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(PC) Melee Phase 2: TECHNIQUES Feedback

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But as just a little additional sampler, have the broken-limbed break-dance added to Eleventh Storm for no conceivable reason; and alongside it feast your eyes on the stiff-armed tackling poke-and-slide-along-the-floor added to Malicious Raptor. I asked for neither of these, and neither feels remotely like the old aesthetic of "master knight near retirement" and "Wolverine having a stressful day" either Stance once possessed.

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Yep, that sure is a "good replacement" for a far more cathartic claw-filled mauling. I absolutely wanted my delicious rampaging predator motions to turn into the freaking NFL broadcast as my Warframe slide along like a toddler wearing non-grip socks on a wax floor.

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SFtOsF3.jpg

Nothing says "technique and combat expertise" like crunchily imploding into a painful-looking contorted ball, in a fashion that is far too similar to an infamous scene from Futurama.

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His dying facial expression is an accurate summation of how "happy" I've been as a Valkyr player since Buried Debts. I am going to remember 2019 as the year of Warframe updates that took out things I loved and replaced them with downgrades.

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I don't have much to say. This melee phase is super fun and I'm enjoying it a lot. I look forward to improvements.

 

I notice that the stance crossing snakes's second attack of the W+E combo actually holds the pose for a second after the strike before softly returning or delaying into the third W+E strike so long as the pose is still active.

I think this would be a cool thing to do visually because it looks like we are deliberately delaying attacks similar to delaying attacks in For Honor. A lot of slower stances already are capable of being delayed and I think the warframes holding the pose makes them appear to have more expertise.

It also could show smoother transitions between moves instead of the warframe snapping from the 'return to idle animation' if an attack is delayed. 

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3ltjcjnr56141.png

 

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Probably got mentioned multiple times already, but the combo drain of heavy attacks really needs to change. Instead of draining ALL of the combo counter (220 hits) for a single heavy melee, it'd be better if it just drained a flat 2x (20 hits) instead per heavy. As it stands now, its actually harmful to use heavy attacks as it severely reduces linear DPS.

Personal idea: A heavy attack drains 20 hits, but also puts a 5 second freeze on gaining more combo. That way players can't infinitely loop heavy but can still use it frequently. On top of that, it'd be great is we could chain heavy hits. Basically the first heavy needs a second to charge, but all consecutive heavies are near-instant. This gives players a means to dish out extremely high burst damage at the cost of high drain. Just my 2 cents.

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I recently grabbed a Lacera, and Defiled Snapdragon's forward + block combo feels very sluggish to me, even at ~2.1 attack speed, especially compared to other stances' forward + block combos.

Edited by kxZyle

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I'm loving the new melee update, now i can use a lot of the melees, and i like it very mutch.

BUT:

We need a better stance for wips, i think that Atterax has really good stats, but is really bad to use, so for me, it is a weapon class that i won't use, witch is sad, i would love to use Secura Lecta to gain a bit more credits xD. (edit: The stances are slow, have few hits, makes u move to mutch, feels weak in damage and doesn't aply status as i think it should) 

And Wukong exalted stance is a bit too wierd for me, i would like to have at least one combo that is not so chaotic, so i can have fun with the monkey king. (wukong moves to much, is hard to aim, it is strong, but sometimes i have the feeling that i'm not hiting) (edit2:Would be nice to have something like Blind Justice for wips)

Edit: I have trying to get a variety of wepons riven to build and play with diferent melees, and that are my most "poping out" critics so far. Soon i will try to increase my variety tipes and say more.

Edited by -AI-Silvertap

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2 hours ago, -AI-Silvertap said:

I'm loving the new melee update, now i can use a lot of the melees, and i like it very mutch.

BUT:

We need a better stance for wips, i think that Atterax has really good stats, but is really bad to use, so for me, it is a weapon class that i won't use, witch is sad, i would love to use Secura Lecta to gain a bit more credits xD. (edit: The stances are slow, have few hits, makes u move to mutch, feels weak in damage and doesn't aply status as i think it should) 

And Wukong exalted stance is a bit too wierd for me, i would like to have at least one combo that is not so chaotic, so i can have fun with the monkey king. (wukong moves to much, is hard to aim, it is strong, but sometimes i have the feeling that i'm not hiting) (edit2:Would be nice to have something like Blind Justice for wips)

Edit: I have trying to get a variety of wepons riven to build and play with diferent melees, and that are my most "poping out" critics so far. Soon i will try to increase my variety tipes and say more.

