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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

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Vauban realy feels great now ! He was my first main warframe and i was pretty sad that i couldnt use him anymore BUT NOW HE IS GREAT!

His 1st
I can not much complain about it, it does the job, it could maybe have a bit more rollers tho. Toss them and forget.

His 2nd:
"Sticky Mine" is fun and  strategically smart, you can even put them on other players, specters, dogs/cats etc. and so they become moving CC-options. Or you put on a surface which has damage like electrocuted water or spmithing like that and trag the enemy in.

"Nail AoE" is just additional damage, could be a bit stronger or just use slash-procs

"Speed Boost Pad" needs a bit more charges i have the feeling it runs out pretty quickly, would be great for defence the Interseption terminals tho. But all in all i would remove it and add a "small defence bubble" which has the space for one tenno(also spamable 4 times) so Vauban can stay at one point without getting damage and prepare the surrounding with traps or just shoot out.

"Damage boost" its a nice little damage buff and by alle the 4x4 options the amount of buff seems fair.

His 3rd: Alot of people wanted that Vauban can also deal some high damage and now we have it. I mean you can say that you could do the same damage with a gun but well i dont realy know to be honest how to handle it... I dont use it often to be honest for that reason ... on the other hand it is BIG AWESOME ORBITAL STRIKE (!!!) which scales damage. I would recomend that it should stay BUT it should get a greater range.

His 4th: 
Its the absolut winner of the whole rework, Bastille+Vortex works better then i imagined. The new big range of the Vortex was something i whished for long time. That the Bastille can strip armor over time is good and nessesary so it different itself from vortex and gives the player an additional tectical obtion. BUT imo everthing inside of the Bastille range should get armor striped iff CC´ed or not.

All in all i think the rework was a great success, you can bring Vauban to every mission and still be beneficial for the team. He is now a permanent caster and what i think is the best part about it, he can be used for tactical and creative warfare. A few things needs to be optimised but in his current state he is still realy fun and usefull.

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FEEDBACK ON EMBER AND SOME NOTICEABLE ISSUES

So far, had some fun with her but she feels very annoying due to extreme micro-management on her Immolation meter, which turns into a "Spam 3 or suffer from exponential drain" issue. Passive itself is a really nice passive, rewards you for setting things on fire as the flame-based warframe.

(1) FIREBALL:

1. So far, main issue is inconsistent Heat procs on enemies. Outside of direct hits, enemies may or may not get Heat procs. Sometimes they just take damage, other times they also suffer from a Heat proc. I am uncertain if this is a bug, but it would be great if this was addressed. 

2. Lingering Napalm effect removed. Personally, this would be semi-useful for some minor CC and more AoE debuffs. It would be great if this was re-implemented.

3. 2m-2.4m AoE radius is too small. Multiple 1st abilities have a larger AoE than Fireball,  a 20% increase in AoE on full charge is too little of a benefit when charging it costs up to double the energy cost. Even pre-reworked Fireball had a larger AoE, with 3m - 6m fully charged.

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(2) IMMOLATION:

This ability is basically the entire backbone of Ember's synergy, so far it feels super micro-management needed in order to maximize your buffs.

1. Exponential energy drain. The drain over time gets often too high to sustain even with 170% efficiency when there is nothing to Fire Blast on. A suggestion is to make the initial drain/s fixed, but have a higher drain over time (maybe fixed 15/s instead of the current exponential 10/s), this is mainly so you can have more leeway on using her abilities at maximum potential. Concerns over people going AFK with this ability also shouldn't be a major issue as she does not nuke or decimate entire maps just by standing still.

2. Feels like reverse Redline, punishing you for maxing the meter when all her buffs rely on it maxed. Immolation by far is the most punishing ability in the game, the exponential energy drain means that you cannot maximize your 90% damage reduction all the time, and on top of this a maximum Immolation meter is needed to maximize all of her abilities to full effect but you are punished for doing so with continuous increasing drain over time. 

