapon, so i gues it is as it should be(?)... 

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On 2019-11-27 at 4:07 AM, Shadedraxe said:

We’re no longer in the old blood update, it’s been nearly a month, and I’m starting to get worried that we won’t be seeing any changes to grendel’s aggressive energy drain and nourish’s poor visual feedback.

Really love the guy, but boy do those two things still bother me when I play grendel.

To be fair, it was at least a month and some weeks before Gauss’ changes went public 

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23 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Can we do the same for Valkyr too? All the shields do is get in the way of hunter adrenaline. 

It's not a popular build, but they're needed for Paralysis.

  • Upvote 2

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11 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Grendel has a shield value to benefit from overshield (1200)... which Nidus and Inaros can't have

and how exactly are overshields gonna help him when he cant generate said overshields himself?

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Figured i'd leave my feedback here despite it saying PC just because the update has hit console and been out for a bit now.  Overall I like how he is but he's a bit rough around the edges.

Energy:  It's been mentioned a lot by most that the climbing drain via having enemies inside him is a problem.  While I personally don't struggle with energy as much as it sounds like for others I do think something can/should be done.  At the very least it's forcing people to expel enemies in fear of losing energy rather than using enemies to positively effect Grendel.

Suggestions: expelling an enemy/enemy killed inside grendel/Nourish used resets or pauses the energy drain (in the case of the latter only temp).

Nourish:  Easily my biggest complaint of his kit.  We essentially have tribute style buffs on top of a "quiver style" function.  This makes the ability just feel annoying to interact with nevermind the actual buffs (aside from the energy one) being generally underwhelming.  The heal itself is rather poor at base as well.

Suggestions: Buff base heal by a fair amount.  Require # of enemies to have access to buffs.  Having 1 enemy gives you the first buff.  two enemies gives you the first and second buff.  3 enemies gives you all 3 buffs.  Having more enemies beyond that will buff the effectiveness of said buffs.  Buff base ability duration by a bit.  Nourish armor changed effect from leaking toxin damage will be changed to stunning the enemy briefly.  This works as this buff already has a short range and a cooldown.  Nourish strike Should be changed to corrosive damage instead.

Regurgitate: I quite like this ability but it lacks oomph.  it needs to do a bit more imo.

Suggestions: Hitting an enemy directly will cause a splash CC that ragdolls the enemies near impact.  Damage of ability should scale with enemy level. The toxin splash should linger for a few seconds at a static time.

pulverize:  Next to no complaints with the ability.  I would like to add an extra synergy with it.

Suggestions:  Using regurgitate in pulverize will shoot Grendel in the direction he is currently moving whilst expelling the enemy out of him. (not moving will shoot him up.  Can press melee to slam down if in air.)

Feast:  Next to no complaints here as well.  Just some polishing.

Suggestions:  consume the enemy faster.  It can be difficult to steal an enemy in certain group compositions.

 

Overall Grendel is as enjoyable for me to play as I thought he would be.  I'm excited to see what else DE might do with him.

Edited by (XB1)Knight Raime
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That energy drain on Grendel is something fierce and thus far I see no reason to use any ability besides feast. I eat until I vomit then I just hit them with my melee; and then eat them again until they die. I'm guessing the energy drain was so we don't just go and the whole map but that is exactly what I'm doing. 
I feel the energy drain could have been circumvented by limiting feast to only be activated when his consumption counter is zero. Honestly Grendel could have benefitted with a only meter mechanic since his abilities need him to consume enemies, and like Hildryn, Grendel wouldn't use energy for any of his abilities with a full meter gives an armor buff or max health buff.
 

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1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

pulverize:  Next to no complaints with the ability.  I would like to add an extra synergy with it.

Suggestions:  Using regurgitate in pulverize will shoot Grendel in the direction he is currently moving whilst expelling the enemy out of him. (not moving will shoot him up.  Can press melee to slam down if in air.)

Feast:  Next to no complaints here as well.  Just some polishing.

Suggestions:  consume the enemy faster.  It can be difficult to steal an enemy in certain group compositions.

