Jump to content
[DE]Danielle

(PC) Ember & Vauban Revisited Feedback

Recommended Posts

I feel like Ember is worthless without World on Fire. Definitely a huge debuff. She was my most played warframe in the past, but now that I've returned to the game to find her in shambles, I may not continue playing. If I do keep playing I'm going to have to switch her out for a more effective frame. This hurts me considering I have a couple hundred hours logged where I ENJOYED using her.

 

Edited by LordKarlar
I didn't think my post expressed how strongly I felt.
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, (PS4)Kubbes said:

For me, the biggest loss for Ember is her Flash. That was very useful and powerful. I used it even more than wof.

It could stunned the enemies, make them weaker, boost your team with the augment...

It was really interesting.

Her actual 3 should be a Flash again.

I agree, Ember needed a rework on her 1st and 3rd abilities, that's all. If it ain't broke, don't fix it bro honestly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-12-06 at 1:32 PM, Tatann said:

Waiting with anticipation for tonight (Europe) devstream, I hope they talk about the feedback on Ember and Vauban, and especially announce some tweaks coming soon (TM), or even "mini-rework" 🙂

Still testing some new builds on Vauban, ability strength isn't so bad on him in the end, problem is it's hard to upgrade every aspects (range, duration, strength, efficiency and survivability)

I did this myself and ended up just using a high range high duration build with some survivability. This is of course a pure CC build with zero emphasis on damage. The problem with his kit besides survivability is that his abilities rely on every stat. This limits builds to basically the individual ability you want to base your ability around. Mine is built around Vortex for instance and I use Tesla Nervos as a distraction with my weapons as the damage source. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Azrael_V said:

I did this myself and ended up just using a high range high duration build with some survivability. This is of course a pure CC build with zero emphasis on damage. The problem with his kit besides survivability is that his abilities rely on every stat. This limits builds to basically the individual ability you want to base your ability around. Mine is built around Vortex for instance and I use Tesla Nervos as a distraction with my weapons as the damage source. 

 

Problem is I find range actually hurts Vortex (enemies stuck on walls/ceiling)

And if you put Overextended, you kill Bastille, unless you put Repelling Bastille (using another mod slot), and the augment is working "meh" (4 second cooldown), and even though, you can say goodbye to armor stripping/buffing

It's kind of a nightmare to build him since he needs, I think, at least 3 mods for survivability for higher level missions, and you can't really improve range or duration, and the base stats are already low (10m, 15 seconds), compared with Nova/Mag who can CC on 90m just building for duration

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Tatann said:

Problem is I find range actually hurts Vortex (enemies stuck on walls/ceiling)

And if you put Overextended, you kill Bastille, unless you put Repelling Bastille (using another mod slot), and the augment is working "meh" (4 second cooldown), and even though, you can say goodbye to armor stripping/buffing

It's kind of a nightmare to build him since he needs, I think, at least 3 mods for survivability for higher level missions, and you can't really improve range or duration, and the base stats are already low (10m, 15 seconds), compared with Nova/Mag who can CC on 90m just building for duration

Yeah I agree. Although I don't use Bastille only Vortex. Personally  I don't mind enemies being stuck as long as they are subdued and not firing at me which helps with survivability. Same reason I don't mind Khora's Strangledome which also locks enemies on certain maps. The missions only take abit longer.

On survivability; even if they increased his armor to say 300 there's no room for Steel/Umbral Fibre. Every stat or aspect as you've said has positive and negative affects on his abilities. Corrupted mods make things worse by adversely affecting his abilities and straight mods take up too many slots. That's why I play pure CC and make due with stuck enemies. Eventually I use others frames with less drawbacks. 

 

Edited by Azrael_V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

Yeah I agree. Although I don't use Bastille only Vortex. Personally  I don't mind enemies being stuck as long as they are subdued and not firing at me which helps with survivability. Same reason I don't mind Khora's Strangledome which also locks enemies on certain maps. The missions only take abit longer.

On survivability; even if they increased his armor to say 300 there's no room for Steel/Umbral Fibre. Every stat or aspect as you've said has positive and negative affects on his abilities. Corrupted mods make things worse. That's why I play pure CC and make due with stuck enemies. Eventually I use others frames with less drawbacks. 

