(PC) Melee Phase 2: STATS Feedback

[Sohaya-]

The issue isn’t “melee no big numbers now”

It’s “wtf is melee’s role in the game”

It doesn’t compare to a gun right now, at all. There’s no point using a melee. I’m fine with a lower power ceiling but no scaling + eh dmg + strong enough for newbie handholding throughout the start of the game? No pls

Im sticking with my Lex. It still handles stuff fine.

[DanteVonLucifer]

I dunnu if is the technique or here where should I write this, but:

1. Zenistar, now it cannot be used for fun times making a carpet of knockdown and laugh at enemies as the disk lasts only 10 seconds? NANIIII? Please revert it back to 30 seconds or atleast increase it more :V! Nor we are able to see it's full stats.

2.Blood rush, it is kinda useless, halfing its buff is not good, even though is easy to get it to some point decent... But not much fun moding if so. 

3. Bullet Dance, before the update, the heavy atack with bullet dance meant two shots, not one. Please fix this back to how it was. 

4.Block modes, the Focused Defense, dunnu if there are other range block mods, are not functioning correctly, as they increase "parry"angle, not "block"angle. Also, manual blocking does not work. It still switches to primary/secondary when you want to manually block. I suggest separating aim and block as key binds.

5. Melee Prowess, I belive you said it should be buffed, but still isn't... I felt like mentioning it as I feel sorry for that mod.

6.We need more particle effects for swings and blood when we slice them up! 😄 ~Steve please handle this.

Edited November 1, 2019 by DanteVonLucifer
Addition

[Torunuil]

While this opinion appears to be statistically unpopular among the forum warriors, I think that this update is a very good step in the right direction.

Since the update, I've dedicated much of my playtime to creating spreadsheets and conducing Simulacrum tests to see if the "OMG MY XYZ GOT NERFED" was really an accurate representation of reality. In the desire to remain succinct, I have concluded the following: 1) as a whole, melee damage and range appears to have gone up as a result of the changes in the majority of cases, even in that of the polearm tests I accomplished.

However, 2) most of the scaling is done through the base damage of heavy attacks, and with Amalgam Organ Shatter and Killing Blow, heavy attacks with extreme base damage are now easily achievable and also spammable on most melees. In extreme outlier cases, heavy attacks that deal eye-boggling numbers occur multiple times a second with little to no prepping the mobs.

3) With twice the base damage in many cases, the average performance of builds that run CO has also gone up, even without running armor strip as appropriate, making it such that mobs with nearly 100% armor DR are two-shottable with around three status (viral, electric, radiation is what I used for that sim), which appears on my spreadsheets and in reality as greatly overtuned. In one extreme case, I found that the DPS difference between a custom zaw with an average riven last patch now does 15.3x the DPS with heavy attacks as opposed to light attacks with one crit tier and zero status applications for the CO that it runs (essentially running it at 7 mods but yellow crit).

Therefore, while 4) I have found that the numbers for the previous best abuse cases (CO + Blood Rush with Base Damage/High Base Crit Chance/One Crit Multiplier mod) are numerically similar to the ones this patch, 5) heavy attacks vastly exceed those abuse case numbers AND are even easier to achieve at a higher level of play. In practice, I found it very obvious that melee damage in both low levels and in endless has gone up, giving at least me proof that the changes on paper are similar to the ones in practice.

6) I originally wasn't going to include this, but there are a few bugs with mods that when fixed will make people feel better about this patch. I recall my blood rush tests acting buggy, as if it only scaled off of base crit, however, I'm not sure if I misinterpreted the test or whether it was one of those simulacrum only bugs (like the Naramon combo perk not functioning properly).

I'd be interested to discuss my formulas/strategies with those interested in having a discussion and who do not lead with "you're an idiot; my stuff is nerfed into the ground," so send me a DM if you are interested and meet that criteria ;)

I was not expecting to be impressed with the results I've seen this patch, and while there are a small number of under the hood changes I personally would make to make the system feel smoother, it does appear that this is a step in the game health direction. So, thanks to all those who put in hard work to make this happen, and I as a relatively happy player will enjoy exploring the Old Blood as these changes evolve.

[-SW-PaStei]

This system is too much complicated. I Hope we will get back to old one soon.

[Miyabi-sama]

Stats for older weapons are cool. Dakra and Fang primes are live again.

