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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Melee Phase 2: TECHNIQUES Feedback

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  • please fix the removal of free movement during combos of rapiers/ vulpine mask, they're not much used, its one of the unique features of rapiers.
     
  • please fix the increased combo multipier of venka prime.
     
  • please revert the old zenistar disc time not bound to combo counter, or increase its base time. 

    thanks DE
Edited by seventhwalker
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I've made a discussion about the changes to dual wielding, didn't get much attention so i figured i should post it here, sorry in advance if anything came out as impolite

Keep up the good work!

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Heavy attack should be chainable into normal combo, possibly with no windup if they were timed correctly (eg. at the end of a combo). The current implementation of heavy attack encourage either normal combo spam or heavy attack spam, due to long windup timing that makes transition between combo and heavy attack clunky and inconvenient.

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"elevated" status should be completely removed from the combos and only left on the heavy slam, otherwise it's absolutely useless and annoying to use

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While I do not have all stance mods, curse you Cyclone Kraken, I do have quite a few that I decided to try out and these are my initial thoughts.

 

Things I really want changed and have an idea as to what I would like:

Shimmering Blight's Howling Gale combo does not need a required directional input on top of block input.  The forward directional input has removed my ability to use that combo to dance around attacking a single enemy.  The block with attack is sufficient to differentiate it from the base combo, the added forward directional input just ruins it and prevents the ability I had prior to the xbox update today to utilize the combo in a more versatile manner than just a gap closer.  The same goes for Bleeding Willow's Drifting Steel combo, remove the required forward directional input and just leave it at block plus attack to allow users the mobility to move about as they wish while utilizing combos.  Both combos only have two essential attacks, so they could really use the added versatility of a more mobile and fluid combo to attack enemies that is actually interesting and not just the old quick attack spam.  Or another option would be to make it so that any directional input works for the combo input so that you can still maintain mobility and directional function aside from just forward movement.

 

Stances I feel are just awful and don't have any ideas as to how to fix:

-  Wise Razor: feels extremely slow and clunky

-  Iron Phoenix: feels overly simplified to the point that its separate combos are pointless and incomplete

-  Burning Wasp:Similar to Iron Phoenix, just overly simplified to where its largely pointless and incomplete feeling

-  Flailing Branch:Overly simplified, incomplete and pointless

When I'm calling something overly simplified I mean the combos are too short with too few varied attacks.  Its uninteresting, horribly repetitive, and completely lacking in usefulness and versatility.

 

Stances I love the changes to:

All of the dual sword stances feel good in my opinion.  As does Slicing Feathers and Atlantis Vulcan.

 

Edit:  Been playing a bit more, here is some follow up feedback and ideas.

Combos that are limited to two move sets need to be expanded upon if they are the standard attacks.  I would prefer combos that require forward movement input to be any directional input.  Some good changes went in with the tonfa and claw stance mods, really enjoying those.  Thank you so much for bring back stand alone melee with manual blocking!  Flailing branch is better than I initially thought, but not by much, especially compared to Clashing Forest.  I also had some thoughts on the Wise Razor stance mod and changes I would really like to see made to it in the future.

 

-Wise Razor:  I still think its clunky and overall horrible when prior to the update it was one of my favorites.

Combo Threshing Grain: I would remove the three overhead swings and just keep the end spin attack and place that at the end of the combo you have when running without a stance mod.  I realize this would essentially be Cut Thrice with a little extra spin attack, but the overhead swings are repetitive, slow, and not very effective.  That or remove the third overhead swing to get to the spin attack faster.  I'm finding myself either being interrupted by knockdown or needing to move before that part of the combo is reached the majority of the time I use it.

Combo Cut Thrice: The forced break in forward movement kills this combo

Combo Calling Thunder: To little to the combo, not enough forward movement in the lunge to be effective as a gap closer and ends awkwardly.

 

 

Edited by (XB1)Church367A
Follow up feedback after playing more.
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Heavy attacks trigger on accident, consume whole Combo Counter and make Blood Rush builds virtually unusable.

How about making "hold melee" attacks with no cost and no modifier and "secondary fire" attacks with cost of 30-50 Combo Counter.

Or at least let us remove binding for "hold melee" so it doesn't trigger all the time.

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is it too late to finally give wall attacks a different effect?

they should simply perform a ground slam with additional damage and speed when looking downward.

