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[DE]Danielle

(PC) Kuva Liches / Parazon / Kuva Weapons / Etc. Feedback

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As an addendum to my previous suggestion, that the combined weapons increase elemental disposition in addition to carrying over forma/pex upgrades, what if we also took a maxed disposition weapon out of the spawn rotation?  Like say you get 5 seers, by combining them you wind up working up to a 60% or whatever max is seer.  From that point on, you have a 0% chance to spawn a lich with a seer.  In terms of lore, maybe say the lich knows through kuva-magic of it's brethrens failure to off you with the seer, so they refuse to try again with a weapon that has proven a failure.

This would encourage people to keep playing even when they keep getting the same, because not only will it always make their existing one better (whether higher or lower % roll), but it also gives a finite amount of repetition where by completing the weapon you guarantee other drops

Edited by DesertEagle1280
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I would like to have a use for the defiled mods beyond just endo/credits. There are several options that we could use them for moving forward that would reduce the grind and feel it less of a pain when the mods go to waste.

1). We could use defiled mods to refile charges or create a refreshed requiem Mod

2). The defiled mods can be used on the Kuva Liches to help reveal the combo order. This could be done in two ways: The defiled mods can't Kill the lich thus doesn't rank it up, but helps you find the order. The defiled mods help you find which requiem mods are needed but not the order and doesn't kill the lich

As it is now defiled mods are junk to be thrown away making it more of a pain because it expands on the waste the mod system feels like right now. Being able to recycle defiled mods for some sort of progression would be helpful in feeling that they have some use after being defiled.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Void blast with operator making Kuva Lich lose their bodies. Happens every time.Warframe2086.jpg

Can I get this as a shoulder armour piece?

This is known and will be fixed! (also lol)

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1 minute ago, [DE]Danielle said:

This is known and will be fixed! (also lol)

But can we get it as a trophy or something. Alt helmet? WARFRAME bowling? :3

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Why there is no ability to trade liches? Its really irriating when you spend all day grinding a lich with a trash orgis you don't want and then you recive a new lich...with same trash orgis you don't want, completly wasting your time and requiem mod charges!

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it should be possible to see how many requiem mods you have of a certain one when in fissure reward choice screen.

however, that charge idea is nice, but is more or less just confusing, why not simply one charge per mod and you get 3 mods as requiem relic reward per pick.

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Yes, we should be able to wear their face on our chest, shoulders and legs.

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Things I thought about after playing the Kuva lich system. I love it but it needs work and fleshing out.

-It would be nice to have the Kuva lich interact more during missions, so during a rescue there could be a 1% chance of them appearing as the target and then mocking you. Maybe if you are in a party the rest of the doors open up and reveal the party liches. Something along those lines.

-I want the option to rank the lich past 5 but I don't mind mission difficulty capped at level 100 for pubs, and higher challenge ratings for groups who choose to do missions at higher levels. To keep the community happy I feel like there has to be a balance between difficulty with the opt in for those who want it, and opt out for those who don't.

Why would I want higher ranks for a lich? It creates a great feeling of progression and consequences, but I also want it to be reflected in the lich we get, it would be nice to have them stronger, use abilities more frequently or have better skills for empyrean if they are in fact to be used in the crew system.

I thought of this because my first lich was a bonafide badass when I fought her, all 4 of us had a hard time bringing her down, even with weapons she was weak to, however it didn't transfer over when she became a support, it makes me regret turning her into a support because I gave up the possibility of a really good weapon for her.

-If we don't get an increase in rank up system there needs to be a way for them to grow, sending them on missions for you would be the obvious choice here, where they have their own ranks and specialization. You get a quirky stealth based lich? Send him on a spy mission he has a high% of success vs someone who has a quirk based around arson. 

This helps in the overall resource grind and it's something Ubisoft and EA have done for a long time sending out allies or things you have collected in the world to gather more things., I don't want this to be super time gated, but it adds to the immersion and having a few fluff blurbs can add more to the universe, maybe some missions will have a small chance of revealing new lore or have a few holes in them.

-i really hate the current parazon grind and I know the current direction of warframe is moving and I don't mind it if we are trying limited mods, but we need to up that mod use capacity, for 13 kuva weapons+ more future ones we need to see more uses of the mods, as Kuva lichs take a long time to grind and with their current functionality besides new weapons there has to be more of a gameplay reason for us to want to kill or capture them to offset the grind if it stays the same. It should feel more epic than it does for the time we put into it.

 

 

 

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There too much RNG in getting the requiem mods you need. you need to hope the right relic drops, then hope the right mod drops from that relic. Shouldn't it be easier to get the mods you need to kill your lich after spending so much time grinding out murmurs? 

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I'm enjoying the update a lot, the new weapons feel strong against normal enemies. I am confused about the ranking system for lich's though.


Leading up to the update it was said that you had to kill your lich in order for it to become stronger, leading up to the point where you get the right mod order to perma-kill it. On release, however, the actual gameplay is that the lich kills you to rank up. The voice acting work that pops up when they do, sounds like they were intended to be made to be killed. 