Scaling is wrecked hard, extremely difficult to slash the whole crowd of high-level enemies. Goal achieved, works as intended. No sarcasm.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Miyabi-sama

[PeterKalogerakis]

8 hours ago, Dragazer said:

No you're wrong: 

Plus my gram would not be red criting if it was just 580% btw,

32%*5.8= 185.6% crit chance which only allows for orange crits

 

Its because the maths from the earlier post was slightly incorrect it should be 0.6*12*32% which would be 230. (not including any mods like True steel etc)

[zendian]

it's strange heavy attack would cast  a lot of combo but some heavy attack anime make it hard to chase and exactly hit target.
Nikana heavy attack has bad anime to aim to target, you could try it at disruption mission,my suggest is heavy attack could hold on and release it,and remake heavy attack anime maybe.

[Bratty_Child]

Weeping wound isn't working properly and it would kill status chance instead.

[iSolement]

The calculation mechanism of blood rush makes all critical chance extremely useless.

[Metsudo]

Please consider adding back the forced status procs into melee combos. As an example, the forced slashes of defiled snapdragon being removed has pretty much blasted out the heart of the likes of the mios, which could only really be even close to competative due to the forced slashes. Also the combos that included finisher setups should also still be there in my opinion, exaple being the sparring stance that had a finisher that could be done with holding the melee button, as this gives stances some much needed variety/utility.

Glaives and gunswords have also lost their quick throw ability which sucks, though I think the reason for them being removed was likely the redeemer primes high damage. Removing them due to a single weapon being a bit OP is the wrong way to try fixing the problem.

[Lightbringer]

Zenistar Feedback:

Overall I understand the direction you were going for with the changes to the disc duration, but it feels incomplete the way it is currently and could use some usability improvements. The biggest issue currently is that you still cannot deploy a new disc while one is active. A heavy attack while there is an active disc will drain your combo meter and recall the disc, meaning you have to either wait until the disc duration ends naturally or spend extra time building combo in order to properly redeploy.

If you want to encourage actual use of the weapon as a melee weapon, this is a bad way to go, as it actively discourages the player from performing any heavy attacks for up to 120 seconds at a time. To encourage engagement with the heavy attack system, I would propose either an immediate recall + redeploy on every heavy attack or innate heavy attack efficiency while there is an active disc. Either would do wonders for the feel of using the weapon given the changes to the base disc duration and its interaction with the new combo system.

I would also like to see the disc scale off of Heavy Attack Damage (eg Killing Blow) in addition to Base Damage (eg Pressure Point) mods and scale damage in addition to duration w/ Combo Count when deployed, given it's tied to that system. I know that would be quite a buff to the weapon, but I feel it's deserved given the extra effort needed for upkeep on it now.

Less likely, but it would also be nice to see the minimum duration upped to, say, 15s or so, but have a cap on the maximum around 90s to counterbalance that, and also to further incentivize players to more regularly engage with the melee system, which seems to be what you're trying to accomplish with the weapon. This would give max duration at a 6x combo, but if you added damage scaling w/ increased combo too, there would still be reason to push it up to 12x before throwing one out.

Hopeful for the upcoming changes and tweaks!

[Huanthus]

The damage numbers on  the Zenistar's Disk are too low and is not shown in the  mod UI besides, the range is misleading on the disk because even if the energy emitted from the disk reachs a target the actual damage range on the disk is quite low, can't really complain on the addition to a relation to combo multiplier  and  the duration of the disk because its an set and forget tool but still i would expect that if i work  to build up a combo multipier the damage  would increase too and it does not, 0x combo mult damage = 15x combo mult damage on disk

 

[Lord_Drod]

Whip range is too large.  Continue nerfing until it just like spins around our hand, but give it a 10,000% crit chance...so we just kinda spin it around 6 inches from our hand and like chest bump and explode guys.  Rename scoliac to Shoelace Vandal.