Have you tried Coiling Viper? Sure, it only has 2 combos (boringly enough), but it's rather fast, and while not as AoE-based, it has good CC and decent mobility.

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25 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Have you tried Coiling Viper? Sure, it only has 2 combos (boringly enough), but it's rather fast, and while not as AoE-based, it has good CC and decent mobility.

I did man, but is also very bad, at least it is how i feel about it, i don't know why, but it simply just doesn't work, it is very bad, both stances, i don't witch is the worst...

Just tested again the coiling Viper, one of its problens is that it has so many lifts that i cant kill enemies, and even with 12x combo the damage is so low...

Edited by -AI-Silvertap

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I think hitting block should cancel moves like rolling does.

Also, Did we ever get "tactical roll?"
Still feel like I could use a tighter more controllable roll.

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10 hours ago, -AI-Silvertap said:

it is very bad, both stances, i don't witch is the worst...

Burning Wasp is the better one just as it was, it cleaves properly at least when in range. Far bigger ssue with both whip stances is whips got nerfed from 10~11m on normal attacks to 5.5m instead of down to 7.5~8m (aka 2.5m base range instead of 4.5~5m) without their damage being upped to the damage of the 2.5m range weapons and no, the very thin vertical poke for double range is not "equivalent" to its once base attacks being 10m. Not that either stance has enough stuff to them to make slide attacks not the better option with animation locks they got as more damage (and seem to no longer have the -1m to their range like they used to).

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Lifted Status has “Titania’s Syndrome” for which if you hit enemies, they go away. It just makes harder enemies more unkillable.

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Please allow us to instantly heavy melee right out of gun mode without having to switch using a basic attack first.  Heavy attack oriented builds feel so clunky without this ability.

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I love Tatsu, and I'm happy with its level of strength, but I strongly feel that the stance, Wise Razor, needs a speed buff.

Tatsu has a base speed of 1.00. It's not strange that being the first of it's weapon class, it's poised to have an average amount of speed. Despite this, it's actually comically slow. It looks like it's moving underwater or in slow motion. The swings, and especially the acrobatic moves, look ridiculous at such a slow speed.

More to the point though, it's stance moves are very high committal, which feels really bad with it having such slow combos. Starting up a standing attack or block forward combo locks you into quite long and specific use case animation, unless you roll out of it. Enemies can shoot you for a long time before your attack actually comes out.  Due to the vertical nature of the standing attack's hitbox, and the slowness of its other moves, you have the option of letting the opponent in front of you shoot you for a few seconds, or letting their friends do it.

After using a standing attack, the only options you have are to attack again, or roll. The stance locks you into finishing the wrist flick flourish. Any other weapon could jump away or shoot in this situation.

It is necessary to mod around the combination of it's terrible speed and stance limitations, which limits how you can build it and play with it. I've never felt like using a reach or speed mod was non negotiable before using this weapon, but I need at least 2 to make Tatsu usable. In practical usage, I think it's the slowest weapon I've ever used. It needs a Primed Fury or Berserker to make it feel as quick as an unmodded vanilla Galatine.

But it's not Tatsu that needs the speed buff. It's Wise Razor. In its current state, future versions of this weapon would need to be massively stronger in some area to make up for the seriously lacking speed. A two handed nikana under 1.00 speed would be ridiculous.

By all means though, I don't feel that Tatsu needs to be any stronger than it already is. I would trade some of its damage, to get a more accessible speed with Wise Razor.

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Quick background.

Ok so I missed the memo with this last 2 seasons because I was simply burned out from this game and the insane grind involved with it. The seasonal "battle pass" idea was also something that made me want to play even less instead of create incentive to want me to play more. Giving me a daily stamp card pretty much is simply the wrong way to go about making me play this game mate. I want to play the game, not the game to play me. And the notion that I have "challenges" to do forcing me to play specific ways or modes is hardly what I call content. That is just forcing on us what is in the game in seemingly random selections so we can feel we have "a lot to still do" other than just grind materials. Sure enough the challenges are fast enough, and over before you know it, then 1hr and more into the game you can finally start doing what you wanted to do in the first place. All good and all, until its the 4th week and I'm thinking no thanks.

So, burned out from Warframe as much as I love it is an understatement.

Knowing full well I would come back for railjacks, I decided to drop the game for a while so I can be much more excited when it drops and I even had it "programmed" as a to do with my clan so we can all return and grind the living hell out of this game again and have some fun.

 

To the point.

And so I returned today. I had heard they had done some melee changes. Pretty much that block was back. I was like, "ok, that can be nice. autoblock was a little too much and being able to block on demand was something I missed"... and to my surprise, its not just block is it... its more than that.