 

"Kill me as many times as you want" 

"Go ahead and destroy my organs, my body. I will keep coming back, you cannot kill me."

 

Except...we only kill him once; when we perma-kill him. It looks like we're not seeing something... Are we waiting for Empyrean for the full lich system to be released? The current system in place is; Lich spawns and lurks until they drop enough health where which ever player has to sacrifice themselves in order to proceed / have other players lich's spawn. It is quite frustrating when someone decides to not sacrifice themselves preventing everyone else from having access to their lich. The matter that they insta-kill us instead of us fighting/killing them to rank up doesn't seem right.

Could we have a timer on the actual lich spawn? So that if someone doesn't sacrifice themselves to their lich in time, they despawn/ are replaced with another? That could alleviate some frustrations that I've been encountering in game with other people. 

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EDIT: Let me rephrase what I wrote:

I was hoping that murmurs do not reveal the part of the puzzle that is already known by the player. What is the point of this anyway? You guessed one or two right and murmurs reveal one of them again possibly? There is no other point to this other than making the liches stay alive longer. I personally would rather kill more liches than hit my face into a wall few times by guessing wrong with a single one...

Edited by Renzo
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19 hours ago, SnowWarFr said:

I believe they used these animations because veterans were upset about the lack of punishment there is in the game. I am not sure if they tackled the problem correctly.

As it is right now dying from a Lich doesn't have any real consequences other than you having to push 'Revive' button, so no I don't think they did.

DE used the Lich's finisher animations to show that the Liches are unkillable no matter how many times you stab your Parazon into their gut and will keep killing you if you get the mods wrong, which doesn't really fit the whole 'Lich' definition. The idea of calling them a 'Lich' should be because of the fact we kill them over and over but they keep coming back. I figured it would make much more sense for DE to just use the Lich's finisher animations on their highest rank, as some sort of punishment for us failing to kill them properly in time. 

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Well... here i am... finally posting ACTUAL feedback.

My current experience with this update is... well... not a particularly good, this is caused by the (as have been pointed out by noumerus other individuals) GRIND, don't get me wron, i really like the lich system BUT it needs some SERIOUS changes.

1. Make the Requiem mods permanent, in order to (at least somewhat) justify the IMMENSE GRIND!

2. Decrease the amount of murmurs needed. (i was thinking maybe 25 for each mod to be revealed)

3. Make it so that we have an actual CHANCE of killing our lich before he/she reaches level 5, by... let's say removing: THE RANDOM COMBINATION OF MODS NEEDED TO KILL IT!

otherwise i think the update is pretty good... well... except for all the nerf's.

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I don't think this will be anything yet unsaid but I'd like to say it regardless.

At least once a day since the implementation of the lich system, I've seen people complain about being in a party where someone didn't want to kill their lich. I've been that person and in both positions. And make no mistake, I understand what's at stake. Another lich potentially won't be able to spawn until the one in play is dealt with.

But right now, I am not seeing so many positive reasons for group play when it comes to lich murmur hunting. And I hope that isn't the intention. The obvious rebuttal is: "Kill your lich and die you selfish ass." But is that what we want to foster in group play? We want people frustrated and upset at another player?

How about, knock them down once and ignore them, they disappear and the game moves on as always. Maybe the lich gets angrier but doesn't get stronger? Maybe you hit a different key to dismiss them, proving you've bettered them in the fight via a slap across the face anime style? If it's the latter where they still require player interaction, incentivize the dismissal so there's no good reason to ignore them. Make them drop kuva, maybe recover some of things they stole, or their dmg% on their weapon increases a variable amount.

The current system has the potential to brew unnecessary animosity. Please consider changing it so we can all go back to hating the same thing: RNG.

Thank you.

Edited by Detruncate
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I'm certainly no stranger to grinding in this game, and I'm sure all I could say about the Liches right now has already been said, so I'll cut right to my proposed solution.

Perhaps we can cut maybe just one layer off the RNG? Like, make Requiem Mods permanent? I just found out they were consumed after 3 uses and that was the last straw for me. That's just... Oof. That's too much. These middle-tier rewards in relics, so I'm already:

  1. Gambling that I'm even gonna find one, (I got 3 weapon exilus bps)
  2. Then it's gotta be the one that I want. (I got all the ones I don't need yet)
  3. Then I have to play codebreaker to find the sequence I actually equip them in to function (Still unlocking the 3rd requiem)
  4. Then they go away

I know I'm just a player, so what do I know about balance? But maybe? Please? Can I just... keep them, for my trouble? If you don't, well... I mean I'd rather farm Sabot Rounds or Augur Secrets to trade for kuva weapons, at that point. I actually enjoy those grinds.

Edited by Sefyra-Skye
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Please consider a ''hardcore" option for Kuva Lich:

Main complaint being the grind for Murmurs, this option let's veteran players earn Murmurs twice as fast (for the same amount of thralls) by completing missions that are twice the current level (I was thinking around level 150-200).

On top, the actual Lich could do more damage or something.

This may be the perfect opportunity to add better rewards, that veteran players can opt into, instead of compromizing difficulty with newer players, who need the easier Lich to start off.