[Pitvh]

thanks DE for ruin the melee for long runs, is like you make a big effort to make this game more unplayable for old players. I get you nerf the range, maiming and condition, but crit scale and damage scale overall for endurance runs? dont need the legendary core and 3 lousy formas, give me back the old melee

[jofipa]

On 2019-10-31 at 9:54 PM, UuvoPlajaa said:

Gladiator mod set effect doesn't affect Exalted weapons anymore 😞

it does but now you get only 20% BASE crit chance per combo counter level wich is not enough to get you into a new level of crit depending on how you built your weapon

[kevoisvevo]

thanks i hate your new melee system and the stat changes you did. you just lost a customer today. revert these crap changes and bring back melee 2.0 or else i don't plan on every returning to your game

[jofipa]

It feels great to play with heavy weapons and hammers but everything else is super wierd

Range is wierd: Most weapons seems to have a similar range (about 2 meters) wich makes weapons like daggers for example be as tall/wide as a polearm with Primed Reach equiped. I like how it was changed from a % to meters but that just makes mods like Primed Reach mandatory in any build. Fix? Make gauntlet and daggers like weapons on the 1 meter range and polearms/staffs at a 5 meter range. 
Condition Overload and Blood rush is wierd: I get that CO was a trubblemaker in the past, limits design space but honestly the damage output it gives now is just not worth the mod space, I would preffer the one limited to 3 status effects you guys had in mind over what we got. And the cool thing about blood rush was getting consistent red crits, previously at 2.5x combo you would start to see red crits wich it may be a little to strong But now with a high crit weapon at 12X combo you can barely crit red. Wich brings me to another thing
WUKONG IS COMPLETLY DESTROYED: you finaly buffed the guy into playability just to nerf the S#&$ out of him on this update. ALL i said above is now working against wukong, the major lost was the range: having a big staff is wukongs thing, honestly it feels like Pre-Buff levels of range. CO also got axed so his staff damage fell off and you cant even crit consisntently with the gladiator mod set anymore. So yeah rip wukong again. 

Gun Blade Stances are wierd: Bullet dance is basicaly unplayable, you cant shoot consistently without having to do a foward slash or to completly stop moving wich in this game standing still WILL KILL YOU. + Her foward combo is the one where you start rolling backwards like What? From what i got you guys just changed combo order so please revert this change

Heavy attacks feel wierd: Losing combo counter to do a slow cluncky heavy attack is wierd honestly. i know you guys are working on the rage meter but this just feels pretty bad to play with, i mean Glaves feel ok to play, i miss holding E to toss the glave/Wolf sledge but i guess the heavy attack button can be rebind so whatever.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by jofipa

[(PSN)Crixus044]

DE,

I am a long time player and was an advocate of the game. I have been offline on my main for a while, killing to play again, because there's one thing this game had that no other doesn't. This game had some of the most interesting and diverse mechanics. The level of detail and optimization was splendid for a mathematical guy like myself. I bought multiple prime accesses to keep up when my schedule couldn't, and there's one thing keeping me from buying more, being punished for my innovation and creativity. Nerfing stuff isn't helping, but it's bearable and necessary most of the time. But unbalancing everything so radically without even an opinion from your own Design Council is just more doubt for me.

It is breaking my heart seeing some of the most unique mechanics in the game being taken away. These mechanics are what made this game unique and not another simple hybrid game. I'll outline the signs of this direction I've seen.

Pure elemental weapons may seem off to you, but they're some of the most unique weapons in the game. Twin basolk and ninkondi were the last (I think). They don't quite have the ips diversity that your build goes for, but they are unique. Main reason? Status rates. Getting pure gas or radiation on twin basolk was a really cool feature. It made building so fun and gameplay even better. I am not a fan of everything becoming "ips+elemental", because I could just get a pure ips weapon and put the elemental mods on. It is ruining the diversity of weapons.

I am on board with CO changes, but I am not a fan of 

On 2019-10-31 at 2:12 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

final damage, which, as you know from previous changes, we have been trying to move away from

Differentiation of damage buffs is what makes the game so interesting. Condition overload IMO, would've been better off as a additively stacking final damage buff (1 + .6 × # of status effects). Even if you don't believe that for Condition overload, at least consider this for anything else you've had in mind. Making all buffs work on base damage is boring and cripples creativity and severely increases the competition for which frame to use.

You may think "oh that's what we want, diversity". Competition is not diversity. Diversity would be every damage buff being the same amount, same aspects, same everything. How exciting is that? Competition is temporary. Once the strongest is sorted out, the rest will be made useless. This is why it's important for everyone to have their own unique aspect, so that they're not rendered useless or obsolete.