 

First of all, switching to melee from ranged real fast does not allow you to block (which is the current zoom button? lol). And straight up takes you back to ranged. Isnt that amazing? So to do block on demand you have to hold the weapon switch button to pull out to the melee weapon indefinitely. Kinda counteracting the entire idea of quickly switching to melee. Isnt that, SUPER amazing?

At least when we do fast melee swap its still fast like the last change. Which then made me realise, ummm, autoblock is still in the game. Which is ok I guess. But, what is the point then of the change? Ok sure, lets have both. No biggie. Its not perfect but its not bad either really. Hardly an improvement, hardly a downgrade. More of a mashup of the last 2 melee systems.

 

And then to my surprise.... channeling is gone! And replaced with heavy attack! An idea from like, what is it now, 5 years ago??? What on Earth are you doing? What? Some cry babies still whined that they wanted "executed" combos so you brought heavy back into the game? Which, is hardly even used for combos its like a few slow attacks here and there. If anything, the block you brought back gave more combos already so what is the point of heavy attack?

I'll tell you the point, the point is that I now have my favourite build become utter crap and useless. A melee based build (sometimes melee only period) with rage (gain energy for health lost) which works better with small shields and life leach on channeling to sustain the character in full out melee combat on some of the really high level content. And even then it was dangerous and ballsy as it was easy to get it wrong and die, but that was the fun of it. It wasn't a broken build, and it worked wonders. And now? Rubbish. Absolute garbage.

 

So my question is, why the hell should I play your game? Why the hell should I waste grind time and resources to make builds and level them up and their mods if you are going to change the system on us every other year? And how many more changes can we expect? Ya happy with the bloody current system or we going to get yet another change to melee? And all this shows me is that you guys clearly have no idea what you are doing with regards to melee. You seriously don't, do you. That's what it feels like if I am being honest. Like you are tip toeing around from feedback to feedback and all over the place and frankly you don't inspire any confidence in your own work with all this flip flopping about to the point that I can't take any of my time spent in this game seriously and it feels more like I am just wasting hrs for no reason at all on mechanics that the devs themselves dont have a clear direction to go on and will change again at any time as they see fit based on whatever flavour of the month feedback has given.

I was half excited to hear there was an update to melee as like I said one of my favourite builds is a melee focused build. But to my surprise it added a few things but little overall, was pretty much a mash up, some new block+attack combos which are cool, and took away an entire other aspect of melee. How about we get a straight up mechanic upgrade for once and not a complete mechanic change? I seriously got put off the mood of playing this game so much after seeing that. What clunky interface for it all as well, I am at this point sick and tired of rebinding things to figure out better ways to get it all to work together.

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When you're in quick melee mode, you block automatically so long as you're not attacking (and you don't switch back to a gun). 

And yes, your favorite build is now useless. There are new, better builds that do ridiculous amounts of damage. Warframe changes, note that we're on the third iteration of the melee system right now. If you don't like that, Warframe is not the game for you.

Aside from that... "battle pass"? What?

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4 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

When you're in quick melee mode, you block automatically so long as you're not attacking (and you don't switch back to a gun). 

And yes, your favorite build is now useless. There are new, better builds that do ridiculous amounts of damage. Warframe changes, note that we're on the third iteration of the melee system right now. If you don't like that, Warframe is not the game for you.

Aside from that... "battle pass"? What?

Regarding the ''battle pass'', I think he means Nightwave.

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1 hour ago, motorfirebox said:

When you're in quick melee mode, you block automatically so long as you're not attacking (and you don't switch back to a gun). 

And yes, your favorite build is now useless. There are new, better builds that do ridiculous amounts of damage. Warframe changes, note that we're on the third iteration of the melee system right now. If you don't like that, Warframe is not the game for you.

Aside from that... "battle pass"? What?

You seriously going to wave sizes around acting like "this game isnt for you" when I was here from Beta? Is that your best response? That there are better builds?

You are going to completely ignore the fact that game mechanics that don't need to be changed are changed and in the process are out with certain playstyles?

Builds are not just about damage, its about how you play the game, but I guess that is lost on you.

Note, we are on the 4th iteration actually, get your facts straight before you try to talk down on people. The first system, melee 2,0, then auto-melee equip with auto-block and no active blocking, and now this one. Don't worry, I know my Warframe just right.

