(PC) Melee Phase 2: TECHNIQUES Feedback

[(PSN)Siruta]

(Yeah I'm on PS4. I don't have the update yet. Shoot me about it.) From all that I've seen, it seems like the combos seem really basic and mindless after a while. Yeah, they may be fun but it all seems a bit too simple. What if we have branching combos and/or repeatable attacks in the "more advanced" stances for a little more 'umph' or power. I feel like adding repeatable attacks on some of the smaller weapons (swords, daggers, whatnot) might help and make them feel a little more fun, while branching combos could help heavy weapons or complex weapons feel a little more powerful and intricate. What do you guys think?

[ArcKnight9202]

The stance, Sinking Talon, for dual daggers only has forward moving combos. While it's not unusable, it is a little annoying having to circle around the enemy because you must advance. I hope to see a stationary combo added in the future.

Edit: The stance, Brutal Tide, for sparring weapons, also has the same problem. There is no stationary combo.

Edited November 11, 2019 by ArcKnight9202

[vaarnaaarne]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Siruta said:

(Yeah I'm on PS4. I don't have the update yet. Shoot me about it.) From all that I've seen, it seems like the combos seem really basic and mindless after a while. Yeah, they may be fun but it all seems a bit too simple. What if we have branching combos and/or repeatable attacks in the "more advanced" stances for a little more 'umph' or power. I feel like adding repeatable attacks on some of the smaller weapons (swords, daggers, whatnot) might help and make them feel a little more fun, while branching combos could help heavy weapons or complex weapons feel a little more powerful and intricate. What do you guys think?

The problem is mostly in the speed of Warframe. You need to keep it simple because it's possible and likely that the player will be swinging a sharp stick at absurd speeds. Simple input combo loops are the best fit for this, they allow for fast enough reaction to give the melee a certain flow to it. A secondary problem is that because most enemies are going to die really fast, advanced techniques do not really have a place in the core system.

Ideally we'd have two attack buttons and twice the combo loops. Not so much branching but more directions to flow into. Currently Heavy Attacks (with a few exceptions like Sword-Whip) are a clunky pause in the flow. Ideally we'd have a full second set of combo loops for Heavy Attacks (and no combo counter malarkies possibly added to by Blood Rush/Gladiator to disincentivize using them).

[--Q--Poeps]

The new melee combo counting system with its trivial linearity and 220 hit limit is boring, please bring back the previous one and adjust Blood Rush, Weeping Wounds and Gladiator Set Bonus accordingly.

[vaarnaaarne]

We should really get rid of the combo counter, it is a mechanic with only negative effects even before we add in how much damage it has done to gameplay now and before once mods factor in.

[supernils]

Whip stance "Burning Wasp"

(the one nobody used before the rework)

I don't see people using it now either.

Problem I have with it: the forward combo locks you in place while the neutral combo moves you forward.

I hope you redo these combos, even just swapping them out for each other would be positive.

 

[MistressKukla]

Not sure if this already being said, but I have an issue with a new system that really hurts the fluidity of combat for heavy attack focused builds.

The problem is simple. Currently, to use a heavy attack outside of melee mode we need to switch to melee weapon by making a default melee attack (or by holding a weapon switch button to enter a full melee mode), and only then we can proceed with execution of heavy attacks.

So for example I'm holding my primary weapon and want to make a heavy attack with my melee. I'm tapping a heavy attack button and nothing happens. So I need to tap my default melee attack to quickly switch to melee and only after that I'll be able to use a heavy attack.
That feels really clunky in situations where you are switching weapons a lot.

So it would be really nice if we could be able to switch from primary/secondary to melee and instantly execute a heavy attack by simply tapping a heavy attack button.

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by MistressKukla

[Williams]

Gunblade stances awful, very uncontrollable, i think you need overhaul again this stances.

[supernils]

 

Wise Razor

block+forward combo has no immediate forward movement, only after 1 or 2 hits and is thus useless. You cannot predict needing a forward movement after 2 hits...

Swirling Tiger

block+forward combo his a tiny awkward hit box, it's super hard hitting anything with it. useless

 

Example for a usable block+forward combo is Blind Justice

[KitMeHarder]

 

[Shards-of-a-Soul]

Could we get an option to allow auto-parrying during "full" melee mode? I love manual blocking so I can still aim glide without switching, but blocking itself isn't very useful manually. During "quick" melee with its auto-parry, it's very useful. It negates a surprising amount of damage in between your attacks, it's really fluid and smooth due to being automatic and not interrupting or restricting your actions, and it looks and feels really good. But this is lost when using only melee for some reason? I understand some people hate auto-parry, which I cannot understand, but I'd love a setting under control options to allow full melee to auto-parry.

