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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

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On 2019-11-19 at 6:30 AM, Colyeses said:

For Vauban, I have the following notes.

Tesla Nervos - They suffer from some usability issues. They're highly aggressive and as rollers, they have something of a tendency to get stuck. It's easy to lose track of them, which makes the ability lack a bit of feedback. Tesla Bank is an incredibly powerful augment however, and it retains value at all ranks.

As a suggestion for improving the Nervos, I would recommend diversifying the AI. There are four nervos, so why not run four different AIs on them?

One that is aggressive, and will autonomously seek out new enemies to target, in disregard of how far away they might be.

One that is defensive, and will latch onto the first enemy to attack Vauban.

One that is supportive, and will only latch onto enemies within X meters of Vauban, and will detach if Vauban moves too far away.

And one with a standard AI.

-Snipped the rest-

This would be AWESOME.

Alternatively, it could be like Khora's Venari with each AI being Distinct. First though, Cut down Minelayer to a Twin Ability, similar to Bastille/Vortex. Overdriver and Flechette, Press for an Ally buff and hold for an Enemy Debuff. No Change over like the one from Bastille to Vortex, just one or the other.

Then for Nervos, Make the A.I. a Distinct part of his kit, with a swap function and include some Minelayer bits that were removed into each A.I,. Control A.I. would be like the Tether to drag enemies around (Same Limitations, 2 Per Nervos and No Power Strength Scaling). Defensive A.I. would latch on to Vauban/Allies and rapidly heal shields or add shield gating, maximum is One per ally/Vauban and the rest would be passive around Vauban until the latched one is used. Then an Attack A.I. for the Regular Nervos effect which would be the only one to benefit from Tesla Bank.

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Vaubans minelayer needs a complete overhaul. I’m talking about making it an actual proper array of utility abilities.

A healing AOE, a grenade that provides 90% DR to the person it attaches to. Maybe some form of movement that isn’t just another version of bounce.

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Honestly, I think minelayer is pretty close to being perfect. It just needs three things:

1. Vector pad needs to be replaced with meaningful utility or defense.

2. Tether grenades need improved functionality by actually, succesfully dragging enemies in. Could be done by forcing grabbed enemies to teleport into range, like what Grineer commanders do.

3. Improvement to controls. It's a bit of a hassle to keep swapping the tools out while using them. While three of these tools are useful, I often find myself just stuck on Flechettes, since they're my favourite, without using overdrivers or thethers. Improving the on-the-fly access for this ability could make a big difference. 

Would it be possible to use sequencing? Press 2 to access minelayer, then press 1 for thether, 2 for flechettes, etc.? That would make the ability control slightly better, I think.

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So it's pretty close to being perfect, but needs an overhaul, we're ok on that ;-)

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3 hours ago, Colyeses said:

Would it be possible to use sequencing? Press 2 to access minelayer, then press 1 for thether, 2 for flechettes, etc.? That would make the ability control slightly better, I think.

So, like a second set of skills? You activate Minelayer and for a Duration, your 1 through 4 keys only activate Minelayer abilities?

Or are we talking like Starcraft, where pressing 'C' selects your Command Center and then hitting 'S' builds an SCV (In this case it'd be 2 then 1 through 4, sort of like a sub-menu)?

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1 hour ago, Dojutrek said:

So, like a second set of skills? You activate Minelayer and for a Duration, your 1 through 4 keys only activate Minelayer abilities?

Or are we talking like Starcraft, where pressing 'C' selects your Command Center and then hitting 'S' builds an SCV (In this case it'd be 2 then 1 through 4, sort of like a sub-menu)?

It would have to be sub-menu style. Then 2-1 becomes Tether, 2-2 becomes Flechette, etc. 

If it were to be done on a duration then you risk locking Vauban out of the use of Bastille, Tesla and Photon Strike. And if you did it with toggle, you'd lose access to one of the abilities. Though, to be perfectly fair, I don't think Vector pad would be missed much, so that is also an option. At that point you'd be looking at a system similar to Equinox.

