(PC) Melee Phase 2: STATS Feedback

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

9 minutes ago, RWBY-WhiteRose said:

Why are status melees so poopy now?

I am not calling for a crit nerf. If anything blood rush is in a good spot right now, it isn’t overpowered or anything. 
But back then status weapons were good mainly because of how good condition overload was. Now that that’s gone, they’re just sort of lying in the gutter in the earlier stages compared to crit weapons which can still deal with higher levels more easily now because their method of damage boosting works much more consistently than status weapons’.

This means that the only good melee build now consists of a hybrid. Pure crit is very eh, status even more so. Together they just manage to keep a semblance of being able to keep up with guns. 
 
On top of that because of how they’re calculated now, both mods have rendered their base counterparts (True steel and pressure point) useless once you’ve gotten them. There isn’t really a point anymore.

I would make blood rush and condition overload a separate layer of multipliers again, toning the values down ever so slightly to match. That should fix a lot of concerns.

Also why did the Paracesis of all things get nerfed

 

6 minutes ago, RWBY-WhiteRose said:

Furthermore all exalted melees, which never got a Damage balance pass to keep up with the new melees, just don’t work anymore; they’re just low tier weapons, hysteria and desert wind in particular. Would like those to get improved.

“Why are status melees so poopy now?” Can the phrase “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth” be applied here? People assessed the value of Condition Overload and supported for a nerf, this is the nerf we got, and now status melee is, well, “poopy.” Who knew changing its algorithm to being additive akin to Primed/Pressure Point would create this type of dissonance?

With regards to Blood Rush and the Gladiator mods set, statistically the present multiplier feels... “proper.” It just lacks having crit chance mods applying a value before the algorithm to make it scale accordingly with crit chance mods. That needs to be changed because, as you said, their non-application to Blood Rush or Gladiator makes them useless to have in a build.

Also, how these mods work at present incentivizes what types of weapons they are more catered to. That further narrows down the meta to a single build toward weapons that are more specialized to base crit stats. I doubt anyone wanted to have that particular direction in this game when Warframe is celebrated to have a wide assortment of build diversity and creativity, and the mods that are affected in this patch for melee (Blood Rush, Condition Overload, Life Strike, maybe/not Maiming Strike) took a hard-fisted nerf to invalidate any unique builds and toned it down to something more basic.

If we are to bring back certain builds back to light, such as status melee builds, the best approach is to go back to whatever mods were affected and reinvent their identity. Condition Overload needs another hard look over especially, more than likely a revert back to its original algorithm with a lower melee multiplier than +60% melee multiplier. Blood Rush and Gladiator mods applying modded crit chance into their algorithm should be considered. Heavy Attacks with how they consume combo counter, their practical utility in-game as a massive attack, their animation speeds - the very concept of this feature needs a revisit to make players that used Life Strike as their HP-replenish mod more welcoming than ever. No solid comments regarding Maiming Strike, tbqh.

To end this comment/reply, how we should communicate feedback back to DE is that we shouldn’t feel gimped for using or crafting certain builds that we want to create and then homogenize them into a single build for all melee (which is the state of melee right now, unfortunately). That’s why the melee mods that were affected in this patch needs to feel “unique” and not “standardized.” Because of how Condition Overload was affected, this is why status melee is in such a poor state now. Because of how Blood Rush/Gladiator mods are now, this is why it’s more incentivized toward base crit melee instead of melee influenced by modded crit chance. Why use Life Strike or even Heavy Attacks in general when it’s more practical to spam melee more than ever than be stuck on an animation lock that consumes your entire combo counter?

These are the important concepts that I urge DE and the majority of players consider when we provide feedback regarding these melee changes. Historically with DE and Warframe, nerfs are very heavy-handed. However, there is always the possibility for change with Warframe and its direction that can and should result in something more positive. 

Please read and look over your feedback with more scrutiny over how it is affecting the game and its playerbase, DE.

[Seatrou]

Melee is not worth to use anymore.

