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(PC) Melee Phase 2: STATS Feedback


[DE]Danielle
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The zenistar disc range now is too bad even with a riven and primed reach making our builds usseless, the duration of the disc is trash too and need to be reverted or buffed, the visual fire effects reach the enemies and not deal damage like before, zenistar as a heavy blade is too bad even with the ""BUFFS"" of melee phase 2 and we use it only for the disc

One of the best melee weapons now is the worst!!!

War, the stalker sword need a change on his stats, more slash and low impact makes a great diference, and the heavy attack need to be like the excalibur exalted sword hit or the "stalker exalted cut" that would be interesting and fun to use.

And all the daggers need a serious rework...

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In today's hotfix 26.0.7 this change as made (Removed Combo Hit Multiplier with Glaive's hit damage. Only explosive damage will use the Combo Multiplier.). This is a step backwards as this previously lackluster weapon type felt new and refreshing as throwing your thrown weapon actually felt rewarding once you raised your combo multiplier. without this functionality the weapon might as well just be another regular weapon because the throwing function has once again become useless as it does literally no damage. I went from being able to kill a 125 corrupted heavy gunner with 2-3 throws at a 12x multiplier to it taking over 10 throws sometimes close to 15 at the same multiplier. Now i understand that only heavy attacks were intended to benefit from the combo multiplier but maybe some exception or middle ground can be made/met like a buff to the throwing portion of the weapons damage because this was a big disappointment to log into as i was actively using my glaive prime and wolf sledge and now while the melee damage is still good ive lost all incentive to use either of these weapons over others as I was taking advantage of the thrown aspect.

Edited by SirLethal
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I also found it weird that Zaws weren't adjusted for the changes either. Aside from lacking the ability to slot an arcane and a tiny bit of viral damage, my Plague Kripath polearm is now strictly inferior to Orthos Prime in every regard.

Given that Zaws take a disproportionate amount of time and resource gathering to obtain, I'm kind of disappointed that their stats have fallen to the wayside. I'm not saying Zaws should always be best in class, but they shouldn't be completely outclassed to this extent.

Dp2MS95.png

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Dear Developer,

I found that the maximum stacks of Combo Multiplier is a bit too low and it had limit the potential of Blood Rush by a lot. Therefore I think it is better if you raise the maximum stack from 12 to 25 or 30. that will give more room for Critical build to reach higher tier of Critical without too much drain on mod and damage. 

Or may be add more slot for Melee Weapon like Weapon Exilus but also include Critical Chance Mod (I.e. True Steel) as Utility should also mitigate the problem somewhat.

Thank you

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With the recent changes to True Steel and Sacrificial Steel where it affects base crit chance and then doubles-down the listed value for heavy attacks, I just feel that for whatever it’s worth we’re making melee modding very similar to gun-modding with Warframe now. It’s not necessarily bad, but I’m more than ever unsure how the direction to melee modding is going from now on.

Maybe Maiming Strike should be changed to have a Vigilante-esque effect where on slide attack it has a chance to enhance crits? We’re legitimately at that point now.

But even then, this is still drawing attention away from base crit chance mods not being interactive with Blood Rush or Gladiator set mods. Instead of dynamic scaling of crit via combo counter, we’re getting flat values for crit. So, as a result (still), weapons that have a higher base crit value will still trump over weapons that have lower crit values.

Still no development or changes to how Condition Overload works now. At this point I’d like to see Brozime’s requested change to be implemented, anything is better than an algorithm that is additive to Pressure Point.

The unfortunate case for me, as a console player, is that our update only goes as far as u26.0.6. We might have to wait a month or so in order to get the u26.0.7 update, or any update soon to come after it.

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So after having played around with melee 3.0 phase 2 for about two weeks-ish, I believe I have made up my mind on how I feel about the balancing/stat part of the changes.