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Welp ember is now useless for me and is no longer 1 of my go to frames please change back to old or try another complete rework welp time to earn my normal embers mastery and then put it on the shelf to gather dust

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So I've messed around with Ember and she's so much better, she's more interactive and fun. However I just feel Accelerant should have been kept instead of Fire Blast, let me explain


Accelerant allowed Ember to boost the power of all heat damage dealt and increased her cast speed, this allowed you to run pure heat on your weapons and be effective even more so when Fireball Frenzy was reworked to also apply to you. In Ember's present state where she casts a lot more often and inflicts a lot more heat procs Accelerant would have been the perfect fit to tie all her synergies together as it also makes perfect sense that it could expel heat for Immolation.
So how would I have it incorporated: Bring it back as it was with the addition that when you generate heat with Immolation and use Accelerant it will inflict a heat proc to all enemies in range and dispel the same amount of heat as Fire Blast does now

Lastly I do recall suggesting Ember have armor strip of some kind in her kit sometime before her rework but if I had to choose between boosting the damage of her unique element or generic armor stripping I would've chosen the former because it was the unique thing she did among the primary elemental frames and let's face it armor strip is a band aid to the long ignored underlying problem of enemy scaling.
Additionally since heat has been changed to deal with armor additional armor stripping feels redundant, adding Accelerant would allow all four of her abilities to serve a unique purpose in my opinion. It just feels like Accelerant belongs in this rework.

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On 2019-10-31 at 6:08 PM, TKDancer said:

i currently have 3 issues with vauban:

1st, the flechette orbs feels weak, something i expect when it was introduced, improvements to its status chance and changing its damage type to slash would great improve it, as it stands i see no use for it as photon strike is just superior

2nd, bastille armor stripping effect seems to ONLY work on enemies in the "floaty" animation, enemies within the bastille being stunned by tesla orbs or being ragdolled by another vortex or stuck by a tether coil are not affected by the armor debuff, making combined use of vauban's abilities damage his efficacy

3rd, tether coils limit of 2 targets seems rather low

This guy knows what he's talking about

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Vauban 3rd and 4th ability not working together in Orb Vallis

The synergy where his 3rd is supposed to homing to his 4th when it's a vortex

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Strictly vauban talk here:

He's better than before but still has ALOT of problems:

Durability/surviving. I put on umbra mods, vitality, and prime vigor, I'm still struggling to survive with him. Bastille is not an answer to this.

Overlapping and non useful skills. skills greatly identical and horribly inferior to other frames. Outside of theme aesthetic you pick him then actually play and are like "I could be doing so much more with a different frame" (wisp, khora, frost gara, nidus etc).

Skills in general need tweaking to work as intended.

 

TESLA NERVOS

This skill is on the right track but has alot to go...

Problems: they get lost. I really dont know what they are doing outside the simulations. In game they deploy and I hardly see them again. The procis not noticeable. They dont follow vauban like how was shown in the devstream videos.
The augment is a strict requirement to make this skill usefull.


Solutions
-Make the augment in innate part of the skill.  Change the augment to allow for damage type to carry over (instead of just electric). Or make the augment allow for true damage. You can add power strength to determine percentage.

-change the proc to 100%. Or atleast scale with power strength.

-the juggle animation of the balls are really cool! The need to charge it use 4 balls and make the animation is not..  the balls following him around on the floor is not noticable or just plain clunky and not working. Make them hover around him like novas 1 like the juggle animation. 

-these have the ability to look cool if done right. Think of the funnels in the gundam series or the balls in the movie phantasm (old school). 

 

MINELAYER

 This skill is completely overshadowed by either the rest of vaubans kit or by other frames. (Wisp does everything this does in her first ability, better and permanently)

Overdriver is not worth the effort and doesnt stick to where you want to go half the time.
 
Fleccette orb needs to proc either impact or slash. Puncture procs are frankly useless in this game. 

Speed vector pad just needs to GO.  Replace this with some sort of survivability. Any kind of survivability.

Tether grenade is not worth the energy when vortex does the same thing but better. 
Neat idea:
Make it pull more enemies based on power strength. KEEP the stringy bug that leaves them all over the place and allow that to work like trip mine did. It makes practical sense cuz they are well tethered strings after all.  You can take this one step further by allowing to do slash damage proc based of percentage. Or they could be trip wires that when passed  cause explosions (like you know a claymore trip mine).

