Jump to content
[DE]Danielle

(PC) Melee Phase 2: STATS Feedback

Recommended Posts

il y a 37 minutes, kerogre256 a dit :

From overpower to useless.... gg....

The good ones (meta has changed) are better than guns, so... no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-06 at 9:22 PM, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Condition Overload not being it’s own damage multiplier algorithm

I could live with the update if DE could just make Condition Overload its own damage multiplayer algorithm again. And made the charge shot more passive to use. Because as it stands now Redeemer Prime is a bit borked. 

TL;DR:  I just want my mini Tigris Prime great again! tenor.gif

Edited by (XB1)SixGunLove
  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who doesn't care about meta and stuff and just likes meleeing around with glaives with Astral Twilight stance, I feel like the stance was a little bit butchered in fluidity.

I personally think that Forward Combo (Forward + Melee) moves a little weirdly forward, meanwhile my favourite combo from old stance which is now situated in Forward Tactical Combo (Forward + Block/Aim + Melee)  moves very slowly forward which looks super weird and has very little "feel" to it.

I know my feedback will probably be lost around the posts, but what I suggest that would make it feel better is to switch Forward Combo and Forward Tactical Combo animations, and make (switched) Forward Combo animation move forward as far as it used to in previous version of melee. I think that would make more sense, especially after reading the Dev Workshop, I think switching those animations around would fit the description of the Combos better.

Other than that it feels quite decent. I like the fact that throw is a separate button now just like when you dual wield, although I expected it to have the same "timing" quick time event of dualwield glaives had to deal more damage. But still, good change.

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-10-31 at 11:21 PM, Jenggo_Kalem said:

Nobody talk 'bout redeemer? Well it's sucks!

Why:

  1. Regular shot attack erase the combo counter,
  2. Where the blast proc when shooting foe's?
  3. My 100% Stat not proc 100%

Please fix the gunblade. Arrrrgghhh....

 

3 hours ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

I could live with the update if DE could just make Condition Overload its own damage multiplayer algorithm again. And made the charge shot more passive to use. Because as it stands now Redeemer Prime is a bit borked. 

TL;DR:  I just want my mini Tigris Prime great again! tenor.gif

 

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really sure where to put this, but 

I am not a fan of the graphical representation of the lifted status. Its not very immersive that the target just goes floating up in the air like I filled it with helium right after cracking it in the dome with my gram prime. It is odd that I somehow just negated the targets mass with a heavy strike. I'd like to see the lifted target be lifted into the air, and then com crashing back down, it would make more sense.

 

also....

Tempo Royal's Crowd Fall still shows <melee_channel>

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With Condition Overload changes, Primed Pressure Point has become almost obselete. Please reconsider to buff Primed Pressure Point (around 180-200% bonus damage) so it can compete with CO for non status weapons.

The changes on Blood Rush also made Critical Chance mods very obselete. Now. there's no reason to put in True Steel - Sacrificial Steel for the weapon since it scales with the combo counter. To counter this, DE should change flat out Critical chance bonus into Additive instead of multiplicative at the end of damage formula. This also gives ability for Low Crit- High Status weapons to compete with Crit weapons.

Please look again on Stand-alone Status chance mods like Melee Prowess (and other weapon type counterparts) and buff it (Maybe into 90% Status chance, but no elemental damage). This gives the choice to enhance status build weapons (melee too).

Please add a Heavy slam attack radius mod that adds flat bonus like range mods. It will become a great addition.

I am looking forward for Melee Exilus slot someday. It should be a slot for situational mods like Guardian Derision, Proton Snap, Dispatch Overdrive, Energy Channel.

 

Thanks and good luck for the balancing-bugfixes.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CO should be mutiplicative with Pressure point, but perhaps wiith only 3 procs to max

Maiming strike needs a buff or a complete redesign, one of the worst mods alongside slide attack nerfs

Bloodrush with 660% crit chance makes rivens with 60 or 120% crit chance useless, it decreases the range of useful mods and build variety.

