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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Melee Phase 2: TECHNIQUES Feedback

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After about two weeks of testing, i can't really say i've found anything BAD (except for particular details like gunblades, which i'll touch when i end the general part). Yes, some stances worked diferently, and at first value were nerfed/clunky/diferent, but nothing that a little experimentation (or, heavens forbid, looking into the "melee combo" section and seeing what the stance does and doesn't (gasp!)) wouldn't clarify. So i had to switch some stances, do some testing, overall, everything's actually great. Melee actually feels "fun" now, not "omg i have to endlessly spam E" (or worst even, "spin-to-win"). Interchangeable combos actually give it a nice look and refreshing feeling, you can actually change how  you fight with out even going out of the mission to change stances if you're bored of looking at your character hit exactly the same way over and over again.

Heavy attacks now: there's space for improvement. They hit A TRUCKLOAD MORE. Even more with built combo counter, but when enemies start getting TOO HARD, it becomes a bit boring, cause heavy attacks are the only thing killing things fast (machete wraith  takes about 3 heavy attack hits to kill a lvl 130ish corrupted heavy gunner (with a build tunned to heavy attacks)(look for that one in youtube)) Problem is most stances have that single heavy attack, again and again and again (basically going back to boring melee 2.0) So if we could get heavy attack combo animations, that would improve things a lot  i feel.

The "bad" part i can definetly see is gunblades. I mean... having more of the combos actually be melee on a melee weapon makes sense, but at least one of the stance's combos should let you shoot normally, like, being able to propperly aim at stuff

The unified combo thingy is the single best part of the update i feel (maybe, JUST MAYBE add a bit more range on some gapclosers), but i fail to see where are people getting trapped in combo animations. Like seriously, even  in boring melee 2.0 there was A SINGLE combo  of a sparring stance that trapped you (i forgot its name because i didn't use it precisely because it trapped you, it was the one withe the capoeira kicks thrown in)  As of now it's been impossible for me to get trapped in an animation cycle, and i've tried to. So to anyone suffering by that, answer me with what weapon and what stance and let me check it (probabbly again)

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Hey! I might be in the minority here, but i really loved Decisive Judgement nikana stance above the other two, mostly because of the hold combo, which performed a dash and upward slash. The hitbox wasn't very good, but it felt great to use it.

Can you please add it back somehow? As a heavy attack, or maybe in place of the block forward combo?

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After the last hotfix, I find myself doing heavy attacks when I don't mean to while using high attack speed weapons.

Would it be possible to toggle off the ability to do heavy attacks by holding E? It really messes up my ability to maintain my combo counter.

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The changes to gunblades STILL feel awkward as hell. While forward moving quick shot is now responsive, a quickshot while standing still or moving in any other direction is now janky and locks you in place (this may be bullet dance only?), and now the heavy attacks are even clunkier than before. W h y

Edited by OvisCaedo

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Thanks for sort of restoring heavy attacks on Held button, and not the abominable set-up that is Mouse3. For future reference, NEVER bind any control in any game to Mouse3; unless you are the kinda weirdo who finds it intuitive to write while gripping a pencil using only your middle finger; which is roughly as smooth and natural-feeling to me.

I say sort of; because unfortunately, you added hold-for-heavy-attack back into melee controls in a somewhat glitchy fashion, much like the "restoration" of player-controlled block; and as a result, some Stances (or rather, the Human Centipede you left behind in place of familiar and beloved Stances) ignores the held E anyway. As a result, a random attack at nothing in particular occurs, followed by a second-and-a-half-long lag to the actual heavy attack.

Secondly, if you had to remove channeling, did you also have to jam its VFX on to every heavy attack? That weird energy-color pulse when we do parkour has already existed for several years without any way to toggle it off (which we desperately need, it detracts from the visuals rather than adding to them); and this jammed-in glow is just as annoying. This was fun only when channeling still existed, and we controlled whether or not it was visually "activated". It being changed to a permanent, unalterable effect on every single heavy attack is very annoying. Beyond annoying, loathsome. I don't want to see it. Either restore channeling and combo counter as part of the melee combat system's mechanics, or take this visual effect out altogether. Yet more eye fatigue that throws off fashion-frame offered to the players in place of variety and intuition of controls. Lovely.

