(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

[DeeDeetheSpy]

The Lich mechanic right now is crazy high grind with WAY too much RNG. 

Make the kuva weapons a set elemental ammount instead of random

Some preference to weapons I haven't already acquired would be super sweet given the amount of time investment to get one.

Less data packs needed to be gathered the better. I am a big person about 3's I love 3's. The rule of cool runs on 3's. 3 each mod is a good number. 3.

Mercy openings are far too easy to miss or enemies die too quick unless they are heavily armored tanks at level 100+

Would love some way to trigger a mercy instead of RNG. This would be a great option for Baruuk with the Cobra & Crian. Right now that sleep ability is ass. I rather it be like blocking damage with the shield builds up the shield block miter that adds 25% chance to open up enemy to mercy on next heavy attack

Enemies in mercy mode I would like to see them do something like, flash white, go invulnible for 2 seconds, and then I can choose to X or E them. E is a kill, X is an actual mercy and they will support me for 15 seconds before running off.

[More-L]

I think requiem mods should not have charges that cause the 'mod' to be consumed after too many uses.

A much better way to use them should be that that are permanent and infinite once acquired, but you have a way to "activate" them which will give a player bonus rewards upon defeating a lich with the activated mods. Perhaps the only way to return your lost resources would be when your mods are activated, this would give players a choice if they lost good/bad rewards to reclaim them or sacrifice them for the sake of efficiency. As an extra safety step, all "stockpiled" resources/items from past kuva lich's could be reclaimed by sacrificing 3 activated requiem mods in some interface (such as a special cache that they drop. Sort of like a lootbox but only with your missing items)

With this system, if you accidentally forgot to activate a mod (as you would need all 3 activated) when "killing" the lich (even with the right combo) you would get some kind of warning or forgo the kill and let them escape. Like a 3rd option on the convert/kill screen that allows you to let them leave, potentially upgrading them but specifically not causing a player to get killed/downed.

I think the best way to do this would be "equipping" one of them (like a dragon key) then completing a requiem fissure mission OR consuming any radiant requiem relic to activate any of the mods. Multiple copies of the mods could still be obtained to allow a stockpile of activated mods.

[Meesha_Eko]

I don't really have my own suggestions (especially since so much already posted in the thread), but I would like to point out parts of update I'd like to be changed and suggestions I've seen around that I like the most.

Lich hunt opt-in

I really would like a way to opt-in to lich hunt. As it is now, once you've engaged it pretty much severely limits activities available to you in game due to stealing. Your only reasonable option is to postpone other activities until you've dealt with lich. I mean, it would be extremely frustrating to farm, for example,  new prime, when lich would constantly steal your relics, traces and prime parts. I am fine with stealing during the lich hunt though, even of valuable stuff, except, of cource, relics and traces :).

Already suggested solution that I like: larvling does not become lich on simple kill, he instead becomes downed and you have an option to make him a lich through killing with parazon, thus starting a lich hunt, or just leave him be - in that case he should count as dead for all other purposes, i.e. mission objective.

I also like the planned changed: liches not stealing requiem relics and giving murmurs on failed attempt.

Lich hunt economy

Traces could use some tweaking now that they're getting another use. I'd suggest:
- Higher tier fissure missions should give more traces.
- Traces you get from others selecting your reward should scale with your relic refinement level.

Flood missions should probably give radiant relics or relics with some level of refinement (a chance to get flawless, exceptional or radiant, but guarnteed one of those). Normal siphons should have 100% chance to drop intact.

Lich hunt ending

Kuva Weapons as of now are high on RNG, with randomnes of weapon type and elemental bonus. As time goes you'll end up getting a lich with weapon you already have and with higher bonus. 

I like siggestions:
- Larvling carries a weapon that gives a hint to the weapon lich would have. This combined with a way to opt-in (described earlier) gives player more control.
- A way to combine two similar weapons to increase elemental bonus (with some cap of course). If combined weapons had different elemental type, resulting weapon gets one of the types (randomly or the one with higher elemental bonus).

Offtopic: Ephemeras

I'll mention it here since liches now have ephemeras too.

- Ephemeras often tend to end up on the extreeme end of the spectum between barely noticable (earlier ones) and obnoctiously in your face (some of the newer ones). Could they be balanced a bit? Please buff poor blazing, seeding and shocking steps. I'd say the prime access one needs toning down, kuva electrik one feels like it could induce seizures and infested one is just super unpleasant to look at while being the most popular due to accessabilit. But thats probably unrealistic to fix :) I just wish these things would be considered when creating new ephemeras.

