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(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback


[DE]Danielle
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-Kuva Liches should be able to be killed traditionally with them reincarnating stronger and dropping your stolen goods and maybe a relic.

-Murmurs are by far the worst part of the Lich grind, Having the three murmurs in any order should work in permanently killing the Lich.

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I have finally vanquished my first Lich and was able to test a toxic drakgoon.

I have to say, contrary to what I hoped for at first, the kuva weapon variations are a little underwhelming. It doesn't really matter how they're buffed, but the drakgoon for example could use some more magazine ammo and even less charge time.

Damage could be buffed but it is really up to what makes it most balanced, but right now, even though personally I prefer this drakgoon variation, it still feels like it needs something more.

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Bring back the finishers after blinding mobs (takes away from enjoyment of killing them off)

Couldn't care less of CO,Maiming strike and Blood rush are  "nerfed" as im not a melee person HOWEVER i have learned to like a few melee weapons even without using those mods.

Catchmoon -- never used but from what it sounds like you guys need to extend the range so its more of a shottie than silly nerf to melee range..

Are the new mods going to be of any use aside from used to the parazon/kill lich ? (are there any new mods aside from those in this release?)

Grendel missions going to be very difficult for those not keen on melee

Heavy attacks - too slow (Exalted blade feels clunky to use now)

Lich appears too often in missions when i haven't had a chance to farm the mods to kill it. Needs to be a way for players to either ignore lich in mission or make it go away until player has ability to kill it. Spread of influence is too fast on start chart - one planet a day?!?!!!?

Can a player convert more than one lich?. 

No comment on vasco except others seem to think there isnt much utility to it (revive is too inconsistent)

 

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The kuva seer is vastly stronger than its base version but the only problem is its ammo eco its down right abysmal vs its base varient only having 9/27 the mag of 9 is fine but the reserves of 27 just dont sit right with the gun whos base version has 210 ammo in the reserve.

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Who thought it was reasonable to add 13 new weapons that give mastery and that require five formas to reach max level like Paracelsus ? And then put these weapons on nemesis enemies that require insane grind , farming and rng ? It's probably going to take on average 25-35 lich kills to get all guns since it's random. Going to waste 60 plus formas, thousands of void traces and countless relics.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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Amazing grind. So, today I've been grinding all day trying to get the only mod I'm missing: Fass, which drops in the same relic that drops Ris. After over a dozen tries I have 3 Ris, 2 exilus bps and a lot of kuva and ember stars. I have 7/8 parazon mods, guess which one do I need to kill my lich?

But of course, you can always buy a lootbox I mean, relic pack. Silly me. (I seriously hope the new lootbox law hits you hard DE and forces you to get rid of relics) So, for 85 platinum you get to spin the roulette for a small chance to get what you need.

Ah, but of course, you can purchase your mods for 875 platinum. A small price to pay so you don't have to waste 2 days grinding.

BTW, I've been doing all the hourly kuva floods for 12 hours (just joining back whenever, not really playing for 12 hours straight) and out of the twelve, 4 of them didn't reward the relic. Way to bugfix. I'm calling it quits for today. Wasted an entire day on nothing. At this point, I just want to get rid of the lich and avoid spawning one anymore until they reduce the grind and the bullS#&$ RNG.

Edited by ixidron92
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Ok DE, you really messed it up with the Kuva Lich system. Melee, Grendel, Vasca Kavat, the reworks, all mostly good. So why did you fail so miserably at the execution of such a cool concept?
I won't even mention the layers of RNG and the grind needed, since the 13 pages prior to this post did it for me, so I will jump straight to a suggestion.

Ok so, we have the Kuva Lich, a supposedly insanely powerful personal enemy. How about you change the system like so:

1) Make the Requiem mods permanent.
The relics are still gonna be farmed and used, their contents are quite useful.