[Arn_Magnusson1]

Please make blood rush as good as it was before i dont like it and then you just are buffing condition overlaod. But its still a good update it is just my and one of my friend personal opinion hope you guys will revert blood rush 🙂 i know i have posted this one before but know i posted it in here instead but still a great update

[Mycelia]

There are a lot of stats shown for melee weapons now. I think it would be a good idea to separate them into sections to make them less overwhelming for new players and easier to digest for players who know what they're looking at.

[Tekwolf]

 I like the heavy attack so far, at least with Hirudo. it is fun. Although, I'm not sure why it needed it's own key. I would like to suggest having the option for either the old 'hold down the key' or the independent key.

 However, I am not very pleased with the Zenistar nerf; eight seconds is far to low in time. I spend all of my time trying to keep the disc out on solo infested excavation missions, which is what I used this weapon for. As a result, it is no longer fun to play with. I will either be forced to use a Warframe that I don't like or play with a group, which I don't always like to do. I prefer to take my time and leave when I want to. I play these for fun, but this nerf makes the weapon almost entirely useless; it has become just another bashing weapon with no real utility anymore. I think an increase it to 15-20 seconds seems more fair.

 Another compromise might be to have an Excilus slot for this weapon with an extended time mod for the special ability.

[Hexsixth]

2 minutes ago, Tekwolf said:

 However, I am not very pleased with the Zenistar nerf; eight seconds is far to low in time. I spend all of my time trying to keep the disc out on solo infested excavation missions, which is what I used this weapon for. As a result, it is no longer fun to play with. I will either be forced to use a Warframe that I don't like or play with a group, which I don't always like to do. I prefer to take my time and leave when I want to. I play these for fun, but this nerf makes the weapon almost entirely useless; it has become just another bashing weapon with no real utility anymore. I think an increase it to 15-20 seconds seems more fair.

Zenistar's disc timer is now tied to combo counter, so at base it is 10 seconds, but at 12X combo, it's 120 seconds. 

However, the damage from the disc and even the effectiveness of the status procs feels much weaker, now.

[SteveCutler]

Compared to before the update, melee feels monstrously overpowered now to me. Even very high level enemies die super fast to melee.

[Przemo8670]

Bring back the old Blood Rush and Reach mods please

[Marinara19]

Hey DE, can you put the broken glass animation back on Volnus?

[zendian]

it's strange heavy attack would cast  a lot of combo but some heavy attack anime make it hard to chase and exactly hit target.
Nikana heavy attack has bad anime to aim to target, you could try it at disruption mission,my suggest is heavy attack could hold on and release it,and remake heavy attack anime maybe.

In melee 2.0 I'm a rare stance player, my dragon nikana killed almost 428000 enemy 
I wound't judge new stance system good or bad but melee change didn't become a funny point in game
it's same point at new blood rush(BS) and OD — it didn't reward a player's creative. Actually the straight reward is a powerful number for attack,but i guess you want player to get it more wise way.

let's talk about "the wise way" ,Blood rush benefit from combo and weapon quality ,OD from weapon exchange. What would new melee system supple to player creative? 
it's easy to use stance now but enemy still immortal when Arbitration shield drone come and some enemy didn't effect by OD,could new melee system handle it even in a wise way?

Actually,it's didn't make it now. High armor enemy still there and finisher was gone beside digger stance ,even stagger is no more work at stance now.


this video record Wise Razer stance from stance change before,it's about 4 mine

New stance use more button to control,but tatsu stance stuck then before.

there are so many detail need to fix i have to said 

[Marinara19]

On 2019-11-01 at 12:13 AM, BlindStalker said:

fake news

zenistar disc scales off combo meter/last longer than before! Play first >> cry later.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Marinara19

[Carnage2K4]

Inner might broken in simulacrum

Edited November 4, 2019 by Carnage2K4

[kuryux]

Came here just to say melee feels great. Overall the changes were great. Usually the 5% of the ppl that didnt like the changes cause they have to adapt, come here to complain and the 95% that enjoyed dont come here at all, so it might give a wrong impression.