QlGfkzR.jpggM8OOy8.jpgAnd look! It's our old friends from all of the "visually improved and overhauled" swing trails and elemental VFX; Needless Bloom and his best friend Obnoxious Particles! Of course, I prefer to call them Sparky and Bubbles, and neither is a term of endearment. I've been trying to evict Sparky and Bubbles for months, but a large group of very involved people seems to be under the mistaken impression they are "CiNeMaTiC" to have under the same roof. If these two young chaps are cinematic, they are cinematic in the fashion of Michael Bay's entire filmography: by being insufferably over-done, flashing, and over-complicated. Less truly is more when it comes to space ninjas.

Of course, this is far from my only greivance; and rest assured that only my absolute exhaustion has turned a frustrated anger into what my formal tone might cause to come across to you as apathy. I am well and truly enraged, but there's only so many ways to rephrase that you never wanted something that was haphazardly jammed into your favorite video game and your favorite form of combat within said game; particularly when it was jammed in without any of your feedback or personal choice, and your feedback continues to be ignored as it gets clunkier to control, less fun to use, and more painful to look at.

So, let me be blunt and emphatic on my feelings and frustrations:

The only flaw with the old Combo system was that some weapon categories had a singular stance, and that some Stances had only two combos. You, as the developers, should have, and could have, taken the time to expand the small ones into a full set a la Tempo Royale; and then in turn made new Stances and new weapons for the sadly unloved melee weapon categories (COUGH WARFANS, RAPIERS, BLADE-WHIPS, ETC. COUGH).

But you didn't do that. You did nothing for the weapon categories and Stances that needed love; and instead you annihlated the Stances and Combos that were beloved and familiar, ones we had used and grown fond of for five (or more!) years; leaving behind only lesser and clunkier inferior replacements for them that merely bear the stolen name. 

August Mesto was once, and should still be, a horizontal corkscrew-flip combined with a downward vertical chop; and what you now claim to be "August Mesto" is what used to be Majestic Abandon, and the "E E E E" combo of that Stance. You literally rearranged them; and on top of that you also simplified what was a formerly majestic pair of combos with good range and multi-hit into a clumsy, short-range couplet with half the range. That flip isn't just bastardized into no longer being a part of the block combo (WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE STAYED); it also is now more of a pathetic hop with a limper arm swing.

And what's even worse, in some cases you didn't even bother to do that, you just cut-and-pasted specific chunks of the old Combos across Stances that formerly had distinct styles, creating the awkward animations and present homogeny of twirling we now face.

FxS0oqw.jpg

I don't understand either, Major_Lost. I truly don't. If it ain't broke, don't fix it; let alone replace it with an industrial shipment of pin-wheels.

I'm not developer-bashing, either. I do not make this accusation lightly; but I will not ignore the evidence of my own eyes and over five years of use when it tells me that this is quite visibly the sort of Frankentstein's-Monster-esque mutilation that occured with Combos.

And that experience, and my own eyes, tells me that Malicious Raptor once had two very, very lovely Combos I was quite fond of: Wicked Slash and Lethal Clash. They were, respectively, as is still visible on the wiki, a delightfully berserk flurry of enraged claw attacks; and a corkscrew-claw-slash ending in a satisfyingly brutal two-handed slam of both sets of claws into the ground/a downed foe.

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This is the real Wicked Slash, the fun one; and like all of the old Combos, it should still be there in that Stance; rather than the mess you gave its stolen name to. I deeply miss performing it, and in defiance of reason; I have a mounting, frustrated urge to try and recreate the beloved and now-lost manuever on a ballistic gel dummy with a steak knife in each hand. It might make me slightly less sad about what was taken away.

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This is the real and fun Lethal Clash, and like its brother Combo, it no longer exists in any fashion.

Except for the fact they still do - in a simplified, visually-dumbed down form on Vermillion Storm.

That couldn't be right, of course. Vermillion Storm is the elegant ballet performance of Claw Stances, consisting of mocking twirls and several fancy kicks. Why would it contain slamming or mauling, as Malicious Raptor had stolen from its own animations? But, lo and behold, despite the fact I tested claw weapons using Vermillion Storm after The Old Blood launched, what Combos did I see in Captura in place of its lethal dances?

WokqW5z.jpg

Hmmh, doesn't that series of hunched and diagonal cuts look familiar, and yet somewhat... ...nuetered? It occured immediately, with the previous spiral of claw attacks gone; and as I believe I just mentioned, it WAS CUT AND PASTED onto a completely unfitting Stance.