As much as I would rather not have to say this but, I am (overall) really really not happy with the stat changes. By desing, shouldn't melee weapons always do way more damage than primaries/secondaries? After all you have to (at leas in theory) sacrifice safety and range to go up to the enemies and attack them. Right now, I feel like melees are a bit weak, I also have somewhat of a problem with where the meta is seemingly pushed. Let me elaborate:

The good: 

Normalising ranges: Whoever came up with this, we're buddies now. I love being able to pick "smaller" weapons and not having to go up to an enemy's hugging range to attack him. This alone feels like it makes pretty much 100% of the previously underused weapons viable again while also keeping the long-ranged weapons reasonable. Same goes for the reach mods. I am really really happy with that. That feels great.

The bad:

Heavy attacks: I have several issues with heavy attacks from a balancing/stat perspective.

-Firstly: From where I am standing, it seems like either heavy attacks are either never going to be worth it or normal attacks are never going to be worth it. Depending on the build either of the two suffers greatly.

If you decide to build towards heavy attacks, having to constantly sacrifice combo counter is going to hurt combos/normal attacks. If you decide to ignore heavy attacks altogether, why are they even there in the first place?

Builds focusing on heavy attacks boil down to: "spam heavy attack all the time". My question is, would that really be so different from "spam slide attacks all the time" which the developers are seemingly trying to move away from? Replacing one form of spam with another is questionable to say the least. At the same time however, especially with the changes to blood rush and true/sacrificial steel it seems like the devs want us to move away from combos and shift the meta towards heavy attacks. I just do not see this happening as in most cases, heavy attacks feel clunky. What's most likely going to happen ,if things stay the way they are, is that the weapon types with the most passable heavy attacks become the meta and every other class goes out the window.

Damage potential:

From what I have seen, the players' damage potential has seen a drastic hit. This due to three reasons:

-Combo counter: Not gaining additional damage on your normal swings is very noticable. Most weapons had their base damage (more or less) doubled to counter this. However, most of the time you were able to keep at least a 3x multiplier quite comfortably so this is a hit in damage.

-Condition Overload: Obviously everyone and their mother are complaining about this. Having CO be calculated the way it is now has really really hurt not only players' maximum damage potential but also purely status-based weapons. To be honest I did not really see the issue with old CO. If you wanted to do absurd amounts of damage, you had to go out of your way to make sure every enemy has several status effects on him before you hit that enemy. In low levels this was mostly impractical and in high levels you need all the damage you can get, so I am a bit curious as to why CO had to be hit this hard.

-Blood Rush: It's relatively clear that getting to red-crits (or highter) is very very difficult now. So critical builds have also taken a hit.

Seeing how the "steel" mods were changed in the recent hotfix instead of blood rush shows that the devs might want us to move away from this mod and builds that rely on combo counter in general. That is fine to be honest. I would however, like to have an option of building my melees to do comparable damage to before the changes. (a sidegrade so to speak). At this moment however this is not possible.

It is always annoying to have your damage nerfed but this is definitely a bit much. I hope some things can be changed.

I know this was quite the long post. I hope it's not too "all over the place". In conclusion though, I can say again, I am not happy with the balancing of melee right now.

Peace & Love

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Crit Chance mods are problematic. The most recent change to the Steel mods was an interesting move, but it leaves us in one bad spot still:

The viability of a weapon is extremely dependent on its crit profile. 

It also further exacerbates a problem with how Heavy Attacks were designed: you either go all-in on Heavy Attacks and spam them exclusively, or you forgo them entirely and go all in on Blood Rush. This stems from the fact that Heavy Attack consumes all your Combo Counter. In theory, this could be addressed with Combo Efficiency on the weapon build, but then you're sacrificing mod space, which means even if you can get an effective "hybrid" build, it would be worse than a build that focuses on just one attack type.

Ultimately, I think the Steel mods change subtly highlight the fundamental flaw with Heavy Attacks: it doesn't play well with another established play style, forcing the player into an either/or situation, never a both.

It also points to a fundamental flaw with mods that increase crit chance: they only work on weapons that already have good crit chances. It's the Reach issue all over again.