The range balance feels great for example. Now weapons with small range can be useful again and thats a LOT of weapons, while those with good range are still great

The new combo multiplier feels great too. At first it might seem like a nerf to blood rush and stuff, but b4  we used to get stuck at 2.5x 3x for hundreds of hits and now u can go past 12x which feels a lot more exciting.

The list goes on on. All great stuff, well thought, feels great once u get used and stuff

[krimit]

please make the zenistar disk a flat 45 seconds again de! having it change is frustrating please take another look at the disk! 

[Dragon-V0942]

Stance combos
New Melee stance combos feel solid on most of the weapons I've tried so far, definitely no complaints with them.

Heavy attack
I would like the option to be able to trigger heavy attacks with M1 when melee is fully equipped.  Because of how the binding System Works, I can't bind heavy attacks to M1 without removing my ability to shoot.

Enemy stasis
At first, I found it weird but I completely agree and like the idea of this.
Normally ragdolling an enemy (although fun) increases the time to kill and wastes time in high ranking missions such as sanctuary onslaught.  This feature is very much appreciated.

Stealth/perry finishers.
I can understand the intention with changing it to the use key for stealth kills, as it allows the player to decide with going through the animation or quickly take them down but potentially alert the others if the melee does not one-shot.  However when it comes to combat with frames like Excalibur, I find myself forgetting to hold down the X key to finish off the heavy target and end up having to cast my ability again and hoping to remember to hold the use key this time as I'm too used a just outright attacking to automatically engage it.

I would suggest simply adding in a "gameplay" option within that tab, something along the lines of "Stealth/perry staggered enemies on melee attacks"

Blocking
I now find myself blocking more often now, especially when I come across heavy hitters like the stalker, finally standing my ground feels more bad-ass now because of that.  However I still feel a bit disadvantage at times when I automatically block when not equipping the melee, but forgetting to hold the block button when I fully equipped it.  Maybe I'll get used to it, but at the moment fully equipping the melee actually seems like a bit of a disadvantage.  But switching M1 to heavy attacks would justify it.  Have to manually block now, but you can perform heavy attacks more easily now with your right hand instead of your left.

Mercys
I definitely love what you've done here.  A little buggy when you're not the host but I'm sure those will be ironed out soon.  My only problem right now is that you once again need to use the use button to perform them, and on regular enemies that are not Thralls die far too quickly even by the player who knocks them into that state.  A simple tweak for the regular enemies that I would suggest would be to make them stay alive but staggered for 3-5 seconds if their health hits rock bottom while they are vulnerable.  When time expires, they die, or become susceptible to dying if their health wasn't at rock bottom.

Hysterical Assault
I gave this Valkyr A-mod a try with the new melee system and it honestly works perfectly.
Admittedly I haven't used it much until now but there is one annoyance with the mod and one little lacking thing that makes it a little disappointing.

1.  The FOV sometimes forgets to switch all the way back and ends up giving me... well.. Fallout vision (sorry for the joke) so maybe a failsafe of some sort to make sure that the field of view properly resets, or perhaps just removing that effect entirely.
2. The unique and satisfying Valkyr war cry I hear when using this mod is really exhilarating, however it's a shame that no one else can hear it.  It would be nice if that were to be fixed.

Finisher animations for both front and back
It was really great when we finally got the ability to stealth kill certain enemies like MOAs when the animations were finally made, but not all weapons have this luxury.  Worse still, you can't finish any of these non-humanoid enemies from the front.  The animations we've seen coming out show that you have all really improved over the years... but it would be such a quality of life improvement if we can finally at last have finisher animations for both back and front for all weapons at last, even recycling and slightly tweaking an existing animation would be perfectly fine, just so long as we have the ability to do a finisher animation from both front and back.
This would improve stagger abilities from many Warframes and especially help improve Ashs "fatal teleport" A-mod.