But maybe I'm over-reacting, this could have just been - 

BGjmku2.jpg

A backflip without any cuts followed by a claw slam into the ground? Downgraded, yet all too familiar in its source. No such manuevre existed on Vermillion Storm before, and if this isn't a downgraded Lethal Clash, then Melee 3.0 is everything I (never, ever, EVER) asked for and not-at-all a perpetually mounting frustration that has sucked most of the joy of the game out for me. Zing, except not really; I hope you actually read that.

Since these "new combos" are not only ripped directly out of Malicious Raptor to be grafted onto its horrified sibling as it simultaneously bleeds out in the gutter; but they are also downgraded, they deserve downgraded names. I will call these misplaced imposters Flailing Scritches and Injury Disagreement

Eloquence fails to express my feelings, so I now use slang:

Lame. Bollocks. Whack. Honky. A gigantic, steaming pile of - er, Shelter-Debt Bonds. Bloody Corpus. 

QGhXmmQ.png

Bold claims. Claims which are dubious at best, if not outright false advertising. 

I want the old Combos back. 

I want to perform those Combos with a mixture of taps, held-E-key, RMB, and pauses again; it felt like the natural tensing and relaxation of muscles for a martial art, whereas this "overhauled" combo system is pure mashing with a bit of foreward key and RMB. Identical, and soulless.

I want melee lock-in to not cause that stupid flash you "restored" it with.

I want MANUAL manual block, not "manual block but teehee just kidding that stupid auto-AI still interrupts your actions to block" block.

I want a reason to use my Valkyr Prime again, and so far this year has only steadily decreased what was my true love among Warframes into someone designed to buff a system that has been perepetually worsened.

I. AM. NOT. HAVING. FUN. 

NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

Edited by Maxim_M_Payne
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In today's hotfix 26.0.7 this change as made (Removed Combo Hit Multiplier with Glaive's hit damage. Only explosive damage will use the Combo Multiplier.). This is a step backwards as this previously lackluster weapon type felt new and refreshing as throwing your thrown weapon actually felt rewarding once you raised your combo multiplier. without this functionality the weapon might as well just be another regular weapon because the throwing function has once again become useless as it does literally no damage. I went from being able to kill a 125 corrupted heavy gunner with 2-3 throws at a 12x multiplier to it taking over 10 throws sometimes close to 15 at the same multiplier. Now i understand that only heavy attacks were intended to benefit from the combo multiplier but maybe some exception or middle ground can be made/met like a buff to the throwing portion of the weapons damage because this was a big disappointment to log into as i was actively using my glaive prime and wolf sledge and now while the melee damage is still good ive lost all incentive to use either of these weapons over others as I was taking advantage of the thrown aspect.

Edited by SirLethal
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1 hour ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

I. AM. NOT. HAVING. FUN. 

I agree with you in several areas,. I don't understand why the combos were shifted around to the point that the names don't actually match the motions. I miss a ton of the old animations (i.e. Heart of the Naga is missing its cool flipping attack that hit everything in front of it in a while arc) and I've effectively dumped staves because of how awkward Clashing Forest is to use now when I was just expecting new animations and attacks.

But I honestly like the current keybindings compared to the old ones. The old pause/esoteric movement input method left much to be desired when Attack Speed gets jacked up. The greater flexibility allows me to chain the combos to cover more ground. For instance, Comboing the Guard-Forward Combo into the standard Forward Combo for Final Harbinger skips the weird ending lag of the second Guard-Forward Combo hit while allowing him to keep slashing. I can choose whether I want to knock enemies into the air with my Tempo Royale combos now and 

It's obviously not perfect and there are still many things I want to complain about (i.e. wasted an Orokin Catalyst on a scythe to try it out, only to find that the combos and damage are still clunky and awkward to use no matter what I tried to make them work), but I don't particularly mess the old system as a whole and wish it would just get tweaked and fixed.

For instance, adding a toggle function on using held melee button to use Heavy Attacks. That way I can abuse Exodia Hunt on my Zaw to make use of Rending Crane (which is now much more comfortable to use) with my neutral combo before ripping them apart with my Forward Combo.

Floating still doesn't click with me. It's useful CC, but I feel like I'm hitting a pinata when the enemies are floating away from my sword/whip/rapier and off a ledge.

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I prefer Heavy attack holding and release to holding the normal melee attack then release heavy attack.

it's might something wrong 🤔

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Relevant to crit mod changes, I never thought I would ever say this but.... buff Maiming Strike. It needs it. The generic crit mod applies on every attack, is much better for charge attacks, and barely worse on slide attacks. And sacrifical steel blows it out of the water completely.