Related to the above point: Status Chance has the exact same issue.

The fix? Not sure, but here's a shot: 

  • First, you have to change how the combo counter works. It can't all be spent, all at once. Also, you need to remove any sort of mega buff for not spending it for a long time. So do something like: Your combo counter must be at least 20 to use Heavy Attack, and each use of Heavy Attack spends 20 of your combo counter. You can build your combo counter as high as you like. It no longer lists the effect of the combo counter as a multiplier. Instead, it just lists the number of Heavy Attacks you have saved up. And, this is important: nothing in the game should give you a benefit for getting a bigger number of Heavy Attacks saved up outside of the fact that you could do a certain number of heavy attacks in a row.
  • Heavy Attack gets changed. No longer does it have it's own stat block on the weapon (which, really, could just be summed up as a x5 or x6, depending on the weapon). Instead, it's just a multiplier that gets applied to Crit Chance, Status Chance, and Damage. This multiplier is used last, taking all buffs into account (so mods effectively get multiplied). This multiplier could vary by weapon, and for further complexity and possible player customization, the multiplier could vary by stat within the weapon (ie, Venka Prime could get a x4 Crit Chance, a x3 Damage, and a x2 Status Chance on Heavy Attacks).
  • The above should address the issue that, currently, Heavy Attacks and Light Attacks are an either/or thing, and you never plan to do both in your build. Also, by expanding what a Heavy Attack can affect, you also give design space for weapons that can have affinity for certain build types, both by its starting stats and by how Heavy Attacks influence it.
  • It should be noted that several boosts would need a closer look for balance's sake: Initial Combo (which would be/currently is kind of overpowered--honestly, this stat should just be a very high % of Combo Count Chance, like 200-300%), Combo Efficiency (which, like Initial Combo, could obviate the need for light attacks--maybe a hard ceiling of 50%?), and Combo Duration (which might still be okay, but also might just not be worth it; keep an eye on it).
  • Change all Crit Chance boosting effects to work like Reach boosting effects. Ie, they give an actual boost in percentage points, not a relative boost based off a base value. Bring True Steel down to like 40%. Sacrificial Steel to 60% (75% with set bonus). True Punishment 30%. Ripkas Amalgam 50%. Rivens at 40% + or - disposition. Maiming Strike 50%*.
  • Give all Status Chance boosting effects the same treatment. As there are more of them, their overall numbers should probably be lower. BUT, players need to be able to build for status chance, still--and there needs to be a reward for breaking 100%, just like with Crits (more on that below).
  • Blood Rush and Gladiator set, as well as Weeping Wounds, get changed to big, flat buff with a duration that is applied/refreshed whenever you perform a Heavy Attack. Something like (for Blood Rush) "When you perform a Heavy Attack, gain 100% Crit Chance for 15 seconds." It should be noted that this bonus gets applied to the triggering Heavy Attack, and before Heavy Attack multipliers, making Heavy Attacks the path to those massive Red numbers players love seeing.
  • *Maiming Strike could even have a similar effect: rather than granting a buff to just spin attacks, it could grant a duration buff for performing a spin attack, further encouraging players to make fuller use of the various melee mechanics.
  • I never got to play with old Conditioned Overload, but there is quite a bit of feedback that the current Status builds for melee weapons just aren't strong enough. The way you could potentially address this is to give the players more agency on applying Status effects, and also give them a reason to build to crazy levels of Status Chance.
  • One idea: When attacking with a weapon with over 100% Status Chance, for each full 100%, apply one status effect, prioritizing the effect with the highest weight to be applied. No single status may be applied more than once per attack. The leftover Status Chance (< or = 100%) functions as normal (but the limit on no single status being applied more than once per attack still applies).
  • This would give players both the ability to very rapidly apply multiple statuses (making CO feel like a much better increase over PP and its variants), as well as control over which statuses they apply. It could make Viral + Slash builds very powerful, but that's okay as the issue right now is that status builds aren't able to keep up with Crit builds. It also allows Status builds to play with Heavy Attacks, since they could dramatically increase the amount of Status Chance.