She basically needs a maxed Immolation meter to maximize Fireball/Fire Blast/Inferno, but she cannot do that due to how Immolation drains each time you use Fire Blast and the exponential energy drain.

3. Buildup of meter can be either super-slow or too fast, resulting in excess need to use Fire Blast. The meter building itself is super slow initially, but as more abilities are used the meter starts building up too fast that even a single Fire Blast will not slow the drain enough. This is an issue which can result in needing to spam Fire Blast unnecessarily, resulting in wastes of energy just to make sure you don't hit the 90% mark too often.

(3) FIRE BLAST:

1. Blocked by obstacles. Most of Fire Blast's potential in non open-world maps like Plains or Fortuna is hindered by it not ignoring walls or obstacles. Some examples of Gauss/Banshee/Frost show that even their abilities ignore walls, but Ember doesn't

2. Base 75 energy for CC and occasional armor strip is too expensive. 75 base energy for a spam-heavy ability needed to "cool down" Immolation is too expensive. This is also considering how you have to use Fire Blast unnecessarily just to lower Immolation's meter. A simple suggestion is to lower the ability cost to 50 energy, since it's main reliance is on Immolation and otherwise, it's only function is to ragdoll CC.)

3. Inconsistent armor strip. You cannot 100% armor strip consistently with Fire Blast due to how the ability lowers your Immolation meter, the main outline for Fire Blast is how you're able to armor strip with it, but the ability itself relies on a maxed meter (which of course will start draining energy/s) and you can only 100% strip once per maxed meter. A suggestion to this is to allow players to hold Fire Blast to lower Immolation, but tapping Fire Blast will allow you to keep a maxed Immolation to strip armor.

4. INFERNO:

1. DoT on marked enemies needs a buff to damage and utility. Currently she deals 5000 explosion damage and 350-700 DoT on marked enemies, with it scaling off Immolation meter. Ember needing to constantly recast the ability to stack the damage also means that she is less energy efficient on nuking with Inferno than most of our DPS frame arsenal. 

This feels abit lackluster as Volt, another notable nuke frame with just pure damage has 1200 DoT on Discharge unmodded. On top of this, Volt also doesn't need Line-Of-Sight for his 4 and has CC on it. Ember just spreads DoT marks on enemies. Notable examples include Miasma scaling 4x more on spores without LOS+Viral procs, Peacemakers having moddable damage with LOS, and others. 

2. Ability doesn't have any Heat procs aside from the initial explosion. This is more of a subjective issue, as enemies who get "infected" by Inferno's debuff do not get any Heat procs. Inferno is supposed to spread the heat, but why are newly marked enemies not getting Heat procs? A simple suggestion is to give Inferno a 50% status chance to proc Heat on marked enemies. This would help boost Inferno's DoT while also keeping to the theme of spreading the heat.

 

Overall, Ember is now more interactive and stronger than her old self. However, I do think she needs more work to be on par with some our 2019 frame arsenals if she is intended to be a DPS/CC/Utility Tank hybrid with the likes of Saryn/Mesa/Gara/Gauss/Volt as some of our top DPS/CC/Utility hybrid frames.

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So DE removed the long delay between Photon Strikes cast and it's explosion. Yes, waiting 2-3 seconds was bad but now there is a new problem. You can't hit enemies that are more than ~15m away now because it explodes mid-air. If i want to kill enemies so close to me i use my melee weapons without energy costs. I think they need to make it to work like this: The explosion comes almost directly after the Orb hits something (a wall/an enemy) but it shouldn't just explode after a fixed period of time. I played him for just 2 hours now and am already god damn annoyed by it hitting nothing because it explodes somewhere in the air...

 

And PLEASE completely rework Vaubans 1. and 2. ability again. The Flechette Orb and Overdriver are...okay but not really good. The other 2 parts of his 2. ability and his 1. ability just feel useless.