 

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As somebody who only uses quick melee (because guns are useful and switching weapons being slow is the reason you introduced instant switching, remember?), this update is... mediocre, to say the least.

1. Putting finishers on context, not melee, is incredibly awkward and means that, more often than not, I don't even notice the prompt until the enemy is either dead or more likely:

2. Enemies floating into the air and away from me while I'm trying to kill them is infuriating. Why is this in the game? It serves no purpose other than annoying you. Especially when combined with:

3. The Blood Rush change (I assume) has just made your already-too-tanky enemies even more tanky. So thanks for that.

4. You've completely broken stealth-kill multipliers for anything other than finishers. So what's the point in bows, Hush, Suppress, Silent Battery, etc. any more? (This isn't technically melee, I realise, but it's the finisher change that caused it, so here it is.)

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Polearm combos for everything except for Twirling Spire look to be  simplified to a point of near parity. Bleeding Willow and Shimmering Blight share 3 of 4 combos (assuming 4 possible inputs: Atk, Fwd+Atk, Block+Atk, Fwd+Block+Atk). I get that the combo list says that one has a Fwd+Atk and one just has an Atk, but the reality is that all inputs except for Fwd+Block+Attack are exactly the same, both within a stance and between the two stances. I have a feeling this may be a bug, since we’re actually now missing Bleeding Willows normal Atk combo (see it below, labeled Lethal Gust), but I didn’t want to assume so and provide it as feedback just in case. Please make these two stances feel more unique, or since they only have two combos each, merge them into one. Thanks for reading!

 

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After two weeks of playing around with the new melee changes I believe I somewhat come to a conclusion about how I feel about it. From what I understand this thread is purely for the mechanics/stance changes and not for stat/balancing changes, so I will leave my thoughts on the balancing out of this post.

Overall I can say I am almost happy with the changes. There are some small annoyances here and there but the changes are mostly good.

The good:

I love being able to switch to melee mode by simply pressing the melee button whenever I want. This was already introduced in phase 1 but it feels so nice and fluid that I think it needs to be mentioned here again. 

I really like how accessible the combos are now. Not only are they easier to pull off consistently but the fact that you can more or less expect what each combo is going to do is great. What I mean by that is, for each weapon the forward+block combo is always going to involve some form of forward momentum, which makes everything more accessible even if you are unfamiliar with the stance.

The bad:

You can clearly tell that most stances have simply been chopped into bits and rearranged to fit the new combos. In general this is fine, but some animations look a bit "off" now. It's hard to explain but I think whoever knows what I mean knows what I mean.

Some stances use the same animation for 2 or more combos in their kit. I have noticed this in some polearm, dagger and dual dagger stances. Having these stances do the same thing with three different inputs just feels like these stances were rushed. Even if that makes sense from a utility/balancing standpoint because that one combo ticks all the boxes for neutral forward and block combos, in the end this just feels a bit cheap.

Heavy attacks feel pretty clunky. More often than not I find myself missing my targets. This obviously depens on weapon type as some weapons have more forward momentum on their heavy attacks than others. 

The "lifted" status also feels a bit awkward. While it does look really cool I am sometimes annoyed by how easily enemies can "fly away" (not a Lenny Kravitz reference -.-) when hitting them. Having them stay in place would be better?

In conclusion, I am mostly happy with the mechanical side of things on melee 3.0. Although I seem to have more negatives than positives here, the negatives are just minor/polishing issues. In the end I would say the positves outwheig the negatives and we have a net positive here.

 

Iz nice!

 cohen baron GIF

 

Peace & Love

 

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5 hours ago, Telanyxis said:

As somebody who only uses quick melee (because guns are useful and switching weapons being slow is the reason you introduced instant switching, remember?), this update is... mediocre, to say the least.

1. Putting finishers on context, not melee, is incredibly awkward and means that, more often than not, I don't even notice the prompt until the enemy is either dead or more likely:

2. Enemies floating into the air and away from me while I'm trying to kill them is infuriating. Why is this in the game? It serves no purpose other than annoying you. Especially when combined with:

3. The Blood Rush change (I assume) has just made your already-too-tanky enemies even more tanky. So thanks for that.

4. You've completely broken stealth-kill multipliers for anything other than finishers. So what's the point in bows, Hush, Suppress, Silent Battery, etc. any more? (This isn't technically melee, I realise, but it's the finisher change that caused it, so here it is.)