Pressure point isn't desirable, true steel or any variation isn't desirable either.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey again! got another bit of feedback, just thought I'd mention exalted weapons haven't really been given their damage compensation like other melees. Some exalted melee's like baruuk's or excal's aren't affected too bad by this as they already had big base damage/didn't use the combo counter much anyway, but something like hysteria or iron branch feel pretty weak currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've seen most of the complaints of how the new damage numbers comes off as lackluster is due to how it now lacks a certain amount of scaling. However in my humble opinion a change that has now brought a majority of the melee weapons up to more of an equalized level despite nerfing of a few couldn't possibly be a an overall bad change, if anything our options are more open now then ever and that is a good thing. I feel as if these complaints and worries are coming from a more deeply rooted issue, something that's been nipping at our collective heels for quite a while now which forced us into these particular meta weapons in the first place. So DE...

when we getting that enemy damage reduction rework.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Besides combo counter increasing damage of heavy attacks what about combo counter increases chance to ignore armor with a hit?

To problem of armor scaling would be at least a little bit smaller? :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you be able to please clarify if the Condition Overload and Blood Rush changes are going to remain as-is, or if they'll be adjusted again? I don't hugely mind either way, I just want to know what's going on. I'm afraid to roll any of my melee rivens as these changes hugely affect the usefulness of base damage and crit chance bonuses, and everything seems like it's still so much in flux and subject to change. I'd really appreciate if you could give us some assurance about whether more changes will be made or not.

  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been enjoying the melee rework so far! The stances feel smoother to use (overall, from what I have used) with a lot less jolting around all over the place, and the combo meter -> heavy attack has been pretty fun, though not without combo efficiency.

I have a few modding-oriented suggestions:

Heavy Attacks and Combo Efficiency

Currently, draining all of the combo counter on a heavy attack (without any combo efficiency) is quite detrimental to any build using Blood Rush/Weeping Wounds, and makes heavy attacks pretty slow to build up again.

I'd suggest making heavy attacks use 50% of the combo counter at base, and have the combo efficiency mods scale off of that (up to the same 90% cap). E.g. with Reflex Coil, the 50% base combo efficiency would become (50% * 1.6) = 80% combo efficiency.

With this change, combo efficiency would still be worth building for (for more frequent/stronger heavy attacks), while making charge attacks more usable at base efficiency.

Crit Chance mods and Blood Rush

With the changes to Blood Rush giving it the same stat modifier as the other critical chance mods, it has become the only choice for the vast majority of crit melee builds, as even at 5x combo (4 stacks), it adds 240% cc, up to 660% at 12x combo (11 stacks). I will add here that I feel this was the right change to make, as Blood Rush was either dependent on having True Steel or a critical chance Riven fitted, or completely broken with it. (Not Maiming Strike levels of broken, but still pretty broken).

Buffing the standard critical chance mods to 3-4x their current values (less for Rivens) would make them (somewhat) worth slotting, for example:

  • An always active alternative to Blood Rush for infrequent melee use
  • Crit Chance for a low-combo Corrupt Charge heavy attack spam build
  • In addition to Blood Rush as extra critical chance, both at full combo, and after using some combo in Heavy Attacks

As some suggested stats (at 3-4x the current values):

  • True Steel - 210%
  • Sacrificial Steel - 264% (330% with both mods)
  • True Punishment - 280%, -20% combo count chance (currently 40%, with -10% combo count chance, so it deserves a buff)
  • Amalgam Ripkas True Steel - 264%

Heavy Attack Damage

This one is short and quick - the 120% Heavy Attack damage of Killing Blow is base melee damage, which doesn't stack very well with (Primed) Pressure Point. Thus, Killing Blow could do with having a larger increase of around 240% base melee damage, or be its own multiplier of around 1.8x.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't like the inability for the new melee system to scale (especially with long runs). Since you cap the combo counter to 12x and bloodrush/weeping wounds have stacking multipliers, you don't get any power at all against higher level enemies. Yes, heavy attacks are a good idea but there is absolutely no reason to use them right now. They're slow. Mods to increase heavy attack damage are scarce. Even then, mods such as killing blow are stacking, not multiplicative. The extra damage they do is nowhere near enough to justify blowing off some of your built-up combo. And you need at least 4 mods to make heavy attacks work - killing blow, reflex coil, focus energy and an initial combo booster from a riven or corrupt charge or amalgam organ shatter so the heavy attack is not completely slow. There's just too many restrictions and too many things that you need to build for that there's not room to do sustained damage anymore.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I know a revert is probably not going to be in order, so I'm not going to ask for that. However, I have been thinking of an idea to sensibly allow some sort of infinite melee scaling back into the game.

