(PC) Melee Phase 2: TECHNIQUES Feedback

[Violet_Xe]

Reflection and Mortal Conduct are both still channeling mods.

[HawkeyeGreen]

I am sorry if this was mentioned before but to me the most crucial thing to fix is that Inaros isn't playable anymore.

I just loved using the 1 to finish enemies and regain health. That way I could run with my gf even extremly high level missions.

Now even lvl 80 to 100 enemies basically force you to back down into your 2 in order to survive which makes you nothing more than a glorified statue standing around soaking up enemies.

It feels like he's been stipped off a core element like removing stacks from Nidus etc.

I am aware that this is probably a single person problem but I wanted to mention it ._.

[Andele3025]

On 2019-11-15 at 3:41 AM, Maxim_M_Payne said:

But you didn't do that. You did nothing for the weapon categories and Stances that needed love; and instead you annihlated the Stances and Combos that were beloved and familiar, ones we had used and grown fond of for five (or more!) years; leaving behind only lesser and clunkier inferior replacements for them that merely bear the stolen name. 

August Mesto was once, and should still be, a horizontal corkscrew-flip combined with a downward vertical chop; and what you now claim to be "August Mesto" is what used to be Majestic Abandon, and the "E E E E" combo of that Stance. You literally rearranged them; and on top of that you also simplified what was a formerly majestic pair of combos with good range and multi-hit into a clumsy, short-range couplet with half the range. That flip isn't just bastardized into no longer being a part of the block combo (WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE STAYED); it also is now more of a pathetic hop with a limper arm swing.

And what's even worse, in some cases you didn't even bother to do that, you just cut-and-pasted specific chunks of the old Combos across Stances that formerly had distinct styles, creating the awkward animations and present homogeny of twirling we now face.

 

Worse. TR is now riddled with hard animation locks and the only bad attack animation TR had that arguably should have been removed )Resplendent Calmas spin slide) FOR SOME REASON also got nerfed in both speed and hitbox.

TR should be:

• Static combo/Majestic Abandon keeping his 3 diagonal attacks that do small forward steps (but animation lock removed to let you strafe if you are holding the input instead) with maybe August Mestos kick flip.
• Forward combo/Resplendent Calma being signature doublespin with the Resplendent Calma 4th attack/horizontal swipe ALL WITH FREE MOVEMENT (yes, just 2 attacks, both with free movement)
• Forward Block combo/August Mesto should just again be August Mesto OR in worst case, the 3 vertical flips of it into the current slam BUT WITH OLD SPEED AND BOTH SOFT KEYBOARD AND HARD CAMERA STEER CONTROL, AS IT WAS.
• Static Block/Bold Reprise remaining as it is because its the only move that wasnt gutted, but instead "improved"/sidgeraded really/just gets right to the point of the slam attack. THIS IS THE ONLY ATTACK ON WHICH A HARD ANIMATION LOCK IS REASONABLE BECAUSE ITS A STATIC SLAM.

[Quarterdane]

A couple of issues with the current melee controls:

1. Holding melee to heavy attack
   • can result in accidental heavy attacks
   • cannot be disabled (to my knowledge)
2. LMB (Fire Weapon) in Melee-Only mode
   • does nothing unless you enable "Melee with Fire Weapon Input"
   • doing the above means you can't shoot immediately from Quick-Melee mode

Suggestions:

1. Make option toggleable, or only have it apply when Heavy Attack is not bound.
2. Since LMB (Fire Weapon) has no use in Melee-Only mode, let it act as Melee. Alternatively, let us bind the Melee button for Melee-Only mode separately (without having it conflict with weapon-firing keys).

[AreeSoothsayer]

1 hour ago, Quarterdane said:

A couple of issues with the current melee controls:

1. Holding melee to heavy attack
   • can result in accidental heavy attacks
   • cannot be disabled (to my knowledge)
2. LMB (Fire Weapon) in Melee-Only mode
   • does nothing unless you enable "Melee with Fire Weapon Input"
   • doing the above means you can't shoot immediately from Quick-Melee mode

Suggestions:

1. Make option toggleable, or only have it apply when Heavy Attack is not bound.
2. Since LMB (Fire Weapon) has no use in Melee-Only mode, let it act as Melee. Alternatively, let us bind the Melee button for Melee-Only mode separately (without having it conflict with weapon-firing keys).

The accidental Heavy Melee is triggered by Ping. It constantly changing and if you press when the ping spikes high it makes the tap you did seem like a long press. I found this out by joining other games and hosting. Depending on how large the ping changes while playing will affect how often your combo counter is stripped from you. When hosting a game is the only time I made it through an entire map without losing my combo count. I even hosted an Excavation solo and didn't spawn any drills while meleeing everything and at the end I still had my 220 count.

Edit: Nevermind about it not affecting you when hosting. Just lost my combo count twice in one game I hosted. Elimination.

