Jump to content
[DE]Danielle

(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Being honest, I'd rather see that armor buff take the form of a permanent buff to armor that has to be stripped off from hits over time and can be refreshed with enemies trapped in another Bastille similar to Wukong's armor buff.

Vauban is still entirely too squishy after the re-work and survivability has always been his main issue imo.

 

This 

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the people i have encountered after the Vauban rework including myself say that he is now not boring but lets say not fun, i belive i have a solution.
1. Having a maximum of 4 tesla is a bit of a let down, if we combine the previous version of the ability and keep the new aspect of it for the charge it will feel much better, what im saying is - tap tesla to place a sticking tesla (just like it as before the rework) to max of 10? hold the ability to charge and release 4 tesla nervos. You can also combine the old and new augments for it just like you did with bastille and vortex.

2. Make an augment that gives the old minelayer, that way this old tactician can get even more tactical.

3&4 Feel absolutely great right now with the cast speed increase.

Edited by tigara565

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like Vauban’s rework and I’ve been enjoying my time with him but speed pad has got to go, and in minelayer he needs like a mini health station or shield buff/regen or something to give him more survivability.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, alseltas said:

Gauss took not so long to become current state. So hopefully, we would see Vauban gets a love in the second half of December.

When they released Gauss, they didn't have the whole Railjack update in parallel. I think that's why reworks aren't a priority currently, especially since Gauss was brand new (potential platinum sale) while almost everyone already has Vauban/Ember (at least the non prime versions)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After some more testing i decided to do a summary of the new vauban's kit.

Nervos tesla:

Pros:
-teslas are not destroyed by nullifiers bubbles (but they doesn't affect them).
-they have no duration.
-tesla bank provide you good AOE damages.

Cons:
-multiple tesla can jump on the same ennemy.
-it's a "weak" CC, it doesn't work on important targets (boss, index, capture, lich...)
-they are too slow.
-they don't follow you if you move away from affected ennemies.
-they doesnt proc the Vauban's passive (+25% damages on CC ennemies).
-overall they doesn't do much without the augment.
-you need to charge the ability (if you want to throw all the tesla)
-redundant with the rest of the kit (vauban have stronger CC)

Minelayer:

Tether coil:
Pro:
-instant CC.
-the only Vauban's CC that work in index.
-proc Vauban's passive.
Cons:
-affect only 2 ennemies.
-redundant with the rest of the kit.
-stay atteched to dead ennemies.

Vector pad:
Pros:
-can repel ennemie.
Cons:
-can't be used on you while moving (the pad touch the ground too late, you need to slow down to use it).
-if you throw if on your feet, it aim in the wrong direction.
-can be annoying for the allies.
-overall, not usefull enough to justify his presence in Vauban's kit.

Overdriver:
Pros:
-Increase the weapons damages (also work with some abilities).
-can affect allies.
Cons:
-very impractical to use (it's hard to choose precisely your target .
-affect one target at the same time (you need to throw multiple overdrivers to buff the entire squad)
-duration is to low.
-cost too much for what it does (100 energy for th entire squad)
-require too much management (combined with the rest of the kit.

Flechette orb
Pros:
-scaling damages.
-affected by overdriver and by your passive (if ennemies are CC).
-good duration.
-can destroy nullifiers bubbles before touching it.
Cons:
-not accurate.
-small range.

Photons strike:

Pros:
-scaling damages.
-affected by your passive.

Cons:
-Base damages are too low.
-not affected by overdriver.
-explode before touching the ground
-small range (forced synergy with vortex).
-cost too much (75 energy, 175 with vortex, it's way to much for what it does).
-the augment is bland.

Bastille/Vortex:

Pros:
-good AOE CC (for trash mod only...)
-good range
-transfer ennemy armor to you (not that effective)

Cons:
-"weak" CC, it doesn't work on important targets (boss, index, capture, lich...).
-ennemy limit on bastille.
-duration is low.
-armor transfer doesn't work if ennemies are CC by another ability.
-armor is too long too transfer, require armored ennemies and cost too much too maintains for a bonus who is not that great.
-bastille collapse when you throw a vortex (look like it's only here too justify the synergy with photon strike but since it feel forced and not that effective, it's more an issue than an advantages).
-ennemies attracted by vortex can ragdoll in the walls and stay blocked.