I urge you to focus on the enemies of the game vs us as players, because this "player innovation vs developers" situation isn't making for good gameplay. Please DE, stop punishing me for being creative and innovative.

Edited November 2, 2019 by (PS4)Crixus044

[ZarakkiZenn]

Positives: base crit matters, combos easier to pull off, swapping is fluid.

Negatives: ... where to start?

The meta will condense around the Orthos Prime and Galatine/Gram Prime, as it stands now.

The biggest issue I see is the fake handicap: you're not dealing any damage whatsoever until the enemy becomes staggered. First combo does nothing but staggers at the end, damage increases noticeably. The second combo knocks them down, then forced finisher. Feels bad. Can't we kill Maiming Strike without killing melee?

Just removing the damage multiplier from the combo counter means melee will cap out. This is a prime example of a patch that turned up (or down) too many notches: damage stacking, condition overload, blood rush, fake handicap.

EDIT:

Melee, aside from the aformentioned weapons, is absolutely not viable past level 60-70. I tested level 100 and 140. The only weapons that performed half decently were the ones I mentioned. I have the same gripe with nullifier bubbles and arbitration drones: in reality they don't up difficulty, only restrict player choice. In a game that is all about collecting and maxing out your arsenal, finding and playing with what you enjoy, restricting viability to a handful of weapons is definitely not a good idea.

Edited November 2, 2019 by ZarakkiZenn
Forgot non-viability

[-Kritias-]

1 hour ago, jofipa said:

WUKONG IS COMPLETLY DESTROYED: you finaly buffed the guy into playability just to nerf the S#&$ out of him on this update. ALL i said above is now working against wukong, the major lost was the range: having a big staff is wukongs thing, honestly it feels like Pre-Buff levels of range. CO also got axed so his staff damage fell off and you cant even crit consisntently with the gladiator mod set anymore. So yeah rip wukong again.

The Gladiator Set is buggy man. Wait till the crit chance is working again as intended

[Arkandae]

il y a une heure, ZarakkiZenn a dit :

The meta will condense around the Orthos Prime and Galatine/Gram Prime,

There are other weapons+stances that works well above lvl 100. Gram/galatine are usable with heavy attack spam with killing blow and amalgam organ shatter, otherwise the damage is terrible (might be a bug).

[SteveCutler]

1 hour ago, ZarakkiZenn said:

Melee, aside from the aformentioned weapons, is absolutely not viable past level 60-70.

I can shred lv165 Corrupted Bombards in seconds with a polearm...

[Violet_Xe]

   This part of my post will be dedicated to heavy attacks, they seem VERY lack luster and there aren't many mods supporting them. Much of the community pretty much agrees they aren't worth using and you should keep your blood rush stacks. My feedback will be created from the Nami Skyla Prime for anyone who is curious which seems to be among the best dual swords within 3.0, again just so people know. Yes I do have a riven. This will be running builds with maxed out effects leaning towards this new heavy attack and lift mechanic. The enemies i'm testing against will be LvL 130 heavy gunners, so slightly above average current "endgame" enemies.
   This should will fit in both technique and stats areas, but I'm putting it here because the stats will be a larger portion of the post.