I like that idea of an acceleration in the direction he is travelling.
I'd make then invulnerable while affected by feast to stop them being wiped out by nuke frames

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53 minutes ago, Hekkatos said:

I like that idea of an acceleration in the direction he is travelling.
I'd make then invulnerable while affected by feast to stop them being wiped out by nuke frames

Problem with that I think is having to constantly change their state since they're supposed to take damage when inside him. And the inside him state is probably flagged as the same state when the enemies are not inside you to some degree. 

It might be possible to do but I think coding that is potentially a nightmare. It would probably be easier to just have the consume effect be sped up. But I'm no code wizard. 

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8 hours ago, TKDancer said:

and how exactly are overshields gonna help him when he cant generate said overshields himself?

I'll give you a secret : you can play this game with other players...

 

I'm not saying that it's good or bad, I'm just saying that small shield values allow overshields.

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I'm glad that I'm not the only one with an issue with his energy consumption. While I understand why you would have it increase the more you eat, it kind of destroys his kit to do so. His abilities (minus Feast of course) require you to consume enemies, and to have that it requires energy. The abilities require a hefty amount of energy as well. By the time you can use any of his kit with any reliability, you've used up most of his energy. Makes him non-reliable in most instances. If the abilities did more than what they do, maybe I could see the worth of high energy drain, but they don't, so it feels like too much for too little. Maybe set the drain into stacks of five or so, instead of every single enemy adding to the drain.

Edited by (PS4)Gorbihn

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8 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I'll give you a secret : you can play this game with other players...

 

I'm not saying that it's good or bad, I'm just saying that small shield values allow overshields.

They still have little to no value for him, with his lack of shield-affecting DR and ability to replenish his health at will. The sole exception is Hildryn, since she can share her shield gating passive via Haven, but should one ability of a single frame out fourty two justify the existence of an attribute that is useless at best and annoying at worst? I think not.

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46 минут назад, vFlitz сказал:
They still have little to no value for him, with his lack of shield-affecting DR and ability to replenish his health at will. The sole exception is Hildryn, since she can share her shield gating passive via Haven, but should one ability of a single frame out fourty two justify the existence of an attribute that is useless at best and annoying at worst? I think not.

Shields are not needed. If I want to impose my Haven on Inaros, I call shield osprey.

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10 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I'll give you a secret : you can play this game with other players...

and i'll give you one: i have zero control of what frames other people use and the number of frames that can provide other players with overshields is the same as the number of fingers in my right hand

mag, volt(with augment), hildryn... maybe revenant?... trinity(with augment)?
damn, you sure got me

Edited by TKDancer

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I already posted in this thread but what if, when you Nourish, your buff stacks for each type of that enemy? For example, you eat three ranged enemies and when you Nourish, it multiplies the buff by 3x? Of course it can be brought down to 0.5x per additional enemy or something. The buffs are lacking to me and I think this has potential.

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Warframes are characterized by multiclass combinations.

Tank
Damage
Healer
Defense
Defender
Stealth
Buffer
Debuffer
Controller
Farm

Grendel relate to - Tank, Buffer, Controller. But it only works like a tank and that’s it.

At the moment, Grendel is not needed on than one type of mission.

! It has shields of 25 units. Because of this, he can not pass the hijack mission. shields should be 0

0. PASSIVE: 

Each enemy consumed grants 2 HP per second. (This will help him to fulfill the class of a tank.)

1. FEAST:

This ability is similar to the Undertow Hydroid ability. But it works very poorly.

The use of a large number of enemies should not exceed energy consumption, but should reduce mobility.   (This is more logical.)

Also, dealing allied damage damages enemies inside the grendel using the Undertow ability as an example. A killed enemy gives healing to allies in a same radius. (This will give Grendel another class as a healer.)

2. NOURISH and REGURGITATE:

NOURISH and REGURGITATE can be combined into one ability. A simple keystroke activates REGURGITATE
Clamping activates NOURISH.

Buffs depending on the type of enemy are difficult to implement. It is better to do everything at once or in turn.