General opinion:
-Vauban is way too squishy (i think the main problem is the way the game work in high level), as long as the devs don't address these in-game problems vauban need better stats.
-the abilities's casting time is way too long, natural talent can solve this issue, but currently, Vauban need too many ressource to be effective, the devs need to lower the requirement and give some arguments to his new kit.
-he is supposed "to be the king of CC", in reality, Vauban's CC are rather weak compared to other warframe. For example Khora's strangledome is more interesting than the integrality of the vauban's cc, it's a strong CC (it work vs a lot of target), it synergyse with his first ability (while Vauban's first ability penalize bastille due too the CC overlapping), and it can attract ennemy fire giving you indirect resistance.
-overall multiple weak CC are not better than a single strong CC. That's why Vauban doesn't excel in his speciallity (area CC).As long as endgame ennemies are immune to CC, Vauban won't be able to be on par with the top tier warframes (this is a larger problem, Vauban isn't the only one affected by this but he is one of the worst).

Edited by Icecryos
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Icecryos said:

After some more testing i decided to a summary of the new vauban's kit.

Nervos tesla:

Pros:
-teslas are not destroyed by nullifiers bubbles (but they doesn't affect them).
-they have no duration.
-tesla bank provide you good AOE damages.

Cons:
-multiple tesla can jump on the same ennemy.
-it's a "weak" CC, it doesn't work on important targets (boss, index, capture, lich...)
-they are too slow.
-they don't follow you if you move away from affected ennemies.
-they doesnt proc the Vauban's passive (+25% damages on CC ennemies).
-overall they doesn't do much without the augment.
-you need to charge the ability (if you want to throw all the tesla)
-redundant with the rest of the kit (vauban have stronger CC)

Minelayer:

Tether coil:
Pro:
-instant CC.
-the only Vauban's CC that work in index.
-proc Vauban's passive.
Cons:
-affect only 2 ennemies.
-redundant with the rest of the kit.
-stay atteched to dead ennemies.

Vector pad:
Pros:
-can repel ennemie.
Cons:
-can't be used on you while moving (the pad touch the ground too late, you need to slow down to use it).
-if you throw if on your feet, it aim in the wrong direction.
-can be annoying for the allies.
-overall, not usefull enough to justify his presence in Vauban's kit.

Overdriver:
Pros:
-Increase the weapons damages (also work with some abilities).
-can affect allies.
Cons:
-very impractical to use (it's hard to choose precisely your target .
-affect one target at the same time (you need to throw multiple overdrivers to buff the entire squad)
-duration is to low.
-cost too much for what it does (100 energy for th entire squad)
-require too much management (combined with the rest of the kit.

Flechette orb
Pros:
-scaling damages.
-affected by overdriver and by your passive (if ennemies are CC).
-good duration.
-can destroy nullifiers bubbles before touching it.
Cons:
-not accurate.
-small range.

Photons strike:

Pros:
-scaling damages.
-affected by your passive.

Cons:
-Base damages are too low.
-not affected by overdriver.
-explode before touching the ground
-small range (forced synergy with vortex).
-cost too much (75 energy, 175 with vortex, it's way to much for what it does).
-the augment is bland.

Bastille/Vortex:

Pros:
-good AOE CC (for trash mod only...)
-good range
-transfer ennemy armor to you (not that effective)

Cons:
-"weak" CC, it doesn't work on important targets (boss, index, capture, lich...).
-ennemy limit on bastille.
-duration is low.
-armor transfer doesn't work if ennemies are CC by another ability.
-armor is too long too transfer, require armored ennemies and cost too much too maintains for a bonus who is not that great.
-bastille collapse when you throw a vortex (look like it's only here too justify the synergy with photon strike but since it feel forced and not that effective, it's more an issue than an advantages).
-ennemies attracted by vortex can ragdoll in the walls and stay blocked.

General opinion:
-Vauban is way too squishy (i think the main problem is the way the game work in high level), as long as the devs don't address these in-game problems vauban need better stats.
-the abilities's casting time is way too long, natural talent can solve this issue, but currently, Vauban need too many ressource to be effective, the devs need to lower the requirement and give some arguments to his new kit.
-he is supposed "to be the king on CC", in reality, Vauban's CC are rather weak compared to other warframe. For example Khora's strangledome is more interesting than the integrality of the vauban's cc, it's a strong CC (it work vs a lot of target), it synergyse with his first ability (while Vauban's first ability penalize bastille due too the CC overlapping), and it can attract ennemy fire giving you indirect resistance.
-overall multiple weak CC are not better than a single strong CC. That's why Vauban doesn't excel in his speciallity (area CC).As long as endgame ennemies are immune to CC, Vauban won't be able to be on par with the top tier warframes (this is a larger problem, Vauban isn't the only one affected by this but he is one of the worst).