 

Thank you!

That's all I can think about off of my head right now.  Sorry if one or two seemed a bit out of nowhere. Also, sorry if I wasn't good enough at getting to the point, I'm terrible at that.
All in all, I'm very satisfied with this big change already and I can't wait to try out all the other melees with this rework.  Keep up the fantastic work.

Edited November 4, 2019 by MicSet

[vaarnaaarne]

I feel that things are in a good spot right now in regards to most factors. The broken systems were reeled in to a significant degree (even if Blood Rush is still far more desirable than not having it on anything with 20+ base crit chance, I do see it as a special point of value that I have given a lot of thought to the necessity of Condition Overload in builds lately). Stat rebalance of weapons is something I feel has been an astounding improvement. I haven't used a Heavy Blade since Friday, which is basically unprecedented. I've done Sorties and Floods with melee weapon classes that would never have passed the bar before, and I never felt like I was trading away performance.

Changes to Reach have been exactly what I've wanted, and it shows how much better a flat bonus for the stat is on every level compared to a % bonus. Now every weapon I've tried has felt like it ultimately has just the right amount of swing arc.

15 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

 

If we are to bring back certain builds back to light, such as status melee builds, the best approach is to go back to whatever mods were affected and reinvent their identity. Condition Overload needs another hard look over especially, more than likely a revert back to its original algorithm with a lower melee multiplier than +60% melee multiplier. Blood Rush and Gladiator mods applying modded crit chance into their algorithm should be considered. Heavy Attacks with how they consume combo counter, their practical utility in-game as a massive attack, their animation speeds - the very concept of this feature needs a revisit to make players that used Life Strike as their HP-replenish mod more welcoming than ever. No solid comments regarding Maiming Strike, tbqh.

 

If we were to consider changing how Blood Rush works in contrast to other crit chance mods, I believe this is looking at it the wrong way around. The major reason why the trio were so broken as mods was because of being allowed to interact with other mods like they were before.

Far better would be to take a second look at the other crit chance mods and make them more viable in themselves or at least in a Primed form. Should heavy attacks in general be improved upon to make them less clunky to use, there would be a certain benefit to having a stronger baseline of crit compared to a higher maximum crit. One way might be to have True Punishment for example provide a small (like 20 or 30) flat bonus to crit, while making sure that this is applied AFTER Blood Rush. Provided other mods don't affect them, there is a place for flat bonuses to crit chance. What there isn't room for is mods that multiply the effects of other mods directly (or the way Meme Strike used to give such an outlandishly massive bonus to one thing; while it's been properly nerfed I do think Slide Crit Bonus itself should be removed as a concept and a more game functional replacement to it done instead of something that incentivized people to use macros).

This is similar to how I believe Condition Overload shouldn't be "improved" (in fact, I think it should have been given a max status procs limit like originally in workshop), it's not something you can fix even if you give it a lower bonus that doesn't self-multiply if it affects total damage. Because it cannot be fixed that way, it will only lead right back to the old situation where it's a mandatory mod. I would say it would be smarter to do as mentioned before with Blood Rush and instead have CO act as it does as an alternative to Pressure Point.

Mods that directly multiply the total effect of other mods are simply an unworkable prospect. We should bury the concept and never look back, because the game will be better for it for leaving behind a fundamentally broken concept.

[Ktro]

The nerf to essential mods like maiming strike and blood rush has essentially made whips ineffective for any high level content and melee as a whole feels a lot smoother but weaker statwise unable to be effective in high level missions specially against armour

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

2 hours ago, vaarnaaarne said:

If we were to consider changing how Blood Rush works in contrast to other crit chance mods, I believe this is looking at it the wrong way around. The major reason why the trio were so broken as mods was because of being allowed to interact with other mods like they were before.

