(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[RyanCooper101]

Give us the Option to NOT make a Larvaling into a Lich:
Idea:
- Kill the Larvaling with the Parazon = No lich, you instead get like 100-200 kuva
- Kill the Larvaling with Anything else = Chance for Kuva Lich (current system)

[Annnoth]

I find there's too much dedication to the kuva liches in order to hunt them. I'm averaging what... 7 hours per based off the almost 3 I've done. That's a huge time investment where any second not farming them is just days added onto when I get to finish them next. That's a lot of time especially for those who can only play a small handful a day! Right now I'm constantly thinking "should I try to get grendel? well I'd have to see if anyones on. Eh, maybe I'll try it myself... but the defense mission is like 30 minutes long and if I fail I restart... eh it's almost 2 hours of thrall farming i lose, nah.".

I genuinely don't mind the time and work, but it feels like grinding out the lich is its own game where the only tangential thing i get to do is kuva siphons and the relics around them and nightwave. Worst of all, you only lose by not engaging with them since any mission on controlled planets taxes you while you didn't progress whatsoever.

Edit: the last 2 liches ive done took 3-4 hours each. Overall not bad at all in my opinion. Once i learned i can get 2 murmurs and bruteforce the third things went smooth sailing. However, that was still me doing EXCLUSIVELY lich hunting still. I went and got 2 kavats infected but when i realized i have to get 10 more genetic codes to make the new kavat i put it aside because once again, liches are still a dedicated effort. Im not even asking to make it as effective to farm them passively, i dont care if it takes longer passively, I just want to do other stuff without worrying i wont be getting my lich done.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Annnoth

[Oreades]

9 minutes ago, RyanCooper101 said:

Give us the Option to NOT make a Larvaling into a Lich:
Idea:
- Kill the Larvaling with the Parazon = No lich, you instead get like 100-200 kuva
- Kill the Larvaling with Anything else = Chance for Kuva Lich (current system)

I'd say the opposite since it's far more likely for someone to inadvertently kill a Larvaling with anything else than with a Parazon. 

So I'd say "killing" the Larvaling should result in it going down like a Thrall, opening it up to a finisher for a time and IF the player opts to execute that finisher it turns the Larvaling into a Litch otherwise you just get some bonus Kuvas. 

[Keogu]

Hello! 

I personally really like the Kuva Lich System. My first Lich set the standards pretty high in regards to personality and mission difficulty. 

One thing that I've noticed with my second Lich however, is the Requiem Murmur mechanic. 

After the first encounter with my second Lich, I was able to get it down to it's 3rd health bar by pure luck. I was pretty stoked about this, and I was honestly hoping that the Profile menu would show the once unknown requiem circles with the requiems I successfully discovered. However, they still remained in the ''unknown'' state. 

I brushed it off and I continued to run the Lich sector missions. I completed a full circle of the first requiem murmur, only to discover that the requiem mod I discovered was...The first mod I'd already been using. 

Just a suggestion, but maybe include the discovered requiem mod requirements into the menu once they've been chanced upon by players without the Requiem murmur, and instead of revealing the first mod by the murmur (if they've already discovered it works), maybe reveal the 2nd or 3rd mod (if they've gotten that far by luck). 

I feel it would save a lot of time grinding the Murmur only to discover what you already knew.  

Just a suggestion 🙂

[RyanCooper101]

1 minute ago, Oreades said:

I'd say the opposite since it's far more likely for someone to inadvertently kill a Larvaling with anything else than with a Parazon. 

So I'd say "killing" the Larvaling should result in it going down like a Thrall, opening it up to a finisher for a time and IF the player opts to execute that finisher it turns the Larvaling into a Litch otherwise you just get some bonus Kuvas. 

As long as we have "A" option. That's all we would really need

[Devz1]

This update just kills my motivation. The Kuva Lich system is just a 10-mile high grind-wall that not even Jon Snow would climb. 

RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG.

Please for the love of god tone it down.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

For those grind apologists, how is this reasonable ?