1. The Naramon skill that grants heavy attack efficiency doesn't work at all. This is a bug and should be fixed because this is sort of the crutch that most heavy attack builds will be from from. If this doesn't work then it's completely out of the question because reflex coil just simply isn't worth it. With 60% efficency I should have been saving 60% of my combo but I never could actually get this to work.
2. Heavy Attacks will lift enemies, this just... doesn't fit. I get that the idea is to juggle enemies but they float away from you, perhaps shortly after the heavy attack your weapon has a slight pull to it's melee attacks dragging enemies slightly back to you?
3. Heavy Attacks should by default have a larger range then normal attacks. I'm talking a 5 to 6m increase with a void bomb visual effect or something. We are expending alot of combo points for this and builds being focused around this should be rewarded for spending these. As it currently stands the heavy attacks can only kill one or two enemies if you're lucky and we almost never have a need for that but if we have a large mob of enemies we can expend that combo to wipe them out.
4. People are complaining about the time of heavy attacks, honestly I don't see the issue. If you do decide to mod for this damage type chances are you'll be running killing blow and amalgam organ shatter. These two combined make heavy attacks almost instant. But I would appreciate it if a status mod had this effect too because this rework favors critical over status.
   1. If you haven't tried the twin basalk with both amalgam organ shatter and killing blow I'd suggest giving it a shot. It's REALLY fun now and you can move around the map by teleporting. It's even better on frames like valkyr who boost melee speed. Teleporting kitty is so much fun.
5. We instantly expend almost all of out points and I'd like to suggest that for maybe 5s we keep this damage? Maybe attaching this to a mod or making a new mod to allow our damage to linger? We are meant to juggle our enemies but right as we're about to juggle the enemy, we lose all our stored damage potential. We have no time to capitalize on the enemies vulnerable state which is what the fighting game is all about.
   1. This could actually be corrected if there were more mods like enduring affliction which grants 100% status chance to lifted enemies. This is a great idea and would allow us to capitalize on enemies. The heavy attack slam builds would benefit more from these mods then other builds. I'd like more mods to be delivered with that short time we can keep our stored combo count.
6. Seismic Slam feels somewhat underwhelming as a mod and now that it's a key mod for heavy slam builds, it needs to be better. I would suggest adding a combo counter scaling damage with this and also increasing slam radius extending it's use past just the arca titron and the mod might actually be taken seriously.
7. Exilus melee mods would have been GREATLY appreciated. Mods like dispatch overdrive would have been great additions for this slot encouraging players further to actually use heavy attacks.
8. Unlike critical and status the heavy hit, lift status, and slam attacks are completely absent from arcanes putting them at a severe disadvantage. I was expecting a few new arcanes to make their way into the game but surprisingly not. Similarly the damage types have no set mods to back them up. The point of having set effects tied to mods is to have players thinking about them in combat as semi viable, but with no set mod helping lift, slam, and heavy attacks nobody ever thinks of them.
   1. Note I'm not taking into account zaws arcanes specificly because they are for zaws only and are event arcanes which I don't have. I can't do testing so I won't comment but I assume they don't involve anything substantial.
9. Mods such as Killing Blow need to have a higher heavy attack damage boost. 120% is nowhere close enough to justify having this mod in place, even if it does increase charge attack speed. I did say the time was fine, but the damage of this mod is lacking. Perhaps 120% heavy attack damage per combo counter spent would be better because this would mean it scales with your damage. Maybe if this isn't enough a multiplicative effect would be nice.
10. Life Strike should realistically be changed slightly. Unlike healing return, life strike will restore life over a duration of time. This makes it a regeneration and more relevant, a trade off as it isn't instant healing but it's a safety measure players can take. The amount of health we heal if we spend all that massive combo count, we need to feel this mod have a greater effect. Before it was a nice channeling quick pick up on health, but combo is expensive unlike energy and how we heal is by spending a decent portion if not all of our combo count.
11. Enduring Affliction, I really like the new twist to this mod and how it was adapted, BUT it needs to work with the combo counter spent.
12. Enduring Strike is weird because I wanted to say this should be in a melee exilus slkot, if we got one, but I'm not going to. This mod is really underpowered and to be frank relentless combination is a far better charger. it doesn't require you to spend combo counter to build it up and it grants 100% chance. Enduring strike should be granting 200% maybe 300% on lifted enemies. You're spending combo points to even do this so this acts as a way to refund those points.
    1. yes I'm aware some stances actually have lifts in their combos anyways but that would only further add to this mods viability no?

   Now i'm going to skip stances because... well I'm not exactly the best with remembering stance numbers and multipliers and such. I'll let brozime handle that. This portion of the post will be related to the changes to the other mods. You know what mods I'm talking about.

