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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

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hace 6 minutos, DarkMarkX dijo:

Agreed. The requiem investigation part is easily the worst aspect as well. Doing 25+ star chart missions, along with all the other stuff is a bit overkill, considering all you're going to get is a mastery fodder weapon at the end of it. Then you need to re-farm the relics+requiem mods over and over again, god forbid if you're even missing one mod, because you're probably going to need that specific one you're missing each time, while you get duplicates of others you may not need for a while.

Welcome to my world. I got 5 mods quickly the first day and my lich required the other 3 and I've been farming ever since. I'm still missing 1 after a couple dozen relics.

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Am 31.10.2019 um 19:16 schrieb [DE]Danielle:

snip~

so why does the kuva ogris have much less base dmg than the base ogris ?? also, the elemental bonus does work but to "balance" that the other base stats are reduced.

my kuva ogris doesnt even have a total of 500 dmg...it barely passes 450 which would mean a simple downgrade to the base ogris with its only elemental 700 blast and bigger magazine.

am i missing something or are these kuva weapons barely even worth it, if at all ??

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Main problems with Kuva Liches:

-Weapons are not tradeable.

-Kuva lich can repeat the weapon that you already got previously making it insufferably hard to hunt specific weapons.

-No easy way of getting rid of a lich in case it has a repeated weapon.

-Nodes are separate from everything else making them pointless. At least let us farm fissures while hunting murmurs.

-If nodes are to stay separated, Lich stealing should stay within the node, currently they can steal so much (including gift alert rewards!) that it's ridiculous.

-Murmur collecting takes forever. Can it be reduced please?

-Only one way of getting relics and not being able to hunt for a specific relic.

-Weapon element mechanic is obscure and hidden, thank god community came through with statistics for each warframe.

Overall Kuva lich design and concept is extremely cool and I love them, their names, their powers, their strength and challenge it's fun to fight them. But the implementation of the system is very poor right now. It takes an absurd amount of time and effort to kill a lich specially the relic part requiring hours to obtain the relics, hours to farm void traces then more time getting the actual requiem mod that you need. This whole part could have been skipped or reworked differently to make it less tedious. I've burned all my void traces and now I have to spend hours farming just for these so I can spend more hours farming murmurs in pointless detached missions that have close to 0 rewards since they are separate nodes.

 

PS: kuva ogris is overwhelmingly bad compared to the normal ogris.

 

Edited by Domaik
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I just learned that lich weapons have random IPS damage as well. It is in my opinion unacceptable. I talked about random element bonuses in my previous post and this is just extending it to IPS. Weapons should have, no matter what, fixed stat values. This is not a riven mod, it's a weapon. This does not fit the level of investment people put in weapons. Kuva weapons should not be replaceable by better rolled stats. Those weapons are already hard to come by. I don't want to feel bad when I get a bad roll and it's the only roll i'll be able to get in the those month or even longer. I have no reason to farm liches when weapons aren't even better than other weapons available in arsenal. Those random stats with all the other inconveniences make me not want to touch any lich ever again. Just not worth the time for this non reward, just feels like a punishment for trying to get something I loved.

I know I'm a little dramatic, please to not take it too seriously. I still love the lich hunt for what it is! It's a really fun challenge. I just think that rewards should be better though out. My proposition it that you should be able to choose lich weapon like we choose it's elemental bonus to ease the grind. Also all weapons should be patched to have the same IPS and elemental value so every reward counts.

47 minutes ago, ixidron92 said:

...looks like something you'd expect from a bad quality Chinese P2W MMO.

I could not agree more about how this feels right now.

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On Murmurs:

1) collecting takes too long. should be more than doubled, at least.

2) Seems like when someone else kills your thralls, your murmur increases much slower, this shouldn't be the case. Killing someone else's thrall should increase the player's own murmur slightly, but anyone killing your thrall should increase your murmur the same amount as if you killed it yourself.

On weapons: 

1) Random stats are a no-no, unless you can use Kuva to reroll the stats,  just like you do with Rivens.

2) Player should be able to sacrifice one unveiled Riven to apply one of the Riven's stats to replace one of the weapon's stats.

On stealing rewards:

1) player should be able to optionally pay ransom with Kuva for the Lich on the Mission result screen to buy back one or more stolen rewards.