Bastille
This skill is frankly the absolute worse of the barriers.
The captured amount of enemies needs to either be all or least increased by power strength or something. 
The armor bonus is not worth it as time it takes to build it up is slow af. The bonus should be flat out 1000 with  additional bonus granted from enemies.  The duration outside Bastille is a joke.  Wisp once again does this better in spades and the reservoir is permanent and doesnr need to be refreshed.  You need to refresh Bastille for 100 energy just to survive is NOT good.

Other than that I agree with what people say about. Vortex (needs to be line of sight) and orbital strike needs some tweaking to hit properly and at long range.
 

_____________________________________________

Additional idea

His PASSIVE should be extended to all forms of CC to include electric procs and knocked down oppenents. This would enhance Tesla as well and give him more build options.

Replacing minelayer.
I'm gonna go out and say it. For some reason DE hates the idea of sentries. This despite the fact sentinels are sentries, they just happen to hug your side.

That being said minelayer could be better off being replaced by an exalted sentinel. This sentinel would be able similar to khoras's venari. It would have 3 modes abilities similar to the moa companion

Defense mode
Sentinel stays specifically at vaubans side
    - stasis field (giving vauban actual defense) while also giving overshield that are shield gated.
    - Vauban can highlight and click an ally to receive this benefit costing 25 energy to do so.
Control mode
    - Deploys tether mine ability (with adjustments I stated above)
    - Anti gravity grenade
    - Vauban can click on spots to forcibly deploy at choke points for 25 energy
Assualt mode
    - Sentinel increases fire rate using sentinel weapons that drains vaubans energy longer its highlighted. Takes 2 seconds to start draining so that it doesnt do so when scrolling through modes. 
    - Deploys fleccette orb that causes impact or slash procs and has adjustments I detailed before.
    - Vauban can click on enemies to make sentinel focus its attack on that particular one. This drains vaubans energy longer its highlighted.  Reload time is negated for sentinel. Takes 1 second to start draining so that it doesnt do so at accidental click.
Reving sentinel cost energy.
 

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I have played Vauban and there are some improvements that need to be made, most of these changes are the same as before I got to play him which proves sometime you don`t need to play a warframe to know that it needs some improvements. So once agan I’m going give my suggestions on how to improve his abilities.

 

Vauban:

·       All abilities will land where you are aiming at instead of an arch throw.

 

1st ability:

Since there is no reason to cast one nervo instead of four since having four is better, I’m going to change the way it performs.

·       When casting one, it won`t seek out enemies and will work as a trap.

·       It has 100% stun proc on a normal cast.

·       Make it shock four enemies.

·       The radius of stuns affecting enemies is adds and extra 3m.

·       The shock intervals 0.5 seconds.

·       The amount of shocks is doubled.

·       It is able to disable traps and hazardous doors.

 

This makes it be more useful and gives another option on how they are used.

 

General changes;

·       Make the nervos look like Vauban`s grenades.

·       Reduce volume the sounds they make.

 

2nd ability:

Tether Coil:

·       The duration won`t start until it catches an enemy.

·       It can pull in up to a max of 10 enemies.

·       Enemies killed while caught will give Vauban 5 energy in a 12m radius. The amount of energy received can be increased by efficiency mods.

·       When enemy is killed it will pull a new enemy in. (consistently)

 

Even through this is very similar to vortex, this is a cheaper option and it`s a source of energy gain.

 

Flechette Orb:

Even through this is good for me since I mostly play syndicate missions (which are low-levelled) I think this need to do something more than damage.

·       Enemies hit will have their weapons explode dealing blast damage and making them use their melee weapon

·       If a melee enemy is hit, they will stagger.

·       There is no limit to how far it can reach.

·       Make it bypass all obstacles or make it bounce of surfaces.

 

Since it can disarm enemies, this gives him synergy with his 1st 2nd and 4th abilities which makes him very effective plus it`s gives a small cc.

 

Vector Pad:

·       Vauban and allies that run across it should get a speed buff for half the duration of the ability for whatever you do while running on it (running, reloading, shooting bullet jumping) for 15 seconds and can be increased by duration mods.

·       Enemies affected will receive 50% reduction to movement speed.

·       Make the duration of enemies’ movement speed reduction affected by duration mods 15 seconds at base.

·       This works for k-drives.

 

This make the ability much more useful by giving a buff after running on it and de-buffs enemies.

 

Overdriver:

·       This also works on companions and npc if you throw it at them.

 

Not only its useful for Vauban and allies but its beneficial for companions and npc.