This post has gotten quite a bit longer than I initially intended. Hopefully, it's useful.

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Fully agreed. The change to Steel mods does give them a certain viability, but it does effectively encourage a monomania approach. While this is not that bad in terms of accepting that melee damage would derive either from crit or status (this is where I repeat that I think hard-limiting interaction with CO and crit mods would be important for balancing just between two types of damage and not have to worry about a hybrid grabbing interaction of both like what happened with unholy trinity of CO, BR, and Meme Strike), there is a problem with regards to Heavy Attacks that they are now more separated from other aspects of melee, with a build using them ONLY using them and other builds only using them to heal once in a while.

This is a statistical matter, the question of how poorly Heavy Attacks chain into normal melee due to clunky animations still remains. Right now we're headed for the negative element of Meme Strike (on its own) that it makes one engage with only one aspect of melee (albeit not as limited and macro-driven as Meme Strike was) instead of there being a benefit to engaging with the entire system.

Rage Mode and melee Exilus could be a way to allow for full spectrum melee, if you have to balance normal attacks and heavy attacks to reach the "Rage Mode" and Exilus could allow for say Life Strike or Heavy Attack mods to fit into any build.

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I have a suggestion for melee weps regarding C.O. :

Allow *status weapons* to proc status chance multiple times, per single strike. 

I'm not really sure what would be a balanced way to do this, and I can't really provide the math or odds for the chance of each new status proc happening (Per single strike). However, this might help the complaint that people have about C.O.

 

I watched both Xandy Pants' and Brozime's video on C.O. and I know one thing for certain... They're both right and wrong about their contrasting arguments. . 

Brozime's main argument is that not every melee attack/weapon can benefit well from C.O. because it'll only proc one status at a time, per strike. He seems to base his argument on the bias of killing enemies with 1-2 hits. The only validity for his argument that "Condition Overload Sucks" is that  weapons only proc one status at a time. 

Xandy pants' argument is that it's better than Primed Pressure Point, for non "heavy attack" builds. He even demonstrated how effective the weapon can be at killing high level enemies, with only C.O. and without using outside sources for status procs--instead of just talking about math, unlike brozime, who only discussed math. However, it does still take quite a bit of buildup which is something that can get you killed during gameplay--which does support brozime's argument, because you do zero damage when dead. 

So I thought that a way to meet in the middle without making C.O. insanely OP again (or completely mandatory for any melee build) is just to let "status themed" weapons proc multiple status types within a single hit. 

This could be a separate weapon stat, and you could even make a new mod around it to help further enhance status builds. Or it could also be used to diversify other builds.

 

P.S. I'm NOT talking about a melee equivalent to multishot

Edited by Maka.Bones
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Proccing status multiple times with over 100% proc chance and counting it for CO is a good idea IMO ("stealth" status procs on targets otherwise immune to status is also a good idea). All you need is just a sensible cap for CO comparable to Crit or Heavy Strike build DPS after factoring in projected proc effects, and some mutual exclusions between mods (ie, CO should be incompatible with crit mods to prevent hybrid feedbacks).

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1 hour ago, vaarnaaarne said:

Proccing status multiple times with over 100% proc chance and counting it for CO is a good idea IMO ("stealth" status procs on targets otherwise immune to status is also a good idea). All you need is just a sensible cap for CO comparable to Crit or Heavy Strike build DPS after factoring in projected proc effects, and some mutual exclusions between mods (ie, CO should be incompatible with crit mods to prevent hybrid feedbacks).

I was thinking more along the lines an extra weapon stat (like the followthrough stat) that allows weapons to proc multiple status effects, beyond the first proc.

  • Most weapons would have a "1" for "only one status proc chance, per hit. Meanwhile high MR weapons, or weapons designed around status effects, could have between "1.2 - 3, proc chances, per hit.  4 or greater, on rare and very specialized weapon types (or with a riven). This could also be made into new mods, and new nightmare and/or corrupted mods. 