Edited by LoTrEaNt

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about ember, shes an energy sponge:

i run max eff, primed flow, rank 3 energize, she still eats too much energy, i have to spam her 3 constantly because if  i dont she starts bleeding energy real fast, having to check energy bar every few seconds and spam an ability just to avoid depleting my entire energy bar, that  is quite annoying and not very fun. 

thats all i have to say

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9 hours ago, Hekkatos said:

you guys are playing it way too safe with Vauban.

as a follow up to people wanting him to have his own sentinel (ala Venari).

Playing it safe is an understatement.

As to everyone saying we need Vauban Sentinel...why have a sentinel when you have Balls? Maybe Minelayer should affect Tesla Nervos, overriding or imparting the particular effects on Minelayer to the Nervos. Have them Follow Vauban and use their effects as they pass foes, like:

  • Tether would actually pull enemies along like being drawn and dismembered by horses. It already has a Slash Proc...
  • Flechette would like the Sentinel Sniper Rifle, dealing high damage to the target and imparting a Puncture Proc on hit.
  • Vector Pad would speed up the Balls so they can keep up. In addition to doing the default Nervos effect.
  • Overdriver could impart a small area buff or Attach to allies like it does now, but it'd follow around each ally (Since there are 4 Nervos)

And this is just me brainstorming for 5 minutes on the concept. I wonder what DE will do with it.

Edited by Dojutrek
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My thoughts of the new warframe reworks:

 

===EMBER===

Pros:

  1. Her Abilities synergizes well. Immolation + Adaptation + Healing Flame Augment works nice for survivability. A Max Damage + Exothermic build is good for cleaning low level enemies.
  2. The existence of Heat proc halves Armor is a great addition that makes Ember Formidable

Cons:

  1. Her Energy usage is too high. I am forced to use both Fleeting Expertise - Streamline - Hunter Adrenaline to keep her energy income.
  2. Immolation increases from slow to fast. It kinda works like Kohm in terms of speed.
  3. Fireball is a good spamming skill, but it's really costly to keep the combo up.

Suggestions:

  1. Reduce the energy cost of Fireball at consecutive casting. The same system as Atlas' Landslide. This will encourages player to spam the skill.
  2. Immolation percentage increases instantly instead of exponentially, the same as Gauss' meter.
  3. Reduce Immolation energy drain, with the lowest cap at 2 Energy/Second.

 

===VAUBAN===

Pros:

  1. Tesla Nervos is way much better now. Giving a great CC capabilities on a cheap energy cost.
  2. Tesla Bank Augment is a GREAT augment for enemy scaling. Now, he's able to kill higher level enemies.
  3. Photon Strike is a GREAT skill for killing low level enemies in a snap
  4. Photon Repeater is a good augment for making his 3 a lot better, but it need readjustments (read cons)

Cons:

  1. Mineflayer's Flechette Orb is lacking damage in late game even with maximum damage mods. This ability should've been a "damage hitting" CC instead.
  2. Tether Coil's maximum enemy is so low, it's overshadowed by Bastille-Vortex.
  3. Vector Pad is a worthless ability in any situation, overshadowed by Void Dash - Speed Buffs - Bullet Jump. Why is this ability here?
  4. Overdriver, while a good ability lacks horribly in numbers. Even at 337% Strength (Max number in mod equipping) only gives 84% of Bonus WEAPON damage. Which is NOT worth it.
  5. Photon Repeater has a delay when the damage hits. Players get 1 second delay of photon repeater buff after the damage connects. Which makes the ability spammable, but really slow.
  6. Bastille turns into Vortex when the duration is almost out. I get caught off guard most of the time.

Suggestions:

  1. Change Flechette Orb damage into Impact that always procs and always hit enemies. This will flinch random enemies, making it a good CC.
  2. Tether Coil's maximum enemy should be affected by either Ability Duration OR Ability Strength. But not getting overshadowed by Bastille - Vortex. OR, give a slash proc on enemies who get caught by it.
  3. Change Vector Pad into a defensive version of Overdriver. Somehing that increases ARMOR / Giving Damage Reduction percentage. This will give survivability on Vauban.
  4. Increase Overdriver's damage, make it scales linearly with power strength (300% Power Strength means 300% bonus damage) OR, change Damage Bonus buff into Ability Strength Buff like Nidus' Parasitic Link and Equinox' Provoke.
  5. Photon Repeater should be a timed buff. After one second delay of damage, player will get 3-5 seconds of Photon Repeater Buff. Giving a low window time to spam Photon Strike as many as possible. After timer runs out, there will be a Photon Repeater debuff for a few seconds (kinda works like Rolling Guard buff, you get invincibility, then a rolling guard debuff) Thus, making the ability the same as "Fever Time Spamming".
  6. Remove Bastille turning into Vortex when almost running out of duration. Give that decision to players.
Edited by Rasdan

