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(PC) Grendel & Masseter Feedback

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40 minutes ago, Zexicon said:

I really like Grendel's kit as a whole . However,

Nourish in it's current form is very difficult to swap between the buffs, it's difficult for me to tell the difference between the icons and the duration timer covers up most of the icon

I'd like it if nourish would apply all applicable buffs instead of having to swap between the 3 and recasting 

We need some Pablo UI magic here. Praise the cat dad!

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With a little rearranging, Grendel's kit can be further streamlined and (I feel) improved.
1. Feast:

  • Pressing the button- Unchanged. Sucks in enemies like it currently does.
  • Holding the button- Does what Nourish currently does. Digests enemies for buffs, can even have us hold the button longer to cast all three buffs at once for additional energy.

2. New ability.

3. Regurgitate:

  • Pressing the button- Unchanged. Spits an enemy out as a projectile.
  • Holding the button- Releases all currently stored enemies (the current held button functionality for Feast).

4.Either I need more practice (which is totally possible) or Grendel needs to stop drinking before he decides to roll. He handles weird in a game where the movement is typically nice.

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I thought in the stream you said that Grendel's missions would drop the fully-built Grendel parts, not blueprints, as a nod to their difficulty. They were certainly difficult, but we got blueprints as a reward. Why was this changed?

People have been begging for difficult content with rewards to match for years. Three days of Arbitration grinding plus three grueling modless missions is certainly a greater challenge than farming most other Warframes, yet the rewards were the same.

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I know "the vocal minority is the loudest" but all of this sounds absolutely awful. I'm a console player so I'll reserve judgement until we get the update but it just seems like such a blatant cashgrab. You're already locking common frames behind endgame content (Khora with ESO, Hildryn orb mother, now Grendel with arbis) if that's not bad enough you're throwing in a "challenge" that strips endgame level players of all the gear they've spent 1000's of hours acquiring?

I saved up 100 vitus essence (we only get 1 per rotation on console, so that's 1,000 minutes minutes or roughly 17 hours) to unlock grendel and now it sounds like I'm in for another grind on top of that? Who comes up with this stuff?

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it's a fun frame but the 2 buff could stand ot be more.. visible for which mode ur on maybe somethin like what khora has for her venari or wisp for her motes for better visibility on which thing ur on

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grendels kits is a bit boring and kind of annoying to me.

  • same resource split as Nidus (this is probably the only thing i like in his kit)
  • Feast is like inaros's Devour only its kind of AoE with the same marking system as Ash's bladestorm, and drains WAY too much energy.
  • Pulverize has trouble with slopes (i legit couldnt roll up a ramp in grineer galleon) and is clunky to use because its slow very weird movement.
  • Nourish seems to work just like Tribute (this is terrible).
  • i wouldnt have any issue using Regurgitate if Feast didnt cost so much energy.

Feast needs to have its energy channel removed since it already costs energy to use and can take a enemy cap to balance. its like if nidus had energy drain based on stacks. its silly. Pulverize needs better faster movement and controls (sad that samus feels better to control in ball form in metroid prime compared to this), and nourish needs to either require eating three enemies for all buffs or eating one enemy gives all 3 buffs.

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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Acquiring Grendel.

So the "challenge" here is to pretend that you're are MR0 Tenno trying to survive for 20 minutes in a lvl 40+ mission or basically "naked"? Or is the challenge here to not get pissed off by the lack of mods to a point where you're just gonna buy Grendel and be done with the bs?
And also I guess the intend is to play with others, right? In other words, a big FU to solo players?

Taking away everything a player has worked for is not a challenge. It's just saying FU.

"and only those who are truly ‘empty’ will earn his pieces" I'm dead inside, does that count?

[in the distance: someone can be heard typing "gid gud" with malicious intend]

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Can we get the ability to devour corpses? In group missions it is annoying when you try to get to an enemy to devour it only to have it shot dead by an ally before you are in range.

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this grendel farming mechanism is ridiculous.. i hate it so much..

no mods, no gear, etc etc..
seriously? it's just a warframe.. not even prime warframe.. and not even a good warframe..
and is it also RNG for a chance to get the parts?
come on dudes..
 

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56 minutes ago, Garrasur said:

Can we get the ability to devour corpses? In group missions it is annoying when you try to get to an enemy to devour it only to have it shot dead by an ally before you are in range.

this wont help as anyone playing nekros will delete corpses before you can even devour them.

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i would also move Feasts hold function to Regurgitate making its press vomit all enemies rather than 1.

Edited by EinheriarJudith

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There appears to be a lot of syndanas that phase through grendel, some ones I found being the vanquished and despot  in general most syndanas that are more cape like just seem to have that effect, Atlas prime syndana doesn't for some reason.

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Grendel's third ability is very lack luster in it's current form, I believe the ability could have greater utility and usage if it left a damaging AOE toxic cloud on impact. 

In regards to Pulverize. This ability is cool, I like the idea of rolling around as a physics based ball. I think the ability could be a lot more interesting by having the first 3 abilities change while pulverize is active . A lot of users say pulverize has very poor mobility so you could make it so that casting regurgitate while pulverize is active will violently shoot out an enemy stored in your stomach behind you propelling the ball forward and increasing damage , this would make pulverize much more interactive and I think would be a much more fun version of it's current form , Thanks!