Far better would be to take a second look at the other crit chance mods and make them more viable in themselves or at least in a Primed form. Should heavy attacks in general be improved upon to make them less clunky to use, there would be a certain benefit to having a stronger baseline of crit compared to a higher maximum crit. One way might be to have True Punishment for example provide a small (like 20 or 30) flat bonus to crit, while making sure that this is applied AFTER Blood Rush. Provided other mods don't affect them, there is a place for flat bonuses to crit chance. What there isn't room for is mods that multiply the effects of other mods directly (or the way Meme Strike used to give such an outlandishly massive bonus to one thing; while it's been properly nerfed I do think Slide Crit Bonus itself should be removed as a concept and a more game functional replacement to it done instead of something that incentivized people to use macros).

This is similar to how I believe Condition Overload shouldn't be "improved" (in fact, I think it should have been given a max status procs limit like originally in workshop), it's not something you can fix even if you give it a lower bonus that doesn't self-multiply if it affects total damage. Because it cannot be fixed that way, it will only lead right back to the old situation where it's a mandatory mod. I would say it would be smarter to do as mentioned before with Blood Rush and instead have CO act as it does as an alternative to Pressure Point.

Mods that directly multiply the total effect of other mods are simply an unworkable prospect. We should bury the concept and never look back, because the game will be better for it for leaving behind a fundamentally broken concept.

The unfortunate case is that if you are going to keep Blood Rush and the Gladiator mods as they are now, it will further incentivize a favoritism towards weapons that bolster better base stats than weapons that aren’t up to par to utilize Blood Rush and Gladiator mods. Before, you could use crit chance mods to help boost scaling of crits for weapons that had crit values around 10-15-20% to make them manageable for crit scaling, but now the bar has been set for weapons that must have at least 24-28% base crit now that crit chance modifications have no influence therein. And this is not accounting Maiming Strike. When the combo multiplier is capped at 12x combo counter at 220 hits, the reality of how crit scales and how melee weapons are segregated is that much more apparent. And having the crit chance mods applying a flat bonus to crit would be a terrible suggestion, as we would be back to discussions regarding Maiming Strike not applying a flat crit bonus anymore regardless of whether it interacts with Blood Rush and Gladiator Mods, AND THEN having to consider a mod such as Sacrificial Steel becoming the meta if such a change were enacted (thereby causing mod capacity disruption and confusion as to how we achieved this direction into mod building).

Not only that, Exalted melee weapons are hit even further without being able to take advantage of Acolyte mods before and now with crit chance mods not applying to “the Blood Rush” algorithm prior to its crit application for Gladiator mods. Exalted melee weapons have struggled immensely prior to the additions of acolyte mods, set mods, and Condition Overload 3-4 years ago, and now we have regressed back to that era in melee.

As for Condition Overload, this is what I mean by how we’re in a very weird paradigm now. You say that you don’t want it to be a mandatory mod prior to this update because of its unique algorithm, but it’s now a mandatory mod because it’s essentially replacing Primed/Pressure Point. Status Melee has also suffered because now more than ever there is no mod to help status melee scale on par or better than a crit build or a crit hybrid build that is reliant on high base crit chance of the weapon. If you had taken a look of the original algorithm and numbers and how Condition Overload worked at +60% melee multiplier, it was in fact the percentage on the multiplier that made it exceedingly desirable and abused. You can only imagine the discussions I’ve had with several people discussing this matter, where we all agreed that the “+60% melee multiplier is too much, but going +5 to 10% melee multiplier would be terrible.” THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND TO THE ORIGINAL ALGORITHM that can fix egregious exponential scaling, but we have to be honest about not beating around the bush and actually think about how melee should work against scaling enemy difficulty, content, armor, and not be subjugated on how the playerbase should be capped on their creativity to scaling enemy difficulty.

Really, we’re all in this thought experiment devised by this update on how these balance changes are affecting build diversity and its integrity. And I feel with the utmost honesty that these changes made to Blood Rush and Condition Overload (I’m fine with the change to Maiming Strike being multiplicative to base crit chance and not interacting with Blood Rush) have essentially crippled how melee can be made unique per weapon. Now more than ever each and every weapon is modded essentially the same with more of a division and favoritism toward weapons that have higher base crit chance than others.