- I really wish that ephemeras were achievment based and not rng.  Achievment based rewards is something Warframe lacks and ephemeras could be perfect for it. But sadly its probably too late for that.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Meesha_Eko
phrasing

[LazyBunnyKiera]

DE, you gotta give us a way to OPT in and out of the kuva lich system. Even if it means we have to do a single lich first to get that option.
Like after the first Lich, we have to do a specific mission in order to get another larvling.
You have to make murmurs faster, much faster. Survival missions are great for getting the murmurs, but they're only 5 minutes. Make them work like normal survivals where we can stay as long as we want or are able to, so that we can get the murmurs quicker. And make murmurs from other missions reward considerably more.

And you HAVE to give us a way to kill a lich without getting the kuva weapon or letting it join, if we decide we don't like what it has to offer. What if, on the slim chance, a person gets the same kuva weapon 4 times in a row? Make it so we can use the first kuva weapon, or kuva lich, to kill other kuva liches, if we don't like their offerings.

Spoiler

If we can kill a Kuva Queen, we should be able to kill a Lich without too much trouble.

As it sits, with 4,144 hours in game... This lich system is making me no longer want to play. I've been cool and supportive of everything else. I've gotten over all the nerfs, i'm even cool with the catchmoon thing. Because i have alternatives to the catchmoon, i have alternatives to my favorite weapons that may have been nerfed to the junk pile. But i don't have an alternative to this level of gameplay overhaul.

I'm trying to do kuva missions to get requiem relics to get the parazon mods to defeat my lich, but no one at DE thought that maybe it'd be a good idea to blacklist the requiem relics from the Lich's tax list. That's just insult to injury.


This is the update that breaks(ruins) warframe for a lot of players.

Edited November 5, 2019 by LazyBunnyKiera

[MPonder]

14 Kuva lich kills:

https://i.imgur.com/bldUcaK.png

Here's my feedback on some changes:

It takes around 3 hours to kills a kuva lich, so people crying about the grind (when they are always defending this in the game like a cultist) makes no sense to me. But the thing is, it is a pretty boring 3 hours.

1- Improve the AI of the lich

• Make them target the players, not their Kavats or specters.
• They are pretty brain-dead sometimes, they don't shot, they seems to be trying to aim at you and at something else pretty fast at the same time.
• Get rid of the channeling spell that lock them in place and make them more like "World of fire".
• Make them charge at the player, grab them, but also, give a little time for players to react, dunno. Do something, it is a boring fight in the end.

2- Make the Lich encounter more frequently by reducing the amount of "annoying" bar you lose after you fail the combination in the first levels of the lich (this would lower grind too a little)

3- Don't let people "Inaros" the content. I'm mean face tank all the content. Make the lichs have some damage answer to these type of players. But I have to say that the Lich with tonkor was too burst, by this I mean it was oneshotting my Saryn as soon as it spawn, leaving me with no time to react, I had to change to  Chroma/Wisp to fight that after it leveled up.

4- About the parazon requiem mods:

• Let people have a choice to transmute 4 mods with no charge.
• Increase chance of getting a relic at normal kuva missions to at least 50%.

5- The Thralls are the only thing that I liked and make you be more carefully during the missions, since they are a treat (since I wasn't Inarosing the content). Again, give this Thralls a meaning to deal with people Inarosing them, and also some means for them to retaliate people meleeing them to death.

6- About Weapons RNG, you need a fail safe for that in some way. A lot of people will get the weapons, yeah, but there will be a good amount that won't even after a lot of attempts. Also, make some way to improve your weapon stats if you are not lucky when generating the kuva lich (gilding in some NPC???).

And here are something that I'd like to not be done for these crye babies, cultist, always defending DE, because after so many time people complaing about this brain-dead grind and they always defending, now they are crying about it:
 

1. Don't let people "run" from the lich fight, by adding something that let you just kill the lich or bypass it in anyway.
2. Don't increase murmurs in any way. If you want to discover fast the combination, fight the lich.
3. Don't let weapons be tradable. I'd love to make some plat on it, but then I think the amount of time it takes to get a weapon and the RNG to get a weapons and the RNG to get good stats %, and I think I won't put time on this even if I could get some PL, because the Time Spend - PL reward won't be good, and people will use this just to bypass the system like Eidolons. It is so sad that there is only one content in the game that you have to do some research to do it efficiently and most people don't do it, because lazy is too big.

Edited November 5, 2019 by MPonder

[Asealiea]

Went to do a hijack to clear the node from the lich, all the enemies ended up shotting through the gates that the core has to stop at, ended up failing because they actually managed to kill it from the other side of the gate 😞 .

[Sahysa]

Lich feedback

 

My initial impression of lich mechanics is disappointment because I don’t feel like there has been a “power inversion.”