On Kuva Lich: 

1) Player should have additional FUS-RO-DAH words to perform changes to the Kuva Lich without killing him/her.

2) Those words would be simpler. 1 or 2 words, and work in any order.

3) When bleeding out the Kuva Lich, before the finisher, 4 Kuva blobs should float around, and the weapon would fall to the ground. 

4) Player would have the option of trying to kill the Kuva Lich, or destroy one of its powers, or the weapon.

5) The Kuva Lich would replace the power or weapon with a different one. 

 

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The Murmur bar re-filling every time you kill a Thrall is kinda irritating, 

I'm  not sure if it's a server side issue where it needs to check every single time to see where your current level is and then refills or if it's because the Thralls give such a depressingly low ammount of XP that you where afraid if people didn't see the bar move all the time that they'd absolutely lose it?

But I really wish the bar would just be filled the whole time and incement only the XP I just recieved so I didn't have to sit there for a second or so staring at it waiting to see how close to full it actually is. 

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This is basically the nemesis system from SoM, and of course, that system is awesome, engaging and entertaining from start to end. Trying to have something like that for your own game is nothing bad. The problem is DE, you #*!%ed up big time with the implementation by adding a ton of extra steps, RNG mechanics, timegates, and massive grind per enemy for a measly reward. All kuva weapons are very much MR fodder. People would have loved a Kuva Ignis, Zarr, Dual Grakata, Atterax, Gorgon or Ack & Brunt, but nope, you picked the worst of the worst and sprinkled everythign with RNG damage bonuses and RNG elemental damage.

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Thanks buddy, but my point still stands. I actually like the idea that the progenitor frame dictates the elemental type. That is awesome. Love it. But my grief is with the random number. And now I am reading that IPS is random as well. Give us a way to upgrade them to the max stats, it can be another mechanic. I'm down to grind for that. But as it is... 

Excuse me while I go cry in the corner.

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My feedback is simple: too much grind for too little reward. Reduce grinding or increase rewards. As it is, I have no reason to look for more Kuva Liches.
Kuva weapons are just old reskinned ones with random elemental added damage, not worth the hussle to farm relics, open relics and search for countless Thralls to understand which Requiem Mod is needed, then hunt him to understand the order.
If Eidolons are a 5/10 on a rewarding level, this is a 2/10.
And I'm here to tell you this because I'm pissed you used this new design to justify the lack of content so far.
Really disappointed.
 

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9 hours ago, Gentleman_Bird said:

It's not actually random, the element depends on the warframe you used to kill the larvling.

Thanks buddy, but my point still stands. I actually like the idea that the progenitor frame dictates the elemental type. That is awesome. Love it. But my grief is with the random number. And now I am reading that IPS is random as well. Give us a way to upgrade them to the max stats, it can be another mechanic. I'm down to grind for that. But as it is... 

Excuse me while I go cry in the corner.

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2 hours ago, Nasahul said:

Killed my first Lich earlier, and went a got a second after that. It is the exact same Lich as the first. Same weapons, same armor, same model, same voice. Just a different name and different weaknesses is all. Feelsbadman.jpg Wish there was a way to get rid of them immediately. It's going to suck having to grind out the mods and requiem murmurs just to have the exact same experience again with no option of rewards, since I took the weapons the first time. The Kuva Lich "trading" between players can't come soon enough.

Interesting note: It turns out that even though I killed my first lich and took its weapon, it somehow also spawns in missions to help me. I double-checked and sure enough, it shows vanquished in history, yet it 100% spawned in mission and gave me a hand. Bugframe is alive and well boys

 

(DE pls don't take my buggy guardian away)

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 you get a random percentage of a weapon bonus, you cant do anything to scale this bonus

i got 29%  seer

29%  twin stubba

someone got lucky and got 60% bonus elemental

i dont want to use the S#&$tier weapons

i want the best ones. im not even bothering  to level the 29% kuva seer i got

i want the 60% too

why i cant give something to the dumb lich to make it leave

"ok tenno i leave if you give 30 orokin cells"

"here get these orokin cells, i hope you choke on them"

and he leaves so i can get a new lich and hope for a better percentage

i dont want to grind my ass off for a 29% twin stubba. 

btw, those targets that you need to kill to get the lich should be like capture targets, you shoot them, they go down, and if i want the lich i press the interact key on them if i dont want to deal with a lich i can safely do my stuff in peace

 

Edited by Sharkgoblin
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Can Kuva Liches that you have vanquished spawn in regular missions to help you? Because if not, that seems unfair since the Lich can steal rewards from you in non Kuva Lich related missions.