Is that how we should approach melee with this update now? Where the selection for melee is more monotonous and streamlined toward crit? I really hope not, and this is for the better for Warframe and the future of melee.

Edited November 4, 2019 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Marinara19]

I'm starting to agree with the people that complain about life strike~ It needs a better effect! It's too clunky otherwise or maybe increase the values of healing return? Since most people will have to use Condition overload.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Marinara19
Fixing a mistake

[Oris104]

Make Blood rush and CO use total CC/Damage instead of base and we're good

[CobaltPhoenix]

Okay so I can somewhat understand and accept that slapping on an unranked mod (Covert Lethality) and then being able to one-shot most enemies (assuming you can get finishers on them) was a bit on the broken side, but the new changes to Covert Lethality are a bit much. There's probably a ton of similar responses to mine but I wanted to give some more concrete stuff.

Before the update, as long as covert lethality was on a dagger, you could use stealth, Ash's Fatal Teleport, or Inaros to one-shot any enemy susceptible to finishers.

Now, even with a maxed out CL, a maxed out Primed Pressure Point, a maxed out Finishing Touch, maxed out Rending Strike, and 2 90% elemental mods, you can BARELY one shot SOME level 160 enemies.

The main reason most people ever used daggers was to use Covert Lethality because it was a guaranteed kill. That was one of the funnest things about stealth frames like Ash, Loki, and Ivara. Finishers are also important for Inaros in order to heal.

So while I'm not saying CL should go back to what it was, it should still allow daggers to get a guaranteed kill when using a finisher, if you put a little more work into modding the dagger. Maybe have it so when unranked it does a certain % of the enemy's max health as finisher damage, while ranking it up to max does 100% of their max health as finisher damage. Or, if that's still too much, make it so it only reaches something like 70% of their max health with the mod at max rank, and make Finishing touch do 30% of max health as finisher damage (instead of the 60% Finisher damage bonus it is as of now), with Finishing touch being somewhat less since it can go on any weapon, not just daggers. Maybe the numbers can use some tweaking (but still keep it so the combined damage from both max rank mods is 100% of enemy health as finisher damage), but the idea would be that if you put in a little more time and effort into modding the dagger you can still always kill whatever enemy you're doing a finisher on.

As a side note, with channeling gone, you can no longer dissolve bodies to prevent enemies from finding them. It'd be kind of nice to add that feature to covert lethality so you can still be extra stealthy (I mean, the mod IS called Covert Lethality)

I don't think allowing you to one-shot most (again, this still wouldn't affect enemies that can't be stealth-finished) enemies one at a time would really be considered broken conisdering we have plenty of room-clearing weapons and frames, this is just to allow people that like to sneak in to a room and systematically kill enemies one by one to always be able to do so, or to be able to one-shot some of those heavier enemies (looking at you, Nox).

[Cephalon_Umbra]

[Weeping wounds] seems bugged and does not increase Status chance, tested with my Venka Prime and other Melee Weapons.

Venka Prime has 24% status wich mean at 9x combo count: Total Status= 24% Base status x (1 + 0.4 Weeping Wounds x (9 Combo Count - 1) = 100.8 Status Chance

Also since Mods like Bloodrush and Weeping Wounds cannot be equiped to Exalted Weapons the combo counter has basically no use for those Frames.

Valkyr Talon (and i assume the other Exalted Melee Weapons too) havent gotten a Base Damage increase to compensate for the loss of regular attacks not scaling with Combo Count anymore. Will this be addressed or is that intentional?

My suggestion is enabling Bloodrush, Weeping Wounds and the other Melee Acolyte Mods for Exalted Melee Weapons, also increasing Exalted Melee Base Damage like the normal Weapons.