This is because the player has entirely too much control over the lich’s life cycle.  In classic Grineer low-IQ blundering, it is we who farm them. My normal game play day does not go into “Normal Grinner non-sortie non-fissure non-kuva siphon missions” unless it is for nightwave.  I have to go out of my way, for multiple missions, to even create them. Even if one is created by accident, you can isolate it to one node where it will be nothing more than an annoying taunt on login.  Can we turn them off?  

Fluff wise, I wonder why the Grineer couldn’t just create immortals on their own without needing us to kill it the first time, or perhaps that's what thralls are.  That they are dependent on our action to exist and grow (our actions being an interesting discussion in the context of the void) really undercuts the threat they should pose.  I thought it was going to feel different.

 

Gameplay wise, I’ve killed one and I’m already over it.  Everyone loves kill animations but needing to go through over 50 of them, with the same weapon, per lich?  The system to create them requires milking missions I have no other purpose to do. To make matters worse, even though you can farm thralls in a friend’s mission, if you aren't trying to drive up your Lich’s annoyance, you are wasting time and feel punished for playing with your friends unless they happen to be operating in the same place.

 

I thought the thralls were going to be mini bosses that actually would require some attention to get the info out of.  Instead, they require you to divert attention from the fact you’ll have to kill them 50thralls x 3murmors x 13liches = 1950 times. Although for most people, you’ll need to go through over 20 liches so it adds up fast.  The vanilla starmap is just being used as a backdrop for a mob grind. I don’t like this because it is not only encouraging speedrunning, but also because we can’t even do endless versions of these nodes. Timed “alert mode” endless missions do not count.  Heck, I want to have thralls and liches in my endless void fissures. Make them a credible threat. (I know there are likely some technical limitations here, but I have to make the suggestion.)

 

The system to prepare to kill them (Requiem mod farm) requires resources I normally saved for Baro.  The system to find out how to kill them requires grinding missions I have no other purpose to do. I already dislike grinding single purpose missions, now there is a map of them.  It wasn’t enough to have 3 layers of RNG in lich destruction, DE had another one in lich creation with variable weapon statistics. I’m disappointed by this because it wasn’t enough to have the weapon be random, the weapon’s quality needed to be random.  How many different permutations did we really need here? I suppose I should be thankful element isn’t random.

 

Does DE really need this much time to finish railjack?

 

What is the reasoning behind level 40 Kuva weapons?  [Spoiler Sword] is special because of how it is acquired, crafted and has a unique passive.  Kuva weapons were created by/for a special edition clone infused with kuva so it could survive a near death experience with a tenno.  What is the rationale here? Prime weapons aren't even that special. Do we need to get umbra weapons now? I mean, I get it: DE must be pissed that a lot the weapons they release are put on a benchmark, found wanting and never absorb any forma.  But, we went from 1 of these weapons to 14. It deserved better.  

 

I’m not mad, I’m disappointed.  

Fortuna was so well tuned with the amount of grind needed.  I bought things I wouldn’t normally buy because I was happy with the way things were going.  For this to require so much uncompelling grind while having open ended results is frustrating.  Warframe was distinguishing itself just fine without randomized stats on randomized weapons. The game was completable.  Having that mechanic on Rivens was safe. The fact they could not be chain farmed kept them special. The ability to trade them kept them accessible. The ability to roll them kept them relevant. The kuva weapon generation only fills me with discouragement, something I thought the game could never do.  If you didn’t want us to blow through all the liches in two weeks, put a cool down on their creation, not make it take solid hours cause some people have that much time anyway.

 

We have had bigger grinds in this game but not knowing where the end of the tunnel is has been more discouraging than I expected.

 

TL;DR Requests

Allow Ordis to filter out lich taunts we have heard before.

Do not completely reset lich spawn chance on “rank up.”

Do not use “normal” missions to generate the initiation event for future content (unless it's EVERY mission).

Allow any mission to be invaded by a larvling.  

Allow everyone's lich to gain annoyance and possibly spawn in any thrall mission, assuming that system stays as is.  

We need new ways to grind murmurs.  (I hear the lich spawning will help, but it's still the same Shoot and Shank procedure)

Consider normalizing the elemental bonus to some nominal value to remove the variance in exchange for a cooldown on lich creation or some other governor on acquisition or restriction.  The weapons were too many steps too fast.

Or give us a mechanic to upgrade or reroll the weapon: maybe by taunting or interacting with the lich getting them to upgrade it, or destroying it so they have to craft another.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Sahysa

[80think08]

-Unlocking the 3 murmurs takes too long regarding repetiveness.

-There is also a logistical problem in which you often unlock twice the same information because of the occasional Lich encounters on your many runs unlocking the murmurs. This is obviously somewhat inevitable but feels -because of the heavy grind- very unrewarding and not fun.

-Unlocking a murmur in-mission wont count any further killed Thralls to the next murmur, which makes this run up from this point meaningless to you and thus unrewarding and less fun.