Have a secondary, uncapped combo counter that builds up based on how much combo multiplier you've expended by doing heavy attacks.

how this works: e.g. if the current combo counter is on 11x and you do a heavy attack that blows off all your accrued combo (i.e. combo efficiency = 0%), 11 is added to a secondary combo counter. And once you've done enough heavy attacks so that your secondary combo counter reaches 20, the secondary combo multiplier will be 2x, and this could, for example, give a more powerful effect across the board, for arguments sake, all your melee damage will be doubled (just like the old combo counter) and so forth... In this way, for arguments sake, one can generate a secondary combo up to 10x after 40 mins of doing heavy attacks in combat that generate a secondary combo counter of 200, making melee damage much much more effective.

To further this idea, you can even have perks that you can carry with you from the start of a mission that scales according to secondary counter, for example +10% flat critical chance per secondary multiplier to replace functions of the old Blood Rush.

This way, players should be very tempted to do heavy attacks albeit strategically, but most importantly, balance is restored against higher level enemies/long runs.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

I hope that whoever reads this considers this thoughtfully.

Edited by angel_bee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spring-Loaded Blade should be buffed ti 3 stacks and up to 3.4 additional range in order to align it with berserker (its crit counterpart).

Each stack giving 1.2 additional range and capping at 3.4 (like how berserker gives 30 per stack and caps at 75) in order to not allow for stupidly large boosts.

Its nonsensical that a conditioned mod gives a lesser bonus where theres also other conditioned ones that gives larger increases over its non conditional counterparts (berserker and primed fury, condition overload and primed pressure point, blood rush and sacrificial steel, weeping wounds and any pure status mod).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KittySkin said:

Spring-Loaded Blade should be buffed ti 3 stacks and up to 3.4 additional range in order to align it with berserker (its crit counterpart).

Each stack giving 1.2 additional range and capping at 3.4 (like how berserker gives 30 per stack and caps at 75) in order to not allow for stupidly large boosts.

Its nonsensical that a conditioned mod gives a lesser bonus where theres also other conditioned ones that gives larger increases over its non conditional counterparts (berserker and primed fury, condition overload and primed pressure point, blood rush and sacrificial steel, weeping wounds and any pure status mod).

2.5m max and 1m range per stack would be aligning to berserker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i know many people might hate me for suggesting this but considering how easy it is now to build combo to 12x

-> true steel 90%, rivens and sac steel buffed accordingly too.

-> blood rush...its a combo mod so why does it still apply to regular attacks ? theres no way to balance it or true steel and the others without making one of these groups waaaay to strong as it currently stands so: -> blood rush only applies to heavy attacks but also increases range of the heavy attack by +0.75 per stack.

this would basically revalue the basic crit chance stats aside of blood rush and make building for heavy attacks more worth it. build combo and then nuke the area with a high range high dmg attack. +9m at max rank is 3x primed reach and would easily set some weapons to 15m+ if used alongside primed reach. for any regular content such a heavy attack pretty much wipes the screen even without an status proccs so in my opinion people who really do like combo/bloodrush and dont just use it to use the "meta" can still do so and it would also give another argument for heavy attacks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not entirely sure why heavy attack isn't just Held attack, except for the stances that have a hold in the combo.
Maybe this will be what happens in the future.

The extra key for heavy is a little clumsy on my peripheries.
Channel, I just toggled on, so that wasn't a problem.
It's workable, but due to my own personal set up winds up a bit neglected.

Btw, Crossing Snakes feels 1000% better! Thank you for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2019-11-13 at 4:11 AM, Andele3025 said:

2.5m max and 1m range per stack would be aligning to berserker.

If it would be aligning to berserker, it would work 1.6 per stack, 4 at max stacks (similar to berserker and primed fury ratio).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KittySkin said:

If it would be aligning to berserker, it would work 1.6 per stack, 4 at max stacks (similar to berserker and primed fury ratio).

Berserker is 3 stacks, first 30% (1x value), second 30% (1x value), third 15% (0.5x value) due to cap despite third stack still providing a 30% bonus on code/in case of weird calculation modifications like slowdowns.
There is no ratio of berserker to fury/other attack speed mods as its a total attack speed modifier, not a base attack speed modifier and thus not applicable for comparison (its also why it doesnt apply its bonus to some recovery frame and finisher animation speed).