 

If you like a bit of strength on your Vauban (which is useless if you only need Vortex), on the contrary, with Umbral Fiber and Umbral Vitality, you'd end up tankier than Frost thanks to the armor buff from Bastille, which would build up pretty quickly thanks to the 166% strength, by using only 2 mods (Umbral Vitality and Adaptation). So you get more survivability from less mod slots (for survivability). Of course if you don't like strength... ;-)

Or you could put a single maxed Overextended and reach 190% range without hurting strength (you end up around 100%) and thus saving Bastille, Photon Strike and Flechette

I think 300 armor is a bit much as a buff (although it fits more than the armor values of Khora or ExcalUmbra visually), I think Oberon values would fit Vauban (a bit more HP, 200-250 armor)

Edited by Tatann

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Tatann said:

If you like a bit of strength on your Vauban (which is useless if you only need Vortex), on the contrary, with Umbral Fiber and Umbral Vitality, you'd end up tankier than Frost thanks to the armor buff from Bastille, which would build up pretty quickly thanks to the 166% strength, by using only 2 mods (Umbral Vitality and Adaptation). So you get more survivability from less mod slots (for survivability). Of course if you don't like strength... 😉

Or you could put a single maxed Overextended and reach 190% range without hurting strength (you end up around 100%) and thus saving Bastille, Photon Strike and Flechette

I think 300 armor is a bit much as a buff (although it fits more than the armor values of Khora or ExcalUmbra visually), I think Oberon values would fit Vauban (a bit more HP, 200-250 armor)

I cant bring up my build as I'm not at home but I definitely have no room for Adaptation which I use for frames like Gauss. And it helps tremendously. Yes 300 would be armor abit much. Personally I would rather have his survivability depend on an ability. Mesa's Shattershield comes to mind or something that reduces AOE/projectile damage which seems to be Vauban's bain. But yeah Oberon's stats are definitely more balanced. I mean my Saryn can take more hits before I need to cast Molt. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

I cant bring up my build as I'm not at home but I definitely have no room for Adaptation which I use for frames like Gauss. And it helps tremendously. Yes 300 would be armor abit much. Personally I would rather have his survivability depend on an ability. Mesa's Shattershield comes to mind or something that reduces AOE/projectile damage which seems to be Vauban's bain. But yeah Oberon's stats are definitely more balanced. I mean my Saryn can take more hits before I need to cast Molt. 

If you dread OHK from AoE / rockets, like any Vauban player should, the Nullifier bubble should do the trick : it would stop a few shots (Nulli's Lanka, Eximus AoE burst, Toxic Ancient burp, Bombard rocket) while not allowing Vauban to face-tank a Heavy Gunner (the bubble would be shredded by rapid fire).

I know, I sound like a broken record with the Nullibubble :'(

 

Here's my current build :

Aura : Aerodynamic (24% airborne DR + 6 second gliding)

Exilus : Aviator (40% airborne DR, so 64% combined)

Then :

Umbral Vitality (850 HP)

Umbral Intensify (155% strength)

Adaptation

Constitution + Primed Continuity (183% duration)

Streamline (130% efficiency)

Stretch + Augur Reach (175% range)

 

And the MOA with Tractor Beam to get up to 12 seconds of aim gliding, and the bubble shield cause I desperately want a bubble shield ^^

So as soon as I start taking a bit too much damage, I start aim gliding to fully benefit from the DR, and if my health really start to get low (despite all the DR from Adaptation and bonus armor from Bastille), I can simply perform a heavy ground slam (since I'm already airborne) on an enemy to restore health with Life Strike

 

At first it felt kinda weird but now I feel weird playing other frames without so much gliding time (I think base value is 3 seconds)

Edited by Tatann

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Tatann said:

If you dread OHK from AoE / rockets, like any Vauban player should, the Nullifier bubble should do the trick : it would stop a few shots (Nulli's Lanka, Eximus AoE burst, Toxic Ancient burp, Bombard rocket) while not allowing Vauban to face-tank a Heavy Gunner (the bubble would be shredded by rapid fire).

I know, I sound like a broken record with the Nullibubble 😢

 

Here's my current build :

Aura : Aerodynamic (24% airborne DR + 6 second gliding)

Exilus : Aviator (40% airborne DR, so 64% combined)

Then :

Umbral Vitality (850 HP)

Umbral Intensify (155% strength)

Adaptation

Constitution + Primed Continuity (183% duration)

Streamline (130% efficiency)

Stretch + Augur Reach (175% range)

 

And the MOA with Tractor Beam to get up to 12 seconds of aim gliding, and the bubble shield cause I desperately want a bubble shield ^^

So as soon as I start taking a bit too much damage, I start aim gliding to fully benefit from the DR, and if my health really start to get low (despite all the DR from Adaptation and bonus armor from Bastille), I can simply perform a heavy ground slam (since I'm already airborne) on an enemy to restore health with Life Strike

 

At first it felt kinda weird but now I feel weird playing other frames without so much gliding time (I think base value is 3 seconds)

It seems we're on the same track of thinking. I also built a MOA specifically for Vauban. The Lambo MOA with the DR field. Alas higher AOE Bombard fire kills both Vauban and the MOA. Its hilarious. The fact that you have to rely on Airborne DR proves the fact that Vauban's survivability is beyond subpar. My playstyle currently is more stop and start. Cast Vortex, suck'em in, clear and move on. I hope thats not what DE had in mind.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Tatann said:

If you dread OHK from AoE / rockets, like any Vauban player should, the Nullifier bubble should do the trick : it would stop a few shots (Nulli's Lanka, Eximus AoE burst, Toxic Ancient burp, Bombard rocket) while not allowing Vauban to face-tank a Heavy Gunner (the bubble would be shredded by rapid fire).