-The grind behind getting the necessary mods to kill the Kuva Lich is far too great. 

I believe however that neither the reward pool nor the rarity in the droptable are the main problems but rather the accessiblity to get these relics.

My suggestion would be to make the relic-droprate for any Kuva siphon mission be guaranteed, where the chance to get a rarer one is higher for flood mission.
 Replacing the V relics with all the axi/neo/meso you get as a reward in all the nodes in the Kuva fortress would increase the accessibility aswell and adjust the variety to farm these relics.

 

 

[b4timert]

Someone in my clan got 3 of the same weapon in a row.

If have killed 4 liches and my 5th was was a repeat weapon. I have tried brute forcing it funny enough my luck at guessing is horrible 8 tries for 1 stone and 7 for the 2nd one.

The grind would not have been nearly as bad if i didn't have to try and kill them taking 1-6 hours (if you have the mods) just to roll a slotmasjien just to get a bad roll on my weapon or a repeat weapon or no ephemera.

My rolls is as follow 25%,25%,26%,31%,53%. worse part is the spread is also so big its 25%-85% as far as im aware. it makes farming liches feel even worse.

i have a 25% tonker my 2nd one is better at 31% knowing.Now i have to choose take the 31% for a mere 6% bonus damage or on convert fully aware that i might get a better one later that will upset me even more.The current system also motivate taking bad rolled weapons since you dont know how long it will take to get the weapon again since it takes so long just to get one. The spread should be smaller something like 30-50% so i know i got something useless instead of garbage when you low roll.i also think it's more likely to low roll since most people in my clan has weapon in the range of 25-40.  just imagine how bad it must make someone feel spending 5 forma on X then getting a better version of it a few days later.

Fortuna and POE personally didn't feel nearly as bad. They might have been more grindy but atleast I had more fun doing that grind compared to this one.

Edit:someone said the base damage is also RNG if that is true its even worse you can't even see the stat on the weapon and have to kill them to see if it got good base stats

Edited November 5, 2019 by b4timert

[Kaotyke]

There should be a way to counter the Lich if you get a combination wrong.

Just going straight to having my back broken and having to use a revive doesnt seem right.

[Lakyus]

I like the Kuva Liches, but I'm deeply disappointed with their weapons. I'll be short with my desperate attempt to change them before time passes even more.

• The damage % must be fixed. No RNG. It's awful. Rivens already have that sort of RNG, the weapons should be lifted from that.
• If you WANT TO randomize something, randomize the weapon bonus damage type instead. I'm completely fine with having this type of RNG than the current.
• Their names. It feels like a meme. Can't you just call it Kuva <Weapon> and put a memo on its description about the Kuva Lich that wielded it?

That's all. I love the system, I feel that the grind for murmurs is a bit too much, but the biggest concern for me right now is the RNG on weapons.

As always, thanks DE. You are all wonderful.

[Harachteh]

Applying forma to non-perfect kuva weapons feels bad. Getting perfect kuva weapons is almost impossible. You will have to settle if you want the mastery. 

The innate weapon damage RNG in combination with the long time it takes to get the weapons is frustrating.

How about the innate weapon bonus rising with each forma applied until it's at the maximum? So even if it's a bad roll you won't have to discard it. And investing forma won't feel like a waste.

For those who arent aware, kuva weapons work like the Paracesis, gaining 2 additional max ranks per forma capping at rank 40.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Harachteh

[PsyduckScience]

After just defeating my first Lich, here's my feedback.

(1). I created my Lich BEFORE I had any requiem mods. While looking at reddit I saw multiple posts showing requiem relics getting pinched. I never had this happen to me because I cleared out planets before attempting to start a Kuva Flood cuz I didn't want to waste my time on a flood, just for the reward (which didnt always drop ( which I hope they rush out a bugfix for)) to get pinched and locked away behind defeating the lich, which needed the relics etc.etc

I found farming for my requiem mods extremely tedious, going from floods (i didnt bother with siphons, 30% droprate no thanks) to normal void relics to farm traces to rad my relic then radsharing to get my desired mod, all between clearing out planets and murmur farming to know what mods to target.

(2). There is no incentive to facing a Lich prematurely when murmur farming. In fact, just clearing out influence and/or murmur farming ultimately punishes the player when the Lich spawns becuase their choices are: get KO'd by the Lich and lvl it up (gaining more territory and making the relics harder to farm cuz yoink) or leave it alone and ignore it. Most do the latter; I certainly did. Currently the best method for dealing with the Lich is to ignore it until all the murmurs are discovered, then only facing the lich to figure out the order. If the intention is for the Lich to gain levels throughout it's lifetime as your nemesis then it has been poorly implemented; there is no reason for the player to allow this to happen and the only way to avoid this penalty is to ignore it at all costs. 