Thus if SLB worked like berserker it would also be 3 stacks at 1m, 1m and final 0.5m due to cap (tho actually coded to provide the full 1m bonus).

Edited by Andele3025

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, after about two weeks of testing... The only real problem i see is the disc on the Zenistar, wich btw i barely use, so i'm personally not that affected by that. That being said, it is a pretty big nerf on it. I kinda understand why it was done: (i think) because you are pulling away from the "press button then forget" gameplay (a la old ember ultimate), Zenistar disk worked the same, you threw it, then forgot until timer passed then throw it again. Disk timer being affected by combo counter was a neat idea, but the fact that when it dies you have to basically build a lot of combo counter to throw it again so it lasts a decent time basically has you being "unaffected" by the disc for a long time, putting you in danger (if doing an endurance run) or the objective (if doing a defence thing). So here's my proposed solution: Keep the mechanic of the timer being affected by combo counter, but make it that "actual" combo conuter counts to the already deployed disc. So let's say you throw the disc, it reads 10 seconds, you jump to a group of enemies, build enough combo counter that will "charge" the disk up to let's say 30-40 seconds, then you can pull back and heal or energize or something (even relax xD). Then when the timer is running low again, jump again into the fray and get some more disk time via hitting things. And rinse and repeat. This should a) steer away from "fire and forget" gameplay and b) provide with literally infinite disk deploy time (as long as you're keeping the time up via getting hits in)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once more about Zenistar

What i had

This build

Spoiler

CQBFsHPsS0m6B2UqqIUmqg.png

With this build i had 7 unique status procs(blast give count as 2) so what give me 26.84x damage from CO for Zenistar and for his Disk = 24398~ from Zenistar and 9383~ from Disk. Yep, this is very high damage numbers but this weapon hasnt any crit potential

What i have now? 14x damage from CO but for base damage and NOT working with Disk = 9384 for Zenistar. This lower than. Disk.Damage.Before.Update. About disk = 377

377

Its a joke? But this was not enough to totally nerf and because of this you give for Zenistar with disk 80 Impact damage. Why? Anyone know - this type of damage very not useful now and cant do enough damage for armored enemies. And Impact Damage now More than Slash which give to slash less chance than for impact. BUT this is not enough too! Base Disk duration now 10sec. Okay, i can understand why you did this - With melee need to play as melee and this is totally true and right. But Impact damage and nerf CO steal any chances to play active with Zenistar because it have not enough damage for good count of combo

Another question - You nerf Zenistar with all ways but why you dont do what you want to do we? You give us Heavy Attacks and how many can understand Combo Multiplayer dont work for Zenistar Disk too. Why? For what this mechanic if this mechanic break all Zenistar unique? You want use Heavy Attack -> You will lose all Combo Counter for disk. Disk was deployed -> you want use Heavy Attack -> disk will be returned and Combo Counter will lost

Many days before you said - Maybe with melee 3.0 Charge Attack will have punch throw as it was before nerf. Where? Why Zenistar cant throw 50 centimeters of anything? Why it cant throw simple cryopod or kuva siphon?

I know some weapons must be nerfed because they are too strong and very popular but why zenistar? MANY of players dont use it after punch throw nerfs and only for very levels it was used with specific team build. Yep it maybe bad and i can understand this but i cant understand so many nerfs for Zenistar

and after all - Zenistar riven disposition = 0.5, when Gram Prime still has 1.5 and MUCH more damage than any Heavy Sword

Im sad .(

 

UPD: Oh, i forgot something -With update zenistar take one of the lowest range buffs for heavy blades .c

UPD 26.0.7 And now you did that - Zenistar BUFF. But really? This is mostly useless buff i ever seen ./

Edited by -_-Haron-_-
  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The base duration for the Zenistar is still too low to be usable in the ways that most players used it in the past. The minimum cast time should be 30 seconds, not 10. Instead, the combo effect on the duration should be nerfed to compensate and avoid 2 minute cast times.

This way it has a usable base duration that is still lower than the prior duration, and players can still buff the duration if they wish by building the combo meter.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...