Honestly bro it just sounds like you dont wanna adapt to the new system a little and ind the good things that come from some of the stuff you complained about for instance moving finishers to context buffs so many frames like excal,mirage,inaros,etc that use blind mechanics...by not forcing you to do a finisher on every single enemy your melee damage skyrockets on any enemy affected without locking you into a long finisher animation and you can just press context at any time to do a finisher when YOU want to not just because you're forced to

and as for the lifted/floating thing if you play around with the combos you'll find that some of them reach out or nudge forward into the enemies also you could simply use the forward moving combo or even the block+forward moving combo to close distance and really create some sick combos that are more interactive engaging and just all around fun plus on the weapons that this alone doesn't feel good on you can just throw in a primed reach or reach mod and it cleans it right up making all your attacks connect...plus lifted counts as a status so combos with lifts in them automatically make your attacks stronger afterwards i you're using condition overload... so in conclusion I suggest just playing around with the system a little more and finding your own groove and making your own fun

Edited by SirLethal

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I originally made this post in the Weapon Stats thread, but it really does apply to both threads. Initially, it was meant to talk about the Steel mods changes, but the issue with those mods ultimately lies with the mechanics behind Heavy Attacks. 

Here's the original post in its entirety:

Crit Chance mods are problematic. The most recent change to the Steel mods was an interesting move, but it leaves us in one bad spot still:

The viability of a weapon is extremely dependent on its crit profile. 

It also further exacerbates a problem with how Heavy Attacks were designed: you either go all-in on Heavy Attacks and spam them exclusively, or you forgo them entirely and go all in on Blood Rush. This stems from the fact that Heavy Attack consumes all your Combo Counter. In theory, this could be addressed with Combo Efficiency on the weapon build, but then you're sacrificing mod space, which means even if you can get an effective "hybrid" build, it would be worse than a build that focuses on just one attack type.

Ultimately, I think the Steel mods change subtly highlight the fundamental flaw with Heavy Attacks: it doesn't play well with another established play style, forcing the player into an either/or situation, never a both.

It also points to a fundamental flaw with mods that increase crit chance: they only work on weapons that already have good crit chances. It's the Reach issue all over again.

Related to the above point: Status Chance has the exact same issue.

The fix? Not sure, but here's a shot: 

  • First, you have to change how the combo counter works. It can't all be spent, all at once. Also, you need to remove any sort of mega buff for not spending it for a long time. So do something like: Your combo counter must be at least 20 to use Heavy Attack, and each use of Heavy Attack spends 20 of your combo counter. You can build your combo counter as high as you like. It no longer lists the effect of the combo counter as a multiplier. Instead, it just lists the number of Heavy Attacks you have saved up. And, this is important: nothing in the game should give you a benefit for getting a bigger number of Heavy Attacks saved up outside of the fact that you could do a certain number of heavy attacks in a row.
  • Heavy Attack gets changed. No longer does it have it's own stat block on the weapon (which, really, could just be summed up as a x5 or x6, depending on the weapon). Instead, it's just a multiplier that gets applied to Crit Chance, Status Chance, and Damage. This multiplier is used last, taking all buffs into account (so mods effectively get multiplied). This multiplier could vary by weapon, and for further complexity and possible player customization, the multiplier could vary by stat within the weapon (ie, Venka Prime could get a x4 Crit Chance, a x3 Damage, and a x2 Status Chance on Heavy Attacks).
  • The above should address the issue that, currently, Heavy Attacks and Light Attacks are an either/or thing, and you never plan to do both in your build. Also, by expanding what a Heavy Attack can affect, you also give design space for weapons that can have affinity for certain build types, both by its starting stats and by how Heavy Attacks influence it.
  • It should be noted that several boosts would need a closer look for balance's sake: Initial Combo (which would be/currently is kind of overpowered--honestly, this stat should just be a very high % of Combo Count Chance, like 200-300%), Combo Efficiency (which, like Initial Combo, could obviate the need for light attacks--maybe a hard ceiling of 50%?), and Combo Duration (which might still be okay, but also might just not be worth it; keep an eye on it).
  • Change all Crit Chance boosting effects to work like Reach boosting effects. Ie, they give an actual boost in percentage points, not a relative boost based off a base value. Bring True Steel down to like 40%. Sacrificial Steel to 60% (75% with set bonus). True Punishment 30%. Ripkas Amalgam 50%. Rivens at 40% + or - disposition. Maiming Strike 50%*.
  • Give all Status Chance boosting effects the same treatment. As there are more of them, their overall numbers should probably be lower. BUT, players need to be able to build for status chance, still--and there needs to be a reward for breaking 100%, just like with Crits (more on that below).
  • Blood Rush and Gladiator set, as well as Weeping Wounds, get changed to big, flat buff with a duration that is applied/refreshed whenever you perform a Heavy Attack. Something like (for Blood Rush) "When you perform a Heavy Attack, gain 100% Crit Chance for 15 seconds." It should be noted that this bonus gets applied to the triggering Heavy Attack, and before Heavy Attack multipliers, making Heavy Attacks the path to those massive Red numbers players love seeing.
  • *Maiming Strike could even have a similar effect: rather than granting a buff to just spin attacks, it could grant a duration buff for performing a spin attack, further encouraging players to make fuller use of the various melee mechanics.
  • I never got to play with old Conditioned Overload, but there is quite a bit of feedback that the current Status builds for melee weapons just aren't strong enough. The way you could potentially address this is to give the players more agency on applying Status effects, and also give them a reason to build to crazy levels of Status Chance.
  • One idea: When attacking with a weapon with over 100% Status Chance, for each full 100%, apply one status effect, prioritizing the effect with the highest weight to be applied. No single status may be applied more than once per attack. The leftover Status Chance (< or = 100%) functions as normal (but the limit on no single status being applied more than once per attack still applies).
  • This would give players both the ability to very rapidly apply multiple statuses (making CO feel like a much better increase over PP and its variants), as well as control over which statuses they apply. It could make Viral + Slash builds very powerful, but that's okay as the issue right now is that status builds aren't able to keep up with Crit builds. It also allows Status builds to play with Heavy Attacks, since they could dramatically increase the amount of Status Chance.