Let's see , 13 different weapons *5 formas = 65 Formas required to get all the mastery you can get from the new guns (which cost 20 plat and/or take 24 hours to build). Keep in mind curently, on PS4, only 5.6% of players that have played warframe ever used a forma... Now you're asking your fanbase to use 65 of them !!! Very reasonable.

It also means you need to level those weapons 13* six times (once to lvl 30 , then five more times for each forma), so basically 78 times to get the mastery rank...Cause there's nothing quite as fun as re-leveing the same weapons 78 times. Again , using trophy data again . only 5% of the fanbase ever leveled a forma-ed item to max level on PS4... Yet you're asking your fanbase to do so 78 times.

So add the time it takes to kill the worm, make the lich, farm the relics when there's only one kuva flood once in a blue moon, farm the void traces to refine the relics, run the relics and pray RNJesus gives you the mods you need to kill the lich , then kill 150+ of the lich's troops to get the murmurs, then kill the guy and get your weapon ,wich you then need to level up six times using formas that take 24 hours to make, then you repeat the process 13 times... Oh wait, since there's no way to choose which weapon you get when you make a lich , it could in theory take from 13 to like 45+ times on average to get all different guns if RNG keeps getting you the same duplicate guns. Imagine when you have 12/13 guns and you keep getting one of the 12 duplicates over and over, wasting mods and having to do the whole process again and again just to get rid of those unwanted Lichs. Imagine when you have wasted time putting 5 formas on your Kuva Braak , only to get a better rolled one down the road.

This is unacceptable. Franlky , there's farming, and there's FARMING. This is a sick joke. An insult. We wanted Sustainable content, not bare-bone, ridiculous no-life grind nobody in their right mind would attempt to do. Sorry , but I'm out till you guys fix this. This is one hamster wheel / skinner box that's just too ridiculous even for a no-life MR27 that did all the rest of the long grinds over the years.

Edited November 3, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[DOOMPATRIOT]

Im ok with the Kuva leech system, pretty fresh, I am kinda cool with the grind ( It isn't called farming simulator for no- reason) , my problem is that this is a braindead easy game, not challenging in anyway, I think you (DE) have to make enemies 2.0, yall have been dodging this since this community isn't that smart (and let's face it you also took advantage of this), you have gone away with this for far too long, just rework the enemies, you know killing braindead enemies isn't fun (at least not for the long run), and if a game can't be fun then what is the point of playing it.

Also get rid of the Relic Requium Package , I don't think you actually think this that well, and I am gonna let It slide, but just get rid of this, a really weird microtransation.

[Joltyboi]

On 2019-10-31 at 10:09 PM, Feuershark said:

could you make the Parazon tied to Warframe in the Fashion department ? I want the Parazon to match the Warframe's color

unless you mean something different, you already can colour the parazon

[_Illindi_]

Why do you need to have a freaking electrical discharge as soon as you start a hack? It is supposed to be a stealthy thing and instead you are standing there like a willing electrocution dummy zapping away, loudly. Thought I was being attacked the first time this happened. 

[SableSonata]

Putting aside bugs, which will presumably be fixed in the future...

 

Melee:

Good overall. Heavy attacks have the same problem as charge attacks did though: they're far too slow. Plus now they consume your combo counter. Not worth using.

 

Parazon:

Neutral. It serves its purpose, and some animations get pretty janky, but hopefully that gets sorted out like the Exploiter Orb cutscenes did. Hacking feels better, and the executions are cool (even though you'll only ever see them on Kuva Thralls since the health threshold seems to be "a stiff breeze away from death".

 

Liches:

Hopefully we see more voices in the future, and they can get pretty un-fun depending on your warframe, but that's more a chronic warframe-balance issue than the liches specifically.

Them killing you instantly after a failed parazon attack should be changed though; have them gloat and then leave, or retreat after being wounded (depending on if you failed on the first mod or not). Wasting one of the player's revives is just kinda annoying, and doesn't really add anything to the experience, especially when they only have a 1 in 336 chance of getting it right the first time. They should also not power up from failed parazon attempts. Only killing the player without the player making an attempt to use the parazon should power them up.