 

3rd ability:

·       If enemies survive the blast, they will receive a radiation proc.

·       It`s base range is 10m.

 

This make the ability useful in enemies survive the blast giving Vauban some survivability.

 

4th ability:

·       Vortex will deal blast damage instead of magnetic.

·       When ability runs out or deactivated, it will explode in a 15m radius.

·       Replace armour buff with 50% damage reduction.

·       The damage reduction Vauban and allies receive can be increased by strength mods.

·       Instead of it striping armour make it strip enemies’ defences. (this makes it useful for all fraction)

-        Grineer will have no armour

-        Corpus will have no shields

-        Infested will be dealt double damage

-        Sentients can no longer adapt

 

Giving Vauban and allies inside the 4th ability damage reduction is better than having increased armour since armour doesn’t do much, changing the damage type makes it more useful, vortex on its own is even more useful and it stripping enemies defence makes it useful for all enemy fractions.

 

Synergies:

 

1st & 2nd ability

·       Mobile nervo will pick up tether coil, flechette orb and vector pad but only can pick them up once and can`t pick up anymore until they expire.

 

1st, 2nd & 4th ability

If you throw abilities inside the 4th ability…

·       1st ability will shock every enemy sucked in doing more damage.

·       Vector pad can move vortex in any direction by 5m.

·       Flechette Orb affects enemies caught inside bastille making them receive a radiation proc making enemies outside attack them. The duration of enemies affected by radiation is the as long as bastille`s duration.

 

If these ideas were to be implemented It will drastically improve all his abilities especially minelayer.

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11 hours ago, (PS4)Absoluteboxer said:

Strictly vauban talk here:

He's better than before but still has ALOT of problems:

Durability/surviving. I put on umbra mods, vitality, and prime vigor, I'm still struggling to survive with him. Bastille is not an answer to this.

Overlapping and non useful skills. skills greatly identical and horribly inferior to other frames. Outside of theme aesthetic you pick him then actually play and are like "I could be doing so much more with a different frame" (wisp, khora, frost gara, nidus etc).

Skills in general need tweaking to work as intended.

 

TESLA NERVOS

This skill is on the right track but has alot to go...

Problems: they get lost. I really dont know what they are doing outside the simulations. In game they deploy and I hardly see them again. The procis not noticeable. They dont follow vauban like how was shown in the devstream videos.
The augment is a strict requirement to make this skill usefull.


Solutions
-Make the augment in innate part of the skill.  Change the augment to allow for damage type to carry over (instead of just electric). Or make the augment allow for true damage. You can add power strength to determine percentage.

-change the proc to 100%. Or atleast scale with power strength.

-the juggle animation of the balls are really cool! The need to charge it use 4 balls and make the animation is not..  the balls following him around on the floor is not noticable or just plain clunky and not working. Make them hover around him like novas 1 like the juggle animation. 

-these have the ability to look cool if done right. Think of the funnels in the gundam series or the balls in the movie phantasm (old school). 

 

MINELAYER

 This skill is completely overshadowed by either the rest of vaubans kit or by other frames. (Wisp does everything this does in her first ability, better and permanently)

Overdriver is not worth the effort and doesnt stick to where you want to go half the time.
 
Fleccette orb needs to proc either impact or slash. Puncture procs are frankly useless in this game. 

Speed vector pad just needs to GO.  Replace this with some sort of survivability. Any kind of survivability.

Tether grenade is not worth the energy when vortex does the same thing but better. 
Neat idea:
Make it pull more enemies based on power strength. KEEP the stringy bug that leaves them all over the place and allow that to work like trip mine did. It makes practical sense cuz they are well tethered strings after all.  You can take this one step further by allowing to do slash damage proc based of percentage. Or they could be trip wires that when passed  cause explosions (like you know a claymore trip mine).

Bastille
This skill is frankly the absolute worse of the barriers.
The captured amount of enemies needs to either be all or least increased by power strength or something. 
The armor bonus is not worth it as time it takes to build it up is slow af. The bonus should be flat out 1000 with  additional bonus granted from enemies.  The duration outside Bastille is a joke.  Wisp once again does this better in spades and the reservoir is permanent and doesnr need to be refreshed.  You need to refresh Bastille for 100 energy just to survive is NOT good.