2) Rework the buildup to the Lich fight.
So far, the whole "kill thralls to get murmurs to find out the correct mod combination" is unappealing, what with how grindy it is. Instead, have the Thralls be the Lich's lieutenants or something. Make them powerful, and make us assassinate them for the unveiling of the correct mods. If the player decides not to deal with the Lieutenants, make them appear at the final Lich fight, while also giving buffs to the Lich for each Lieutenant present: extra damage, extra damage resistance, and a random element immunity. In short, give the player CHOICES. Have them know that they CAN engage the Lich right away, but doing so will make the fight tremendously difficult. This will incentivize the player to kill the Thralls to get the info on which mods to use against the Lich. Or, if you decide to keep the mods destructible, make them so only if the player fails, essentially giving the player the need to kill the Thralls so as not to lose their mods. The current system, where your mods decay once you are successful pretty much equals to punishing players for doing the right thing.

That's it on my part, I'm not touching the whole Kuva Lich system until it gets seriously reworked,  preferably before the next DEVstream.

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13 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Who thought it was reasonable to add 13 new weapons that give mastery and that require five formas to reach max level like Paracelsus ? And then put these weapons on nemesis enemies that require insane grind , farming and rng ? It's probably going to take on average 25-35 lich kills to get all guns since it's random. Going to waste 60 plus formas, thousands of void traces and countless relics.

This guy seems pretty guilty to me 👇

steve GIF

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Right now, the Kuva Lich can only KILL you if you don't have the mods, that's no fun , and in public missions where all 4 can spawn , its very annoying to have someone NOT die to theirs (since they are sequential, so one has to kill you/be killed for the next one to spawn)

Here's an idea that could be fitting for that situation:
-Make him enter a "Fleeing" State where after you down him once or twice and you IGNORE him he gets a timer (like 60 s)  counting down for him to run away from the mission. And the timer could be reset each time he gets downed so for the time you Do want to kill him, he won't escape you if you keep dmging him

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So I've noticed a couple things about the lichs I'd like to share.

First off, I've seen squads arguing more in the past day than I've seen in 3 years.  When one player is afraid of leveling up their lich, it stomps around and the other players can't do anything to stop it from blowing up objectives during excavation/hijack.  This leads to parties practically screaming at each other trying to figure out which player isn't jumping on the grenade.

Secondly, I killed my first lich after 3 days, and hopped onto a new one immediately.  The second he was established as a lich I had a feeling of "Yeah no, I'm not doing all this again, getting him to spawn was a nightmare."  Its the fist time in years I've wanted to just put the game down and not touch it for a couple weeks.  We'll see if I log in next week, but the sheer number of hours it took to bring down just 1 lich (girinding relics, groups, rng of getting requiems, trading to complete the set to get the last one I needed for my guy), just took all the drive to play out of me I guess.  

I think it was when I saw an impact tonkor, a weapon I will throw away the instant I get it.  The grind is just took great to acquire what I consider as useful as a rank 0 mk-1 braton.

The Parzon is nice, cool animations (when they do trigger properly), which adds some space ninja flair to the game, so no complaints there.

TLDR: Parzon cool, Kill your lich so your team doesn't suffer, let us left swipe on liches we don't care about.

edit: thought of something else.  While the Vauban rework is great, it could just be me, but having a new bar on Ember made me completely disregard the frame.  I'm concerned DE is going to put extra meters on more frames in the future.  I can only speak for myself, but I am immediately turned away from any frame that has even more to monitor during missions.

Edited by Tozai
thoughts on side meters
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8 minutes ago, Tozai said:

edit: thought of something else.  While the Vauban rework is great, it could just be me, but having a new bar on Ember made me completely disregard the frame.  I'm concerned DE is going to put extra meters on more frames in the future.  I can only speak for myself, but I am immediately turned away from any frame that has even more to monitor during missions.

yeeeeeah DE loves gauges now and it's awful, you have to play the gauge instead of playing warframe

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Guess I'll pitch in my thoughts as well, and hello DE!

After killing my first Lich, and some contemplation after the postmortem:

Pros: I enjoyed the banter and the idea of a nemesis based on your frame, as well as Kuva variant weapons. This gives an interesting endgame experience, and you never quite know how your adversary will turn out.

Cons: I didn't enjoy the grind, it was simply too immense and took away from the enjoyment. Gathering the relics to gather the mods, to get the murmurs... it was the true nemesis of my experience. I managed to reveal two of the three requiems only to find that neither was the first, and the prospect of trial and error with the six other mods was out of the question, I was, at this point, not feeling the same thrill I had when i first began. After all the work of grinding all eight requiems, grinding 120 thralls, I still had 60 more to go and found tedium-to-challenge ratio 8:1. Even the amount of murmurs awarded from a teammate's successful kill is a drop in the ocean.