 

3. NEW ability:

 Eats the enemy and in the middle radial acceleration and forces enemies to attack the grendel in melee. (This will enhance his class as controller.)

 In the same radius, heals allies. (This will give Grendel another class as a healer.)

4. PULVERIZE:

All three abilities must work during PULVERIZE.

Also, the decrease in mobility from the FEAST ability should be disconnected while PULVERIZE is running.

PULVERIZE increases in size when eating enemies NOURISH. (This will help him to fulfill the role of a Defense. Grendel can protect different objects with its large body.)

PULVERIZE spends energy over a distance.

 

Thus, his class Tank, Buffer, Controller are strengthened and a new Healer is added.

Grendel will be in demand on missions Survival, Excavation, Defense, Hijack, Interception, Mobile Defense, Arbitration.

 

Edited by CEXMET86

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Grendel seems to still be lacking his special particle effect when eating enemies on xbox one and ps4 after the new update on console. Its still replaced by a more generic looking bile colored particle effect.

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Fix this for solo players, the levels are insane. I equate to lvl maybe 5-6 and have to play against multiple players at lvl 30-40-50 .. that's not a challenge, its a frustration plain and simple. I don't think I will ever get this frame, regardless of what frame I use to try and win out the challenge, nor will I be buying it. Sorry, you lost out on this one.

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The missions to acquire Grendel are just painfully dull. The concept sounds interesting on paper, but it's evident nobody bothered playtesting this because it only takes 3 seconds of plugging lvl40+ enemies for pissall damage to realise you're in for a long and boring slog to get the part.

It's not fun. It's not challenging. It's frustrating and lazy. Honestly the hardest part with the missions is resisting the urge to alt F4 and go do literally anything else with your time. In fact, that's exactly what I did, and what I'm doing right now.

Gods help future Tenno trying to find a group for this.

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Nourish: It would be nice to have a UI like Vauban's when switching between the buffs, right now while Nourish's timer is active you can barely make out the buff you'll receive because of the timer in front of the ability icon

Pulverise: Sometimes while rolling around I would become unable to jump and unable to deactivate the ability, causing me to wait until all my energy is used up, ocasionally the "/unstuck" command helps but not always. This happened at least 5 times times so far. It also seems that Grendel loses all his momentum when he slams the ground when at high speed or falling from a high place (not confirmed). Seems like the momentum stop is because of an animation a warframe would usually have when falling from a high place?

Sorry in advance if these things were already pointed out.

Edited by 1Ruinmaster1
Additional findings

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Grendel feedback

when i play Grendel i miss the opportunity to heal my squad mates
i would like to see Grendel eat loot like a big vacuum 

Edited by DonOctavia

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Grendel is a solid frame, but there is 1 ability that is pretty lacking and that ability is Regurgitate. In high level grineer missions (level 80) the ability deals measly damage to grunts even with scaling damage and Feast’s vomit deals a lot more damage than regurgitate which makes this ability useless for damage over feast’s vomit.

I suggest regurgitate deals guaranteed toxin proc on hit and the enemy projectile leave a trail of toxic puddle for a few seconds to make the ability worth to use.

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Obtaining the frame:

This is a severe disappointment.  You've got to grind up the gear to run arbitrations.  You have to grind enough to earn sufficient amounts of essence.  You then have to either setup a team or purchase all of the beacons.  All of this implies that the frame should be decent, given all of that build-up.  We then get to run the missions.  Congratulations, instead of a challenge to reward you everything is returned to day 1.  No operator, terrifyingly bad enemy scaling issues, and no mods.  This was bad, what made it worse was zero indication on day one that this would be the case.

You've learned that a 100% drop chance is appreciated instead of a pointless grind, then forgot that the beginning of the game is the worst part of it.  This is all capped by needlessly long missions, that mean there is absolutely no reason to come back after finishing this frame once.  That's really the worst kind of mission, where you actively never want to run it again.