Other than that I agree with what people say about. Vortex (needs to be line of sight) and orbital strike needs some tweaking to hit properly and at long range.
 

_____________________________________________

Additional idea

His PASSIVE should be extended to all forms of CC to include electric procs and knocked down oppenents. This would enhance Tesla as well and give him more build options.

Replacing minelayer.
I'm gonna go out and say it. For some reason DE hates the idea of sentries. This despite the fact sentinels are sentries, they just happen to hug your side.

That being said minelayer could be better off being replaced by an exalted sentinel. This sentinel would be able similar to khoras's venari. It would have 3 modes abilities similar to the moa companion

Defense mode
Sentinel stays specifically at vaubans side
    - stasis field (giving vauban actual defense) while also giving overshield that are shield gated.
    - Vauban can highlight and click an ally to receive this benefit costing 25 energy to do so.
Control mode
    - Deploys tether mine ability (with adjustments I stated above)
    - Anti gravity grenade
    - Vauban can click on spots to forcibly deploy at choke points for 25 energy
Assualt mode
    - Sentinel increases fire rate using sentinel weapons that drains vaubans energy longer its highlighted. Takes 2 seconds to start draining so that it doesnt do so when scrolling through modes. 
    - Deploys fleccette orb that causes impact or slash procs and has adjustments I detailed before.
    - Vauban can click on enemies to make sentinel focus its attack on that particular one. This drains vaubans energy longer its highlighted.  Reload time is negated for sentinel. Takes 1 second to start draining so that it doesnt do so at accidental click.
Reving sentinel cost energy.
 

I like the idea but do you "command" the sentinel ?

I mean, your sentinel is basically an MOA from Fortuna (at least stasis shield and tether nades). I like the MOAs (and use specifically these 2 precepts) but what annoys me the most is when the MOA use the stasis shield when not needed and then it's on cooldown when really helpful. Same thing for the tether...

So would you switch and then press to use on command or randomly ?

Also could you mod the sentinel like Venari ? Medi-ray, shield charger or the mod that instantly and fully replenish shields (forgot the name) could help Vauban with survivability (one of his worst aspects) while still having a kavat (for the buffs) or kubrow (for the utility). Or obviously a second sentinel if you're into it (dethcube for energy, carrier for ammo, ...)

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12 hours ago, (PS4)vinton14 said:

Vauban 3rd and 4th ability not working together in Orb Vallis

The synergy where his 3rd is supposed to homing to his 4th when it's a vortex

My main grudge in Vallis are the enemies completely ignoring his CC. I mean Vauban rely more than any other frame on it, but with more and more simply ignoring it, where is his place ? Isn't he supposed to be a Corpus nightmare like shown in the prime trailer ?

Why not make enemies bypass Iron Skin or other defensive skills while we're at it ? Why Vauban should be the only one suffering from enemy "scaling" ?

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5 hours ago, Tatann said:

I like the idea but do you "command" the sentinel ?

I mean, your sentinel is basically an MOA from Fortuna (at least stasis shield and tether nades). I like the MOAs (and use specifically these 2 precepts) but what annoys me the most is when the MOA use the stasis shield when not needed and then it's on cooldown when really helpful. Same thing for the tether...

So would you switch and then press to use on command or randomly ?

Also could you mod the sentinel like Venari ? Medi-ray, shield charger or the mod that instantly and fully replenish shields (forgot the name) could help Vauban with survivability (one of his worst aspects) while still having a kavat (for the buffs) or kubrow (for the utility). Or obviously a second sentinel if you're into it (dethcube for energy, carrier for ammo, ...)

Pretty much how I imagined it.. was thinking any kind of bubble shield (even like the corpus use would be kinda cool). I think the mod that restores shields is guardian. But yes it would be able to use all of those. 

The sentinel would be automatic like venari but you could command it to focus on things you want (sortie defense or attacking a grineer bombard etc).  

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I like the new Vauban rework, but the vector pad feels kinda useless 😕 I think it would be better to remove the pad and add some survivability, like an orb that creates a shield bubble or reinforces armor depending on power str or something like that; it would encourage ppl to build it in different ways and use and use his other abilities a lot more, and not just build him to be a huge vacuum frame. 

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Vauban Feedback:

Vauban's rework is generally improvement all around, except for Minelayer. 