Otherwise i'd imagine an extra status proc for every 35-50% proc chance, might be more practical than an extra proc chance above 100% status--like orange crits. Because there aren't many weapons that can build above 100% status chance, without sacrificing more damage/practicality than CO would give (unless there's a crazy riven involved). There's also the point that status procs don't offer the same type of damage magnification, as orange or red crits. So it wouldn't be too drastic to give an extra proc chance for every 35-50%. Fire and slash would get diminishing returns, since this is mostly meant for proccing DIFFERENT status effects. So ideally the theorized "additional status proc chance" would cycle through other status effects first, before considering another slash or fire proc.  (or simply ignore existing status effects, and only apply new/ non-existing status effects).

 

Edited by Maka.Bones
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The way Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds work probably needs to be looked at somehow, as I feel that's where a lot of the complaints are coming from with accidental heavy attacks. With them being tied to the combo counter, executing a heavy attack by accident goes from "oh crud, now I have to build up my heavy attack again" to "oh crud, now my crit and status are tanked and I have to build up my heavy attack again". The former is basically fine because everything is isolated to the world of the heavy attack. The latter becomes problematic because that one move impacts the weapon's overall performance.

What @waterboytkd posits above is one option. Putting those mods on their own combo counters is another. I'm not picky on the solution, but something probably should be done about that somewhere and somehow...

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13 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

The way Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds work probably needs to be looked at somehow, as I feel that's where a lot of the complaints are coming from with accidental heavy attacks. With them being tied to the combo counter, executing a heavy attack by accident goes from "oh crud, now I have to build up my heavy attack again" to "oh crud, now my crit and status are tanked and I have to build up my heavy attack again". The former is basically fine because everything is isolated to the world of the heavy attack. The latter becomes problematic because that one move impacts the weapon's overall performance.

What @waterboytkd posits above is one option. Putting those mods on their own combo counters is another. I'm not picky on the solution, but something probably should be done about that somewhere and somehow...

How about making them kill based like the augment for Wukong's 4th? It would remove the downside of using heavies, and at high levels it would actually make heavies useful by giving you a burst of damage to kill armored units to increase your stacks. 

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Am 31.10.2019 um 19:12 schrieb [DE]Danielle:

snip~

 

now after reviewing all melee types, including some which exceed 130% base cc with my builds/rivens but without bloodrush, i think:

true steel -> 90%

sacrificial steel -> 120% but give it a 3x value for heavy attacks (360%). its unviersally too strong now and a non-choice imo.

rivens should be changed to fit these buffs so that 120% is the new base. 90% has been the base for rivens, considering it shares the same value range as crit dmg, meaning even in this regard it would be fitting to set true steel to 90% but to retain riven crit chance being actually valuable -> 120% base, which would be in line with other weapons on which traditionally crit chance can reach higher % as crit damage.

to be honest, melee, except for some single cases still doesnt seem too broken strong, but in my opinion balance wise it is still in its most broken state:

sac steel is a non choice-right now, because 220% (440%) cc is just silly, especially considering it renders rivens obsolete with crit chance.

i still think the only way to balance base cc mods and blood rush is to make blood rush heavy attacks exclusive. giving it a +range per stack for heavy attacks would make heavy attacks better for practical use. the tools are already there with efficiency mods and duration and combo gain, but one high dmg heavy attack that only hits within ~5m on average is not worth building for compared to alternatives, even with sac. steel the way it is right now.

i repeat my own suggestion from some days ago, i know, but there are baseically 4 mods which compete for BiS (best in slot) status. if u want to delete the BiS: yes/no question u have to give them different jobs, fundamentally. bloodrush being universally a crit chance scaling makes it a competitor ALWAYS unless u drop the % to unusable amounts. the opposite, buffing the other stats to high heavy just screws the whole balance even outside of just true/sac/blood/riven-crit chance.