My suggestion ties into the next point:

(3). RNG based bonus weapon dmg is unacceptable. No other weapons in warframe, when acquired, has the potential to be better or worse than someone elses. When you finally get that tigris prime, your tigris prime starts out just as good as everyone elses. How strong it becomes relies purely on your ability to mod it effectively. Only rivens have the same randomness, but that is ok because you can reroll rivens. You cannot reroll the bonus dmg on your kuva weapon, only hope the next time you see it in rotation it will have better bonus stats. You can already influence WHAT TYPE of damage bonus you get, you should also be able to influence how much of a bonus it is.

Leveling up a Lich should increase the dmg bonus. This content is meant to be challenging, give us the incentive to embrace the higher difficulty of a LVL 5 Lich. This should solve points 2 and 3.

(4). Give us incentive to run Kuva Disruption. This shiny new game mode hardly competes with it's competitors, including both the Kuva and Neptune variant. We are already forced to run Kuva siphons and Floods to deal with the Lich, and Kuva survival commonly is used for the void missions. This is good, we should have incentives for farming Kuva from all three sources. Kuva disruptions however is left in the dust. I have seen Kuva rescue, survival and exterminate multiple times occupying the void fissure. Not once have I seen Kuva Disruption. Give priority to Kuva Survival + Disruption for hosting reqiuem void fissures so all three kuva mission types see the same amount of love OR also place requiem relics into kuva disruption.

(5). I'd like more ways to spend Kuva. I have Kuva spilling out of my ears. Rivens aren't my thing and there isn't much use for Kuva other than that. With Riven fragments as one of the drops from the relics, the impression i'm getting is that the current endgame for warframe is Rivens. Getting rivens, rerolling rivens with Kuva (which we have a new incentive to get thru our Lich hunting), and then using rivens against...? Endless endurance runs spring to mind except there's no real incentive to run those. You should be able to spend kuva on more than just rerolling rivens and the occasional crafting requirement. 

(6). The Lich thematic is underplayed. You only really kill it twice: once as a kuva larvling and then if you want it's weapons. Yet all it's voicelines speak as if we're killing them over and over again. It all falls flat. Instead of visiting the grineer chiropractors when failing the reqiuem mod sequence, have the lich straight up die, then come back and taunt us. I heard you tried having this earlier in development where the Lich leveled up this way but scrapped it for one reason or another. I.M.O this better plays into the Lich theme than the current execution.

I think the Old Blood update is a great idea, but just needs a few tweaks. I think the grind was fine, since I don't consider the Lichs's as something to farm, but rather the weapons as a bonus to gradually unlock. The rate of acquiring murmurs matches the rate of clearing the Lich influence, since I consider this new system to be like a war between powerful warlords. It's a war of attrition; it's not supposed to be won in a day.

Thx DE

PS. Also pls put out a quick bugfix for the relics not always dropping on floods pls and thx

[LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R]

so , how to start this funny think....

ok we have a kuva lich that steal our reward , and this is , let's say fine, then we have relic to farm to kill the lich, and the fun part is that the lich steal the relic we have to farm to kill him...

 

[Vahenir]

So my own two cents on this after playing with the update:

The parazon is nice, no major complaints or anything about it. It could use more mods but I'm sure that will be added in time. The mercy kills on normal enemies are basically useless as the enemies dies too fast. They need a short invulnerability window if the mercy option pops up before they drop dead once it expires.

 

The liches are a huge pain in their current state. The murmur grind is waaaaay too long and should be reduced by at least 50%. Starting a lich should as others have suggested require the larva to be killed with the parazon to make it a more clear choice to start one rather than having one spawn in and dying in the crossfire.

The liches should also not autokill you for attempting to stab them, instead they should actually get killed and come back stronger next time. Dying to them should /not/ level them up because it probably means they are starting to go out of your league anyway. Dying to them repeatedly should probably cause their level to drop eventually as well, mainly to prevent cases where they level up too much so that a player cant really defeat it, say they are getting overconfident or something. On top of that i think that clearing a node of their influence should stop them from stealing things on that specific node, even if they control other parts of the same planet.

The specific lich mission nodes should have some kind of enhanced rewards for completing them, such as requiem relics, mods or kuva for instance. The liches should also be unable to steal the requiem stuff completely as you need it to defeat them. I don't really mind them stealing anything else however as long as they don't level up too much as to leave them unbeatable by some and/or take forever to bring down due to the massive grind.

[Nichivo]

The majority of people I have spoken with have been having issues with game freeze upon Kuva Lich coming to a players aid. Even worse it seems to also cause host migrations, and even game crashes. It's only going to get worse as more people, convert or vanquish Lich. Also currently even vanquished Lich are coming to the aid of players.