This post has gotten quite a bit longer than I initially intended. Hopefully, it's useful.

Edited by waterboytkd
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After the last updates I can't control the use of Heavy Attack any more. It lies on "Mouse 3" but it triggers totally randomly using Quick Attack (that is "E").

I'm using mostly pole-arms with "twirling spire" modded for speed (1.3+ and Berserk on top) and it happens all the #*!%ing time.

Can we please get an option to disable Heavy Attacks? I don't like to use them in the first place. Being locked in the  heavy attack animation is a chore and thanks to it triggering seemingly randomly, 90% of the time there's not even a foe left standing, so it whiffs totally useless in the air. 😞

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Heavy Attacks need more functions to better integrate to rest of melee. More fluid animations that lock in with normal combos, Heavy Slide attacks, and the sort. Combo Counter could use some more work as well, since right now we're heading to a situation where melee has three monomania states, while ideally while we'd have even just two DPS alternatives (crit and status, for example) what we need with them outside of the numbers is a way for the system to incentivize using every aspect of melee. Right now using Blind Justice a lot, I do feel that I mix up my melee a good deal (altering between two combos and using slide attacks to dart around), but I feel little incentive to use Heavy Attacks outside of Life Strike (if I don't just use Daikyu Amalgam). The loss of the combo counter when running Blood Rush is just too hard a hit even if it's only for a matter of seconds, but more than that the Heavy Attacks simply feel bad to use compared to the more fluid combos+slide buzzsaw.

Conversely, Heavy Attack builds I've tried use ONLY Heavy Attacks, since they lack incentive to use anything else. Additional synergy between normal attacks and heavy attacks both in the underlying technique and the stats of the mods are needed.

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giving the ability to hold e for heavy was a step in the right direction for glaives. they are still very weird to use compared to how the were before this old blood update. this update is great for people who are melee nuts but for people who used gunblades and glaives as tools to help with damage every now and then, it sucks.

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Ok, after trying as many weapons as possible, I'm finally ready to drop my feedback on the melee overhaul.

I love it so far. 90%+ of the weapons are viable now AND fun to use. However, there are some stuff that I'd like to see improved for it to be perfected, so I'll list it here.

  • Heavy Attack is... Pointless. Very. My suggestion is to make it consume 20 combo points instead of ALL OF IT, so we can use it without feeling that hard-worked combo counter wasn't removed. Yes, hitting 2 million red crits with Fragor's heavy attacks at 12% combo is pleasant to see, but not really handy. Not to mention high combo levels usually end up with overkills by a huge margin. It's just... Bad right now.
  • Blood Rush is too strong. Too damn strong. To the point where every weapon running it is performing surprisingly well. It feels mandatory for every weapon, including low critical ones. Meh.
  • Some old stances need polishing. Some have only 3 combos and the animations are pretty similar between 2 different combos.