 

Kuva Weapons:

So far I've got a Kuva Kohm, Kuva Ogris, and a pair of Kuva Tonkors, and none of them are really doing much for me. Also, I was under the impression that Kuva weapons had randomized stats, and I'd believe it because despite the description for the Kuva Tonkor saying it has a faster reload than the regular, mine don't, and the Kuva Ogris says it has higher per-shot damage, but mine is significantly lower. 

However, my two Kuva Tonkors (3rd Lich already with a duplicate, btw) are identical aside from name, so obviously they can't be very random. A little disappointing; I was hoping to see significantly different weapons from their standard variants.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I'm quitting the game until and unless the random magnitude of the elemental bonus on lich weapons is standardized. I'm not making a hyperbolic statement, and this isn't a threat. I'm just done. I despise this kind of "content" and I'm not engaging with grinding out multiples of the weapons I want, with the element I want, just to try and get a better roll on the damage bonus. Rivens were almost my limit, but I stuck it out. I can't do that this time. If this is the kind of game you want to make then it's very clear you are no longer interested in making a game I want to play. I'm going to go play some other games. I'll check patch notes here for a while until I lose hope. Thanks for all the good times, DE. I hope you decide this was a mistake and decide to go in a different direction, but if not I'll always remember how great this game was before this.

Would have been nice to see how Grendel played though.

Peace out.

[(XBOX)dude1286]

So DE, when is Warframe Classic coming out. You keep adding grind upon grind and are ignoring your veterans. If you told us everything about the Kuva Liches before release like the IPS changes that were supposed to come with Khora, the community would have told you the entire system was terrible before it was released.

Also, the melee changes have completely turned the rest of my friends away from the game as it was the most satisfying part of the game.

[Zyneris]

Spawning liches in the survival missions isn't feasible at this point.
The spawns are FAR too low to try and maintain life support and take on your lich without any kind of loot assist.
Up the spawns or stop them spawn in survival.

[Alextirun]

requiem relics are too rare ,we need more ways to get them or higher chance to earn from kuva siphen mission.

those requiem mods are consumables, the ways to gain requiem relics should be rebalanced.

if this mades the riven pieces too easy to gain. It should be the gold level prize. the WEAPON EXILUS DESIGNATIONs only worth 75,000 credits ,it shouldn't be the gold level

[Flameghost]

1 час назад, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra сказал:

For those grind apologists, how is this reasonable ?

Let's see , 13 different weapons *5 formas = 65 Formas required to get all the mastery you can get from the new guns (which cost 20 plat and/or take 24 hours to build). Keep in mind curently, on PS4, only 5.6% of players that have played warframe ever used a forma... Now you're asking your fanbase to use 65 of them !!! Very reasonable.

It also means you need to level those weapons 13* six times (once to lvl 30 , then five more times for each forma), so basically 78 times to get the mastery rank...Cause there's nothing quite as fun as re-leveing the same weapons 78 times. Again , using trophy data again . only 5% of the fanbase ever leveled a forma-ed item to max level on PS4... Yet you're asking your fanbase to do so 78 times.

So add the time it takes to kill the worm, make the lich, farm the relics when there's only one kuva flood once in a blue moon, farm the void traces to refine the relics, run the relics and pray RNJesus gives you the mods you need to kill the lich , then kill 150+ of the lich's troops to get the murmurs, then kill the guy and get your weapon ,wich you then need to level up six times using formas that take 24 hours to make, then you repeat the process 13 times... Oh wait, since there's no way to choose which weapon you get when you make a lich , it could in theory take from 13 to like 45+ times on average to get all different guns if RNG keeps getting you the same duplicate guns. Imagine when you have 12/13 guns and you keep getting one of the 12 duplicates over and over, wasting mods and having to do the whole process again and again just to get rid of those unwanted Lichs. Imagine when you have wasted time putting 5 formas on your Kuva Braak , only to get a better rolled one down the road.