Totally agree. If I add my opinion the 1000 armor buff is still not enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DE, please. Why are punished for using her abilities if her two (Immolation) is on and the gauge is maxed. Why? Gauss also has a meter and becomes better with it maxed. You use Gauss' abilities so you can max it, and once it is maxed you want to push it further by using more abilities while his 4 is on. Why can't Ember be the same way? By the time you hit 90 with her heat gauge you have to use her expensive Fire Blast just so you don't get penalized with energy drain. And Fire Blast still cost 75 energy even though it's low damage and seemingly based on line of sight. Seriously, her meter should just be innate for one just like Gauss. Using her Fire Ball and Inferno should raise the gauge. Using her Immolation should allow you to use the gauge for damage reduction that scales in the same way that Shattered shield and Splinter Storm, a.k.a. scale with power strength and have an additional trait. The additional trait being the more you fill the heat gauge, the more bonus heat damage you do. According to the Wiki, Fireball gets bonus charge speed the more heat you have and Inferno does more damage the more heat you have along with Fireblast stripping more armor. All this is fine, but the way the heat gauge and Immolation is set up now is if you're low on energy and you see you gauge hit max you might not have enough energy to cast Fireblast to lower you temperature. So you then have to turn off Immolation and lose your damage reduction. It's actually more energy efficient to turn off Immolation when your heat is maxed but than you have to start the process of building heat again leaving you vulnerable. Neither Gauss, Mesa, nor Gara have these problems yet the have similar mechanics. These issue can be fixed if you make the Heat gauge cool off with time and using her 3 (and make her 3 cheaper) while allowing her to get damage reduction that scales with power strength and stop having Immolation drain energy. Please make it 50 energy to cast and have it scale in damage reduction like Shatter Shield and Splinter Storm.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please give Vauban an ammo drop box instead of that puncture grenade 

It is scale-able into endgame without touching damage output, extremely necessary Warframe ability addition, would increase Vauban's usage by a lot, make him an irreplaceable warframe for specific tasks. 

It would also give me a reason to respect Vauban Prime, since raids aren't a thing anymore mine is rightfully collecting dust. Since ya'll wanna know what the MR 27's b doin

I appreciate the buffs, but the idea of using him in game for any reason seems just as unnecessary as before he was reworked, although I'm sure people are having lots of fun. Also a little defensive boost would be appreciated, but that would be overboard and make him too powerful

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Please give Vauban an ammo drop box instead of that puncture grenade 

It is scale-able into endgame without touching damage output, extremely necessary Warframe ability addition, would increase Vauban's usage by a lot, make him an irreplaceable warframe for specific tasks. 

Out of all of the weird ideas I've heard to replace Flechette with, which is flat-out one of the strongest abilities in the game, this one is the worst by far. Running out of ammo is such a damn rarity in this game, an ability that replenishes it would be the single most niche thing in the game.

  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Colyeses said:

Out of all of the weird ideas I've heard to replace Flechette with, which is flat-out one of the strongest abilities in the game, this one is the worst by far. Running out of ammo is such a damn rarity in this game, an ability that replenishes it would be the single most niche thing in the game.

Especially since primaries and secondaries have exilus mod slots which you could put in an ammo mutation.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Please give Vauban an ammo drop box instead of that puncture grenade 

It is scale-able into endgame without touching damage output, extremely necessary Warframe ability addition, would increase Vauban's usage by a lot, make him an irreplaceable warframe for specific tasks. 

It would also give me a reason to respect Vauban Prime, since raids aren't a thing anymore mine is rightfully collecting dust. Since ya'll wanna know what the MR 27's b doin

I appreciate the buffs, but the idea of using him in game for any reason seems just as unnecessary as before he was reworked, although I'm sure people are having lots of fun. Also a little defensive boost would be appreciated, but that would be overboard and make him too powerful

Have consoles got the update or are you basing your opinion on videos ? Have you used flechette ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tatann said:

Have consoles got the update or are you basing your opinion on videos ? Have you used flechette ?

 

We have the update. used it. does virtually nothing 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tatann said:

Have consoles got the update or are you basing your opinion on videos ? Have you used flechette ?

 

Consoles haven't receive the "stealth" buff to Flechette yet. Their nail orbs are just doing base damage without level scaling ATM.

  • Woah 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

We have the update. used it. does virtually nothing 

Ok, you have the update, but not THE update, just wait and see ;-)

  • Woah 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

WHERE???

Everywhere. It's not a high bar to pass but flechettes can gun down enemies at really high level, do not compete with gunplay since they're off-handed damage, and you can maintain up to four of them, and they pair well with Vauban's other abilities, like tether, overdriver, bastille and vortex. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Colyeses said:

Everywhere. It's not a high bar to pass but flechettes can gun down enemies at really high level, do not compete with gunplay since they're off-handed damage, and you can maintain up to four of them, and they pair well with Vauban's other abilities, like tether, overdriver, bastille and vortex. 

Like PsiWarp said, consoles haven't received the buff to Flechette yet, I understand why they could find underwhelming at high level.