1. Blood Rush, this is not dead, ignore everyone that says so. The reason for that is because you scale your multiplier so fast the reduction to blood rush means nothing. Blood Rush is still viable for lots of weapons. The only downside I see in this is heavy weapons cannot keep up with quick melee weapons due to the combo counter. 
2. Drifting Contact and Body Count. These mods have really lost their value for me, this is my personal preference and me thinking that is a very good sign. I know some players still value the mod so good on you for making this not feel required for combo counter builds. yes these mods were changed, just indirectly becuase of the changes to the combo counter.
   1. if anyone is wondering why I don't like combo duration anymore, you scale so fast with some weapons that it simply doesn't matter anymore. I can get back to 12X with many of my weapons in udner 12 seconds and that's fine by me. It no longer feels needed to get the results I want.
3. Condition Overload... Well this died. I originally loved the idea of a 3 status cap... then I looked at h3dshot and he brought up a phenomenal point. The cap has killed status type weapons and destroys a variety of builds that required it to have over 3 status types. The gazal machete combo being the best example as you pretty much destroyed DK's machete as well as status overload builds. Status as a viable endgame build is gone and this needs to be fixed by either returning the mod to the way it was before with multiplicative damage. maybe nerf the damage a bit but it being multiplicative was the kingpin for status being viable. A
4. Range mods. These mods got hit hard and I'm fine with that but I've got an issue. Spring is fine, maybe add .5 or .6 range but overall it's great. Reach however, this is a critical mod for new players. 1.1 range is nothing, this should at worst be 1.5 at best be 2.2m. Primed Reach is somewhat down for what it costs. This massive amount of endo, ducats, and credits that we dump into the mod for only 3m? 4m should be the target here which would further increase the viability of smaller weapons. 
   1. Just to show my personal stance on the matter I don't actually like reach mods. I think they're a waste for my playstyle as I don't care about getting close to my enemies. But I did play around with it and I found that shorter ranged weapons will become a more preferred meta for longer runs due to how fast they rack up combo and much they benefit from reach mods.
   2. Motus Impact. This mod really needs to be buffed. This is an ARIEL attack which takes longer to perform and has a requirement to activate it. Average gameplay won't see it used often unless this mod is good enough to actually be useful to it's user. 3.5-5m is needed here. It's because it's conditional that it should be better than the primed reach mod.
5. Exilus Mods we need these on melee weapons because they would benefit us on all levels. We only have so many mod slots and we can't make use of everything. I haven't seen anyone use parry since... ever. yet it's potential is so great because it allows any warframe to enter a finisher attack and use finisher arcanes. I get it, melee exilus would be drawing a fine line between what is powerful and what isn't, more so then the guns. But we will never use some of these mods with only 8 mod slots to use.
   1. Focused Defense. This mod really changed and could be seem if DE decided to make this an exilus mod. Weapons like the daggers might be able to block something. it is worth noting however that the block radius is a 3d cone. This means you can actually aim upwards and block with some weapons to an extent. This would mean if you run focused defense this would be a strong mobility and defensive increase.
   2. Reflex Guard. Overall a great change but this needs to be made into an exilus if it's ever to be noticed. Either that or make tons of new defensive mods.
6. Amalgam Javlok Magazine Warp. This did not go unnoticed by me DE. This mod had a great effect but I'm assuming you changed this to keep shields from granting both immunity and damage. Well that's kind of sad because this mod used to have one of the most unique ways of dealing damage reflecting bullets back at enemies. Saryn made GREAT use of this and i'm disappointed to see this go.
7. Reflection. LOL this thing is still channeling. Seems DE forgot something.

   Now I want to talk about the Zenistar... This has a VERY different playstyle now. I'm sort of impartial because I never really cared for it. it doesn't proc my resonance all too often so it meant almost nothing to me as a banshee player. The new playstyle does not let you camp and makes you use the Zenistar as a weapon, and that's because the heavy attacks produce a zenistar disk. There is a very good reason for this and I believe this is what DE origonally wanted players to do. Instead of it being a glorified brief case for the disk, they want it to be used as a wepaon so use your heavy attacks on enemies while using the zenistar. make the most of the attacks. This wouldn't be an issue if naramon worked the way it did and condition overload was actually good. 
   I suggest treating the Zenistar as a legitimate weapon now. Test out this build. Primed Reach, Primed Fury, Primed Pressure Point, Condition Overload, Gladiator Might, and Amalgam Organ Shatter. For elemental I put Primed Fever Strike and Shocking Touch. Reach is still something you want because it helps rack up a high combo counter to increase damage while the gladiator might is a mini blood rush but adds to crit damage. Heavy attack enemies whenever you have the option because amalgam organ shatter will increase that charge attack speed somewhat.
   This being said the zenistar REALLY needs CO back to it's original state and/or the disk to remain out for 15s. if none of these requirements are met, then the base stats of the zenistar should be increased somewhat because it relied on the disk to make up for it's below average damage in the heavy weapon category.