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Could we have a lich station in the orbiter please? The integration into the codex is nice, but time consuming. Here's my suggested bit of game design. While we're already looking at this particular area which includes noggles. Can I float the idea of being able to turn our lichs into custom noggles? I would pay good plat for that.
sND3SKX.jpghttps://imgur.com/a/YaI7YTi
 

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I can't tell you how much fun it is to figure out a Word of Power before the Murmurs and then to have the Murmurs tell me that exact same thing. Why can't they only tell you Words you do not know about?

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Almost everything about liches was a source of frustration from the start:

- Was it supposed to be an endgame mechanic? If so, why then it makes you run the same vanilla missions you've been through thousands of times and without any integration with other activities? Why not spawn at least thralls in all types of the mission on the same lich-occupated node (sorties, syndicates, invasions, siphons, etc)? As it stands now, you run same old tedious missions with even less incentive than before because of resourse stealing. 

- Why resource stealing and then returning all the same after 5 layers of rng and hours of grind? And It lines up with the almost impossibility to kill lich without dying at least 4-5 times. These parts of lich mechanics look almost anti-gamish, like they're there only to annoy and humiliate you. It's not «adding more ways to play, more activities/possibilities», it looks almost like adding more bumps on the road (to mediocre reward). Isn't it kinda obvious that a) lich should return more than it took from you and b) that player generally should not kill himself willingly and without any alternatives just to make some progress in any activity? 

- Why all these layers of rng and grind? Some of it really needs to go. Requiem mods being not permanent is the first and obvious one. The whole cycle of kuva hunt can take 5-6-7+ hours and when you spawn a lich with the same gun that you don't need again and again it all comes down to: you see right at the start that it'll give you gun that you don't need it and you know, that you'll spend next 5+ hours just to get rid of this one and to roll a new lich with a possibly better gun. I just got my third lich wih a kuva archgun after a 5 hour grind and should i even say that it is the opposite of fun?

 

And please don't assume that i'm being totally downer here. I think melee changes are brilliant, and the aestethic part of liches is nice and cute, but mechanics and grind - like i said - frustration and annoyence -_-

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I'll start out with what I like about the liches:

1. The grind isn't something that can be done in 2 minutes - I keep seeing people in the community yelling about not having content, but now that we have something that's an actual time-consuming process they complain about it taking too long. I can understand the frustration of getting a lich with a weaker variant of what you already have, but we already know a system is being worked on to address this by giving the lich to another player in some fashion. Plus we know that another system is being made to use duplicates to upgrade. As it stands this is something that you actually have to work on instead of knocking out 10 liches in a day and then going back to complaining about having nothing to do.

2. Once upgraded, the liches are actually pretty challenging. Even if you work with their weaknesses, a rank 5 lich can be hard to kill solo. Of course there are ways around this, but I've died a number of times to just fighting liches--mine and others. I like that. There's something in the game that can finally make me use caution in a fight.

3. We can choose to kill or convert. I like this idea conceptually. There's still a lot that needs to be done to make converting more worthwhile than killing, but the concept itself is something I like.

4. Trial-and-error killing process. I like that the system strikes a balance between giving us directions and making us think. I don't want the game to hold my hand through everything, so I don't want the system to give us any hints about mod order as well as the mods themselves. To be honest I didn't even expect the game to flat out tell us what mods to use. I was hoping that--since each mod has a passage tied to it--we would only get a hint or a fragment of that passage and have to use that to determine the correct mod. 

Now for what I think should be changed/improved:

1. Liches should actually die. This has been stated a number of times elsewhere so I won't explain what exactly it means, but it's still something that I want to talk about. Maybe change the system so instead of the fight ending on an incorrect rune, the fight will continue as if it were correct and we can actually kill the lich, but--as the name would imply--they continue to taunt us because we haven't completely killed them. It could also be a % chance (either flat or varies with correct rune inputs) for the lich to kill us at the end instead of us killing them on a failed attempt.

2. Converted liches should be buffed. There are 2 parts to this that should be addressed:

  • First, they need to stay for longer. Instead of appearing for only a minute or 2, have them appear at the start of the mission and stay for all of it with an option to send them away if we don't want them there. Alternatively, give them a summoning beacon we can equip for us to call them when we want.
  • Second, they need more damage output. Each time a converted lich has spawned for me, they've struggled to kill a basic mob that was 20 levels below them. My preferred suggestion for this is to give us an option in their character menu to mod their weapons for them. They can use our mods (hopefully we can use them without needing to have duplicates) or they can have a new line of mods just for them. If they have their own mods then they can function like parazon mods where they have no ranks and no drain, and would need to be similar in strength to mods we have now. The second suggestion--which is likely far easier to accomplish--is to just buff their damage output to a level that's similar to our own damage output.

3. We should have more of a reason to rank them up. Right now the best reason to rank a lich up is to get murmurs faster so we can kill them faster. Instead, maybe make the weapon bonus increase with the lich's rank. Another thought is to auto-install a forma on the weapon for each lich rank so killing a level 5 lich would come with 5 random polarities and let us level the weapon to 40 right after claiming it.

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