I use them a lot in missions where Vauban is supposed to shine (interception, excavation, defense, ...), just drop a Vortex or Bastille (to remove armor from Grineer) and 2 Flechettes paired with it, and you can very easily hold 2 points while killing enemies.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Tatann said:

Like PsiWarp said, consoles haven't received the buff to Flechette yet, I understand why they could find underwhelming at high level.

That must be it then.

That level-based scaling on ability damage is quite possibly one of the best things DE has done for Warframe this year.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Colyeses said:

That must be it then.

That level-based scaling on ability damage is quite possibly one of the best things DE has done for Warframe this year.

I agree, I think it started with abilities like Oberon's Smite dealing a percentage of enemy HP, or Nidus/Saryn ability damage growing as long as you "maintain" it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Colyeses said:

Everywhere. It's not a high bar to pass but flechettes can gun down enemies at really high level, do not compete with gunplay since they're off-handed damage, and you can maintain up to four of them, and they pair well with Vauban's other abilities, like tether, overdriver, bastille and vortex. 

Apparently we don't have a particular update yet on Xbox that adds the scaling bit, it just tickles things and disappears for me. 

As I see it, would be better served as an ammo buff. Would be awesome to see a frame give all surrounding teammates that as well. My Kuva Kohm takes ammo and I'm not ashamed to use it, great endgame synergy I want to use. 

Also, what's up with the boost pad? That's not faster than me operator zooming or even bullet jumping. Why isn't that an armor buff or something for survivability?  I mean at least make it a suit of speed boost, reload speed, fire rate, charge rate for team. Vauban is more than a meme! 

You make good points and I understand he is fun, but I'm still not using him because he'd be useful to my team. If those few changes were made, he'd be EXTREMELY USEFUL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Apparently we don't have a particular update yet on Xbox that adds the scaling bit, it just tickles things and disappears for me. 

As I see it, would be better served as an ammo buff. Would be awesome to see a frame give all surrounding teammates that as well. My Kuva Kohm takes ammo and I'm not ashamed to use it, great endgame synergy I want to use. 

Also, what's up with the boost pad? That's not faster than me operator zooming or even bullet jumping. Why isn't that an armor buff or something for survivability?  I mean at least make it a suit of speed boost, reload speed, fire rate, charge rate for team. Vauban is more than a meme! 

You make good points and I understand he is fun, but I'm still not using him because he'd be useful to my team. If those few changes were made, he'd be EXTREMELY USEFUL

With the update, Flechette becomes great, you'll see, but it's now a consensus that boost pad must go, and that Vauban lacks survivability (so replacing boost pad with any survivability skill would be obvious)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tatann said:

it's now a consensus that boost pad must go

I like that consensus. 

Can we add a warframe(power) that gives back ammo like Moze from Borderlands cause I be spraying idc idc idc 

Can that be a new consensus?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Apparently we don't have a particular update yet on Xbox that adds the scaling bit, it just tickles things and disappears for me. 

Oh, it's not just a bit. It's an end multiplier of (enemy level - 1)/10 + 1, rounded down. So against a level 11 enemy, it already deals double damage, and against a level 91 enemy, it deals 10 times the damage.

20 minutes ago, (XB1)DarknessZeref said:

Also, what's up with the boost pad? That's not faster than me operator zooming or even bullet jumping. Why isn't that an armor buff or something for survivability?  I mean at least make it a suit of speed boost, reload speed, fire rate, charge rate for team. Vauban is more than a meme! 

I think virtually everyone wants that thing gone. It's utterly pointless. My main suggestion is either leaving the spot open so Vauban can toggle between his regular kit and his minelayer kit, akin to how Equinox can switch between day and night, to make the controls easier, or to have it replaced with a canister that spews the same green vapour that Warframes use to revive each other. Throw it on a downed ally to automatically pick them up, and have the AoE apply a heal over time. Synergises well with the Bastille armour buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Early impressions of Vauban so far:

mixed bag is a good summary.  I like how his new 4 is.  The armor strip into armor buff interaction feels a bit too slow imo.  And it limits you to sitting inside the circle.  His new 3 is interesting.  But the setup for it seems a little...heavy.  And the damage itself is nice but you absolutely need to strip armor for it to be worth in later content.  I'm not sure why i'd ever go for that setup when tesla bank is quicker and arguably scales better.  And the augment for his 3 is nice since it's held indefinitely until you use it again.  But I can't really see any situation where i'd use the augment.

The damage buff in minelayer is neat but base values are far too low.  His 1 is really nice now.  But I wish they moved faster and had a better stun chance.  Overall he still really feels like a gimmicky cc frame.  Which is a bit disappointing because the rework was meant to address that.  Fighting enemies who are cc immune is still a very big problem for him.  And he still has basically nothing innately that gives him better survivability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going over the last many pages of Vauban Feedback it appears that most agree on two things:

Vauban needs more survivability than he has currently.

Vector Pad is no more popular than bounce pad was.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...