 

If you weren't so deep in the $%$-kissing state, then you would of realised that mechanic changes are not meta-build changes, they are totally different things, and perhaps in the process realised also that a game changing its mechanics is like going to Quake and taking strafe jumping out or to UT and taking dashing out or going to For Honor and taking their directional defence out and each time changing the mechanics. The reason one plays a game is because they like certain mechanics, and when it settles after years, changing them is all the above I mentioned in my initial comment. A lack of vision. If you don't know this then gaming all together is not for you.

 

p.s, Nightwave, its a battlepass system. Call it what you will, its a battlepass system. Aka, a daily challenge system with its own progression that changes out every season.

 

Thank you for your condescending argument, it was amusing.

 

Tenno out.

Edited by HazaRD-WARRIOR
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16 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

You seriously going to wave sizes around acting like "this game isnt for you" when I was here from Beta? Is that your best response? That there are better builds?

You are going to completely ignore the fact that game mechanics that don't need to be changed are changed and in the process are out with certain playstyles?

Builds are not just about damage, its about how you play the game, but I guess that is lost on you.

Note, we are on the 4th iteration actually, get your facts straight before you try to talk down on people. The first system, melee 2,0, then auto-melee equip with auto-block and no active blocking, and now this one. Don't worry, I know my Warframe just right.

 

If you weren't so deep in the $%$-kissing state, then you would of realised that mechanic changes are not meta-build changes, they are totally different things, and perhaps in the process realised also that a game changing its mechanics is like going to Quake and taking strafe jumping out or to UT and taking dashing out or going to For Honor and taking their directional defence out and each time changing the mechanics. The reason one plays a game is because they like certain mechanics, and when it settles after years, changing them is all the above I mentioned in my initial comment. A lack of vision. If you don't know this then gaming all together is not for you.

 

p.s, Nightwave, its a battlepass system. Call it what you will, its a battlepass system. Aka, a daily challenge system with its own progression that changes out every season.

 

Thank you for your condescending argument, it was amusing.

 

Tenno out.

If you think I was being condescending, that's kinda your thing to deal with. I'm just telling you the facts. If you've been here since beta, then you know DE changes the game every year or two. If you're interested, there are melee builds out there that work somewhat similarly to the old style.

If you just want to be mad about it, go ahead and do that. But there are a lot of us who find the new system to be a great improvement, once we took the time to learn its ins and outs. Melee is as strong as it's ever been, maybe stronger—some players are doing melee eidolon runs, which would have been unheard of prior to the new update. Melee weapon and build variety are wider than they've ever been—even daggers are now a viable choice. And we've left behind a lot of the old issues, like being locked into melee animations during combos.

 

There is room for improvements and qol changes, but for the most part melee is pretty great right now. And if you think I'm just saying that because I'm "deep in the @$$-kissing state", well, again. That's your problem to deal with.

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Currently I have found a few things that are a little janky, don't know how else to put it.

 

I love the fact that you can go into a full melee mode, but it comes with some issues. If you only have a primary and a melee weapon equip then attempting to switch back from full melee to your primary does not work properly. I have had to equip my scanner and un equip my scanner to get back to my primary, or some other random button presses to get out of full melee. This is a recurring problem in a few other scenarios that I can not recall currently. I've had problems with using the scanner and full melee being not able to unequip it by pressing my switch weapon button, "Y" for me on Xbox.

 

I have been enjoying most of the other mechanics of melee for the most part... except for arial melee. It's interesting, and I feel at the very least that arial melee should have actual combos instead of just one repeating attack. Long term I would love to see something similar to FF15's aerial combat system. I feel that it would give Warframe's melee a new perspective and a fun and enjoyable system that could be built on.

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I am loving the massive changes to stances, despite some are a bit goofy if you just use the single button press for the standard attack (circle button for ps4) on a few stances.
I've noticed it sometimes does bug out (I think?) when I do a heavy slam mid air while I have my corinth equipped.(That or im derping out too much mid-mission idk)
 

On a semi-related note, is it at all possible to have it so we could use aura forma on melee weapons in the stance slot? I would love to freely swap around stances.

And will the few pvp only stances be added to normal stances as well at somepoint? Some weapons have only one stance *glares at my Ninkondi* >v>

 

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When it comes to Nikanas, they seem to only have one really good stance: Blind Justice. It has mobility and nice combos which hit several times, which is really important when using Blood Rush.

Decisive Judgement seems to suffer greatly from general clunkiness, every combo feels really slow. It's still pretty fun to use and combos look really nice, it's still not on par with Blind Justice. Perhaps increase the mobility during neutral and forward combo and add few slash procs. Tranquil Cleave has similar problems, but it also has absolutely terrible hold block combo which is just one hit. I would like to see both of these stances brought to same level with Blind Justice

 

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Please Remove heavy attack from my melee button. Heavy attack already has a button of it's own, it doesn't need to keep getting in the way of my enjoyment of close range combat.