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Every time I look for Requiem Fissures, it's either the Rescue or Survival. I really hope the other nodes on the Fortress will get fissures also, for a bit more variety.

(The grind for Requiem Mods doesn't seem so bad to me. Since the patch notes say they "only consume charges when you successfully kill a Lich", getting the right three for your first Lich may be a struggle, but it will become much less onerous once you have them all, as each one will be good for three Liches.)

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so from what i can tell kuva liches always look the same even if you kill them and get a new one. i get that we are suppose to get a personal tie with the kuva lich as our nemesis but it really feels like you get shafted if you get a kuva lich you don't like the look, voice or personality of. Is there any way to change the look of your kuva lich right now that i miht have missed, if not i'd recomend giving us the ability to somehow custumize the look of, or reset the look of our lich when we either kill or convert them.

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I'm a PS4 player so I'm only watching from the sidelines at the moment but here are my two cents.

I really don't like that the Requiem mods have charges. There are four relics, each with two potential requiem mods. It's RNG which relic will drop from a Kuva mission, if one drops at all (considering the 30% drop rate from non-Kuva Flood missions). Then it's 50/50 which of the two mods pop out of a relic, if RNG decides you're getting an uncommon reward. Even with the ability to copy another player's rewards, that's a lot of RNG stacked on top of more RNG.

I'm more a casual player if anything. I'm worried that I'll spend all my time trying to farm these relics/mods all the while the Lich is stealing portions of my resources. And if RNG hates me, I'm stuck with a 'handicap' on my account as the lich's influence grows and I can't do a thing about if. Farming for some things is already tedious in Warframe, I don't want something to make that even more difficult. Especially since this system doesn't seem to be optional. It's not like a certain game mode (like PvP or Lunaro) where I don't have to do it if I don't want to.

Can we not have a way to recharge the requiem mods with Endo, Kuva and time? IE stick them in the foundry and wait for Ordis to top them back up? Using Kuva, Endo and time to recharge the mods will still require Kuva missions to be farmed as some people wont want to wait for the foundry to and they'll be hoping the relics to drop.

TL;DR: Not a fan of RNG on top of RNG with the requiem mods. Can we have a way to recharge these mods, please?

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On 2019-11-01 at 5:29 PM, Moomabo said:

Also your monetization of these new relics looks scummy and desperate (are you guys in financial trouble?).

Well, yeah. These mods add too much, like, way too much monotonous and outright boring grind to get to the fun part - fighting the liches. In Shadow of Mordor/War, which was the referecne for lich system, fighting bosses is fun because you can try to kill them whenever you want after you get intel on their identity or simply meet them. Of course, if the boss is too hard, immune to your preferred attacks or something, you need to gather more intel on him and take your time to prepare, but that isn't mandatory. No hours upon hours of pain and chores. Returning to the packs, it looks like "create a problem, sell the solution" in the worst sense of it. Not "pay to skip", but "pay to win"

I believe, the lich system meant to be a challenging endgame content which means players need to actually achieve (same with ephemeras) the victory, not buy it. And "challenging" means actually having to fight the boss using the right strategy to defeat it, not layers of RNG, not the grindwall, even a pay-to-win one. The things get worse because you can't skip a useless lich and killing one takes as much time as one with good weapon. 

As for finances, I understand that supporting a game like warframe isn't cheap. But pay-to-win shouldn't be a solution as it decreases the overall quality of the game. A subscription woud be better. 

DE, we believe in you. The lich system as an idea is great, but it needs balancing and polish to be what it meant to be.

Edited by AureliusVarro

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I always love what you do but this time is so frustrating.
 

I spent 2hrs doing missons in order to spawn larvling.

Then this mourning 5 hrs to collect Thralls, after the fifth and seeing the small movement i began counting, i lost my count a 37 (or 38) and it was still a less than 3/4 of circle. Of first hint.

At the moment using this scale i will need a whole month of playing only to get a single lich.