Edited November 16, 2019 by AreeSoothsayer

[AreeSoothsayer]

Vulpine Mask

Assailant Guise and Duel Secrets are backwards. AG is constantly moving foreward on it's own and DS seems like it would be a stand steady stance were I not pressing foreward all the time.

[CashMoneySloot]

To back up what Quarterdane said,

Hold to heavy attack is borked. With weapons of high attack I find if I press my light attack button its a toss up if I light attack or heavy. I know you have it set up like this for that one madurai ability, but as one of the 3 people who use it: I would rather be able to use the new melee system than be able to throw pretty weak fireballs.

[UnluckyX13]

So I really liked the way the Bullet Dance stance for the Redeemer was before a recent hotfix. It rearranged some things such as moving that backrolling combo to the stationary RMB  combo, where new Redeemer boomerang attack was, which I loved using, it was very effective, but now it is at the way end of the stationary combo. For the forward combo, I believe it was 3 slashes and then a double shot, now it is a shot, 2 slashes and another shot. I dunno if commenting here will help or get anything looked at, but I was very disappointed when the combos I had readjusted to and enjoyed were changed so soon.

[DoomFruit]

On 2019-11-13 at 3:11 PM, ShadowRaven0719 said:

The only thing irking me right now with the Stance changes is TempoRoyal. The forward combo and neutral combo should be switched as the current forward combo locks you in place and the neutral seems to be more suited for moving while being used

Why swap them? Isn't the better option to just get rid of every movement override from every combo?

[Kainosh]

Here som feedback on melee.

1) Aerial melee.

Ability to attack multiple times is good when you can actually Stick to target and stay near it to land these attacks. IMO, Aerial melee should function similar to Archwing melee, using "Aimglide" energy to stay on target.  Without those features its pretty pointless....especially with slower weapons.  Momentum is very strong during jumps and usually carries you away from targets.

2) Lifting.

Its not fun. I cant even call it a new "mechanic"... Just a mini "lantern"(Titania's ability).    I want more control over where and how i send them flying.

Like this :  Charged attacks can be aimed up, down and forward (Need special "angle reticle").  Aiming it up will throw enemy upwards and then "lift", Forward will lift them in front of the player and Down will knock em down with no lifting.

Because i want to combine Lifting with Aerial melee and Slams.   Otherwise there is no cool synergy in all those maneuvers.

3) Wall attacks.

Just remove them, and let me swing melee weapon while Latched.   Keeping those useless wall attacks that barely can hit sht....naaah. No go.

Or You can turn these into a "blade jump" (Bullet jump with melee hitbox for entire length). Might be fun jumping from wall to wall, slashing enemies in the process....can be combined with some mods and arcanes too...

4) Slam.

Slam should hit all enemies on its path, carrying them along.  Also, i would put both slams on Heavy attack button (tap / held). 

Because Slam sometimes interfere with Aerial melee.

5) DSS stances still cant be swapped in the mission.  

Sad.

6) Gunblades.

I dont like shots during melee combos.  Shooting combos and Slashing combos must be separate.   It is very awkward when slashing is mixed with shots. Just...not great.

7) Still no HUD indicator that shows combo reset timer (pause between hits). 

Edit:  it should be at the reticle...it doesnt last long enough to put it anywhere else.

 

Rest of it seems ok. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Kainosh

[Arkandae]

il y a 34 minutes, Kainosh a dit :

7) Still no HUD indicator that shows combo reset timer (pause between hits).

I think it's this bar :

[sehafoc]

 

[EinheriarJudith]

for the love of god DE, can you finally make a finisher combo? this cutscene crap is obscene, and we are back at press X to use finisher or in the case of corpus and infested, go behind them and then press X to use finisher.

Finishers should be fluid in their motion as not to disrupt killing speed.

[Jamescell]

The forward move attack sequences should always have more forward mobility than the stationary attack sequences. All stationary attack sequences should have almost no forward movement. At the moment this isn't always the case, many stances have more mobility in their stationary attack sequences.

There should either be a different attack sequence for sprinting while attacking (or just holding shift regardless of if the player is sprinting) and moving forward while attacking, or heavy attacks should be moved back to holding down the melee attack button, freeing up a button for an attack sequence of just gap-closers.

The current blocking-gap-closer is not sufficient for closing distance between the player and enemies in an efficient and not vulnerable way. The ground slam heavy attack would be performed when this gap-closer button is used while in the air.

If DE ends up adding a sprinting attack sequence, it should should have high forward mobility attacks, and perhaps either the sprinting attack sequence or the forward movement attack sequence could have auto targeting. 

Bug: Some weapons like the Kronen Prime with Gemini Cross and Valkyr Prime's Talons perform a charged attack upon holding down the melee attack button. The normal heavy attack button still works as well. 