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so this newest melee rework phase just hit my platform (PS4), since there's no dedicated thread for this topic for console i'm just going to ignore the now then outdated "PC" tag to this thread and dump my feedback here (and suggest to the mods to either change the tag or to create a new sticky for feedback on the newest melee rework phase on console). 

 

and boy do we have much negative to talk about unfortunately, first let's start off by pointing out that the appreciated select melee as dedicated current weapon function (by holding the weapon switch button) is back, thank you. with phase 1 i had complained about how getting rid of it unnecessarily made the game more poor in terms of depth and style choice - and here we are and it's back in! but so is the design oversight that switching back to anything else unfortunately pulls always only the so called "primary" firearm instead of the firearm that was wielded last.

 

listen, it disrupts gameflow, it breaks style - and it's entirely unnecessary at that. i for example shoot my extremely versatile pistol build most of the time when shooting a firearm - my so called "primary" weapon is in reality just a heavy specialist weapon that i use the utmost least of the three ("primary"/ "secondary"/ melee), so almost every time i switch back from my melee i have to continue to cycle through weapons and therefore perform an unnecessary and unwanted (gameflow disrupting and derpy looking) double weapon swap instead of a single swapping of one weapon for the other. DE, could you please finally get rid of that and replace it with swapping back to the of the up to two firearms we wielded before switching to melee - after all these years and after all these countless complaints from me on this subject that this forum must have seen by now? with the whole melee rework thing now is the time maybe? it would be just splendid! ;) 

 

but there's of course much, much bigger issues at hand now. namely, umm, i don't know - THE DEATH OF VARIETY AND INSTEAD HIGHLY ACCELERATED UNIFICATION TO THE ALREADY ESTABLISHED META - THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THIS WORK WAS ALLEGEDLY SET OUT TO ACHIEVE??? yes, yes - i know, it sounds all snarky, grumpy and most of all highly overdramatized, doesn't it? oh, i whish - but unfortunately in at least my case this is 100% exactly what happened to me with this update, so please hear me out when i first lengthily explain where exactly i'm coming from in terms of loadout building preferences and how the changes affected these builds (i really can't think of how to shorten this, it means just too much to me) - and you'll see that ridiculouslywise exactly what my yelling in all-caps described is what happened to me: the death of variety and instead highly accelerated unification to the already established meta - the exact opposite of what this work was allegedly set out to achieve. 

 

so i of course also have a few Arcane Vanguard Rhino Prime loadouts wielding Heavy Blades, it's quite fun and i use them often - but that's neither the end of it nor what i RP-wise consider to be my "main" frame. nah, i've got many dedicated farm and team roles filling specialist frames too (like my Nekros Prime loadouts for example), and i consider myself to be an Ash Prime mainer - you know: "the stealthy, shadow-stepping, yet not at all squishy assassin" and all that. so i did find myself using on most of my frames a Covert Lethality (mod that greatly increased base melee damage and allowed for guaranteed kills on forced (standing) finishers, exclusive to Daggers) Dagger with Stinging Thorn stance (Dagger stance that depending on attack angle a bit lot of unreliably, but nevertheless not super-rarely allowed to force standing melee finishers). 

 

it was total niche on farm specialist loadouts and the likes, but i thought like: you know, since i rarely use melee over firearms on these loadouts - at least i wouldn't have to wind-up the combo counter if i sometimes decide to kill something tough rather with melee after an hour in endless missions... .  truth to be told though - any REALLY high DpS melee weapon (so definitely not Daggers unfortunately...) would have been the meta choice there too, and even before the update already as well. but i decided to rather spice things up with a rather niche, yet decently viable still option there. 

 

and it's obvious why i used a Covert Lethality Dagger on my Ash Prime (the only Warframe in the game without a 4 - as his 4 is just a more time and energy consuming, yet still less damage dealing version of one of his other abilities in augmented ...): Fatal Teleport (Ash's Teleport + the Augment Mod for it, which allows to decently reliably force standing melee finishers on hostiles Ash teleports to - a.k.a. "Shadow Step"). it was literally the only thing he had since ever his 4 was "reworked" into just a worse in every way version of Fatal Teleport spam.