I myself have experienced the freeze which varies in time,  well as one crash, and 4 host migrations, during a Lich intervention on behalf of a player.😟

[TenStorms]

I want my Kuva Lich as Floof for my Orbiter....

[Raikh]

While I like the ide aof the KUva Lich system, in practice it features more issues than things it has going for them.

Praise RNGsus as the Liches are his disciples. Don't stack so many layers of rng.
Relics droppign aside from 1 flood per hour is rng (1). The relic you get is rng (2). The relic drops are as usual rng (3). Requiem for the Lich is rng (4). The weapon the lich has is rng (5). The element is determine b ythe warframe progenitor so thats fine, but the amount of element the weapon has is rng (6). We have SIX layers of rng in the system. Thats just way too much and it gets worse and worse and worse from a gameplay quality standpoint the more you play the Liches.

The grind is excessive.
You have to do Siphons/floods, thne crakc relics, then hunt your lich killing their thralls while either eventually after 150 thralls getting the requiem mods known and only needing to figure out the order or trying to bruteforce it in the mean time. Then you have no guarantee that the reward is one of the weapons you want and have to repeat the process for no one know how logn,e specially since you also want a high elemental roll as its base dmg being multplied by mods which makes it incredibly improtant to the wepaons strength.

Weren't the Liches meant to be difficult?
I remember Steve saying on the stream before the patch release that Liches are most difficult challenge coming to WF yet and the patch notes even state to bring your bets gear. Yet here I am forma-ing and relevelling my melee weapons on my Lich hunt and the only thing thats remotely stopping me is the degnerate status immunity Thralls and the Lich have but since they can't hurt a tanky frame it doesn't even matter if I have to wail on them for a while, its just sleep inducing.
The status immunity is just a cheap trick and spits on all weapons that rely on it while crit weapons jsut do what they always do. IT doesn't make them hard or challenging it just cuts down on the weapon pool that properly work against them.
The Liches barely fight back and the only time you really are dying to them is when you don't have the right requiem and they instagib you.

Surely players accidentally triggeirng their Lich way too early just past TWW are going to have serious issues but thats a lack of equipment available, not because they are truly challenging. We are also past the point where lv100 enemies are challenging or special to veterans. It is slightly more enjoyable to fight lv100 enemies from mission start instead of the usual starchart levels but those enemies are just not difficult. Weare way past that point by now and the only tihng notable is that Warframes without damage reduction abilities are super squishy against those enemies while any warframe with such an ability can just sit there and yawn at the damage which jsut cuts down (again) onthe pool of Warframes that can run those missions well.

Lastly Kuva Lich interaction is bad.
They aren't even real Liches. You don't kill them and tehy keep comign back until you find the right requiem. They simply don't die at all until you have it and you are punished for trying by having an inevitable death when missing the right requiem mods. Their territory missions are separated formt he normal missions and have absolutely no rewards. All the time you sit in them does nothing for you tillt he Lich is dead but not only does it take quite a lot of time, but you are also not even fighitng the lich most of the time making it slightly more glorified normal missions jsut without any reward tables. Given that we already have to famr and crack relics it seems overkill to also have non-rewarding missions tog rind to get one rng wepaon at the end. The relic famr is made somewhat palatable as you get Kuva on the side but the actual territory missions are just boring and unrewarding and don't convey an epic hunt and battle against your lich to any degree.

P.S.
Please remove the amber ayatan star from the relics. Th epeople who need those stars are not the oens running those missions. its almost credit cache level insulting to have this pop up. Similarly the adapter blueprint doesn't feel like the rare shiny you want but a rare deplete. The crafting costs are again a total tunr-off to consider those as desirable drops.
Kuva and Riven Sliver seem fine as it fits well with the whole Kuva setting and is an infinitely desirable resource. Amount of Kuva is a tad low though.

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Raikh

[AeinzPrime]

NOPE, just nope, i know you want to stretch the playtime, but this is too much grind + RNG
-each lich need 3 random requiem mod

-each requiem mod in random order

-each requiem mod have 3 charge, if it run out, back to the grind, and hope RNG god will love you

-to get requiem mod, you need requiem relic(the S#&amp;&#036;tiest system in this game), which have useless loot beside the requiem- mod 

-there are 4 type of requiem relic, drop RANDOMLY from kuva syphon(30% drop rate) and flood(1 or 2 per day), which mean you grind a "while" to get the relic you want.
And then the Lich weapon duplicate, 5 liches in the round with the same weapon, like what the hell, it not easy to get a new Lich right away

[Circle_of_Psi]

The Main Feedback for the Parazon I have right at this moment:

• Remove The Hacking Min-Game OR Have Parazon Auto-Hack 100% 
• Mercy Hostiles, need to be Immune To Damage, Unless you Mercy Kill (They die on their own after 5-10 Secs if not)
• Mercy Kills have a special proc and not just RNG based. (Mark for Mercy?)