This is unacceptable. Franlky , there's farming, and there's FARMING. This is a sick joke. An insult. We wanted Sustainable content, not bare-bone, ridiculous no-life grind nobody in their right mind would attempt to do. Sorry , but I'm out till you guys fix this. This is one hamster wheel / skinner box that's just too ridiculous even for a no-life MR27 that did all the rest of the long grinds over the years.

Finally someone with a brain to do some basic maths, because it seems like DE haven't done any. This update is one of the most moronic/absurd update not only in Warframe history, but i can fairly say in the entire history of computer games. The ammount of grind and rng layers is just beyond any limits. It's beyong this universe. Whoever implemented this should be fired. I know DE likes to force people play their game, raising average online time and milking them for money, but with this update they pushed WAY too far with this crap. As you said, even complete nolifers who play 24/7/365 with 5k+ hours game time are shocked. And they are like <1% of playerbase. Other 99% (once they realize the ammount of grind DE just implemented) will be fainted. You don't want your major playerbase to leave the game, don't you devs? Because, you know, they bring you money for living after all. You'd better overlook what you just did with Old Blood, as well as your entire grind/forced content policy. Before it's too late.

[Klokwerkaos]

I've been thinking on this a bit.

I don't mind that kuva liches can steal sortie rewards and requiem relics and all kinds of stuff that is high value.  that's well and good.

What I do mind is that they steal your sortie rewards and then don't give them back when they kill you.

that means my time is wasted doing those three missions and i will never get it back... by design.

this makes me feel massively disrespected as a player, because my time is disrespected.  I played, I earned a reward, i was cheated out of it, on purpose, by the dev team explicitly and intentionally.

all of this means that unless this is fixed, once I farm these weapons with the correct frames to get the correct elemental bonus, I will cease to participate in the system entirely by not killing the maggots because I stand to lose by playing it, so there goes all replayability.  this will be another dead piece of content in short order once people farm it up, mark my words.

at no point will this be an acceptable course of action.  if I lose some creds and resources, I can handle that, but not the high value stuff, that's just rude, and it was designed this way intentionally and that's not cool.

 

[ScottDaniels]

I'm already annoyed with the lich stealing loot from missions.

Takes over like 5 planets, I do some of the missions to reduce it and it takes over another planet.

I feel like I'm being forced to do the lich grind when I really dont want to focus on it.

Makes not want to play.

[Joltyboi]

The content is great, the problem is RNG. As it is now, its RNG upon RNG upon RNG for the kuva liches, everything else about the gameplay is fun except the RNG, this much RNG is not fun, it needs to change.

I'm gonna focus on lich stuff since thats the thing I've played the most out of this update. The requiem relics NEED to be more accessible, someone else could probably think of something better but for me I would be fine with regular kuva missions having a 100% chance to give a requiem relic and kuva floods giving a radiant relic, again, someone could probably think of a better system but this is the best, most reasonable thing I've got, plus with them being so "difficult" to get given how kuva siphon missions disappear after completing them, having them (and the mods they have inside them) available to buy in the store, even if it IS a one time thing, is bad. (Note: normal relics are fine because they're so easy to get, its like a weapon, you CAN buy it if you want, but its just as easy to earn it in game, its the best form of "its optional" there is for a free to play game.)

As for the parazon lich mods, (sorry, cant remember their names) having this RNG being on top of the RNG of getting the requiem relics is bad, this update only came out a few days ago and I haven't even killed my first lich yet because all this RNG on top of RNG just makes me decide to stop playing for a while so I don't burn myself out already. I cant really see anything being done about how you acquire these mods so once again it goes back to making the requiem relics more accessible.

The last thing I'm gonna mention is the stat rolls on the kuva weapons, ignoring the possibility that ALL (or at least, all stats mentioned in a kuva weapons description) are random, this one isn't so bad, this is more a suggestion to improve on the stat rolls than anything else, as it works right now killing a larva with a specific warframe gives a specific stat bonus onto a weapon, I killed my first larva with Wukong, I got a 45% impact bonus on my liches kuva Kohm, but the percentage is still random, so I'm gonna suggest the same thing Brozime did in his video talking about the update, make it so the initial % bonus is random, but make it so whenever a lich levels up the bonus increases. Its RNG initially, but you can improve it afterwards before acquiring the weapon.