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i feel like im the only player that manages Embers energy consumption fine. Her augment helps and Zenurik works better with her now since she doesnt constantly drain power anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i feel like im the only player that manages Embers energy consumption fine. Her augment helps and Zenurik works better with her now since she doesnt constantly drain power anymore. 

One thing people would do well to consider is that... you don't have to always run immolation. When I do bounties or Hydron, I don't bother turning it on, and that allows me to spam as much inferno as I please, wiping out everything in sight at a very low cost. It's only in sorties and when hunting the Lich that I found it necessary to keep immolation high to not die constantly when an enemy as much as sneezes in my general direction. But then again, I also run a bit of fleeting expertise and constantly refill energy with void dash so...

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23 minutes ago, Askorti said:

One thing people would do well to consider is that... you don't have to always run immolation. When I do bounties or Hydron, I don't bother turning it on, and that allows me to spam as much inferno as I please, wiping out everything in sight at a very low cost. It's only in sorties and when hunting the Lich that I found it necessary to keep immolation high to not die constantly when an enemy as much as sneezes in my general direction. But then again, I also run a bit of fleeting expertise and constantly refill energy with void dash so...

Its mainly for those higher levelled content that Immolation is more useful, since it also increases the cast time of 1, armor strip for 3, and Inferno's damage. But the maintenance of Immolate is still very extreme, and this is coming from a person who has 170% efficiency with Energize. If you spam too much, you basically have to keep casting fire blast unnecessarily or toggle off Immolation, which needs the slow ramp up over time again, repeating the annoying spam cycle. Personally, found the spam issue more prevalent in ESO, where Inferno doesn't exactly nuke much unlike the dedicated DPS frames (Saryn/Volt).

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Vauban's Flechette orb is too random for a status debuff that just doesn't  make a difference in any level of gameplay. At lower levels it might do a good job at simply being an AoE damage outlet, yet Photon Strike does much more consistent damage than the orb. The status debuff brought by puncture is too underpowered to make a big difference as in higher levels you're still going  to get one-shot by that big baddie even with a -30% damage debuff (unless for some reason it stacks, but then you have to wait and hope that the stacking debuffs will matter before you get disintegrated).

WHy couldn't it have just been a small, deployable orb-turret that concentrates a laser at an enemy and applies a cold debuff? Or why not  utilize the gun-like sounds it makes and have it deal impact procs? There's many ways that would make this ability be more useful, right now it' just suffering.

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8 hours ago, nonscience said:

Combining Bastille and Vortex gives a tactical choice.

What, how so? With the old kit you could at least select which one to throw, but now you are FORCED to make every Bastille into a Vortex. Or first throw Vortexes and then throw Bastilles which is just as bad.

I'm saying it again that the Bastille -> Vortex conversion has to be removed in order to have more tactical choices and "diversity" with Vauban. I guess keeping them in the same skill is fine as long as a tap is Bastille and hold is Vortex, always. The clunky conversion mechanic is just so annoying and serves no real purpose.

You can say that Vortex got buffed for sure (dat range), but at the same time Bastille got pretty much butchered in the process. I want my enemies stay neatly in place without having a unwanted sucking Vortex at the end.

Edited by Judqment8

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1 minute ago, Judqment8 said:

*snip*

Yeah, having to choose might be seen as a hinderance. But one has to admit it "freed" a slot for photon strike in exchange for a minor inconvenience. I don't like tapping to switch, that's what makes me forget any power with that mechanic (Ivara 1, Vauban mines...) but I guess to comes to personal preference here. How about choice in control settings? Sounds a nice way to make everyone have his/her fun? 🙂

About it ending into a vortex, I like having a visual cue to recast. I get your point though.