Those directional speed pads should be replaced with an actual ability, and the Azima-style mine should be somewhat reworked.  Hell, even being able to place down a rampart would be nice for Vauban to be able to do, as a mine.  Tether Mine needs to be able to tether more enemies, and Overdriver needs to be scrapped entirely due to its piteous increase of damage (bringing back the Shred mine would even be an improvement). 

Orbital Strike could use a reduction in delay between cast and activation. 

Though, it is very fun to fly around as Vauban by spamming 3 midair.  That was a great addition to the game. 

 

'Ember' Feedback:

'Ember' hurts to play.  I have been maining Ember ever since I obtained her many years ago, only to watch her get worse and worse with nothing but consecutive nerfs, and I have been trying to find excuses time and time again to keep playing her.  So far, I have sunk 32 forma into her to play her over and over to test many builds while leveling because it was fun.  But this version of 'Ember' somehow feels worse than all the rest of them have felt. 

Her passive is... a sidegrade to the former one.  Or, at least that was the case before the Javlok was nerfed to not be able to self-inflict fire status.  So, the new passive is technically an upgrade due to the Javlok's nerf vicariously nerfing the old passive, before the new passive was introduced. 

Her first ability's charge time is far too long.  Put bluntly, it should not need to be charged at all, and should have the fully-charged effect at base.  Yes, I understand that placing 1 on a spare mouse button can help avoid the frustration of having to hold 1 while holding at least 2-5 other movement inputs with the left hand to charge the ability, but I have run out of mouse buttons to bind to this game's inputs.  I have 4 extra mouse buttons - one of them is bound to ctrl+E for slide attacks; another is a Zenurik macro to enter operator mode, ctrl+space, exit operator mode; the third is rolling; the fourth is alt fire.  So, I am not seeing a solid solution here. 

Immolation is not a good ability.  Being punished for getting the full effectiveness of her ability with energy drain is asinine and cruel.  Using her 4th ability at all with her 2nd active sets her on a one-way trip to destination: #*!%ed because the meter builds up faster than it can possibly be spammed down with her 3rd ability even with Natural Talent (I have tried this many times).  Immolation is only meant to be paired with Ember's first ability, and on rare occasion her third. 

'Ember''s 3rd ability's effectiveness being determined by her garbage 2nd ability makes her 3rd ability just as garbage.  Not that her 3rd ability was useful at all beforehand, so I guess this makes it go from being useless, to being trash.  The ability does something now, even if that something is not much. 

'Ember''s 4th ability is a direct downgrade from World on Fire.  Enemies affected by it can still attack 'Ember', and it does not do much outside of low level missions.  Exothermic, the augment, does not make up for the insane energy drain from using 'Ember''s 2nd ability, though it does help with running Blind Rage builds... which are still incredibly weak.  At least World on Fire stunlocked enemies and the augment was useful in doing so, even if it could not kill anything with a decent level.  Inferno can neither kill nor stunlock enemies.  Plus, Inferno needs to be spamcasted for barely effective nuking, locking Ember in place over and over again.  World on Fire needed to be recasted once every 10 seconds and was effective while mobile. 

Buffing the fire status IS NOT improving Ember, unless her kit effectively takes advantage of it, which it does not.  Her kit is based around self-DR, stacking armour stripping, and set-piece spamcasting, all of which are poorly implemented.  When a fire stat stick (Twin Basolk, Silva & Aegis, Silva & Aegis Prime, and Scoliac with the +heat/+range riven I have for it are what I have tested to this effect) functions better than all of her abilities combined when it comes to killing enemies/stripping armour, she still sucks. 

'Ember' Rant:

Please, put someone on Ember's improvements who has never been assigned to working with 'Ember' before.  At least they may hopefully come up with something that isn't 'gut her again' or 'let's try to make her worse than Vauban', and can (hopefully again) bring something new to the table.  She is now one of two Warframes in the game with NEGATIVE synergies (the other being Valkyr, whose Hysteria drain makes the ability negatively synergise with everything else she has by being useless and draining energy ridiculously, potentially nuking herself with the suicide bubble), and the only one with MULTIPLE NEGATIVE synergies. 