And that's all. I'd be pretty happy if at least the first topic was touched, since it's the biggest oddball right now. I've seen a lot of people complaining about it above too.

Thanks a lot for the work, DE. As always, we love you. ❤️

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most of the weapon good (some of them great ) most of stance good to new combo system awesome BUT!
Every good thing u did ruined by 1 worst idea returning heavy attack by holding E 

i rly don't get why people complaint to it because with new system u can easily rich 500+ lvl and u weapon keep useful

back to point after latest patch u've returned back and now game register mashing E as holding most of the time

YE i get if monster lvl low u still 1 shot and if u didn't u easily get u combo back BUT is time and most important is annoying 

u've rework  melee weapon system to make it more consistent but now i can control how game register my pressing

i've see only 1 way to solve that problem u have to add some option to heave attack switching between holding and other bottom (rly like 3rd mose bottom) 

hope You get the point

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Can we please have the option to just toggle back to the old combos? Or at least let us change what combo is bound to certain inputs. 

Tempo Royale and Noble Cadence feel like a hot mess.

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We need to have the option of NOT reforming a heavy attack on holding my melee button. At the moment it is impossible to turn of this mechanic. It removes the combo count and seriously damages builds that realy on it. Of course i am not saying to remove it outright. Some people might enjoy it, it was readded in the latest hotfix because of community feedback. 

All i want is simple the option to deactivate this mechanic under option. Please DE don`t destroy this beautifull new meleesystem by some stupid feature! 

 

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The current hotfix moved heavy attacks from "I will probably never use them, but it's nice to have the option"  to "I would like an option to completely opt out of heavy attacks, as soon as possible".

Currently, because of the sketchy/unwanted activation of heavy attacks,  my combo-counter seldomly goes over 4, the mods depended on it feel like wasted capacity and I feel punished for pushing attack an arbitrary length of time to long (plus being locked in the heavy attack animation still feels clumsy/clunky).

Ideas to make it better without removing it alltogether:

-give us a visible option to "charge/invest" Combo Counter into Heavy Attacks. Say a "Heavy-O-Meter" that rises from "1 to Combo Counter" the longer you hold attack (or until it's full and you hit attack again). This would allow us to decide how much Combo Counter we spend on an attack and it would become an actual resource we could spend purposeful, instead of "all or nothing", and those who accidentally activated it, wouldn't waste it all in once (my unwanted heavy attacks usually start when all enemies currently slump dead to the ground).

-give us a visible option to cancel Heavy attacks.

Sorry, that's all I got for now.

Edited by thor_sten
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  • please figure out a different implementation of hold [melee key] for heavy attacks or heavy attacks using up combo counter. too easy to accidently heavy attack with this last hotfix and lose the entire combo counter.
  • lift mechanic is generally more of an annoyance than help. melee players would generally prefer grouping up enemies that would survive more than one hit instead of spreading them out, and the lift mechanics (which are almost unavoidable with certain stances like clashing forest) usually make melee targets float away (which is especially annoying with attacks that have some push/knockback, like with, guess what, the clashing forest stance). i would prefer a stagger or knockdown (that could lead to finisher attacks for certain weapons like fists, daggers and rapiers, for example, to give them a one-on-one advantage over larger weapons, so that, you know, variety) if you want an element of cc in melee, instead of what is happening now i.e. me having to chase a lv 160 bombard i've lifted (not by choice, but because the stance mandates it) around while trying to hit it with every attack pushing it further and further from melee range. just stand back and think: which good lethal close-range martial art actually makes it harder and harder for you to hit your opponent or puts you at more of a disadvantage when you attack? tenno arts the way they're implemented currently, apparently.
  • please bring back some way to make melee kills vanish and not alert enemies. haven't had a satisfying stealth run since this rework.
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With the update The Old Blood: Hotfix 26.0.7 you added hold to heavy attack. I am constantly accidentally triggering this now and loosing all my combo stacks with bloodrush weapons. Please either extend the required hold time a couple of milliseconds or give me an option to opt out of this. I was so happy when this was first removed but now it's back and it negatively affects my gameplay this time around.

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