now berseker is also a non choice because crit consistency is not there anymore...its actually: can a weapon exceed 100% and be especially crit viable. the only weapons which cant use berseker are the ones with below 10% cc, and those are few which many people wont touch now.

arcane fury is also a non choice on melee-only builds because due to berserker being nearly insta max stacks on 75% of weapons theres no reason to go for arcane strike over fury, so even arcanes are affected.

on the other hand: condition overload was nerfed because it was called too broken. actually, old condition overload would be balanced with the current state of crit chance amounts avalaible now whilst the whacky situation still devalues crit chance rivens.

 

Ps: its surely funny seeing a lot of weapons having 90%+ base cc...but balance wise and build diversity wise this is a disastrous situation imo.

 

 

Edited by Xydeth
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7 hours ago, (XB1)ShonFr0st said:

How about making them kill based like the augment for Wukong's 4th? It would remove the downside of using heavies, and at high levels it would actually make heavies useful by giving you a burst of damage to kill armored units to increase your stacks. 

That's an option too. As I said, not terribly picky.

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7 hours ago, Xydeth said:

 

 

now after reviewing all melee types, including some which exceed 130% base cc with my builds/rivens but without bloodrush, i think:

true steel -> 90%

sacrificial steel -> 120% but give it a 3x value for heavy attacks (360%). its unviersally too strong now and a non-choice imo.

rivens should be changed to fit these buffs so that 120% is the new base. 90% has been the base for rivens, considering it shares the same value range as crit dmg, meaning even in this regard it would be fitting to set true steel to 90% but to retain riven crit chance being actually valuable -> 120% base, which would be in line with other weapons on which traditionally crit chance can reach higher % as crit damage.

to be honest, melee, except for some single cases still doesnt seem too broken strong, but in my opinion balance wise it is still in its most broken state:

sac steel is a non choice-right now, because 220% (440%) cc is just silly, especially considering it renders rivens obsolete with crit chance.

i still think the only way to balance base cc mods and blood rush is to make blood rush heavy attacks exclusive. giving it a +range per stack for heavy attacks would make heavy attacks better for practical use. the tools are already there with efficiency mods and duration and combo gain, but one high dmg heavy attack that only hits within ~5m on average is not worth building for compared to alternatives, even with sac. steel the way it is right now.

i repeat my own suggestion from some days ago, i know, but there are baseically 4 mods which compete for BiS (best in slot) status. if u want to delete the BiS: yes/no question u have to give them different jobs, fundamentally. bloodrush being universally a crit chance scaling makes it a competitor ALWAYS unless u drop the % to unusable amounts. the opposite, buffing the other stats to high heavy just screws the whole balance even outside of just true/sac/blood/riven-crit chance.

now berseker is also a non choice because crit consistency is not there anymore...its actually: can a weapon exceed 100% and be especially crit viable. the only weapons which cant use berseker are the ones with below 10% cc, and those are few which many people wont touch now.

arcane fury is also a non choice on melee-only builds because due to berserker being nearly insta max stacks on 75% of weapons theres no reason to go for arcane strike over fury, so even arcanes are affected.

on the other hand: condition overload was nerfed because it was called too broken. actually, old condition overload would be balanced with the current state of crit chance amounts avalaible now whilst the whacky situation still devalues crit chance rivens.

 

Ps: its surely funny seeing a lot of weapons having 90%+ base cc...but balance wise and build diversity wise this is a disastrous situation imo.

 

 

Sacrificial Steel is a 10 rank legendary mod that takes 16 capacity with an Umbra polarity, its strength is justified.

Bloodrush still gives 660% crit chance over steel's 220%. Arcane fury is additive to pressure point mods, so arcane strike still has its use over it. 

Your problem seems to really just stem from crit chance rivens which have not been properly buffed yet, and most likely will be buffed to match the new values soon enough.