Without the negative synergies, she would be C-tier at best in this rework.  She is so bad that it was painful to dust the cobwebs off of my now-possibly-former main Warframe, Ember, even just to test her.  It was boring, frustrating, and saddening to repeat the tests I did when the update dropped (so that I could write this post); to see once more how far she has fallen with this most recent gutting.  She is not 'Ember' anymore, in every sense of the word.  These changes are practically an insult to anyone who enjoyed playing her, and I'll be putting her in cryostasis until the next major rework for Ember comes along, or the changes are reverted.  If you see air quotes around a previous mention of Ember in this post, it is because 'Ember' is what I call this garbage version of 'it', and Ember without quotes is what she used to be. 

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Almost every single post here about Vauban has mentioned his lack of durability and inadequate utility of his minelayer. No mention of Vauban tweaks on the devstream. Railjack is cool and all, but does anyone from DE actually read this? If so, I think we as a community have made it clear enough that we aren't satisfied with the changes. Please for the love of Natah at least let us know that you're considering it. It's disappointing.

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10 minutes ago, Acquire_Manatees said:

Almost every single post here about Vauban has mentioned his lack of durability and inadequate utility of his minelayer. No mention of Vauban tweaks on the devstream. Railjack is cool and all, but does anyone from DE actually read this? If so, I think we as a community have made it clear enough that we aren't satisfied with the changes. Please for the love of Natah at least let us know that you're considering it. It's disappointing.

Seriously ??? I haven't seen the devstream yet but I was hoping that after 3 weeks of feedback, with a majority of people reporting the same issues, we would have some feedback from the devs this time around...

Well if they're occupied with other content, at least they could tweak some numbers (HP, armor, duration, proc chance, etc...)

They could give me access to their Git if they wish, I promise I'll be reasonable and not go full "Atlas Prime" on his stats :-P

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Another update and another week and no changes to Vauban. You gave us hope and promises 3 weeks ago for more tweaks to Vauban, but nothing has happened since then.

Quote

Vauban Changes:

  • Hot off the feedback train with more to come as we dive deeper:

This was on 26.0.4 patch notes which was 3 weeks ago. How much deeper you have to dive in to make some tweaks for this rework? Heck, even Garuda got buffs in the latest patch. Sure DE got lots on their hands, but I sincerely hope I don't have to wait for months to see some improvements to Vauban's messy kit. Or maybe I'm just too hopeful for my own good, better check back in few years to see if this rework is getting reworked at all...

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3 hours ago, Acquire_Manatees said:

Almost every single post here about Vauban has mentioned his lack of durability and inadequate utility of his minelayer. No mention of Vauban tweaks on the devstream. Railjack is cool and all, but does anyone from DE actually read this? If so, I think we as a community have made it clear enough that we aren't satisfied with the changes. Please for the love of Natah at least let us know that you're considering it. It's disappointing.

Agreed. 😞

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@[DE]Danielle Another patch and even a dev stream addressing 0 of the feed back given to either Vauban or Ember. Is the feedback thread just a wall we're supposed to talk to, to feel as though we actually had a voice?

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6 hours ago, Dempsey_ said:

@[DE]Danielle Another patch and even a dev stream addressing 0 of the feed back given to either Vauban or Ember. Is the feedback thread just a wall we're supposed to talk to, to feel as though we actually had a voice?

Agreed. Would like some type of affirmation or acknowledgement here. Vauban is still a mess and really needs the love paddle. Otherwise he is just going to be shelved again by 99% of the player base. 

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FINALLY got around to playing Ember. I like her, she's now got a very active bounce around and burn the world sort of playstyle vs 'walk around and watch thigns spontaniously ignight.' 

Her 4th augment is a Godsend. Honestly kinda glad it doens't scale because it would be all kinds of busted if power strength affected percentages. as is it is 'just' a very good augment.

 

Her 1 is basically unchanged outside of some much needed cast speed tweaks and adding combo. I consider this a good ability, not great, but 'oh hey. FIRE.' 

her 2... is good in concept but I hate how it gives a sort of punishment for a natural gameplay loop. 

Right Now it feels like: 'hur durr here lets have her armor when in the state you want it feel like a chain clamped around your throat sucking your energy dry... and you should be THANKFUL I did that because I was gonna have ALL of your energy #*!%ing vanish like a fart in the #*!%ing wind when that meter maxes. You're Welcome.'