[vaarnaaarne]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Is that how we should approach melee with this update now? Where the selection for melee is more monotonous and streamlined toward crit? I really hope not, and this is for the better for Warframe and the future of melee.

 

I fully agree that Blood Rush and CO remain problems, just not gigantic problems that they were before. In case of CO further nerfs are needed because of its disruptive effect on Pressure Point, it should have been capped at 3 procs; in case of Blood Rush the fundamental issue is more that True Steel/Punishment are dramatically underpowered (a flat bonus of some value applied after all other mods like Arcane Avenger and Cat's Eye are applied now would actually make them more applicable), making them multiply Blood Rush would still be worse. Or honestly just removed entirely from the game because there is no way to truly balance them. They'll always cause problems because there is no "sweet" spot for them, they'll always be either too weak or too strong. The playerbase should never have been given broken mods to be "creative" with in the first place (and DE really should bring the hammer down already and not let Endless be endless so people can take a hint, scaling is not meant to be infinite), and rivens only made things worse.

Also they do not promote build diversity, and never did, just look at the whips and polearms galore that used to be the case; right now I feel there's actual satisfaction to using every weapon class because of the reworked combo inputs and weapon ranges, those are what promotes actual weapon variety by giving fundamentals that are needed in every case (I avoided Meme Strike and meta out of principle, the problem with using most weapons before was the lack of basic QoL performance like range and functional combos). Clear purpose and intent is needed, and restraint, not having more and more powerful mods. Reach and Primed Reach are in a way a microcosm of how things should be: Not having an overabundence of mods for a weapon that then run out of control because of poor (or alternatively profiteering, though DE have been rather benign with Warframe compared to how most companies run their live service games) design or lack of foresight. Having a few mods with specific and controlled effect (this is a fundamental problem of Warframe's mod system, the effects are MASSIVE and therefore inherently a nightmare to balance, and then some of them can feed into others).

The whole MR fodder thing basically runs counter to trying to make every weapon viable, ideally we should want that every weapon type is able to compete and then demand more type skins; but that's just a sidenote really.

EDIT: Actually, something just game to me in a lightbulb moment. Now, a big problem with Blood Rush and CO is that they can be combined together (and previously all could be combined with Meme Strike). So what if a first step to getting some sort of "go for either status or crit for maximum damage" could be... Making Blood Rush and CO mutually exclusive. If only one can be equipped, then these mods COULD be balanced in some fashion. Sure, everyone would use ONE of them, but each of them could be controlled and limited properly (another detail about CO I feel is that it would be better if there was a limit to the number of procs it benefits from because it would also alow for greater freedom instead of funneling users to having a maximum number of procs in minimum time as the real option; Blood Rush does have a quality to it that it's much more freely applied since all it needs is slapping things enough).

Edited November 4, 2019 by vaarnaaarne

[code403]

zenistar disc time is too low for cases when you don't want to melee enemies in high level because if you do you will just get 1 shot

i suggest the following changes:
1. revert disc time to how it was base 45 seconds to still have a benefit from the disc even if you don't want to hit enemies in close range
2. change the combo multiplier counter to work as an additive bonus of ~5 seconds each level (12 x 5 = 60 seconds bonus) totaling 105 seconds disc time if you choose to melee enemies to build up your counter otherwise its the usual 45 seconds
3. revert the disc throw distance to how it was pre update 26 because now it throws it too far
 

[adv3rsity]

Hello,

First, thank you for the long-standing work you have put into Warframe. I have been around this game a long time and, overall, believe Warframe has improved over time. However, I usually do not provide my feedback on changes but felt compelled to do so this time as I feel there are a lot of great changes in this update but equally some that are not so good. I have endeavored to give the new systems a chance before providing my feedback, which focuses on those changes that concern me rather than those that appear to be an improvement. I hope this feedback helps in the coming iterations.