 

[sehafoc]

 

[supernils]

9 hours ago, Jamescell said:

The forward move attack sequences should always have more forward mobility than the stationary attack sequences. All stationary attack sequences should have almost no forward movement. At the moment this isn't always the case, many stances have more mobility in their stationary attack sequences.

 

This is the most important bit about combat fluidity at the moment. Heavy attacks are a different beast, but you can live without them (like before..).

I have the feeling they test the combos with auto aim enabled only because otherwise you'll often move past enemies unintentionally.

They have to be more consequent in designing the combos. You must be able to rely on them doing what you'd expect.

[ArcKnight9202]

The (Prisma) Obex has an augment that's hard to use now. A while back, it was easy to knock down enemies with a ground slam and then pound them for the explosion. Now, however, ground slams just stagger enemies. Getting an enemy on the ground to pound them for the augment effects is sort of difficult.

Something to improve or change up how this mod works would be welcome. Having to carry a Blast Gun just to use this mod's ability seems silly.

 

[Nullivoid]

Please allow movement during gunblade (e.g Redeemer) heavy attacks. That movement was pretty useful to avoid incoming attacks while shooting.

[ArcKnight9202]

I also just noticed that there is a heavy slide attack. There are no stats listed for such a thing, effects vary from weapon to weapon, and it still eats your combo. I'm not sure what to make of this. Is this intended?

 

[OliverSniper]

Hi!

May we get the option to use Hold E for heavy attack or not? Way to often I end up preforming a heavy attack when I don't  what to using up all my combo and it's  frustrating to me , using secondary fire button felt great and didn't interfered with my stile of play.

Thank you!

Edit: Like how we have the toggle :"melee with fire button"

Edited November 18, 2019 by OliverSniper
added sugestion

[vaarnaaarne]

On the topic of gap closer RMB+forwards, I'd add that almost all that I've tried feel simply awkward to use in some fashion. A good example I feel is Blind Justice, where the pose-slide feels really off when using, it's got a very stiff and uncontrollable forward move but it also feels like it lacks impact so I often feel like it hasn't hit anyone even if that's not the case. It simply doesn't feel like it's doing its job, I've mostly used slide attacks to zip around when I need to close gaps. Most RMB+forwards have this issue, they're too restricted in their movements while their inherent movement is uncontrollable.

 

I'll echo what Andele said about the ideal RMB+forward for Tempo Royale as an example I feel it should go, which would be like the somersault attacks of pre-Chimera August Mesto. There's a good dichotomy if forward is simply sprint speed (or whatever you're moving at), while RMB+forward would add more speed on top of that (again, like August Mesto used to before Chimera). This would create for a very intuitive mix up between forward, RMB+forward, and slide attack for mobility. Or even like Blind Justice does it, which has three different and functional stationary combos besides an awkward "gap closer" (albeit I do have to say that the neutral RMB sometimes baseball batting Noxes far away is while amusing counter-productive).

 

Something similar to the August Mesto situation could be done with Blind Justice, by using the old Heeding Call spinning slash-smash solely as the RMB+forward. The Guiding Light pose-slide doesn't really have a good place anywhere, but the roundhouse kick from Heeding Call used in the RMB+forward could be moved to the end of RMB+neutral (also because it's sweet when stances have kicks or punches mixed in, they should never reduce their number of kicks and punches in the combos).

 

Another thing I feel should be worked on is that stances and their combos need better ingame documentation. Damage modifiers, forced procs, and other effects like knockdowns and lifts should be detailed in the Melee Combos screen.

[-VV-Crunchy]

Can we have the option to not have holding "E" performing a heavy attack? It's really annoying to use the stacks when you just wanna melee and accidentally perform a heavy attack.

Edited November 18, 2019 by -VV-Crunchy

[Shadedabyss]

I am very disappointed with all the changes. I have had over 700 hours and made use of the same stance (swirling tiger) for most of my gameplay. now all that time I spent on making my personal favorite stance and weapon setup is gone in a single update. I didn't really find much broken with it  to begin with and although melee changes up till now have been for the better I am not fond of this one.

[Kainosh]

22 hours ago, Arkandae said:

I think it's this bar :

Then it is done wrong.   It should be located at the reticle.  Coz its a "shoot enemy in the face between your melee strikes" timer.  There is no time to look in the corners during such activities. Like....at all. It lasts about 0.3 seconds.

[Azamagon]

7 hours ago, ArcKnight9202 said:

I also just noticed that there is a heavy slide attack. There are no stats listed for such a thing, effects vary from weapon to weapon, and it still eats your combo. I'm not sure what to make of this. Is this intended?

 

The heavy slide attack is just a heavy attack - but it's using the 2nd attack sequence. For example, if you spam Sparring Heavy attacks, the first sequence is an Axe Kick, the second sequence is a Triple Punch. Sliding heavy attacks simply let you use the 2nd sequence immediately. On most weapons, this doesn't really mean much though.