Main Feedback for Lich:

• Remove "Stealing" from Core Items (Relics/Creds/Endo) or outright remove fully
• Lich vanishes if not killed after a short time
• Only one Lich can appear at a time
• Lich Nodes reduced in level a tat-bit
• Lich can only take over one planet at a time
• Grant players an Opt-Out Choice or "Breathing Period" (This can be done a few ways: A: Lich-Hosts can only be Mercy Killed In Order To Birth Them AND/OR Spawn on Kuva Missions Only/In Kuva Tile-set) (THIS WAS ADDED :D)
• Remove Trial and Error Modset-up, once we got the Mods/Mesmer fully unlocked, it gives us the Order
• Outright remove RNG/RNG/RNG on top of RNG (Like, Really DE?, Farm/Steal-RNG/RNG Mods/RNG Lich/RNG Weapons/ RNG Trial & Error/RNG Kuva, Etc, you get the idea)

 

Overall the Lich system is amazing on paper, a poor mans attempt to get people to Play Warframe, Over, lets say D2 (or any other game)

Edited November 5, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi
Added more details

[Costanzafaust]

Being able to spend Kuva to re-roll your lich or its weapon, or to improve the 'random' value of an acquired kuva weapon, would be nice.

Also, please replace ayatan stars with void trace bundles in those requiem relics.

[JohhnyBravos]

I think 

1) Leeches should spawn more offten, or there should be an option to call them (beacon in requiem relict and remove ayatan star), to easier try new cofigurations of mods.

2) There should be an opition donate contracts to clan (like it was planned), but let's say max 3 per week to clan pool (or when sameone takes yours contracts), to not spam unwanted contracts with weak bonuses (farming godlike weapons).

3) Remove timer to "/untstock"

Edited November 5, 2019 by JohhnyBravos

[Xolgys]

personally i find the lich system quite good right now. but when players find out a requiem mod by actually trying it out on the lich i think it should grand murmur for the next and also if a murmur gets revealed in a mission the excess charges should drag over to the next requiem reveal. that could already improve the grind.

people farm kuva for rivens anyway so they would get T5 relics on top naturally. aiming for them because someone already has too much kuva (lol) might be a different story though...that might look like a lot of grind but personally...i have grown grind lazy and even i got all of them very fast. got one twice ? trade it...not too big of a deal...many have excess ones they dont need right now and want to trade...

i also think the kuva weapon balance and math needs to be checked, especially the balance/numbers on kuva ogris. in my opinion its way too weak and a downgrade compared to regular ogris and generally the math behind weapons with an innate element like blast seems strange, maybe even bugged:

from what i can tell the random innate element reduces the "base" element blast because the IPS numbers are more or less the same as shown, but the blast part is much less on every weapon ive gotten so far in the favor of the RNG element, which summed up exceeds the shown base blast a bit in total. personally a feel like it should be more transparent on how that math actually works because right now its a bit confusing. on IPS-only weapons like the shieldeg or kohm the RNG element works as intended and that should be the same on the ones with an innate element, blast on tonkor for example. if that made the weapons too powerful, maybe reduce that innate blast a bit to actually make sense but dont keep that strange math ingame. i did my fair share of thinking about it and compared them and checked what other ppl got because initially it made no sense to me but i dont think thats a good thing and also not too logical. i actually want to understand the numbers on such weapons with partially RNG stats but if that makes only roughly sense how to know if u actually got something nice or a bad roll ? if we have such an RNG system at least make it logical and transparent, assuming that the math is not bugged right now.

again, lastly, i would like to emphasize that kuva ogris needs a buff. if the base blast amount is supposed to be 727 instead of 427 and the 4 was actually a typo because someone accidentally pressed 4 instead of 7 on the num block then i could understand the numbers on it, but if this was intentionally then i kindly request to compare this with base ogris, which has a base of 750 blast damage.

the semi auto doesnt matter too much, -max magazine means more reloading and less sustained dps, more status chance is nice but considering it also has a lower riven dispo despite already being worse than base ogris with its much less base damage i dont really see the improvement and value to actually farm it. an innate element wont make the weapon any better like this...more corr procc priority or scaling for gas...or innate radiation itself wont be enough to have all of its downsides for basically just a split damage base and semi auto that only skips a minimal charge....

the other weapons with an innate element (blast/corr) dont make any more sense in terms of how the innate RNG element is calculated but at least kuva tonkor for example can actually be better than base tonkor, even base dmg wise. the IPS-only weapons work as expected too, gaining the RNG element on top without sacrificing anything for it, so why are the others so confusing, in ogris's case on top of actually being a straight up downgrade ?

[Gloween]

Gibe me my KUVA CHAKKHURR pls.