 

the rest to Ash is just basics really: less speed and cloak duration than Loki - but more tank and less cloak activation animation clumsiness in turn. a passive that (despite being really good - as little far as passives go) didn't really matter for this playstyle, and a 1 that is quite lethal as far as 1's go - which is very little, so it is nothing more than a little attack one can perform while reloading a weapon. especially so as the chance to make this, his built-in and silent range attack, a greatly in-theme such by enabling it to disable destroyable traps and cameras silently was unfortunately completely missed by making these throwing knifes (that his 1 casts) completely ignore said destroyable traps/ sensors perfectly under crosshair from even very close in if any enemy is still alive like anywhere on the map, because then they instead desperately try to seek out foes by doing everything to fly towards any forever far away enemy behind multiple walls, bouncing off said walls and alerting foes by it - or hitting these foes and alerting them through that. so: yup, his Covert Lethality Fatal Teleport was the only thing Ash really had left. 

 

and while this seemed really powerful - it was not really. why waste time with stealthily assassinating each foe one by one with a Dagger, if you can just equip a tanky Warframe which can cast loads of damage on themselves and strike down 10 over level 200 enemies with one blow with an actually high damage melee weapon? the answer was: style, valid gameplay style diversity, swimming against the meta with one's one little niche thing but still be decently viable overall with it. and what do you know? in some super-high level situations where for example a Corrupted Ancient casts his insane damage reduction aura on a Corrupted Bombard Eximus, or a super-high level Nox Eximus is in the way, etc. - that niche sorta melee attack even reliably, and from the very relative safety of under a cloak with decent base tank on out, proved to be slightly superior in terms of TTK to the meta - for a second, until the special threat was swiftly dealt with. you know, assassin stuff, what a Ninja, the folks who i believe inspired Warframe ages ago, would be especially good for i imagine. 

 

and there's no doubt that Covert Lethality was the only thing Daggers had going for them too, otherwise they're all just trashier versions of other melee weapons unfortunately. heck, i even pushed the build further by equipping 1x R3 Arcane Trickery (grants low chance of cloaking on performing melee standing finishers, a cloaking that doesn't get disrupted by anti-Warframe stuff like Nullifier Bubbles), just to be able to even sneak into Nullifier Bubbles to assassinate them in CQC stealthed - as my on top of everything else 1x R3 Arcane Strike (grants low chance of increasing melee attack speed on dealing damage) was enough to keep me about viable enough melee-wise like this overall. all very niche, gimmicky, non-meta, fun - yet decently viable enough in the hands of a very experienced Warframe player with dedication to the chosen playstyle, well - and ownership of the best gear and the likes available for it. 

 

but today that all changed. 

 

Stinging Thorn can no longer force standing finishers, Covert Lethality no longer increases Dagger damage (making Daggers worse at regular melee combat) - and no longer grants kills on standing finishers (to be fair it already failed to do so on those Nightwave event dudes from the Wolf of Saturn Six and the Infested prophet boy, but those were extreme exceptions that were understandable since they were special event targets that received boss-treatment in this regard then, no biggie), but instead Covert Lethality now provides an amount of extra damage on standing finishers so low that there's barely any difference between the damage produced by a standing finisher with Covert Lethality on or just another +90% elemental damage mod instead (at least on my build with maxed Primed Pressure Point and a Riven that gives extra base melee damage). result for my loadouts: 

 

Daggers are completely dead again, another weapon, style, playstyle, skin category/ subcategory in the trashbin again. my farm specialist and team role based frames now all have to go with meta melee weapons again, increasing their effectiveness to more than what they had beforehand with the Daggers before even the update. my main is completely destroyed - the sneaky Ninja-Assassin has to go with an absurdly huge meta melee weapon fantasy greatsword and the likes now for maximum effectiveness at standing finishers, i even would have to carve out the Platinum to buy in the trade chat 10x Arcane Fury (melee-meta Arcane Enhancement that provides high chance to increase melee damage on critical hit) to replace my niche Arcane Enhancement of Arcane Trickery on him with, as he desperately needs everything he could get in terms of melee effectiveness to have any chance of not falling too over-the-top much behind meta frames who can just slay away continuously at the very-high endgame too (especially since they're also much better at weapon damage dealing in any game stage, and mostly also much better at ability damage dealing to potentially make lower-end game runs more efficient, while Ash already has absolutely NOTHING to offer to make any lower-end game runs any tiniest bit more efficient whatsoever...). 