 

Grendel's Powers as a Whole:

I'd suggest this is a mixed bag.  The obvious overarching statement here is that energy drain, even with boosted duration and 160% efficiency, makes it difficult to like the power set.  It's frustrating to do something like ESO or SO, and discover that you can't use the durability of enemies to your advantage because you have no access to the insane energy that is required.  Likewise, your overall power set cripples low level play and SO/ESO.  To regurgitate enemies if too many are eaten is a power, for those aware of the system that means you can only purge an eaten enemy once every 10 seconds before the power is locked.  That's right, if you scarf down 5-6 enemies it'll be a literal minute before you can deal with them and by which time you'll likely be out of energy.

Grendel's Stats:

Chunky frame has good health and armor....makes sense.  The issue is that he has nominal shields that amount to nothing at high levels.  I'll suggest that this entirely removes the frame from running Hijack missions.  Your shield drains so quickly that it isn't funny, and on the other end you've got nothing to add to the group if there's a nullifier field because those eaten enemies and the bonuses disappear while all those enemies are spawned right on top of the objective.  The only game modes where Grendel shines are where there are a ton of enemies, either Grineer or infested.  The lore is that Grendel laid waste to the Corpus, and even a hint of a nullification field makes him useless.  Please entirely remove the shields, give us some more armor, and either boost energy or make the efficiency higher.  Otherwise, Grendel just isn't worth using regularly.

Grendel's Powers:

1) Viable.  Eating enemies is OK, though the nutty idea to turn everything into a gigantic particle field swirl is baffling.  This is the only time that I have ever seen an enemy stun blocked by a power (tried this with a heavy gunner mid stun), and is a nice change of pace from vaporizing an enemy with radiation at the start of a stun animation, but still somehow being caught in the blast.  The problem I run into with this is that it should be integrated with his third power.  If you can eat 5-6 enemies in one go you'd better plan on how you'll deal with the mob being force spawned back around you when your power runs out.  My recommendation is that 1 sucks enemies in when held.  When 1 is tapped, and assuming there are enemies, they get spat out.  You can develop an ability mod later that causes a spat-up enemy to return at 20-40-60-80% health with a corresponding chance of a toxic and slash proc (higher levels returning stronger enemies, but that status increase would be the trade-off mechanic that makes this better than a power which should be integrated by default).

2) Kavat powers are great, but the lack of reliability is a big issue.  Nourish does nothing to fix it, other than there being no down-time between casting.  If that's your thing it's OK, but I personally find the system of random bonuses means I cannot count on them.  Perhaps If this could be altered to consume enemies each time, the buffs would be on a set rotation, and we could stack them it'd be worth it.  To balance out such a powerful stack you could introduce a debuff on energy efficiency.  This seems like undoing the request above to be more efficient, but it'll effectively force players to balance their team role out.  Build for efficiency and carry around enemies to tank, or become a support that is durable but not Inaros level immortal.  Either role gives Grendel a unique build and play style, which makes him more viable as a specialist the player builds.

3) Replace me.  This needs to be integrated into his first power.  Considering the Grendel model is already hugely janky because of the size (just review the clipping of almost every held item), let's look at something akin to a flying slam.  This could create a shockwave, paralyzing enemies for a short time and allowing you to eat them or simply kill them.  Grendel definitely needs a simple power that isn't tied to anything else, but can work as a control.  Right now the frame is just demonstrating all of the worst sponginess of other enemies, and what isn't RNG is painfully short due to the mechanics.

4) Fine.  Just fine.  The meatball drains too fast to be fun, but when it's working it's Super Monkey Ball levels of fun jank.  It needs power, doesn't do damage, and makes you a target so it's functionally the same as everything else.

 

The Masseter

I got a riven for this things, and immediately used it with a transmuter.  Somebody spent some time on the animation, but it isn't fun to use.  I just think that the time spent on an animation for this thing to fold up, un-fold, and spin endlessly would have been better used to clean-up the collisions on the Grendel model.  If you gave us a gigantic two pronged sword, intended to mimic a large fork, it'd have been thematically as on as a crank-shaft for a big rolling meatball. 

The weapon itself just isn't great, and the un-official second item being a Vasca Kavat largely renders this an item best forgotten.  It's a shame, but no inherently offensive.

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