Life Strike:
Prior to update 26, Life Strike could restore health as quickly as your melee weapon could strike an opponent (assuming you had the required energy). Now, Life Strike only functions with Heavy Strikes, which have a charge time and drain the combo counter. As the goal of Warframe's combat is to be mobile and fluid, tethering our melee healing to a clunky charge mechanic is moving away from that goal. The greatest loss of functionality is we can no longer dart into combat and release a quick strike to recover lost health and rather must endeavor to not be struck down during our defenseless charge up time. Also, Channeling afforded increased damage for Life Strike at combo counter 1.0 whereas Heavy Attacks do not. Melee healing is risky enough due to the required proximity without being locked behind a charge time that will result in player death against high level enemies  or else require sacrificing combat efficiency to lessen the charge time. Please consider implementing a way to utilize Life Strike without being locked behind a charge mechanic; maybe make Life Strike work via blocking and add a portion of blocked damage as health?

Elemental only weapons:
Pror to update 26, there were melee weapons with elemental-only damage types that could achieve 100% Status Chance, such as the Lacera. Now, IPS damage types have been added to these weapons, except for the Silva and Aegis family apparently (thank you!), which removes their ability to exclusively apply Elemental status effects. This lessens player choice and variety in applying status effects as melee weapons with only IPS damage types still exist, allowing for easy application of IPS status effects. In contrast, the ability to apply elemental only status effects is now apparently an exclusive ability of the Silva and Aegis family. I thoroughly appreciate that weapon, but can we have move variety in the weapons that can inflict non-IPS status effects?

Zenistar:
Prior to update 26, the Zenistar allowed for a quick deployment of it's disc with a fixed 45 second duration. As the Zenistar as a melee weapon (ie: ignoring it's disc) is outclassed by several other melee weapons, the ability to deploy it's disc and provide some "ranged" benefits to an average melee weapon is what made it special (not to mention it is a login reward). While I appreciate that the disc's duration can now be extended through the combo counter, the base duration of 10 seconds feels excessively low - especially considering that at least 2 seconds is cast time, deploying the disc counts as a Heavy Attack (if the disc's impact satisfies the requirements to activate Life Strike it will be a minuscule heal due to the low damage of being struck by the disc; Life Strike functions as normal with an enemy within melee range but that interferes with accurate disc placement), and retrieving the disc also appears to count as a Heavy Attack to drain the Combo Counter yet again. Comparing to the duration granted before update 26, we now need to achieve a Combo Counter of 4.0 for a 40 second duration of the disc and then regain said combo counter level post disc launch to maintain that duration for the next deployment. When you consider that the disc being deployed or recalled on every heavy attack, which causes issues with Life Strike that previously were not a consideration, in addition to the shortened duration of the disc, this set of changes feels collectively bad for a once unique and effective weapon.

Covert Lethality:
Prior to update 26, Covert Lethality was one of the few tools available to us that could scale as high as enemy health and armor could. While perhaps that power is too great to be returned, 100% Finisher Damage feels completely lackluster. Daggers now have decreased range compared to other melee weapons and the minimum blocking angle available. The previous iteration of Covert Lethality could help offset those weaknesses in exchange for the power to one-shot any enemy it offered. With the current iteration of Covert Lethality, what incentive is there is use Daggers? 

Enduring Affliction:
Prior to update 26, Enduring Affliction allowed us to extend the duration of existing Status Effects through channeling, the energy cost of which helped balance the awesome power this mod granted. Currently, it adds 100% status chance on lifted enemies, a sub-par option given that a multitude of melee weapons (not to mention primary and secondary weapons) can achieve 100% status chance on every attack - regardless of the enemy being lifted. This fact makes this mod seem redundant, outside of those who exclusively rely on crit-based weapons (but if that is the reasoning, where is the mod that allows status-based weapons to crit on lifted enemies?). While I would prefer the ability to extend the duration of status effects to be restored, perhaps another option for this mod is to make the enemy more vulnerable to all forms of damage while lifted?

Thanks for reading and I apologize if any of this is not in the correct section of the forum!