 

but you know what? i'm really strongly thinking about abandoning the game for a year or so instead, not as a kind of sassy statement or anything - i just really wonder if i will be able to manage to come up with the motivation required to just go on after this really devastating blow to my game in Warframe now. please turn the boat around 180 degrees swiftly DE! 

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Initial impression: my fun is back with polearm quick-melee. I have fluid, precise, powerful attacks again.

Spent most of my time in spy vaults trying to get the new hacking mods, as I generally use spy vaults to level weapons and frames solo, and the chance to auto-hack looks very useful. I bring this up, because I was able to smash crates and kill random enemies with precision as I ran through, whereas before this update, I would pass on all the crates because of all the rooting that messed up my flow.

So, so far so good. My interest in the game has returned.

 

Edit: Had an enjoyable time on Orb Vallis mining. Was able to use quick-melee to wipe out interlopers, and go right back to mining, without fiddling with the gear wheel. Much MUCH better.

Edited by (PS4)AyinDygra

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The aerial Nanchaku is super doofy.

The ground slam is good, the one forward swing is good..
but there's something incredibly goofy looking about spamming that Other one.

I can't even tell what's going on there.. but the obvious answer to solve it is Helicopter! 😃

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After playing awhile now with the new Melee Phase 2 I gotta say it feels so much better and fluid across the board. I feel that I can actually use other melee now than Polearms to get fluid and unrestricted melee gameplay and the range changes are good all in all. But I gotta say that it will take some time to actually learn away from using my trusty polearm Zaw 😄 , just because it is in all of my loadouts by default.

 

There is one thing with Heavy Melee Attacks that has been frustrating me and disturbing the fluidity for melee.

I cannot use Heavy Melee attack when I have a gun in hand.

There even is a completely separate keybind for Heavy Melee, but it doesn't do anything unless you are specifically already in melee mode.

This has literally gotten me killed several times over and it feels really wrong to attack one unnecessary melee swing just to get access to Heavy Attacks. I think that the reason why I'm not using "Lifted" status pretty much at all is due to this. When I jump high up into the air, shoot couple of times and try to slam down while still having combo counter to get the Lifted Status out, I just can't. I must use melee first and it causes a regular Slam Attack instead.

It also causes serious confusion during combat if you have any weapons utilizing secondary fire, like Fulmin. Mostly it feels good to have Heavy Attack and Secondary Fire binded to the same key, but with Fulmin I constantly change the fire mode accidentally. This breaks the flow really badly.

I've been using these binds:

 

Fire Weapon              ::: Mouse 1
Secondary Fire          ::: Mouse 4 (Thumb button, front) ::: [Unbound]
Melee Attack             :::  E
Heavy Melee Attack  :::  Mouse 5 (Thumb button, back) ::: Mouse 4 (Thumb button, front)

Melee with Fire Weapon Input ::: ON

 

So when I'm going crazy with melee I use secondary fire to use heavy attacks and mouse 1 for normal melee, but if I'm parkouring I want to be able to quickly slam down with heavy attacks using Mouse 5, but this is not currently possible.

TL;DR

Heavy Attack should be accessible instantly regardless of item/weapon in hand.

 

Edited by -Zr-Scroll
grammar

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consider reverting zenistar  but with new functionality:

initial 40sec duration on the disc,  and each combo counter increases by 5s  and not 10s then.

so both parties will be happy.

 

or release an augment that does this

 

 

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I've been loving the changes so far, except a couple of movement locks (which aren't that bad considering the range buffs and the constant access to gap closers), however, the controls need to be looked at. 

I'll keep it brief:

-We need the ability to initiate heavies from gun mode; right now on console the heavy attack conflicts with alt fire, but I know the "hold melee" input change is coming. When melee is held, it should directly perform a heavy strike/slam depending on context. 

-We need the ability to access block anytime. In its current iteration, block is an immensely valid defense tool, and in my opinion keeping its manual version behind the clunky full melee mode is just awkward. I've already made a post regarding a possible solution:

 

The TL;DR is: add an option to double tap aim to switch from gun to block and from melee to aim, while disabling the instant switch to gun when aiming while in quick melee. If it's too far, or if you consider it clunky, just give us the option to have manual block when in quick melee, and to switch to our guns exclusively with the "fire" input.