[Haranthus]

Not completely enjoying either Staff Stance.

Clashing Forest feels clunky and its hit boxes feel weird.  They're not terrible, but I feel like I have to play at a diagonal to make those staff twirl moves hit.  But the biggest problem is the gap closer maneuver - that cartwheel feels awful.  It doesn't seem to hit anything and it doesn't fit the stance.  Why the heck am I suddenly doing cartwheels? This stance is my preferred stance because I guess I can deal with the bad gap closer and slightly wonky hit boxes because at least I can combo and kill with it.

Flailing Branch was just a straight up no.  The moves don't flow together at all. The collision boxes feel weird, the moves have all these pauses in them.  I can be standing right in front of an enemy and just whiff over and over. The gap closer makes sense though.  I think the moves look dynamic, but they just feel awful and it's really hard to get a combo going.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Haranthus

[Sailears]

17 hours ago, MistressKukla said:

Not sure if this already being said, but I have an issue with a new system that really hurts the fluidity of combat for heavy attack focused builds.

The problem is simple. Currently, to use a heavy attack outside of melee mode we need to switch to melee weapon by making a default melee attack (or by holding a weapon switch button to enter a full melee mode), and only then we can proceed with execution of heavy attacks.

So for example I'm holding my primary weapon and want to make a heavy attack with my melee. I'm tapping a heavy attack button and nothing happens. So I need to tap my default melee attack to quickly switch to melee and only after that I'll be able to use a heavy attack.
That feels really clunky in situations where you are switching weapons a lot.

So it would be really nice if we could be able to switch from primary/secondary to melee and instantly execute a heavy attack by simply tapping a heavy attack button.

 

This is the main gripe I have also.

Love a lot of the other features, but we should be able to tap and use heavy melee when in primary/secondary weapon - not have to switch to melee or perform a light attack first.

 

[ADDpillz]

I get that maiming strike needed to get toned down but now its completely useless and all rivens that had slide CC are pretty much useless.

It also doesn't "stack" with the combo meter like it was supposed to.

There are plenty of slide/spin attacks in the combo stances, why doesn't it affect those attacks?

[2ndPersonPlural]

I feel like there's no reason to use equipped melee mode.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only advantages I can find are gliding while blocking and the tactical dodges.

Compare that to quick melee mode, which has autoblocking and instant gun access.

Is there any good reason not to have autoblocking in equipped melee mode?  You could leave manual blocking as well to get the block glides.

[ShatteredFate71]

The only thing irking me right now with the Stance changes is TempoRoyal. The forward combo and neutral combo should be switched as the current forward combo locks you in place and the neutral seems to be more suited for moving while being used

 

[Morgana_Arcana]

Hey hope this gets out there, I just have one issue personally.

Since melee mode doesn't allow firing, I should be able to bind left click to heavy attack since click goes unused. (Like how channeling used to work). However, if I bind heavy attack to left click, it removes the binding for fire! Goal: allow binding of both fire and heavy melee on click to avoid needing extra keys.

Fixing this would really help me enjoy the new features, thanks!

[LizardsOnCrack]

Melee feels a lot slower now. A lot of weapons had their speed upped a bit but the damage of them all just doesn't kill things as easily save for a select few melees. 

It just makes it feel a lot less powerful and more like death by a thousand (very quickly delivered) cuts. A lot of my favorite weapons just aren't usable at around lvl 40 anymore, even after trying hybrid/status/crit builds. I'd have been fine with just a maiming strike nerf and a buff to some of the worst off melees.

 

Many combos just got swapped or mixed around and it's not fun having to completely stop moving to use some combos.

 

Instant loss of the whole combo meter even when you miss a heavy attack is just awful. Combo counter damage scaling being removed makes melee feel samey, melee is seemingly becoming just short range guns. Would have been more fun to give some guns a combo for consecutive shots like snipers have but toned down a bit.

Juggling enemies just isn't fun, it makes what you're trying to kill start to float away. And it doesn't work on all enemies, which just makes them glow. With shorter range melee you have to jump to get to them and by then gauss already blew through and murdered everything with their galatine prime.

[Sikelh]

I like having melee mode back but holy balls did they butcher stances. Especially Tempo Royal and Blind Justice. Holding block and forward needs to go back to being the double flip into slam on Tempo.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

Crushing ruin's RMB+E combo, Winding Temper, seems to have a little too much time on the end of the animation before you can move again.