 

Second: as solo player it is hard to do kuva flood, maybe increasing chance for Requiem Relic in kuva siphon solo... I also opened 12 Requiem, all Flawless, still get only one Requiem mod...Make them common drop and maybe double requiem as uncommon (even with less uses than usual).

I will not say anything about next steps as i had to sleep so i didn't play enough to actually try to kill the lich.

 

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The Parazon 'mercy' finisher is a good start, but I think we can take this further. Aside from looking cool, there are no noticeable bonuses from doing it. At the moment, I'm better off nuking, killing it with a weapon, or using an ability to finish off the enemy.

What I think you guys can do is take a book from Doom's glory kill. Give us health regeneration that scales with our loadout and warframe every time we complete a finisher, quadruple the common loot that comes off of that enemy, or replenish our energy bar to full. Give us an incentive to watch the epic animation the team did, not just for the sake of 'looking-good'. A function should not just appear pretty, it should function splendidly!

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After attempting for 4 strait hours to get my murmurs to give me the 'hints' (i.e. not hints, just unlocking. definition of a hint is: a slight or indirect indication or suggestion. There is no guessing during the grind process outside of RNG killing with a load of mods on hand), I go into a Kuva flood that just so happens to be under the influence of my litch... he steals the relic (sooo, can't garentee if the kuva fortress is near a influenced area that i can get rid of the litch, wonderful). That is a strait up middle finger salute to me. I'm getting off till they adjust the grind and not let the litch steal the very thing that allows me to try to randomly guess how to kill it!

Also, 25% fire tonkor... I hope it would be worth the 10-15 hour grind, but i doubt it.  DE please at the least prevent the litch from stealing kuva missions and reduce the grind to acceptable levels! 4 hours non-stop mission hopping to see what all three mods i need only to find my missions to get the relics to RNG the mods out of them is seriously making me want to just go pick up another hobby till you fix this.  Also, had my final sortie mission in an influenced node, my reward screen was blank and i didn't get the statue that everyone else complained about getting, so sortie missions are also getting stolen.  Didnt the devs say some missions were exempt from the 'tax'?

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What's I've experienced and what's been mentioned to me so far influences my feedback here.

What I'd personally like changed is:

1) Make Murmur's easier to obtain(reduce the amount needed for a kill to like 75 for all three instead of 150), or make a MurMur identifier that can drop from last tier Kuva Relic, idk.

2) If the last mission in one of your planet's territory is supposedly a guaranteed spawn, indicate it as so visually in the navigation screen. May want to also make it so the mission isn't repeateable, or at least reduce the chance the Lich will spawn on repeated attempts at the same last mission (Mentioned this to @[DE]Rebecca yesterday).

3) Converting or Killing a Kuva Lich should give you a good amount of Kuva based on the level the Lich is. It makes sense thematically that you'd be taking that Kuva for yourself after the Lich is dead, it's not like it disappears into nothingness after all.

4) I think you should be able to get Kuva after completing a Kuva Lich territory mission. Not a whole lot, mind you, but it'd basically scale based on how many thralls you killed that mission. Similar to my #3 suggestion. Though that's just IMO, less important than the other three.

5) If a Lich is to spawn in the mission, give it a few seconds indicator it will before it does so some people aren't instagibbed by them. 😄

6) If you already know of a word or two to kill your Kuva Lich, unlocking a Murmur should only show the one you're missing.


I think those are my main points here!

Overall system is fun from what I've experienced so far. Thanks bunches for the update ❤️

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Alittle more feedback.

Im enjoying the current kuva lich, but i have not forgotten.

This is very much a shadows of mordor nemesis system, not the "enemy grows stronger as you kill them" warframe's kingpin system. That also include the lich copying the skills you kill it with everytime.

But with colour schemes and abilities being kinda constant at the moment im really hoping you guys haven't given up on warframe's very own nemesis system and are still working on them along with the personalised colour and ability copies!

Regarding lich stealing stuffs, personally i have no issue with it but id like to suggest new lich-generated missions like spy and survivals where players can recover their own stolen stuffs some at a time. gives a different approach to dealing with frustration if players dont want to deal with liches yet.

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A player shouldn't be punished for not having the right mods equipped, A Kuva Lich should instead drop something when they escape defeat and grow in power (Requiem Relic, Kuva), To incentivize always fighting the Kuva Lich whenever they appear. While with the right mod setup you can still permanently vanquish them and obtain better rewards.

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