Honestly I think the grind part of this, especially with the murmurs, could be tweaked and toned down.

Edit: Second Lich has the same weapon as the first, and looks exactly the same. Aw... that stinks.

Edited by MartinVole
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Farming murmurs take far too much time. I dont expect it to fill one circle in one mission, but doing almost full planet to unlock one is too much.
You can't unlock more than one circle during mission. My first two circles ended like 1-2 Thralls before completion and I had to "waste" next mission just to finish this one.
Ranking up Liches do absolutely nothing other than making all enemies over tanky. It's not fun, just tedious, forcing to bring tanky frame otherwise impact based Grineer weapons will melt you in half clip. Why damage of those is so high and inconsistent? Ballista? Sure, big damage telegraph. Seeker? I got too close, I get it. But there is absolutely no reason for normal trash mobs like Lancers or Shield Lancers to tear through half of full buffed Chroma just because their Vipers and Karaks.
Also Requiem mods are not permanent, meh. I dont think I'm gonna do next Lich after I finish this one with +cold Kraken. It's just Murmurs take too much of work.

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Just a small bit of feedback: when you select a reward from a Requiem Relic, currently it does not tell you how many (if any) of a particular Requiem Mod you have. So you may be presented with a choice of up to 4 mods with cryptic names and no idea which one to pick if you want to make sure to have at least one of each available.

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Once you create Kuva Lich, you need to complete ALL nodes on that very planet before he/she goes to other planets. I don't like this since you have to play missions such as Hijack, Interception, Spy, and Defense. Aside from Spy mission, the rest of the mission will be a nightmare to play solo especially Interception missions (you have to be very lucky if you can get a group in Public which most of the time I cannot get). 

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Gonna give a second feedback  message (first one is around page 10) after getting c******* for a 3rd time ... STOP WITH THE RNG OF WEAPON . On my four liches, 3 were kuva karak..........1 was ayanga and there is no way to get rid of them . Until you fix that, Im not touching this stupid super grindful system. The point of WF is having fun with grind, but this is not GRIND.. this is playing with a slot roulette. This is the worse Update since Kubrow/Kavat breeding slot roulette. It is even worse than that RNG wise and you have to grind through this multi layered  RNG/grind.. 

PUT a WAY to get RID of unwanted lich like you said YOU WOULD DO;..  Im not wasting more CHARGES, because yes this is another problem, on a thing i dont want.....

Sorry if i sound angry, but even ephemeras with their pitiful drop rate dont put me in that state. WORKING to get your lich killed just to get the same WEAPON is stupidity

Edited by MunsuLight
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lich still can show up as allies even after choosing executed option.

game freeze every times lich / group's lich spawn to help.

lich 1 shooting when we don't have the right requiem mod is annoying and getting requiem mod is tedious (murmur) please reduce the amount of thrall needed (1 complete murmur to know the phrase 2nd one to unveil the order)

RNG with the requiem relic(the only thing player will want is the mod not the rest of the item in the relic) and really ayatan amber star?! can we change that to something that can refill charge of requiem mod please.

 

 

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I know a lot of people are upset about getting hold of the relics, but I think once I havea full set and I'm only occasionally replacing them as they lose charges it'll be fine.

Randomised liches are fun, still on my first, but I'm enjoying fighting other peoples liches in controlled territory and hearing all their different dialogues.

Having players liches blocking lich spawns for other players isn't fun. 3 players waiting for their turn at their own liches and having to re-squad because someone else just wants to farm thralls is a bad system. If players can evade the lich for 3 minutes they should despawn. This would also mean players only had a narrow time to kill liches too, which would add intensity to fights.

Hunting the thralls feels bad. It doesn't feel like an exciting hunt, more of a grind.
I would much prefer one mini-boss thrall per planet in lich controlled territory, then there would actually be a reason to clear lich territory out besides not wanting my rewards stolen, I'd know I was narrowing the search area for the thrall on that planet.

Otherwise the system is fun.

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