Even if you only shave off half a second, or even a quarter second from the end of the animation, it would go a long way to making it feel more fluid when transitioning from that attack back to using your guns, for example.

[Alphas]

As it stands, heavy attacks are pointless.  It is far more valuable to not use heavy attacks as you are able to conserve Blood Rush stacks which dramatically increase your damage potential.  This can be solved by having heavy attacks not consume all of your combo meter for one attack.

Block combos when performed in the quick-melee system feel bad (and have felt bad since Phase 1) since when you finish the block combo your attack mode is defaulted back to your gun since you were "aiming."  Please change this so that only aiming when not in an attack combo takes you out of quick melee.

Decisive Judgement's base attack and forward combos seem to be switched as the base combo has slight momentum to it while the forward combo seems to be the old quick-melee spam.  If this was intentional, please switch them as the forward combo feels VERY bad to use.

[ArcKnight9202]

The auto-blocking cannot be overridden with Warframe powers. This is really frustrating when I want to use a power to kill or control enemies but I can't because I'm forced to continue blocking. One could argue that this prevents the player from taking damage and dying. However, attacking already overrides blocking and can lead to that same result.

Basically, let me cast powers and interrupt my blocking if I so choose.

 

[SolarDwagon]

Heavy attacks are effectively useless. They consume combo counter that powers mods such as Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds, and the time it takes to actually use them is time you could be building those combos higher and hitting repeatedly, applying multiple status effects and doing nearly as much damage through volume of strikes.

Combos for the most part have been improved, but they need more differentiation. Too many weapons have at least one pair of standard/RMB-hold that are functionally the same (Ninkondi neutral combos are a good example), and other weapons the neutral and movement combos are too similar in movement tempo (sword and shield neutral combos are a particularly noticeable offender here).

 

 

[sorcer3r]

Heavy attacks consuming combo counter is also not so good for Ash's 4 :)

[Sliv]

I will talk about what I would like to change, but I like melee 2.T for the most part (better stance combos, back to old slam attacks, heavy attacks, ...).

Heavy attacks

Yes, I may be a bit of a special case here, but I like them, for they provide a third build choice for weapons such as my beloved Jat Kittag (15%/2x crits; 25% status, mostly impact).
I have seen a lot of complaints, though, about them being slow and burning the combo, which is used by Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds.

So here is a solution that could make everyone happy :

• give a 90%ish base combo efficiency to every weapon (eventually having a different one for different weapons/types of weapon).
• have the heavy attack damage mods (such as Killing Blow) reduce said efficiency, while dealing significantly higher damages.
• have bonus heavy attack speed on at least one status mod (something like a nightmare mod giving 60% status chance, 60% heavy attack speed), since crits have Amalgam Organ Shatter.

That way, crit and status builds could use heavy attacks for some slight benefits at almost no cost, while heavy attack builds would use the combo as a ressource to deal most of their damage. You could also add some hybrid mods later, like bonus crit/status damage on heavy attacks (like Empowered Blades).

There is still one thing that annoy me with heavies, which is the alternate fire from guns takes over the heavy attack button, making it impossible to heavy slam attack after an aim glide, for example. Being able to heavy attack directly if the gun doesn't have an alternate fire would be awesome !

Glaives

Lots of stuff here, but some may be bugs :

• Power Throw doesn't trigger explosions anymore. The Quick Return + Power Throw build was pretty fun to use. Maybe add a mod to bring back explosions on impact ? I know that you can trigger it by pressing melee, but it doesn't work once the glaive starts coming back.
• The orvius special function is very impractical to use, now. While it was working on "blue attacks" when dual wielding, before, you now need to be in melee only mode, to block, and then heavy attack. It also doesn't work while on Ivara's zipline.
• The self damage is still present.

The "auto aim" function of the glaives is also kinda broken, now :

• They seem to go for the closest enemy (instead of the closest to the cursor).
• They target corpses (which is a bit problematic when playing with Quick Return).

Other

Auto parry is still anoying because it makes us aim glide. It doesn't seem to prevent firing anymore, though, which is nice.

The dash forward from "Hover Air Combo (Back + Melee while Jumping)" kinda screw me when trying to aim below some obstacle with exodia contagion.

The juggling is kinda annoying since it tends to make enemies float outside of our range. Kingdom Hearts had a similar feature where those strikes would launch enemies above. Maybe it would be a cool replacement, coupled with the "hover air combo" ?

Aaaand that is all. I think. Maybe. For the moment, at least.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Sliv
english is hard