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Also asking for an option to disable held-melee heavy attacks. It's completely uncontrollable with high-speed melee weapons, draining combo charges and pausing combat unpredictably.

Edited by Kthal

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I've been wanting to make this post a while ago but I might have been too busy enjoying the new melee update, so I procrastinated it 😄

Since the latest update hit though, I feel like it's the right time to express what I think... 

Please DE, consider the idea of adding button inputs to stances that are lacking them, such as Wise Razor which is lacking a Block Combo. 

I'm asking this because with the latest update on consoles, Wise Razor is in that weird spot where it doesn't have a starting hit that doesn't move you forward, since you moved the triple spin slash of Threshing Grain at the beginning of the Neutral Combo. Which is unintuitive given the fact that one of the goals of the update was to homogenize button inputs to sort predictable effects on every type of melee weapon.

A solution to this would be to add a Block Combo to Wise Razor, consisting solely in the triple spin slash I'm talking about. This way the player would have a reliable way to deal damage while standing still (sort of) with the Neutral combo and still be able to use that move whenever they want (like @Church367a suggested) via Block Combo.

Another stance that could benefit from this would be Coiling viper:

Currently the forward combo (which is the Neutral one too), Whistling Wind, consists in three inputs, with the second one having a lifted status... And that's the problem many players have pointed out: looping that combo makes it so that enemies get flung up and down since we are repeadetly inflicting the lifted status on an already lifted enemy, making the "flow" hard to control. 

Again, the solution would be to add a Block Combo and put there the trimmed version of the second hit of Whistling Wind's second input.

This way Whistling Wind would consist in three hits total (two horizontal swipes followed by the vertical, downward one), while the Block Combo would be the upward swipe that inflicts lifted status.

There are obviously more stances that could make use of this. Generally speaking, the idea is to give Block Combo more identity by being the "status wielder" other than just a different Neutral Combo, especially since this update introduced this new lifted status.

On top of that, you could give more importance to the lifted status by enriching with built-in bonuses borrowed by what mods typically give: for example there's a mod that gives 100% Status Chance on lifted enemies, Enduring Affliction: you could make it an innate characteristic of the lifted status effect, maybe with a halved value, to not take away the meaning of said mod. Or an innate Shattering Impact, with a value of 10 per hit stackable with the mod itself.

Nothing too damage-oriented, since we are already able to one shot enemies with heavy attacks since the buffs to Sacrificial Steel.

That said (sorry for the wall of text) I'll follow up with a more traditional feedback:

Mountain's Chisel (Whips' Aerial Combo): the first hit has its hitbox wildly dislocated to the player character's left, while having almost no capability of hitting forward, even with range mods (tried on the Scoliac weapon)

Planting Widow (Staves and Polearm's Aerial Combo): the first hit seems to not be affected by the base weapon range stated on weapon's stats. Range mods are not affecting it either (tried with the Broken Scepter weapon). 

Deadly Circle (Iron Staff's Aerial Combo): same issues as above.

Thunder Hydra (Cyclone Kraken's Block Combo): similar to the Whip Aerial Combo issues, the first hit of this combo has its hitbox mainly covering the area above the player's character, with poor capability of hitting enemies in front of them. Range mods affect it very poorly. 

Fangs of the Lindwurm (Defiled Snapdragon's Block Combo): I think moving the ability to inflict the lifted status from the first hit of Neutral Combo to the Block Combo would be ideal to give players more control over the flow of the combat. This way the player could have a much reliable way of inflicting the lifted status and follow up with the most damaging combo (the Neutral one). Current Block Combo has a knock back effect that is not ideal to land on lifted enemies since it disrupts the status and sends them far from the player. 

Edit: I apologize for any error or punctuation issues... But I'm on phone so... Yeah. Sorry. 

Edited by (PS4)DidacoJack

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MAKE EXALTED WEAPONS GREAT AGAIN

 

Seriously though, they need some love. 

Energy drains.. Less base dmg... Less Crit... Less Status.. Can't use blood rush, weeping wounds.. Condition overload nerf... Gladiator mods don't work as intended (bug I hope)... 

I mean I Love Wukong... But Im finding it hard to play him just because he's my favorite when I can throw on any warframe with adaptation n vitality and run around with any weapon br/ww ;(

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