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I just want to say one thing about this De and I already made post on the forum about this but this new melee system is stupid. It breaks the flow of melees and not to mention the stack of zeni disc with combos is stupid. You Nerf it heavily and then when we even do get enough combo to get it to it's original duration we waste the damage multiplier just to send it out cause it's a heavy attack. It can't do the lifted status unless you hit something (I don't actually know if zeni heavy attacks can even cause lifted) but as it is right now is just a plain insult to your vets and people who had before the update. No ones going to waste the combo just to see an enemy fly when so many frames can just do what lifted does and with much more ease and efficiency. I honestly hope this new system gets removed because as it stands it's basically that one time you guys tried to do that slash, impact and puncture change that only hurt slash and didn't help the other statuses. This new system just hurts everything about melee, the flow is put off cause heavy is now tied into a different binding, no one will want to even see lifted status cause it just hurts the combo multiplier and damage and it hurts one of the most highly sought after weapons that more people grinded for for 500 days by nerfing it's duration. 

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Right now we need to sacrifice either control of our character in full melee to have full fluidity in semi melee or fluidity in semi melee for control in full melee. This can be changed by adding an option to use the "fire weapon" key(default is R2 on PS4) as melee attack for full melee mode only. If you set the current toggle off, R2 is useless in full melee but when you set the toggle on you need to tap l2 (aim) in semi melee mode to shoot.

 

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Can we have the option to use R2 for heavy attacks while in dedicated melee mode? Right now when I’m dedicated melee mode, R2 does nothing and I’d much prefer that over R3 for using heavy attacks. That way I can keep my thumb on my melee button and use my index finger for heavy attacks. That would feel a lot smoother and easier. Just an idea. 

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The only redeeming trait of the current Tempo Royale is the spammable slam attack. The net nerf to it's mobility (Tempo Royale's greatest advantage over rival stances), the removal of it's reliable multi-hitting attacks (compare the rate of slams and single swings in the current design to the old one's fluid, fast-paced motions and you'll see what I mean) and the exceedingly poor advancing strikes make the stance feel like a huge step backwards.

Similarly, I have nothing good to say about the current Cleaving Whirlwind. You dropped it from 7 spins to 5, and removed it's all-important damage multi entirely, nullifying it's main strength against rival stances. Right now it's only redeeming trait is that it's not Tempo Royale, since Tempo Royale is awful.

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@[DE]Danielle

Been playing around with the Telos Boltace quite a bit just to get a feel for the slight change to Storm Path’s second slide mechanic proc’ing Lifted Status instead of ragdolling enemies away from you. From what I can tell when testing this mechanic as a host, it’s “appropriate.” More work can be done to make the Telos Boltace much better, but whether you take feedback from the plethora of topics over the years in the Weapons Feedback section regarding mechanical changes to this weapon I suppose that’s in DE’s discretion.

However, the purpose of this post is to bring attention to how Telos Boltace behaves as a client. On second slide attack, instead of proc’ing Lifted status enemies are still ragdolled. Enemies can be ragdolled in a variety of directions but more often than not they can be launched at accelerated speed diagonally upwards toward the sky or launched straight up to the stratosphere. 

I would highly advise a hotfix for this. Or just remove the second slide attack mechanic on the Telos Boltace like a majority of players have recommended these past 2+ years since the beginning of its revisit.

Edited by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
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It's really sad that I still can't play without melee auto targeting because neutral combos move you forward (past enemies you're attacking)

 

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On 2019-11-18 at 3:45 AM, ArcKnight9202 said:

The (Prisma) Obex has an augment that's hard to use now. A while back, it was easy to knock down enemies with a ground slam and then pound them for the explosion. Now, however, ground slams just stagger enemies. Getting an enemy on the ground to pound them for the augment effects is sort of difficult.

Something to improve or change up how this mod works would be welcome. Having to carry a Blast Gun just to use this mod's ability seems silly.

 

I so much agree. This was a huge dissappointment, since Obex's charged attackes rolled righting into a finisher as well as some of its combos. So now Obex's augment is pretty hard to use and almost none functional.

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On 2019-11-20 at 6:19 AM, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Initial impression: my fun is back with polearm quick-melee. I have fluid, precise, powerful attacks again.

Spent most of my time in spy vaults trying to get the new hacking mods, as I generally use spy vaults to level weapons and frames solo, and the chance to auto-hack looks very useful. I bring this up, because I was able to smash crates and kill random enemies with precision as I ran through, whereas before this update, I would pass on all the crates because of all the rooting that messed up my flow.