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Would it also be sacrilegious to recommend 'bounce pad' orb becomes a short-range teleport instead?

Or perhaps first use of spell for entry, second use for exit sort of thing? Or is Nova the only  warframe allowed to have teleports?

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I love ember, she's now one of my favorite frames to use. Not only is she capable of surviving high levels now but her kit feels involving and has some synergy.

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14 minutes ago, AshenHaze said:

Would it also be sacrilegious to recommend 'bounce pad' orb becomes a short-range teleport instead?

Or perhaps first use of spell for entry, second use for exit sort of thing? Or is Nova the only  warframe allowed to have teleports?

A portal would be an awesome power. Could make Vauban the King of interception

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40 minutes ago, nonscience said:

About it ending into a vortex, I like having a visual cue to recast. I get your point though.

Visual cue is great. Ragdolling all enemies while trying to suck them into the center only to get them stuck in different parts of the geometry is not. 😛 Not to mention that this happens even if you have a new Bastille already up and ready.

I just don't like it at all.

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Just now, Judqment8 said:

Not to mention that this happens even if you have a new Bastille already up and ready.

I understand it can be a pain. You make sense here. On my side, I'm getting old and my reflexes aren't what they used to be, the folding vortex helps in a way.

I'd like to see this option about pre-selecting your power for Bastille/Vortex. That would be a nice thing if possible.

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Still the only gripes I've had is fireball still being kinda boring and clunky, immolation eating energy, fireblast being line of sight and having low damage that doesn't scale with immolation level, and infernos fire rings having weak spreading and no status chance after the initial explosion. The passive could also be 10% instead of 5% too, keeping enemies lit is unreliable to only get an extra 25% boost on average for 6 seconds.

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I went into a Sanctuary Onslaught with a 280% range Vauban. The bugs with Tether Coil staying linked to dead body parts was even worse here than in the simulcrum. In the sim, the body parts vanish fairly quickly so it's not that bad for long, but after tossing several Coils into a Vortex area, I managed to cover a very large area with laser beams going all over the place and they didn't seem to go away for awhile. This seemed to upset people as they all ended up leaving. I thought it was kind of pretty and decorative though. 

I think the loot swirling around in my Vortex might have also been visually obnoxious at times. 

edit: Another issue with really high range Vortex is that on smaller indoor maps, or maps with a lot of obstacles, it pulls mobs from adjacent areas into the sides of walls and what not and keeps them from coming to you. Maybe vortex should have a line of sight requirement?

Edited by Borg1611
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I think Ember's rework is fantastic and I'm grateful she's in a better spot than she was beforehand, but I feel that the heat meter could be made a bit more dynamic. As it currently stands, the tools we have to manipulate it are somewhat limited. Her 1 and 4 increase the rate at which it builds, and her 3 knocks off about half of it and slows the build rate, but this leaves players in a tight spot.

If you want to keep her DR up, you need to either wait for it to gradually build without touching 1 or 4 lest it max out too quickly, or you need to spam 3 to slow the build rate down once it is high. Either way, reaching the max is inevitable, and this means you're either about to lose your DR or lose your energy, whether it be because it capped and sucked you dry, or because you need to vent it with 3, which costs too much energy for the vital balancing tool it should be. And if you don't happen to have enough energy for it, you lose both. Not great for high-level content. I get that letting it cap out should be punishing, but our only means to prevent that are too costly, or leave you up a creek without a paddle.

If her powers let us 'tap the brake' and keep the balance of DR and energy use sustainable, that would help her out a lot. Maybe if we could hold 3 to gradually vent some of the heat gauge with a gradual energy cost instead of chopping half of it off, that could really help maintain a balance. Furthermore, her 1 and 4 shouldn't speed up the heat gauge, since that continually punished ability use when those abilities are designed to be used together. Have her 1 and 4 add a flat amount to the gauge instead of speeding it up so that we can build our DR without losing control of the heat gauge.