   Now when it comes to Endurance Content, we have somewhat of an issue. Many of our buffs have become short term in benefits. I haven't tested many weapons past LvL 130 corrupted but for now I'm content with what we've been given. For the better or worse, this is technically new content and I'll need to check over the weapons for awhile before I can come to a final conclusion if the changes are good or bad.

   Also anyone who says that these changes are terrible right now, just stop. You're jumping the gun and acting immature because you don't know what you're talking about because not even many of the content creators know what's good and what's bad yet. They play usually more than most of us and it's their job. Not only that but DE is not done adding stuff yet because this is Phase 2 and it only just launched. Things need to be ironed out so be patient and wait.

[-S-O--Sephiroth-Crescent]

Condition overload has the same problem as the old one but worse.. infinite scaling while doing less dmg. should have kept old mechanic with stacking with itself and end dmg BUT made it a max of 3 stacks with 120% each.. that way its not as hard to get (makes it more accessable) and doesnt break the game as hard as old one.

[Xardis]

Where to begin?

Condition Overload: makes pure status weapons not worth it at all. Damage bonus competes with pressure mods AND rivens, effectively nerfing rivens and those mods by proxy.  Leave it at 120%, cap it at 3 procs, make it a separate damage multiplier and revert it to multiply by itself, or better, change the description to: for up to 3 procs on enemy, your total damage to him is multipled times 2.2, coz thats what it is, a capped argument, exponential function.

or a better idea, slightly rework the mod, make it 100% damage per proc on enemy, its still a separate selfadditive buff, but for each proc on enemy you have 10% additive chance to deal a random proc (proc effect is multiplied by modded status chance, the chance to multiply procs is not affected by any other mods).

Blood Rush: makes every mod with +crit chance effect useless. Previously you had a reason to have both on, tho the effect was a little bit too scaled up. The fact that its capped it the most damaging tho.

Heavy attacks: who had the idea to make those cost all combo? Make it cost 3 combo multiplier levels and make mods that add cost and power and the reverse.

Combo counter itself: it shouldnt have ever been capped, what should have changed looks like this: more levels on the same curve with the effect more spread out, maybe the curve should have been scaled down a bit.

What I would have done with all of this:

Combo counter: each level costs takes 10 more hits to get to than the previous one and 1st (combo mult x2) takes 10 hits to get , this puts mult levels of combo hits on a very logarithmic like curve. As in, the steps are not exponentialy more expensive but the ratio of steps to their cost stays on the log/exp curve depending on how you plot it. Heavy attack damage should be directly multipled by combo multiplier and cost a set ammount of combo multiplier levels, I would say 3, with mods that can bring it down to 2 and 1 and multiplying the total heavy attack damage by 0.8 and 0.5 each, this can also go up to 4 and 5 with damage being multiplied by 1.33 and 1.66 each. On top of that, all heavy attacks on all stances should have a high and wide range.

Blood Rush: make it add ~2-3% crit chance per rank scaled from the final modded crit chance. Gladiator set bonus should add a flat +5% multiplier to gained combo from hits like some exodias do. This way it should be a slow, steady scaling that would IMHO be far slower than old BR but would still be worth using, and most importantly, using CC and CD mods alongside BR.

Previously I had a problem with fitting all the mods I wanted to use to optimize my weapon for more damage, now I have a problem like this: what mod should I put in for my weapon to be even worth using beyond sortie levels.

Two things that I also missed, riven changes and combo duration. Ill start with combo duration:

What is the point of combo being a resource if without Naramon, its all gone if you dont use melee constantly? Remove the passive, make it decay at the speed of 1/s after initial 5s with it resetting the timer every time it drops a combo multiplier. Effect that adds duration would just make the decay rate slower and this would be good. Imagine if all the time there was a 5/s energy drain in normal gameplay. Warframe would have been dead for years.

Rivens, with the changes that we got, and hopefuly, there will be more changes and some rollbacks of some sort, rivens have different effect and different power, yet we go nothing, all the kuva/plat invested into them to make them work in old system is gone, no compensation, nothing. I would like to see at least a 10k kuva compensation per melee riven so people can at least try to adapt theri rivens to the new system (tho I hope this current state wont last for long) without having to grind even more since all the grind they did in the past is totaly wasted.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Xardis