So, so far so good. My interest in the game has returned.

 

Edit: Had an enjoyable time on Orb Vallis mining. Was able to use quick-melee to wipe out interlopers, and go right back to mining, without fiddling with the gear wheel. Much MUCH better.

It's not all good. Get Volt, give yourself something like 200% power strength (valkyr and wisp also work, even arcane strike does this), cast speed and try using the polearm again.

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On 2019-11-18 at 8:34 PM, seventhwalker said:

 

  • please fix the removal of free movement during combos of rapiers/ vulpine mask, they're not much used, its one of the unique features of rapiers.

I loved the rapiers for this reason. One of the few weapons that didn't mess with your movement at all with the basic combo. I'd love it if the two jump spins didn't slow you down. Either make it not affect your movement at all, or make it push you forward a little (like 0.5-1m) so it speeds up your forward movement just ever so slightly. I hate how it keeps slowing me down to a halt as it is now. :c
Also really sad to see the flurry of stabs from Hidden Flourish having disappeared. Did all the innate slash procs get removed as well for the forward combo?

 

On some other notes...
Add an option to disable "Hold melee to use heavy attacks". This becomes a problem once you hit a really high attack speed. Before it wasn't that big of a deal if you tossed out a random heavy attack, but since it now makes you lose your whole combo if you accidentally do it... Yeah. That's really not good.

Change block a bit. Make it so even when melee is equipped (holding F) it still automatically blocks everything within the block angle. Reduce the automatic block angle by 5-10º, and increase the manual block angle by 10-20º. Right now it feels detrimental to equip your melee since it disables automatic blocking, and it'd make manual blocking feel more useful. Maybe -5º angle for automatic block, and +15º angle for manual block (so +10º more than the current value) across the board? Else on a case by case basis per weapon category.

And I'm gonna repeat this again: Make it so even with "Use fire input to melee" disabled, let us use fire input to melee when melee is EQUIPPED, instead of having the fire button become unbound when you're in 'melee mode'. The way it works currently makes no sense.

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11 minutes ago, Redpaws said:

I loved the rapiers for this reason. One of the few weapons that didn't mess with your movement at all with the basic combo. I'd love it if the two jump spins didn't slow you down. Either make it not affect your movement at all, or make it push you forward a little (like 0.5-1m) so it speeds up your forward movement just ever so slightly. I hate how it keeps slowing me down to a halt as it is now. :c
Also really sad to see the flurry of stabs from Hidden Flourish having disappeared. Did all the innate slash procs get removed as well for the forward combo?

 

On some other notes...
Add an option to disable "Hold melee to use heavy attacks". This becomes a problem once you hit a really high attack speed. Before it wasn't that big of a deal if you tossed out a random heavy attack, but since it now makes you lose your whole combo if you accidentally do it... Yeah. That's really not good.

Change block a bit. Make it so even when melee is equipped (holding F) it still automatically blocks everything within the block angle. Reduce the automatic block angle by 5-10º, and increase the manual block angle by 10-20º. Right now it feels detrimental to equip your melee since it disables automatic blocking, and it'd make manual blocking feel more useful. Maybe -5º angle for automatic block, and +15º angle for manual block (so +10º more than the current value) across the board? Else on a case by case basis per weapon category.

And I'm gonna repeat this again: Make it so even with "Use fire input to melee" disabled, let us use fire input to melee when melee is EQUIPPED, instead of having the fire button become unbound when you're in 'melee mode'. The way it works currently makes no sense.

auto blocking already interrupts your combos unnecessarily when using the seamless melee mode...having the option to manually block in full melee mode is literally the only difference between it and the other mode and is the whole reason they reimplemented the full melee mode in the first place...how does it feel detrimental when auto blocking is a relatively new feature to the game not to mention before it wasn't even 100% damage reduction and was at a smaller angle for most weapons...just hold down your block button when u wanna block something dude its not hard

Edited by SirLethal

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So far? I am in love with these changes (Though sparring weapons are still... In need of tweaking) The cool combos I could rarely get right I can do easily however it does highlight something: 

In addition to our two types of forward and neutral combos we need a 'dodge' combo. 

Short range, low or no damage, let us control the vector in real time instead of locking us in.

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