Sacrificial steel is not a "non-choice". Players that enjoy dedicated melee playstyles will benefit much more from maintaining combo counter for blood rush's 660% crit. Those that use melee sparingly have the option to use sacr steel.

Edited by Dragazer
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On 2019-11-15 at 1:35 PM, Reppuzan said:

I also found it weird that Zaws weren't adjusted for the changes either. Aside from lacking the ability to slot an arcane and a tiny bit of viral damage, my Plague Kripath polearm is now strictly inferior to Orthos Prime in every regard.

Given that Zaws take a disproportionate amount of time and resource gathering to obtain, I'm kind of disappointed that their stats have fallen to the wayside. I'm not saying Zaws should always be best in class, but they shouldn't be completely outclassed to this extent.

Zaws not only dont take a disproportionate amount of time (less so than relic procces), but they also have a extremly low MR threshold at the cost of gilding to bring them up, as such they should always be inferior to prime weapons tho except for a single stat or two you build for (if you do so e.g. gutting damage for attack speed or status for crit). Thats why primes are PRIMES (and why zaws have arcanes).

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On 2019-11-16 at 3:24 AM, Maka.Bones said:

I have a suggestion for melee weps regarding C.O. :

Allow *status weapons* to proc status chance multiple times, per single strike.

So I thought that a way to meet in the middle without making C.O. insanely OP again (or completely mandatory for any melee build) is just to let "status themed" weapons proc multiple status types within a single hit. 

This could be a separate weapon stat, and you could even make a new mod around it to help further enhance status builds. Or it could also be used to diversify other builds.

CO wasnt op because of its calculation, but because of it multiplying itself/exponentially scaling like armor does for EHP. Without self-scaling it would have been, while strong, reasonable. Multi status per hit wouldnt solve anything other than make guns even better.

 

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Sacrificial steel is not a "non-choice".

It is, because its always worse than Blood Rush on normal builds thus will never be used on them and is only worth the slot on initial combo counter builds which dont need crit help.

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so frames and weapons have suffered the loss of the multiplier damage buff. ashes 4 was hit the hardest. what is the point of his 4 augment if i does not gain any benefit from combo any more? so here is what i think needs to happen: frame ability melee, landslide wip claw and bladestorm(gara's 1 too i guess) should gain 1/3 of the current combo multi, or just add the effect that the combo multi now effects bladestorm without consuming combo when using the augment. or just give us 1/3 of the multiplier to all normal melee attacks.

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4 minutes ago, FrigidMesa said:

so frames and weapons have suffered the loss of the multiplier damage buff. ashes 4 was hit the hardest. what is the point of his 4 augment if i does not gain any benefit from combo any more? so here is what i think needs to happen: frame ability melee, landslide wip claw and bladestorm(gara's 1 too i guess) should gain 1/3 of the current combo multi, or just add the effect that the combo multi now effects bladestorm without consuming combo when using the augment. or just give us 1/3 of the multiplier to all normal melee attacks.

Abilities still benefit from the combo counter but at 1/4 the value. At max combo 12x at 220 hits, it gives you 3x dmg boost on Blade Storm and related abilities.

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Some weapons at around the same mastery are just better in every single way than others. The biggest problem  I have is with Telos Boltace and Kronen Prime. While I do like both weapons, I think Telos Boltace needs a bit of a buff. Maybe even bring back its old ability with spin attacks. I think with the new melee changes it won't be as overpowered as before, since melee requires LoS now.

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please buff the glaives they all got severely weakened so much that these weapons arent even usable anymore...

My glaive prime built with 100% status used to be able to kill level 100 with ease with 1 to 2 perfect throws dealing 5k+ slash procs after the rework it became 700 slash proc damage and 1k throw damage

The glaives were my favorite but now i wouldnt touch these melee weapons anymore...

I tried building for heavy attacks and high crit damage but no matter what i do it can never kill efficiently...

It would require 5-6 throws to atleast kill anything that has armor and these throws take forever to wind up and have the glaive return to you as well

Edited by KenthNisshoku
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