 

Edited by Zexicon
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Everything about this mission sucks.  Seriously not fun or engaging.  Going to do other stuff until DE goes back to the drawing board for this one.  Making it tough and challenging is awesome... but what they have done here is just not fun at all.  I would say they over designed it.

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I don't like the missions.

Their design suggests that nothing we farm and grind for has any worth and will be taken away. I don't like this feeling.

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Grendel at interview for a job:

Spoiler


HR: What can you do?

Grendel: Grendel eats, Grendel vomits, Grendel rolls.

HR: In what can you be useful for the team?

Grendel: Grendel digests! OOOOOMMMMYUUUUUUUMMMMM! *vomits several butchers on the table*

              Sorry, had no energy to contain them anymore!

HR: 😨😰 W-we will call you later.... *possibly after rework*

 

 

And if seriously - i do not see in what Grendel can be useful:

His 1 does not take some units and has gigantic drain(and after some time drain gets extremely huge).

His 2 does not even give back energy.

His 3 and 4 deal very few damage.

Yeah, he is tanky but other tanky frames bring something to the team unlike Grendel.

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Whew. Here we go, again; 

Passive: needs a buff.

Feast: over time energy drain needs to go. This doesn't show on the tool tip how much the energy drain is multiplied per second. This defeats the purpose of his Passive. Also, shouldn't he get some type of HP regen while the mobs are inside?

Nourish: is decent, but I rather have all 3 buffs active on one chew. The health received should be increased, and he should be able to one shot mobs inside to consume buffs/health/Regen (If possible), and a new buff should be added for Health Regeneration.

Regurgitate: damage is very weak, and it didn't do a good AoE splash as presented on the video, unless its bugged.

Pulverize: damage to enemies 40+ is weak unmodded. I'm not a fan of the knock back impact and I don't think this ability scales, does it? I don't like the fact that when I hit a mob rolling, I get knock back as well. I found this quite annoying, especially considering its controlling nature. 

 

Suggested Changes

Passive:

His Passive isn't really a passive when you're already lacking energy sufficiency overtime with just 1 mob inside (50 Armor). How would gaining armor help if two or more mobs inside are burning through his energy overtime exposing him to no energy, becoming very squishy, and unable to use the rest of his kit effectively. Nourished Energy doesn't even work well, even with Rage or Hunter Adrenaline added. To add off, you still have to find said mob in order to even gain the Nourished Energy buff. To help maximize his passive, I suggest a stacking armor buff (50 per stack) from 1-10 or 1-15 for "an" enemy (doesn't increase with more enemies) inside and as long as that enemy or as long as an enemy is inside his belly the buff remains and has a 15 second timer when no enemy is left, and refreshes if you feast while there is still time left. Also, upon different types of enemies consumed, Grendel gains a Food buff that allows him to modify consumed enemies to that specific weakened type of status; For Example Viral for Infested, Corrosive for shields, Magnetic, etc. This will allow Grendel to be versatile to all types of mobs.

Feast:

Feast at the moment is HIGHLY broken making Grendel limited to kit usage, because of the overtime energy drain from a mob(s) inside his belly for "x" amount of time or "x" amount of mobs stored. I suggest taking away the punishing energy drain and have the ability drain energy by default of 1.5 with any amount of mobs inside his belly (fixed with Efficiency down to the lowest .38 energy per second) and not have "x" amount of mobs or time effect that/the drain. I leave one Mob in my belly for keep sake and it takes me down to zero with a .38 Drain/Second. That's ridiculous. This makes his gameplay more punishing then enjoyable. For example: I go into a mission and only grab one mob, since the energy drain overtime is viscous, and consume that mobs' buff. I'm unwilling to search for a range or melee, because most waves have more ranged than melee, also depends on the mission type, therefore, it limits which buffs I can use for that current situation. After receiving that buff I would grab another mob and keep it inside, because, as I wrote above, more mobs are punishing. I would have to choose to use it to refresh a random or said Nourish buff, or choose out of the two lacking damage abilities to help clear mobs. 

Nourish:

The current design of Nourish is punishing. To find an enemy that works around the consumed buff limits Grendels' Nourish ability and its potential. I suggest when he consumes an enemy (1 shot 1 kill)  all buffs become active. The search bar is too small to find and swap to a certain buff, and, as I wrote above, trying to find said enemy for a specific buff is punishing, so it makes it less frustrating and more rewarding when all buffs can be activated on a single consumption. It drains less energy and gives wiggle room for other stored mobs to be used with other abilities within his kit. I also suggest to increase the effects of Nourished Energy and add another buff. Before I get into that buff, I would suggest taking away his 75 shield and convert that into more Health and add 100 to 150 more energy. The other buff should be Nourished Flesh and this should be a heal regeneration buff at a "x" % of Ability Strength (Similar to Wisp Regeneration Healing). For example: Grendel gains 40 Health per Second (Default or can be changed) for the consumed flesh for the default duration of 25 seconds. This will fix his Health problems (Nidus and Inaros have interesting healing abilities, especially Nidus Regeneration, for tanks that have no shields, or barely no shield in Grendel's case). Also, when an enemy is consumed, Grendel still gets healed, though that healing buff should be doubled. Upon consumption, he also gains a 3 staking health pool of 180% health (630 health) for the duration of nourish and this can be refreshed when a new enemy is consumed and cleared when the duration ends; this can be known as feasting. This will fix the cycling problem of Nourish buffs, add more healing into his kit, and rewards players with buffs rather then searching for them from said mob limiting his kit.