I also think other factors should influence the heat gauge, like receiving a cold proc slowing or reducing the gauge and a heat proc building it. It's probably not essential for the ability, but it's intuitive and can encourage a player to consider the enemies and the environment more carefully. I imagine ship sabotage missions would merit a second thought when deciding to flood the level with heat procs or cold procs.

Edited by Potatrobot

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3 hours ago, Borg1611 said:

edit: Another issue with really high range Vortex is that on smaller indoor maps, or maps with a lot of obstacles, it pulls mobs from adjacent areas into the sides of walls and what not and keeps them from coming to you. Maybe vortex should have a line of sight requirement?

Or maybe the Vortex could remove static collision from enemies and actually pull enemies through the geometry. That way the Vortex would work amazingly and pull enemies into a neat pile. And also would make Vortex a much more unique and fun skill.

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If Bastille provides bonus armor to allies cause it removes enemy armor, since Vortex deals magnetic damage, could it provide overshield to allies by "inverting polarity of the enemies shield / electric current generated by their body" ?

Sorry I'm putting up fake scientific facts to ask for any additional survivability option... Like 50 shield per second per enemy affected by Vortex, up to the usual +1200 overshield

I know more health/armor is better, but with Adaptation (over)shield is now "ok-ish" (at least against Corpus) and overshield doesn't have an annoying duration counter (bonus armor is unmanageable in open world)

It's an easy little tweak if DE really doesn't want to touch his stats (although 150-200 armor and 375 HP at rank 30 isn't that much of a boost)

Edited by Tatann

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I keep it short :

Ember :

Passive is okay,nothing special nothing too op

Fireball: is nothing special,shouldn't immolation give dmg boost too like its ember getting hot so her balls should be hotter too??

Immolation: good survival tool,i dont get it how people cannot manage its energy drain,is manageable even with 75% efficiency.And it shouldnt at least set enemy of fire when they comes in vicinity?? is like u know walking flame how doesnt enemie get not burned??

Fire blast : nice flashy fireworks but that is all in current state,it would be nice if wave expand rate would be affected by duration like in nova,it would make it more usesfull

Inferno: very flashy,very strong with immolation,but i got one complain should comet ko enemies,cause this is like u know big flamy rock crashing down on their skulls??

 

Vauban:

Passive : seriously?? Seriously?? LAME.Give that poor engineer some survival tool instead more dmg to incapacited enemies. Something like when less energy he have the more max shield capacity ,and vice versa,cause his very survival is based on his abilities,so no energy = dead

Tesla nervos = mighty fine and mighty usesfull no more stuffing kubrow with teslas:D

Minelayer - fine but my complain is lack of synergy between mines and number of enemies affect by tether coil ,too low at least 4 would be good and could synergy with flechete orb and vector pad like when u cast flechete orb on it instead dmg over time deals all dmg in one burst dealing puncture/slash dmg,and casting either tether or flechet on vector pad should slingshot it in way vector faces (kinda artilery),flechete could be mixed with overdriver for bigger dmg but for potential self dmg.

Photon cannon - very flashy,strong and kinda epic if u combo it with either vortex or tether

Bastille : okay good all abilties in one

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1 hour ago, Syq111 said:

Vauban:

Passive : seriously?? Seriously?? LAME.Give that poor engineer some survival tool instead more dmg to incapacited enemies. Something like when less energy he have the more max shield capacity ,and vice versa,cause his very survival is based on his abilities,so no energy = dead

Unless he gets a skill which boosts his shields I'll take the damage passive any day instead of what you suggested. Tether Coil, Vector Pad and the fletche Orb any one of them could be swapped out for a defensive ability.

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Awe man, the cool ion cannon charge up is gone, and now feels more brain dead.. The skill in using it on moving enemies is now trivial 

Can't you make it a charging ability? Taping the ability is an instant strike but charging the ability has that delay again but with more damage 

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