I know, I sound like a broken record with the Nullibubble 😢

 

Here's my current build :

Aura : Aerodynamic (24% airborne DR + 6 second gliding)

Exilus : Aviator (40% airborne DR, so 64% combined)

Then :

Umbral Vitality (850 HP)

Umbral Intensify (155% strength)

Adaptation

Constitution + Primed Continuity (183% duration)

Streamline (130% efficiency)

Stretch + Augur Reach (175% range)

 

And the MOA with Tractor Beam to get up to 12 seconds of aim gliding, and the bubble shield cause I desperately want a bubble shield ^^

So as soon as I start taking a bit too much damage, I start aim gliding to fully benefit from the DR, and if my health really start to get low (despite all the DR from Adaptation and bonus armor from Bastille), I can simply perform a heavy ground slam (since I'm already airborne) on an enemy to restore health with Life Strike

 

At first it felt kinda weird but now I feel weird playing other frames without so much gliding time (I think base value is 3 seconds)

This is exactly what I was planning to do with my build more or less (maybe bit more power strength). But airborne dr and moa defense.

It's sad that we have to go to such lengths. Essentially playing him like a weird zephyr...

 

Just change vector pad to the corpus shield and hes good to go. I'm ready to settle for that lol.

Edited by (PS4)Absoluteboxer
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree it's sad I have to build (and adapt playstyle) so much for survivability, while most frames will get the same result with a simple ability or better stats, but I like to be able to play Vauban at high level (at low level enemies die so fast killed by allies that your abilities don't matter)

But I end up liking this aerial playstyle, mainly in big rooms (or open world obviously)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vauban can use a speed buff to his casting animations, including his 4th. Spamming Bastile was faster than the slowed down over dramatic cast. He’s throwing Bastiles, not Pokéballs.

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New vauban is really fun and engaging the only thing I would change is as past people said, making the flachette orb and orbital strike a little beefier. But the biggest thing I noticed is you guys actually kinda nerfed his Bastille by decreasing its base range and duration. If you just gave us those back he would already be miles better. The increase in range in duration would make his armor buff easier to achieve and armor strip Would hit more targets. On top of that he could lock down bigger areas on the map. That of course is a big deal for him. Otherwise, you guys nailed it. Made vauban a much more exciting frame to play.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

flachette orb and orbital strike scale with enemies level so they are very strong already

that is if orbital strike does damage at all cause sometimes it bugs out and does nothing, or if it hits anything because throw distance is super short

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, this thread got "unstickied", I hope that doesn't mean we can say goodbye to feedback on our feedback...

  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Let's hope Ivara Prime hotfix comes with more Vauban goodies.

Or even better, today's major update \o/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tatann said:

Well, this thread got "unstickied", I hope that doesn't mean we can say goodbye to feedback on our feedback...

Unfortunately, that is what it means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*sigh* Not sure if they are even paying any attention to this topic anymore (or did after maybe the first one or two days after the initial rework). At this point I would be just fine with few small tweaks to make Vauban generally more comfortable to play.

 

1. Remove the forced Bastille > Vortex conversion. I can't repeat this one enough, it's so darn annoying and completely destroys the point of Bastille. Perfect solution would be tap = Bastille, hold = Vortex, removing the conversion completely would give Vauban more options to choose the correct CC for any situation. The conversion gimmick is just clumsy to use.

2. Remove the homing of Photon Strike into Vortex. This one is also so darn annoying that you try and try to aim your Photon Strike at enemies, but instead it clips the radius of a nearby Vortex and flies off to a completely different direction. Also not to mention that your Photon Strike can home into OTHER players Vortexes as well. Because of this and the "recent" buff to Flechette Orb, it's just generally better to use that instead.

3. Overdriver STILL sticks to EVERYTHING. That means sentinels, excavators, rescue targets and heck even your own damn tesla rollers. It's almost impossible to micromanage and feels like a chore to use. Just make it simply stick to the Vauban player and give its buff to allies in a radius around the player.

4. Lower the energy cost of his 4 to 75 and 3 to 50. He's a caster frame now and drains his energy way faster than before. It doesn't help that his only survivability tool Bastille now has a whopping 100 energy cost. Photon Strike on the other hand is one time "grenade" and costs too much compared to what it does. Flechette Orb almost makes it redundant to even cast his Photon Strike.