Regurgitate:

This ability is very weak and lacks a lot on the damage side, even with the damage buff from Nourish. I suggest a damage increase (scaling on amount of mobs effected by the AoE or how many stored within his body and throwing 3 at once increase the damage/status), and enemies thrown out of Grendels' body be covered in corrosive or  gas; I wrote this above when talking about his Passive to certain enemy weakened status upon consumption. Upon ground contact a corrosive or gas patch is left on the ground, and/or if it hits an enemy a cloud of said status will deal damage in that area, and last for 4 -8 seconds.

Pulverize:

This ability also lacks damage. I suggest taking away the knock back and impact, instead, have mobs get stuck onto Pulverize dealing gas and/or corrosive damage (I wrote this above when talking about his Passive to certain enemy weakened status upon consumption), scaling per second from rolling or time stuck on Pulverize. Also, allies are able to hit/shoot enemies stuck on Pulverize. When hitting a wall or slamming a ground, Pulverize should add some type of status damage based on that consumed enemy type on that area impacted area. When he exits rolling phase, there should be a large cloud of gas, corrosive, etc. status damage around him for 4-8 seconds. I believe this would fix the annoying knock back issue when hitting an enemy(s) and knocking them back chasing after them and adding some scaling status damage beside impact and knock back.

 

Conclusion:

To me, it feels like he is lacking on the energy side. My thought of playing this Frame was to capture enemies, use their bodies as a buff and source of survival and damage, instead, its very energy consuming over time, lacks damage, healing is too low, and capture said mob to get said buffs has him run around to find said mobs just to get said buff leaves him useless when needing said buff for certain occasions. As of right now, I'd give him a 3.5/10. He's still in Beta Access.

Edited by Mardomus
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13 hours ago, Zalanore said:

My clan was discussing this and came up with a fantastic idea:

Something in the mission (finding a hidden item, killing a specific enemy, completing a side objective, completing 1 excavator / defense wave with no damage / complete a kuva siphon style survival tower, etc.) would reward players with 1 (or 1 per equipment) random mod. This would make your builds constantly changing and a bit wild and unpredictable, but actually be interesting and different. Just an idea, but it's a starting point for discussion on how these missions could be improved.

that sounds...like the most boring idea ever

i don't blame DE for not listening to us sometimes when everything they do never satisfies players and player suggestions are as creative as blank paper

if you're not that good without operator or mods...you've been constantly playing this game on baby monitor mode 

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A "challenge" which disables players builds entirely isn't good game design. It's a development team throwing their hands in the air and proclaiming "We can't balance the mods system. The only way we can make challenging content is to disable it entirely." The message this sends is dire and depressing, to say nothing of grim for the game's future.

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14 hours ago, Subteram said:

Locators are not consumed on failure.

That doesn’t justify making these the worst missions to ever be put into the game.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
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1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

A "challenge" which disables players builds entirely isn't good game design. It's a development team throwing their hands in the air and proclaiming "We can't balance the mods system. The only way we can make challenging content is to disable it entirely." The message this sends is dire and depressing, to say nothing of grim for the game's future.

oh boy, i bet you know what "good game design" is 

i mean they did balance the melee system...and look at the amount of pitch forks at DE HQ 

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That doesn’t justify make these the worst missions to ever be put into the game.

remember when i made a thread about the lack of challenge in warframe?  someguy said to me "just remove all mods, there you've got your challenge" 

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vor 28 Minuten schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

That doesn’t justify make these the worst missions to ever be put into the game.

+1 never had less fun.
there is a difference between hard and annoying...
lazy af hard mode... that all I thought trough farming my grendel parts.

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Biggest issue i can see right now is that it just isnt clear how the nourish buffs work. Is it random? Is it dependent on enemy type?

I have yet to get more than 1 buff going at a time and i have spammed the heck out of the ability with 2 or 3 feasties.

 

Also, not sure if intentional but the energy drain while feasting doesnt seem consistent. Does it scale over time? I did notice that when eating leech eximus their aura continues to drain your energy while they are a feastie. Not sure if it only affects grendel or if nearby teammates also suffer the drain. If so it is potentially ripe for trolling.

 

 

Speaking of trolling. Someone can go low pwr str, suck up a bunch of enemies and dump them on your team at extraction.

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4 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I did notice that when eating leech eximus

Wait, how did you even do that? My Grendel is too picky, he does not eat eximuses of any kind at all...

Sucks in all other enemies but never sucks eximuses in.

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