 

Also chat isn't loading at all

[NalfenTG]

Feedback

Performance

I get 1-2 sec freezes or massive frame drops every time a lich spawns. (Please pre-cache this stuff so it does not happen during missions)

Warframes

Ember: Overall great and a fantastic rework. Her 1 feels lacking though.

Vauban: Great all around as well. Minor gripe i have is with his 2: It should be short press to throw grenade, long press to select another. Keep it consistent across all frames that share the same mechanics.

Grendel: The concept is good but implementation needs some work. His first ability should suck if you hold and throw enemies if you press it. NO reasons to have two abilities for the same move. Speaking of his 3, it needs to be reworked the damage is laughable. His 2 could use some better buff management and number tweaks. His 4 is somewhat clunky to control and could use some work as well.

Vaska Kavat

The new kavat is ok. I dont see it replacing Smeeta kavats buts that more of an issue on the effectiveness of companions as a whole than an issue with the Vaska itself. My only issue with it, is the same as all companions; their damage is laughable.

New Melee system

Some good and some bad here.

Lifting seems useless all around, the damage is nothing special and interacting with floating targets is clunky at best.

Heavy attacks: Needs a lot of work. Even when building for them they feel slow and  fail to really make an impact. Also having to use another key-bind for them is terrible. Just keep it to hold attack for a heavy attack (maybe block+attack for heavy slam while in mid air). Lastly the inability to perform a heavy attack without having to use a light attack first is very annoying.

Dedicated melee mode: Good but it should replace the fire gun key to melee instead of still using the quick melee key.

Weapons and stances: Needs work, the whole thing seems rushed and some weapons are really under performing.

Stances, the new combos are a step in the right direction; they are far easier to execute with consistency. The stances descriptions no longer match the combo's they perform. Forward combos need to be reviewed so they do not kill momentum with their animations. Some are working as intended others are a dead stop making them horrible to use.

Mods: At this point we are way overdue for a full mod review; we have a ton of mods that are downright useless, some are overpriced (others under-priced). Crit and status systems need to be looked at. The CO and BR mods nerfs were overdue but the new state they are in make them mandatory which is a design failure in my book.

Parazon

Parazon and requiem. The parazon is a good addition and a good place for all those "utility mods" nobody ever used. The requiem system is also fine in its implementation except for the acquisition part. Requiem mods should be rechargeable with kuva and kuva should be found in all relics. Change requiem relics into normal t5 relics and voila you have good integration with the core game.

Kuva siphon and flood, remove those as specific events and make them random spawns integrated into the core game (after war within) in any map. Scale the kuva amount with map level.

Kuva Lich

As an end game activity i like it, it is in a rough shape but with some work and better integration with the core game it could be a fun end game activity.
Thralls: Making them status immune is terrible, half the warframe arsenal relies on status effects. Making them resistant to certain things is fine but immune to all status just brings back memories of the Wolf of Saturn six which was a terrible design. Another issue seems to be with their scaling. If a normal enemy is a thrall all is fine but certain enemies like Bombards, Prosecutors and Nox scale so high that they make the lich feel like a joke compared to them. Beating on a nox for 5 minutes because you cannot armor strip is not a fun mechanic.

Kuva Larvling: This needs to be changed to only create a lich when killed by the parazon. This will prevent players that do not want to participate in Kuva liches an option to not do so. (also good for frames that kill offscreen.

Liches ranking up. Having to fail (and die) to level your lich is very unrewarding and discourages experimentation. The main issue is that higher level liches do not grant anything more than lower level ones while being significantly harder. This is a core issue with the game for many game modes. Difficulty should be always feel rewarding.

Kuva lich fights. Liches need to better stand out from normal enemies, they are often difficult to see as they are normal size and often dark colored on dark backgrounds. Add in teleporting and a ton of weapon/ability effects and the only way to track them is to mark them. Ideally liches should come with their own boss rooms but i doubt that's in the plans.

Status immunity needs to be addressed. I prefer the tone down approach, meaning they have greatly reduced status effects on them but they still work. The grab and back break/ throw feel cheap. I would much rather have the lich perform a damaging melee combo on me instead of a grab 1 shot.

Liches should leave after you put them in mercy mode and ignore them. Nothing more annoying than having to die to your lich to make it go away and it screws your whole team when someone wont die/execute theirs.

Kuva weapons need to accept mods that their non counterparts accept (ogris and nightwatch napalm for example). Kuva weapons also need some kind of trade in value for all the duplicates that this system will generate (kuva trade in was suggested and would be nice).

Ressource stealing: Personally i am fine with it and see no issues with the system (minus UI bugs). The suggestion that running spy missions could return some of the stolen loot is great and should be implemented.

Edited November 5, 2019 by NalfenTG