5. Tether Coil is still bugged. The tether effects linger on dead bodies and makes it hard to see what it actually grabs. Not to mention the grabbing mostly causes enemies to get stuck pretty much all over the geometry. Just fix the tether effects on dead bodies and make the pull faster and more aggressive (wiggling around before reaching the tether point) to avoid enemies getting stuck.

 

I could say a word about his survivability or the redundant Vector Pad, but these small things are much easier to fix/change and go a long way for my general enjoyment with Vauban.

Edited by Judqment8
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-31 at 7:08 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

EMBER REVISITED

Expand the spoilers below for the full list of changes for Ember:

  Hide contents

 

New Passive: Receive 5% Ability Strength for every enemy within a 50m engulfed in flame (up to a cap). 

FIREBALL
Works fundamentally the same as it does now - tap for quick fire, hold to charge for greater impact. Enemies already inflicted by any Heat Status effect will now take additional damage. 

Fireball has a casting combo, if you use it multiple times rapidly it gets stronger.

The damage output and charge speed also scale off of one of Ember’s newest abilities...
 
IMMOLATION (replacing Accelerant)
Time for a history lesson! Prior to Update 11.5, Ember’s second ability used to be “Overheat”, offering an aura of heat damage which also protected her from enemy fire. Almost SIX years later, it’s time for this ring of fire to come full circle.

When cast, Ember Immolates herself with protective fire armor. Her current level of self-Immolation is indicated by a unique UI indicator; the higher the heat, the more damage resistance, and the more effective Ember’s other abilities become.

The Immolation meter will build slowly at first - using Ember’s Fireball or Inferno causes the meter to build faster. But be warned! If the meter reaches maximum, Ember will “overheat” and Immolation will cost progressively more energy per second the longer you stay in an overheated state. To prevent this from happening, use Fire Blast to expel a portion of your heat meter, or toggle Immolation off to reset meter build.
 
FIRE BLAST
Casting time has been greatly reduced, and the ability now strips armor from nearby enemies. The amount of armor removed scales in effectiveness based on current Immolation levels. On cast, this immediately reduces your Immolation level by up to half.

INFERNO (replacing World On Fire)
Upon casting Inferno, all enemies currently within sight are struck by a fiery comet, lighting each target ablaze in a personal ring of fire. Inferno costs Energy per each target in sight, with the cost capped at 10 targets.

If an enemy ignited by Inferno comes in contact with another unit, the fire will spread, igniting them as well with a fresh ability duration. Damage of the heat AoE scales with current Immolation level.

With these changes, players will take a more active role in “bringing the heat” to all that stand in their way, with added protection that encapsulates Ember’s volatile nature.


Ember Augment Changes:

  • Fireball: Fireball Frenzy: This augment is unchanged.
  • Immolation: Flash Accelerant is now Immolated Radiance: Allies within Affinity range will receive 50% of Immolation’s Damage Reduction.
  • Fire Blast: Fire Fright is now Healing Flame: Each enemy hit heals Ember by 25 to 50 based on the level of the Immolation meter.
  • Inferno: Firequake is now Exothermic: Enemies killed while under the effect of Inferno have a 15% chance to drop an Energy Orb.

 

 

I got back on Warframe after a longer break, to check out the new stuff and things. to my surprise you've reworked Ember (My Main Frame) to "better survive" and you literally broke her completely.
I'm not very fond of the meta of just rushing through the missions not fighting the enemies or anything else than getting to the extraction. NOT FUN! IMO.
So i have always felt forced to play the game Solo, but with your 'Rework' and 'improvements' on Ember it's become literally impossible. Missions i was breezing through alone, are now un-doable alone.
I've spent alot of Forma's and other S#&$ to upgrade my Ember and Ember Prime through the time, and buff up World of Fire. But now even a Rank 12 Mirage(with no catalyst or anything) is stronger than a buffed out Ember Prime. WHY? WHY? WHY?! 

.... Please give me my old Ember abilities back/Undo the 'Rework'...

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Tatann said:

Well they boosted Flechette. Although a nice buff, I hope that's not what they meant by deeper

Oh god I hope not! They still need to use VectorPad to launch VectorPad from his kit and give us something defensive.
 

Spoiler

infinity war avengers GIF by Marvel Studios

 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Daxii said:

I got back on Warframe after a longer break, to check out the new stuff and things. to my surprise you've reworked Ember (My Main Frame)

.... Please give me my old Ember abilities back/Undo the 'Rework'...

These are the most relevant posts. This guy has never posted on the forums, but came back- saw the nonsense and felt it necessary JUST LIKE I DID. Please listen DE, we're wealthy, smart people who do not feel inclined to financially support nerfs to everything we enjoy this holiday season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...