Her 2 needs a way to avoid becoming like 'just wait for it to max and you're good.' How about instead flip it. After casting her 2 it starts passively draining energy (AT HALF THE RATE IT DOES NOW or possibly a bit more.) If you max that meter out by casting abilities? Foosh it suddenly doesn't drain energy for the next x amount of time (base ten seconds modded by duration.) After that time elapses the meter starts cooling down. The idea being 'This YOU WANT THAT METER UP DON'T YOU?! GET TO CASTING LITTLE MISS KFC! SETTING EVERYTHING ON FIRE IS GOOD! IT IS WHAT YOU DO! BUUUURRRRN BURN THE WORLD! WATCH IT ALL BE PURGED IN HOLY FIRE!'

Her 3? Strips armor, is a nice 'oh crap get them off of me' sort of panic, and feeds into her passive. Solid.

her 4: Hooboy. I love it and at the same time? I dunno. It FEELS good to cast, with its augment it does fun energy giving thigns. It sets survivors on fire. It both feels expensive, and because of how her 2 gives a punishment for ability use? I'm also very 😐 at having to use my abilities. I suspect if the change i suggested were implimented I'd feel a lot better about it.

Her passive is great. This is amazing. Thank you, it encourages the 'set things on fire' gameplay loop... that her 2 punishes her for.

***

As for bauban? 

GET RID OF BOOST PAD! It is just bounce pad turned on its side. Keep the asset if you like. keep the NAME even. However? change it to a speed buff or have it 'boost' shields. Make it give evasion. But this 'Oh hey it's mariuo kart! Woo!' is.. .UGH No.

Give his snicky goo lines either a cap of four enemies per or let them scale off power strength. Either way two enemeis per is just a little not enough for the job.

Damage pad? Is good. It's cheap for what it does and is a nice little throwie.
Nailbomb? I dunno here. It needs something

His 3? Is nice, it's pretty neat. I find his 1 to be more useful, and because he needs surviveability? Idea I had is it heals based on how many enemies it hits. As in 1 enemy hit? 10% health given in a six meter AOE. 2 enemies? 20% in an 8 meter AOE, and so on and so on up to a cap of 100% health  for anyone in a 20 meter AOE. that would grnt him healing, but in a diffrent way that also synergizes with his CC nature and rewarding smart use of his deployables.

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Ember Feedback

I appreciate my ember being tougher now but she doesnt feel like ember either.   

1st Ability - no comment.  Never used fireball, probably never will.   Hate single target direct cast abilities.  Maybe if those kind of abilities homed in on stuff.  

2nd Ability - This rollercoaster mechanic is stupid and not balanced at all.   How many other warframes get 90% damage reduction the entire time it is active??   Nova atleast has to refresh the orbs.  But not only does ember have to put up with the stupid roller coaster its a cheated roller coaster.   The higher your damage reduction/heat scale gets the FASTER it raises and the faster it can burn out completely.   It should be the reverse.. the higher it goes the harder it is to raise the heat so we can maintain 90% a hell of a lot longer.   

But this isnt my biggest problem with the 2nd ability...  Ember went from setting everything around her on fire to only the crap in front of her and even then not killing fast enough.  You also have fireball to kill stuff with but thats only what your aiming at and not very deadly.   Doesnt Nezha have 90% damage reduce, gets to move fast, AND it deals damage to things near it???  Ember needs the same.  2 should deal damage to everything around her within 2-5 meters.   The higher her heat guage the more damage the effect is.   But nothing can altar the range.  Its short range personal area DoT so stuff trying to melee her gets burnt to a crisp.   This is only fair for making her offense so limited to her forward arc and getting rid of WoF.  

3rd ability - no comment, works as intended...  BUT please allow the shockwave to damage breakable objects!!!!!

4th ability - no comment.  I will play the stupid rollercoaster if I must..  But like I said Ember went from killing everything around her with abilities to now only DAMAGING stuff in front of her.  Passive to active.  But she is way more active to play but I feel like I kill waaaaay slower now...

-----------------------------------------------

I pulled out Mag to create my first Lich.  I havent used her in forever.  I tried to make an umbra build to partial success lol.  But you wanna talk about active.  She has to spam her powers to stay alive because she has no armor, and no damage reduction!!!  And because your spamming abilities you have no energy either.   Im not a fan of Damage reduction it never feels like its working to me (and im not talking about adaptation) but man Mag needs something!!.  A way to regen energy or damage reduction.   Or her passive should make her shields hardened 24/7.

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