Like I said I'm enjoying the lich content, but it needs improvements and to get rid of the unnecessary RNG behind it, not ALL the RNG, but the parts that just dont need to be there.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Joltyboi
spelling

[SnowWarFr]

9 hours ago, Desdemona-XI said:

there are parazon mods that do that, but they are rare drops from bosses, so we have to farm our butts off to get that mechanic, theres a health one, an energy one and an ammo one. but because triggering them is so unreliable I'd say that its not really a functional feature now

Hence, they should make them functional. At the moment, I'm not feeling the Parazon without the Kuva Liches. I don't think I will, even with them.

[Dr.Evergreen]

1. Getting murmur is too much grindy. seriously, just simplify it. one mission for one requiem is enough i think.

2. It is very frustrating that we have to suicide multiple times to find out what requiem mod is valid or not. it is nonsense that even we collect all 3 requiem infomations, still there is another RNG to find out its sequence.

3. Also there is no 'release Lich' or 'just get Kuva weapon and flee'. If new Kuva Lich brings the weapon I don't wanted, I MUST waste toooo much time and precious requiem mods. this is literally demotivating.

4. A Kuva siphon should guarantee a requiem relic, and a Kuva flood should guarantee 2. and Kuva Lich SHOULD NOT STEAL those relics.

5. Kuva Ogris' crit rate is just underwhelming. In my opinion, Kuva Ogris should have 25% or more base crit and 2.2x~2.4x crit damage, to compensate its nerfed base damage. frankly I think its base damage, too, should be tied with its original version. for now it has smaller clips and weaker damage. even original Ogris isn't that much strong DE.

6. Lich should not steal rare items like Ephemeras, rare blueprints, riven mods.

7. Make requiem mod reusable by spending some endo or kuva or riven silver, or whatever we can easily get. I'm sick of those RNGs.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Dr.Evergreen

[Flameghost]

В 01.11.2019 в 19:01, AEP8FlyBoy сказал:

The RNG involved with Liches is far too heavy for it to be in any way engaging in the long term, especially if it stays this way.

1. Spawned Lich Weapons are Random
2. Bonus Kuva Weapon stats are Random
3. Requiem Mods have 3 uses (Seriously, who thought this was a good idea?)
4. RNG for earning specific Requiem Relics from Kuva Missions
5. RNG for earning the correct Requiem mod from those Relics
6. Grinding for Void traces to upgrade said Relics
7. Hunting for 15-20+ missions downing Thralls to figure out which Mods you need to use
8. Attempting to use said mods in random orders of three on the Lich

(Rinse and Repeat)

9. Kuva weapons drops randomly from Lich (1/13 chance for getting the one you need)

10. Void traces ammount from fissures is random

11. Void traces only drop from void fissures which are random mission type, often very inconvenient

12. You need to farm relics which are random rewards from missions (or spend syndicate rep for random packs) in order to even get to void fissures in the first place

13. Kuva Lich spawn chance during mission is random

14. If you are in the party with other players who have their own Lich, it's even more random

15. Lich takes random items from you during mission, including relics (both regular and requiem)

16. 13x5=65 formas (which are random reward or buy it with platinum) to max out MR fodder weapons

I guess you can continue this list on your own. Pathetic RNG fest from DE.

[...L.u.n.a...]

I got Kraken, Kraken, Seer, Arch weapon, Arch weapon

As you can see main problem is weapons are repeating! That doubles/triples the grind.

[kuryux]

Showing the amount of each requiem mod that we have on reward screen is a MUST.

[Jessadactyl]

I think the biggest issue is not getting the proper requiem combination on the first kill is too punishing.

 

It might not be so bad, if the Liches could not steal the relics required to get said mods. As it stands, them being able to steal requiem relics can soft lock you out of being able to kill them entirely. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Bearadactyl-Prime
Grammar